How much is too much?

[Halcyon]

Can we talk yet again about what is appropriate level/amount/number of hours chuldren should do seatwork daily?

 

As i plan my rising 5th grader's schedule for next year, i am still struggling with hiw much is too much, or how much is enough. I know "it depends" on the student, the curriculum, the teaching style.

 

But can we talk a bit about this subject agaian? Please share your opinion.

[*Lulu*]

*sigh*

 

I totally get it. I seem to circle around to this question every time I finish planning a portion of Punk's work for next year. Am I pushing too hard or not enough? Will he be forever scarred by my influence on his education or just by my general parenting? Will we ever finish our current Saxon book without a box of firecrackers lit under his seat? I just do not know.

 

Currently, when we are schooling full tilt, Punk spends 2 hours on seated work, 2 hours on group work/reading, 2-3 hours reading independently, and 1-2 hours on things that I consider edutainment. There are so many things I think we should be covering that we aren't and I do not see a way unless something is cut, but I feel like we are already only covering essentials.

 

I would love to hear what others are doing/have done at this stage because I am stumped.

[Halcyon]

Well, i think my thinking has been affected because i watched The War on Children on Netflix streaming tonight where a ps teacher says that lit analysis (written, where there are directed questions, etc) kills students' love of books :glare: and this came right after i spent a good portion of the day planning out lit studeis for next year...........:smash: i mean, what is overkill, what is really "needed"? Is this goi g to make him hate reading? And that led me to start pondering what is learning and what does it look like for our family, what do i want my child to get out of this homeschool experience, what kind of person do i want him to become, and how much down time does he need to follow his own daydreams and interests? As it stands, there wont be much time after school work is done.

[missmoe]

You know about the lit thing. I've found that as my kids mature and that logical part of their brains start to develop they really enjoy analyzing books. So yes, forcing kids to analyze every book (especially before they are ready for it---when comprehension is still being learned) would kill the love of books, analyzing at the appropriate time boast the enjoyment of books.

[GoVanGogh]

Same boat, same grade.

 

We (loosely) follow LCC and AO. I wish I was more strict about getting in our Latin, but it seems to be the subject I drop when I get stressed. :glare:

 

I feel like we have to do a min of 3.5 hours a day for it to be "school." I am pushing for 4 hrs, but I am the one that withers from too much school when we get around 4.5 hours.

 

Now that is "at home" school stuff - it may or may not include outside classes (depends on class/activity) and it does not include what my DS does on his own time. (He is an avid reader.) We do a lot of meetings and activities in the evening and on weekends that I count as school, but they are just "icing on the cake" and not part of official study time.

 

This past year I have pushed up our math to 45-60 min/day. I feel good about this change, as DS is finally building up speed. (I like the idea of short lessons, but we were not getting anywhere with math.) I generally break that time up, so we do math twice.

 

We focus quite a bit on the sciences and literature. (DS's passions.) We generally have two chapter books going for school at one time, along with a book of poetry.

 

I don't know if it is considered 'seat work' if we are reading and talking about books while flopped out on the couch or sunning ourselves in the driveway? :lol: But I go back and forth on what is too much or not enough. Today I feel good about our school progress so I would say between 3.5 and 4 hours is magical.

[Karen in CO]

I think there needs to be balance. It isn't just their education. It is their childhood. There needs to be time for free play, daydreams and imagination. I always reread this article when I'm thinking about schedules. I put those times at the top end of a range of times for school.

 

Last year for fifth grade, if you lump our subjects together we basically did one hour of writing, one hour of content reading, one hour of math, and one hour of music per day four days a week. On top of that, she had an 8 hour school day at a ps enrichment school, music lessons 2 hours a week, art lessons 2 hours a week, science class with a friend an hour each week, and judo 2 hours a week. I like to think of myself as relaxed, but she averaged a bit over 6 hours a day for work. Since we don't watch a lot of tv, that did leave a lot of time for other things including reading a lot of books of her choice.

