Jump to content

Menu

NYT article on merit aid


Bostonian
 Share

Recommended Posts

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/07/08/education/edlife/8edlife_chart.html

Colleges and Universities That Award Merit Aid

(interactive table)

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/22/education/edlife/a-rise-in-students-receiving-merit-awards.html

Help for the Not So Needy

By CHRISTOPHER DREW

July 17, 2012

 

...

 

Consider this run-through of the federal financial-aid form: a family making $75,000 a year might have to pay about $10,000 a year toward the cost of college before qualifying for need-based aid. With income of $150,000, the expected family contribution is $35,000 to $40,000. Student loans loom.

 

“We certainly have found that with the recession in recent years, many middle-income families and even some higher-income families are looking for more aid,†says Earl D. Retif, vice president for enrollment management at Tulane University in New Orleans.

 

Rather than lose bright students to less-expensive public colleges, universities like Tulane offer sizable amounts of aid based mainly on academic promise.

 

While there are no national statistics post-recession, an Education Department study released last fall showed that the percentage of students receiving merit aid grew so rapidly from 1995 to 2008 that it rivaled the number of students receiving need-based aid.

 

Recent College Board data from more than 600 nonprofit colleges and universities show that some are giving fewer students more money or stretching their dollars by handing smaller amounts to more students. But others are expanding the number of recipients as well as the amount of their awards.

 

“Merit aid is one of the few bright lights in college financing now,†says Bonnie Kerrigan Snyder, a college counselor in Lancaster, Pa., whose new book is titled “The New College Reality: Make College Work for Your Career.†She describes how students are allowed to fall in love with a campus, and only later do parents figure out how they will pay for it, if they can. She advises putting financials in the forefront, sprinkling schools that offer generous merit aid on your college wish list. “Consider the schools that will want you,†she says. “That’s how you will uncover the best deals.â€

 

...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would like to see all college aid to be based on merit.

 

In a way, private college aid (that from the college itself) is more or less based upon merit since they feel if you qualified to get in, you're merit-worthy. Some of those then go further to decide whether or not an accepted student needs aid or not (need-based aid). Others stick with just awarding top applicants aid (merit based).

 

The Federal Gov't awards solely need-based aid, but most of that comes in loans and/or work study. A small amount for the lowest incomes is in the form of Pell Grants. Then it's up to the student to get accepted somewhere (and come up with the difference in the cost).

 

It's very, VERY rare for an underqualified student to get decent amounts of aid. Most, at best, can afford community college w/federal aid or need to have deep pockets (or take on oodles of loans with a co-signer, they can't do it on their own).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's very, VERY rare for an underqualified student to get decent amounts of aid.

 

I see students with abysmal grades getting scholarships renewed. Students who fail courses, even multiple times, still get money.

It is also common practice for failing students to withdraw from courses in order to fudge their GPA for scholarship renewal which really irritates me; students should not be rewarded for not finishing the work they started and should be judged on their performance up to that date.

 

And then I had the very sad situation of a highly gifted, absolutely stellar student, who had to leave the university because there was not enough merit aid available to compensate for the high out-of-state tuition... it made me so angry to see some of the students we keep around but that there was no way to help this kid.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I see students with abysmal grades getting scholarships renewed. Students who fail courses, even multiple times, still get money.

It is also common practice for failing students to withdraw from courses in order to fudge their GPA for scholarship renewal which really irritates me; students should not be rewarded for not finishing the work they started and should be judged on their performance up to that date.

 

And then I had the very sad situation of a highly gifted, absolutely stellar student, who had to leave the university because there was not enough merit aid available to compensate for the high out-of-state tuition... it made me so angry to see some of the students we keep around but that there was no way to help this kid.

 

Ok, I was talking about incoming freshmen. You're talking about ongoing students. They're two different categories.

 

Yes, schools like to keep ongoing students going because NOT doing so looks bad for their numbers. Therefore, they do what they can and overlook some things they probably shouldn't. In the second case, you're evidently in a public school. Pending which state one is in, legally there are issues with how much aid can be given due to the majority of states wanting to "assist" their taxpayer's kids and not those from out of state (who don't pay taxes supporting the school). Private schools generally do not work that way. Like you, I feel these aid awards should be changed and based solely upon performance once at school. I just didn't realize that's what you were talking about...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If a college is not listed on the NYT list, don't assume that it doesn't give merit aid. Neither college that our kids have attended / will attend are on the list, but they are both very generous with aid. (And one is a USNWR top-20 LAC where ~10% of entering freshman receive a full-ride, but it still didn't make the NYT list!)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are right.