 

I'd suggest that you add up all of things you are requiring for school or counting for school and see how many hours a week it really is. Until we look at it carefully, it is just feelings and not facts. With those facts, decide if your priorities are right and if you have left room for childhood.

[Jen500]

Well, i think my thinking has been affected because i watched The War on Children on Netflix streaming tonight where a ps teacher says that lit analysis (written, where there are directed questions, etc) kills students' love of books :glare: and this came right after i spent a good portion of the day planning out lit studeis for next year...........:smash: i mean, what is overkill, what is really "needed"? Is this goi g to make him hate reading? And that led me to start pondering what is learning and what does it look like for our family, what do i want my child to get out of this homeschool experience, what kind of person do i want him to become, and how much down time does he need to follow his own daydreams and interests? As it stands, there wont be much time after school work is done.

 

The part I bolded...it sounds like you are planning too much. I have read many of your posts Halcyon, and you are doing a great job with your kids. Keep doing that, but give them time and resources to follow their interests...as they get more towards high school I think it gets harder not spend a lot of time on 'school subjects'.

[Farrar]

Well, i think my thinking has been affected because i watched The War on Children on Netflix streaming tonight where a ps teacher says that lit analysis (written, where there are directed questions, etc) kills students' love of books :glare: and this came right after i spent a good portion of the day planning out lit studeis for next year...........

 

I think it's important to put that sentiment with some caveats... Lit. analysis kills reading for *some* children - especially when it's poorly done, flat questions and given to kids before they're ready for it.

 

I don't know what the right balance is... but I think as long as I'm always questioning whether I've found it and thinking of it as a balance, that I'm probably on the right track at least.

[cjgrubbs]

*sigh*

 

Currently, when we are schooling full tilt, Punk spends 2 hours on seated work, 2 hours on group work/reading, 2-3 hours reading independently, and 1-2 hours on things that I consider edutainment. There are so many things I think we should be covering that we aren't and I do not see a way unless something is cut, but I feel like we are already only covering essentials.

 

 

My rising 7th grader will work 4 - 4.5 hours in the mornings on school. After lunch we will spend another 1.5 hours. The afternoon activities will vary and will include art, science, nature study, etc. At night he will do his pleasure reading for around 1 hour.

 

My rising 4th grader will work 2-3 hours in the mornings on school though most of the morning will be structured and will include games and activities (which I don't count as school). He will also spend another 1.5 hours in the afternoon on school work. He will read for 30 minutes - 1 hour at night.

 

But we are probably not doing all we need to do either! I just can't seem to figure out how to get it all in and give them some freedom to be kids and pursue hobbies.:tongue_smilie:

[Karen in CO]

Well, i think my thinking has been affected because i watched The War on Children on Netflix streaming tonight where a ps teacher says that lit analysis (written, where there are directed questions, etc) kills students' love of books :glare: and this came right after i spent a good portion of the day planning out lit studeis for next year...........:smash: i mean, what is overkill, what is really "needed"? Is this goi g to make him hate reading? And that led me to start pondering what is learning and what does it look like for our family, what do i want my child to get out of this homeschool experience, what kind of person do i want him to become, and how much down time does he need to follow his own daydreams and interests? As it stands, there wont be much time after school work is done.

 

My dd agrees with this. We switched enrichment programs over lit studies. My dd LOVES books and loves talking about books. It took 3 lessons of a lit. study of The Secret Garden for her to want to never do lit. studies again. She declared that if she hadn't previously read and loved The Secret Garden, that she would have hated it after that class.

[GoVanGogh]

i mean, what is overkill, what is really "needed"? Is this goi g to make him hate reading? And that led me to start pondering what is learning and what does it look like for our family, what do i want my child to get out of this homeschool experience, what kind of person do i want him to become, and how much down time does he need to follow his own daydreams and interests? As it stands, there wont be much time after school work is done.

I totally understand this.

I have an only child. He can entertain himself for hours - reading, working on electronics projects, etc. I want him to have this time to be a kid and enjoy himself. Maybe if he wanted to only play video games or complained of being bored, I would feel differently. But as it is - I know he is doing a great job "unschooling" himself in the things he is passionate about. I think we have a good balance. I have his mornings and early afternoon... He has his afternoons.

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

Well, i think my thinking has been affected because i watched The War on Children on Netflix streaming tonight where a ps teacher says that lit analysis (written, where there are directed questions, etc) kills students' love of books :glare: and this came right after i spent a good portion of the day planning out lit studeis for next year...........:smash: i mean, what is overkill, what is really "needed"? Is this goi g to make him hate reading? And that led me to start pondering what is learning and what does it look like for our family, what do i want my child to get out of this homeschool experience, what kind of person do i want him to become, and how much down time does he need to follow his own daydreams and interests? As it stands, there wont be much time after school work is done.

 

 

 

I watched that and had a similar question about lit guides. Yes, I just ordered her lit guides before watching that! UGH. I have a post here about the lit portion if you are interested in it.

[kwickimom]

Was just pondering this the last few weeks and I have been reading a bunch of CM stuff and I decided to ditch CHOLL and I am thinking of ditching R&S5. I am thinking of just studying some literary terms and devices and doing notebooking or a few things I found on Pinterest. Then I will read ahead her booklist and highlight some things to discuss and we will not do every book.

 

I am also thinking of just doing a grammar review year and reading through Grammarland and doing some editing and proofreading and diagramming. My dd loves grammar and loves to diagram so I want to have some fun with it. We did R&S 3&4 and we will just jump in with 6 next year. Also she wants to do English from the Roots up so we can do that too.

 

I want to for sure make more time for art which she loves and for artist/composer/nature study.

 

I am combining dd 5th grade and ds 1st grade in History (SOTW together and then she will do HO- I lined them up) and we are going through BFSU 1 together too with lots of reading and projects.

 

I was all freaking out about having to buckle down and get serious this year and add in hours and I was dreading the year myself :) We will do about 4 hrs total

 

Math 45-60 mins 5x week

Reading from booklist 60 mins 5x week

History/Science 60 mins 5x week (rotate)

writing (R&S) 20 mins 4x week

spelling power 15 mins 4x week

lit study/grammar/English- 30 mins 4x week (rotate)

 

 

Thats about an hour a day on Math, LA, History or Science, and Reading. We will school about 40 to 42 weeks also.

 

Fridays-

Math

reading

copywork

geography

artist/composer/nature study

art

 

homeschool group

Edited July 14, 2012 by kwickimom
typo

[janie_ranae]

You know in school when the teacher encouraged us to ask a question because someone else probably has the same one...well, you asked my question for me - thanks!

 

Getting my soon to be gr5er's schedule down to a manageable time frame has taken me hours. Shave off a little time here, do that subject three days a week instead of five, etc. It was a little discouraging reading TWTM and their recommendations. For our family I feel putting in 4 1/2 hours of school a day is kind of the max right now. Sorry I'm no help, :001_huh: but I'd love to hear how others have made it work.:bigear: All the best with your scheduling and decision making!

[8filltheheart]

I'm not sure it is worth my effort responding, but here is our reality and my perspective.

 

I classify my kids grade-wise by their age regardless of what level of academics they are achieving. My dd that is a rising 5th grader will be 11 in Nov. She will spend no more than 5 to 5 1/2 hrs on school work/day. My rising 8th grader that is functioning on par w/most honors-oriented 10th graders will spend no more than 6-8 hrs/day. She is the age of an 8th grader, so I classify her as an 8th grader and only expect the daily "time" of an 8th grader. Only in high school would I let a student spend more than 6-8 hrs on school work.

 

My older kids have all excelled academically w/o hrs and hrs of academics during primary and elementary school. They have all enjoyed learning. Not one of the older 5 suffered from middle school mental fog but actually had huge mental growth spurts during the middle school yrs. The older ones have/had internal motivation during high school. (our Aspie......maybe not so much internally, but he was never resistant to academics and thrives in academic settings.) And they have even ended up academically accelerated w/o any effort to accelerate them. (no yr round schooling. No long days. Simply educating them on their level w/in the confines of their age developmentally.)