As an instructor, I do not see what happens prior to admission; I just see what happens with the ongoing students.

Sorry.

 

Absolutely no apologies necessary! It's just good to clear it up for others who may be reading. I often see the high school ---> college aid, so that's just where my brain was when I wrote what I did. You see the ongoing aid...

 

IMO it's a GOOD thing when different perspectives show up! It just helps to explain the differences. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If a college is not listed on the NYT list, don't assume that it doesn't give merit aid. Neither college that our kids have attended / will attend are on the list, but they are both very generous with aid. (And one is a USNWR top-20 LAC where ~10% of entering freshman receive a full-ride, but it still didn't make the NYT list!)

 

:iagree: I wonder how they compiled that list? Oldest's very small school (Covenant) makes the list - and oldest has merit aid there in excess of the average - but middle son's Top 50 school (University of Rochester) does not make the list. Middle son has merit aid... I was curious to see how it "fit" with the average. Oh well. It's costing us less to send middle son to UR than oldest to Covenant, but some of that is need-based aid in both situations. (Some is still merit aid - not dependent upon our income.) UR is technically the more expensive school... just technically in our case!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To be the lone dissenter, I'm glad that aid is not just merit based. That's not to say that those who receive need based aid have the right to goof off and remain in school. But what about the artist who would never have been able to go to college if not for need based aid? Maybe his or her academics aren't up to the level required for merit based aid. Yes, there are some scholarships for artists, musicians, athletes, etc., but if higher education was limited to only those outstanding performers, or those excelling in academics, there would be many, many hard working students unable to afford college. The gap between the haves and the have nots has grown hugely, this would just add to that problem. All of this is JMO.

 

Just to be clear, neither do I think that all aid should be need based either. Merit aid is rightfully available for those students who qualify.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I remember I once watch I think frontline about indiana's 21st century fund. It is for poor people able to afford college. The standard GPA To get in the program is 2.5... Tell me u don't see a problem with this. If they want to be a college student, at least work for it

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not familiar with Indiana's program, but with the little you mentioned about it, I don't see a problem with that. What GPA do you suggest they must have to qualify? A 2.5 is a basically a C+ average. Is college only for the brilliant? I remember some B-/C+ students in high school who had to work hard for their grades. As we know, without higher education, a person is limited in their employment options. Is it better that those who can't afford college simply pursue careers requiring only a high school diploma? Anyway, just some thoughts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I remember some B-/C+ students in high school who had to work hard for their grades.

 

But are your experiences back in the days when a C was average as it was when I went to school? Or is it now when grade inflation and dumbed down classes are the norm?

 

I can't think of any C average students from my school who do all that well when they go to college unless their motivation changes. That usually changes because they've been out in the "real" world and decide to go back and get a degree. Then they start at community college (where they need to start - usually with remedial classes).

 

You had mentioned art, music, and sports... yes, there are special scholarships designed for those majors and they tend to be more forgiving on grades for academic subjects. Instead, they depend more upon portfolios, auditions, and playing ability.

 

When there is limited money, it works. I actually think it's best if those who can't/don't keep up in high school (for whatever reason) if they get some "world seasoning" before attempting college classes. If they can't keep up in high school, they won't in college (without a change in motivation). They won't have the needed foundation to keep up.

 

Scholarships - both merit and need-based - are essentially sponsorships of students. Would you prefer to sponsor someone likely to succeed or someone who might be better off on a different path? Most people tend to prefer the former.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

lived in Indiana more than 8 years... C is not average. B is average, at least that is in my school district that I heard.

 

This is another interesting topic. Is college for everyone... I personally don't think so, I don't understand why US education system is so one dimensional. In Taiwan, there are many "skill training" school. I will say only 50% chose/tested into college route. and to get in a college is whole other story.. That was one time anyway..

Edited by jennynd
Link to comment
Share on other sites

But are your experiences back in the days when a C was average as it was when I went to school? Or is it now when grade inflation and dumbed down classes are the norm?