 

So, that is my btdt perspective and my going to do it over again one as well. No regrets here on letting childhood be childhood. There is nothing at the other end except for adult responsibilities which go on into perpetuity. I have no desire to race them there before they need to be.

Edited July 14, 2012 by 8FillTheHeart

[fourcatmom]

Totally posted in the wrong thread. I am so tired!

[janie_ranae]

Thanks for the reminder 8FilltheHeart! It's reassuring to hear a 'been there, done that' perspective.

[PeterPan]

The thing I like about the whole TIME discussion is that it forces me to *prune* my ideas. Sometimes we get a lot of chaff and stuff that *could* be done but doesn't *have* to be done. Sometimes we're spending a lot of time doing something young that could be done more quickly in a year or two. It really takes a lot of wisdom to narrow down our list from would COULD be done to what is the BEST use of the dc's time.

 

I also think it's easy to forget that the amounts of time for school we talk about here should INCLUDE reading time. Insane, eh? So if you want them to read 1-2 hours a day, then you go chop chop somewhere else, plain and simply. That's when you figure out there really was room to chop chop, that the child is maturing in spite of us not because of us, and that occasionally our job is to get out of the way. They definitely need that time for themselves.

 

I like grade plus 1 as a starting point. For me, even though my dd has some quirks, it has usually held up pretty well. But remember that includes a *generous* amount of reading each day.

[BakersDozen]

For next year my 5th/6th graders will have 5h45m of school (how's that for down to the minute? :tongue_smilie:). Broken down it looks like this:

 

Bible/Pathways/Spelling: 1 hour (I have them that long so they don't have to rush)

 

History/Literature: 1h45min (again, this is one of our favorite subjects so they get an extra long block of time)

 

Science: 1 hour (really need more time for this but alas, there are not enough minutes in the day)

 

Math: 1 hour

 

Grammar/Writing/Latin: 1 hour

 

That is our schedule M/T/Th/F. We're trying a co-op this year on W afternoons that will include world geography and writing. Wednesday mornings will be Health and something else fun...Art, maybe?

 

It's a full day but my rule is that school is done at 3:30, period. That leaves them almost 2 hours before dinner. They finish their work 99.9% of the time so there is no time taken for homework in the evening.

 

One thing I am allowing is for my dc to do their independent work later in the afternoon if they want to do something in the morning. For example, my 12yo loves going to the skate park with his scooter yet he has to go in the early morning (before 9am) to avoid the heat and the questionable kids who show up as the day wears on. ;) So he can use an hour or so of his morning at the park then make up the work later in the afternoon. It's all about flexibility, imo. :)

 

We have 1/2 hour each day where we all sit before lunch and we read. We read together, we read alone and we read aloud. We read through classics mostly - books they might not choose on their own. We still talked about the story and what was happening but we didn't kill it with what seemed like busy work.

Even my oldest dc will ask for a read-aloud story during lunchtime. It is my favorite time of day, hands down. They learn a lot, I get wonderful time with them, it's great. Lit analysis killed my love of reading in school so I am very careful what I do with my own dc in this area.

[BakersDozen]

The thing I like about the whole TIME discussion is that it forces me to *prune* my ideas. Sometimes we get a lot of chaff and stuff that *could* be done but doesn't *have* to be done. Sometimes we're spending a lot of time doing something young that could be done more quickly in a year or two. It really takes a lot of wisdom to narrow down our list from would COULD be done to what is the BEST use of the dc's time.

 

Ah...this is my stumbling block! In my pursuit of a well rounded education I find myself struggling with the "need" to do too much; overkill is my specialty. ;)

 

That's when you figure out there really was room to chop chop, that the child is maturing in spite of us not because of us, and that occasionally our job is to get out of the way. They definitely need that time for themselves.

 

Love this! Printing it out and putting it as the first page in my school planning notebook!

[Alte Veste Academy]

The way I look at it is by thinking about how much is typical seatwork vs how much is enjoyable to the point that they would do it regardless of whether or not it was considered school. How long should a kid be spending in a seat, pencil to paper or nose in a textbook or workbook? How many books should be read and analyzed vs read and plain ol' loved? In other words, for how much of their time should my kids be working as if they were in a regular classroom? Not much.

 

On the other hand, we do school for more hours than most people I know. We've been ramping up over the past couple of years and I find that everyone is happier--more satisfied, more fulfilled. What we are brewing up here is a lifestyle of learning every morning that almost flies completely under the radar because it is beloved: music appreciation in the morning while I cook and we eat breakfast; morning meeting with math drills, current events discussion, songs, recitation, etc.; conversational Spanish; creative writing (was a lot of the BW Lifestyle stuff and is now evolving into a writers' workshop); inquiry science with experiments, videos, and the promise of satisfying their own curiosity; history with the best books you could ever find, packed to the gills with fascinating facts and images; MCTLA and LoF while cuddling on the sofa; art projects that I get them started on and they finish up while I make lunch; and lunch and literature. In the afternoon, each child does seatwork, one-on-one with me, and we finish up with a poetry teatime. That is really a great deal of work for a child, but there is very little seatwork or drudgery.

 

How much is too much? I don't know. Are you having any fun? In my experience, everything seems to feel like too much when you're not having any fun. I get the feeling you mean nose to the grindstone work and not joyous work. Frankly, no one would be asking how much is too much when they are finding joy and fulfillment in the work and going about the day in blissful ease. :lol: So, if your true question is whether or not you are pushing too hard and if that is best for your child, I think you have to ask yourself some questions.

 

What is his attitude like? Is it improving or getting worse?

What is your relationship with him like? Is it getting closer or more distant?

What is his work ethic like? Is it getting stronger or weaker?

Does he enjoy the challenges you put before him more or less than in previous years?

Does he challenge himself (whether in school or in outside activities)?

When you select curricula and plan the schedule, are you factoring in his strengths and weaknesses, as viewed by him rather than through your own lens as mother/teacher?

How many choices do you give him?

Are you asking him his opinion, his goals, his wishes, his dreams?

 

I hear you asking what kind of person you want him to become. What kind of person does he want to become? You're right that he has to have time to dream about who he is going to become, who he wants to be. But that doesn't necessarily mean fewer hours doing schoolwork. It could simply mean having more control over his schoolwork and schedule. He can dream and learn at the same time. :tongue_smilie:

 

Let me be perfectly clear; I believe in kids doing hard work. In fact, the work should get harder and harder and harder and harder... Kids need to have the challenge of their load increased slowly but steadily. However challenging work does not have to be drudgery. Challenging work can be enjoyable. Literary analysis is a perfect example. Is all LA drudgery? Of course not. But if it's simply an additional item on a list of things for him to accomplish on any given day rather than an opportunity for discourse and contemplation with you or peers, that might be what it feels like to him. Ask him his opinion.

 

I've been in a place before where my planning was all "I" and "me" and what I want my kids' education to look like and what I wanted for them and me, me, me and I, I, I... For so long I was under the impression that I had to figure it out all by myself. (You could probably even find the thread here about it if you searched hard enough. :lol:) Once it occurred to me that their opinions matter as much as mine and--hold the phone!--that the whole point of this endeavor is to eventually have their opinion about their own lives matter more than mine, planning for them got much easier.

 

Of course, the usual caveats... None of this might apply to you at all... These are basically just reflections that I've worked through before... Yadda, yadda, yadda... :D

Edited July 14, 2012 by Alte Veste Academy

[Tress]

Kristina, what a beautiful post! I'm going to read it again and again while planning. Thank you!

[PeterPan]

Kristina, what a beautiful post! I'm going to read it again and again while planning. Thank you!

 

:iagree: :)

[happycc]

each kid gets a ton of breaks throughout the day

 

in between subjects/transitions and such

 

we rotate out kids to watch over the tot

 

also one gets rotated out for chores

 

toilet training disasters/toddler mishaps

 

then you add in bathroom breaks, and food breaks (moms too)

 

then we have this pull up bar in one of the backrooms where the kids escape too to just swing on every once in awhile

 

then we have the kid who wanders around the room looking for a sharpened pencil

 

then husband or friend calls and wants to talk or check in and the kids scatter about-outside or whatever

 

then a neighbor might come over or perhaps an annoying solicitor/or religious visitor-any knock at the door scatters my kids

 

the neighbor's dog shows up in our backyard

 

the mailman, the ice cream truck....ugh it never ends!