 

I can't think of any C average students from my school who do all that well when they go to college unless their motivation changes. That usually changes because they've been out in the "real" world and decide to go back and get a degree. Then they start at community college (where they need to start - usually with remedial classes).

 

You had mentioned art, music, and sports... yes, there are special scholarships designed for those majors and they tend to be more forgiving on grades for academic subjects. Instead, they depend more upon portfolios, auditions, and playing ability.

 

When there is limited money, it works. I actually think it's best if those who can't/don't keep up in high school (for whatever reason) if they get some "world seasoning" before attempting college classes. If they can't keep up in high school, they won't in college (without a change in motivation). They won't have the needed foundation to keep up.

 

Scholarships - both merit and need-based - are essentially sponsorships of students. Would you prefer to sponsor someone likely to succeed or someone who might be better off on a different path? Most people tend to prefer the former.

 

Yes, I'm referring back to a time when grade inflation didn't exist, so a C was average. I know that's different now. That's an issue for the schools to address if they ever get the "guts" to do it. :tongue_smilie:

 

For the arts, music and athletics, it's only the top performers who are receiving scholarships. Plenty of others with great potential do not qualify for enough in scholarships. Some of them go onto college as their families can afford to send them. Some are not so fortunate.

 

I would prefer to see all those who are wanting to go to college, and willing to do the work, get the chance to further their education. If that means that some get aide who might not be the best and brightest of students, that's fine by me. If they don't put effort into their education, then they shouldn't be allowed to continue. It's the opportunity that should be offered, but what they do with that opportunity is up to them. Consequences should be clearly established so the students know that work will be required, or they'll need to find their own way. JMO.

 

If a school offers merit scholarship, then by all means all students should be able to compete for that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

lived in Indiana more than 8 years... C is not average. B is average, at least that is in my school district that I heard.

 

This is another interesting topic. Is college for everyone... I personally don't think so, I don't understand why US education system is so one dimensional. In Taiwan, there are many "skill training" school. I will say only 50% chose/tested into college route. and to get in a college is whole other story.. That was one time anyway..

 

The US is known as the Land of Opportunity for a reason. :001_smile: At one time a high school education was only for the wealthy. Thankfully that has changed. There nothing wrong with vocational training if that's what the student wants to do. But eliminating college as an option based on not being an absolute top student or for finances, is wrong IMO. Another thing to consider is that while vocational training is free when done during high school, it can be very expensive after graduation. Many of those who can't afford college can't afford these other schools either. If no aide is given, we end up with a large workforce of unskilled laborers. I don't think this is a better option.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would prefer to see all those who are wanting to go to college' date=' and willing to do the work, get the chance to further their education. If that means that some get aide who might not be the best and brightest of students, that's fine by me. If they don't put effort into their education, then they shouldn't be allowed to continue. It's the opportunity that should be offered, but what they do with that opportunity is up to them. [/quote']

 

I agree, but with the disclaimer: all who are willing and qualified.

I come from a society where attending university is free, but students must pass a college preparatory high school exam in order to be admitted. I do not think a student should be entitled to attend college if he is unprepared; this waters down the college education and robs the prepared students of the level of education they are seeking.

 

this said, however, as long as we are not in that happy state that anybody who is qualified and willing can go to college for free, and as long as limited financial resources are available to this, it makes sense to me to give it from the top and to send the ablest and most promising students first.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think there is a broad distance between only offering aid to the "absolute top student" and saying that college is the right of all students. (Not to put words into your mouth, but "college for all" is common rhetoric.)

 

What I have a hard time with is saying that students who have not put forth the effort in high school should have their college time underwritten (by college endowments, state funding (ie taxes) or the families who aren't getting tuition discounts). Do I think that they ought to end up as ditch diggers? Of course not. But I think that students who were not working hard in high school are unlikely to buckle down freshman year in college.

 

I have seen many young men and women who weren't much interested in education join the military and then learn how to manage their time and discipline themselves to doing hard things. They often go on to thrive in college.

 

I confess that this is a topic that I carry a lot of bitterness about. We will probably not be offered any need based aid, yet cannot pay full price tuition. I fully expect that my older two kids at least will be accepted at several colleges that we will have to say no to, because we cannot afford the tuition (and will not take out massive loans). Is that fair? I confess that I have no idea where fairness is on this subject.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The US is known as the Land of Opportunity for a reason. :001_smile: At one time a high school education was only for the wealthy. Thankfully that has changed. There nothing wrong with vocational training if that's what the student wants to do. But eliminating college as an option based on not being an absolute top student or for finances' date=' is wrong IMO. Another thing to consider is that while vocational training is free when done during high school, it can be very expensive after graduation. Many of those who can't afford college can't afford these other schools either. If no aide is given, we end up with a large workforce of unskilled laborers. I don't think this is a better option.[/quote']

Well, them the aide should be offered to those 2.5 GPA to vocational school, not college

college Opportunity for people who are willing to try and capable of doing that.not everybody can be Einstein even they try. And by allowing a 2.5 GPA goes to college, you gonna create a work force not qualify for the job and trying to do higher level work. For instance, I was in a military program designing aircraft, Will you like a 2.5 GPA apparently can't pass their school work to make your next airplane ride??

And who says those "skill training school" do not offer an oppurtunity? as a fact, it does just that. We need all kind of people in a society, just because I want be go to college so I can make more money does not qualify a person to go..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think there is a broad distance between only offering aid to the "absolute top student" and saying that college is the right of all students.

 

:iagree:

 

I agree with everything Sebastian wrote. This is a controversial discussion topic, but I do think that a college education is a privilege to be worked for and not a right of all (even the not-hardworking) students.

 

Not to throw gas on the flames, but some colleges provide a less-than-stellar education, and I for one don't want lots of taxpayer dollars providing poor educations to weak students. There must be a better way for young people to gain entry into the work force!

 

I know many homeschoolers who have not headed off to a 4-year college. While some are working at Starbucks, many have joined the military or are doing a combination of working part-time while trying to start their own business. I have been impressed at their entrepreneurial spirit! (Some are even fully supporting themselves through their businesses -- mostly computer-related in some way.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My profs did not dilute the courses..

 

That is the crucial point.

The problem with unprepared students is that course content will be watered down if there are enough of them, because the administration wants student retention. It is already visible. It is extremely difficult to keep standards up and not yield to the grade inflation pressure.

The strong students who come prepared are not getting their money's worth; we can not challenge them because we have to teach to the least common denominator. It is a problem with which all my colleagues wrestle, and not easy to solve as long as there are no decent standards for a high school education.

(Because of level of average student preparation, I can cover only about half or 2/3 as much material in my course as I had in the same kind of introductory course as a student myself.)

 

On a completely different note: you surely did not have a 2.5 GPA as a high school student, right? Even in a bad high school, the students who are most likely to succeed in college will be on top of the class.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How about offering honors courses?

 

Yes, that would be nice. Unfortunately, with instructor and room shortages there is no way we can muster the resources to offer this for the small number of students who would need the challenge.

I tried offering additional class time with more challenging material on a volunteer basis... with only one student to take me up on it, it was not a good investment of my extra time. Sad. It is the same situation I bemoaned when my kids were in public school. Dramatic increases in enrollment only exacerbate the problem.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The following from the article struck me:

 

"The University of Miami, however, awards merit scholarships averaging more than $23,000 a year to almost a quarter of its freshmen, while Tulane promises an average of more than $20,500 annually to a third of its new students. The University of Southern California offers 100 full-tuition scholarships, more than 200 half-tuition scholarships and more than 250 awards equal to one-quarter of its tuition to freshmen each year. The University of Chicago, which often competes with the Ivies for students, gives scholarships that average $10,600 to 16 percent of its freshmen.

 

Even public universities, despite state budget cuts, continue to offer merit aid to try to build an accomplished student body."

 

Those percentages seemed higher than I would have guessed for merit based aid.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To be the lone dissenter' date=' I'm glad that aid is not just merit based. That's not to say that those who receive need based aid have the right to goof off and remain in school. But what about the artist who would never have been able to go to college if not for need based aid? Maybe his or her academics aren't up to the level required for merit based aid. Yes, there are some scholarships for artists, musicians, athletes, etc., but if higher education was limited to only those outstanding performers, or those excelling in academics, there would be many, many hard working students unable to afford college. The gap between the haves and the have nots has grown hugely, this would just add to that problem. All of this is JMO.

 

Just to be clear, neither do I think that all aid should be need based either. Merit aid is rightfully available for those students who qualify.[/quote']

 

:iagree:

 

Having a deaf father and a hard-of-hearing mother who were functionally illiterate, I had a slim chance of getting a high GPA in high school.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My dd's school requires scholarship students to take at least 15 unique credit hours each semester and 30 unique credit hours each fall/spring and they have to maintain at least a 3.0 (for the semester and cumulative). If any one of these requirements isn't met, they have one semester to bring things back to where they should be. If they don't manage to meet the requirements, then the scholarship is canceled.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Merit aid is a very smart way to discount prices to make the highest profit. ANd yes, I know these colleges are all non profit but still they want to not be loosing money. So they raise their prices to astonishing rates but then discount a lot for a lot of students making the price economical or at least doable. Since my family has an income in the top 20% but cannot afford full price at these schools, I suspect the schools couldn't fill their spaces by insisting everyone pay full price. There is no way we could afford 50K a year. Unless someone has a much higher income than we do or a massive amount of savings that they intend to spend on college tuition, I think those prices are just like the full price air line tickets. Hardly anyone pays those.

Now those colleges with the great merit aid aren't usually the ones that take the C student.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

merit aid is becoming harder and harder to find.

 

There is actually more merit aid available now.

 

This is a fascinating article about trends in merit aid from 1995-1996 to 2007-2008.

 

http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2012/2012160.pdf

 

"The proportion of undergraduates receiving merit aid was larger in 2007–08 (14 percent) than in 1995–96 (6 percent); the average amount re-ceived was also larger in 2007–08 ($4,700) than in 1995–96 ($4,000) in constant 2007 dollars (figures 1 and 2). The proportion receiving need-based aid was larger in 2007–08 (37 percent) than in 1995–96 (32 percent), and the average amount differed by $400 between 2007–08 ($4,000) and 1995–96 ($3,600) in constant 2007 dollars"

 

Now, how all that compares with the increase in tuition I don't know!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is actually more merit aid available now.

 

This is a fascinating article about trends in merit aid from 1995-1996 to 2007-2008.

 

http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2012/2012160.pdf

 

 

While this is an interesting study, I really don't think it holds true now, post recession. Possibly there are more dollars available in merit aid, but my guess is that most awards are just a small percentage of the total college cots (< 25%).

 

My oldest was graduating high school in the midst of the financial bust ('2009). I think the colleges were still somewhat generous that year with merit aid because their budgets for that year had been set pre-recession.

 

However, since then, I've been watching college costs go up like crazy, while merit aid at the same schools has gone up only a little bit. When oldest was looking, the top schools were approaching $50k/yr, and now, only 4 - 5 years later, they are approaching $60k/yr. As far as I've been able to tell, merit scholarships at these places have only gone up $2k - 3K total during the same interval.

 

Merit money is definitely out there, but you have to look long and hard to get anything substantial unless your dc is brilliant & a superb test taker (top 1 - 2%), which most are not.

 

To answer Wildcat -- if you are paying full or close to full tuition to at least a somewhat selective university, I don't see that money supporting kids who slacked off, I see that it goes to kids who are very poor and couldn't attend otherwise, or to kids who increase the diversity of the school.

 

JM2Cents,

Brenda

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We aren't looking at selective.... just State Unis.

 

Maybe you should broaden your search a bit beyond the state universities. Some of the privates offer pretty good merit money. Their tuition tends to be a bit higher, but their scholarships are higher as well. It wouldn't hurt to find a few privates that have the major your child is interested in and add them to his list so he'll hopefully have more choices come spring.

 

Best of luck,

Brenda

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Our "reach" school is OOS and one of the other state schools is OOS, but is still a state school.

 

Our biggest problem is ds doesn't want to be too far away, so that narrows the possibilities. :glare::001_smile:

 

Just be aware that state schools that are out-of-state for your child are not likely to give merit aid. Some have reduced tuition deals for students from neighboring states, but there are usually specific requirements to get the discount, so it's best to investigate these in advance.

 

There are a few exceptions where state schools give aid/scholarships to OOS students, but usually most of the aid at state schools is reserved for residents. Most schools now have a net price calculator on their website, so you could check that out to get some idea of the cost.

 

Best wishes,

Brenda

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...