 

So I have not been able to time it out yet exactly how much seatwork they are truly doing in one day.

[Poke Salad Annie]

Kristina, what a beautiful post! I'm going to read it again and again while planning. Thank you!

 

:iagree:

[8filltheheart]

 

How much is too much? I don't know. Are you having any fun? In my experience, everything seems to feel like too much when you're not having any fun. I get the feeling you mean nose to the grindstone work and not joyous work. Frankly, no one would be asking how much is too much when they are finding joy and fulfillment in the work and going about the day in blissful ease. :lol:

 

I'm not sure that statement is necessarily accurate and is at odds w/what I have observed and had to deal w/ in my own family. I have 2 children that I specifically have had to limit how much time they spend doing school work. They would quite contentedly spend hrs more in joy and fulfillment doing school.

 

We let go of the reins near the end of 8th grade w/ds and let him start to take control over the length of his days. Now that he is in high school, it is has been a struggle to know how much to let him steer the amt of time vs. how much we should help him see that he needs balance. He spends too much time on academics and I don't want him to look back later in his life and have regret that he didn't spend more time just being a a teenager.

 

His younger sister is very much the same way. But, since she is not in high school, the decision is ours and not hers and quite frankly, we do tell her no more and that she has to go spend time doing other things.

 

Why do we see it as a problem? B/c we believe that there needs to be balance. B/c they take life too seriously. B/c childhood is short and only once. B/c the time that they spend doing school means that they don't have time to spend exploring/developing other areas of their lives and exploring new interests.

 

Conversely, complaining/struggling/disharmony may have absolutely nothing to do w/the amt of time being spent on school but simply reflect an overwhelmed child that doesn't understand what is being asked of him or the work is too difficult or a leap has taken place in work and he didn't leap with it or perhaps the work is too easy and thus not stimulating. (or he simply woke up on the wrong side of the bed and it is one of Alexander's Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Bad Days.)

[Cassy]

Kristina, what a beautiful post! I'm going to read it again and again while planning. Thank you!

 

:iagree: too. You're a star, a total inspiration!

 

Thank you.

[Colleen in NS]

As it stands, there wont be much time after school work is done.

 

In this case, I do think this is too much required schoolwork for a 9yo.

 

My just-finished-Grade-5-dd spent maybe three or four hours a day on required academic work (I'm not counting the hours of reading time she does every day). This included: R&S math, R&S grammar, LC II Latin, MindBenders pre-logic, WRTR spelling, memory work, WTM writing skills; and then content-subjects activities (taking suggestions from WTM) spread out over the week(s)(we're experimenting with concentrating on one content subject a week, and rotating over the weeks).

 

About the lit. analysis - I wonder what age range that p.s. teacher was talking about - in the early grades, I agree - it's not necessary to have a formal class in "lit. analysis". Have you listened to SWB's lit. analysis audio? It might put you at ease with planning lit. studies.

 

On the other hand, we do school for more hours than most people I know. We've been ramping up over the past couple of years and I find that everyone is happier--more satisfied, more fulfilled. What we are brewing up here is a lifestyle of learning every morning that almost flies completely under the radar because it is beloved: music appreciation in the morning while I cook and we eat breakfast; morning meeting with math drills, current events discussion, songs, recitation, etc.; conversational Spanish; creative writing (was a lot of the BW Lifestyle stuff and is now evolving into a writers' workshop); inquiry science with experiments, videos, and the promise of satisfying their own curiosity; history with the best books you could ever find, packed to the gills with fascinating facts and images; MCTLA and LoF while cuddling on the sofa; art projects that I get them started on and they finish up while I make lunch; and lunch and literature. In the afternoon, each child does seatwork, one-on-one with me, and we finish up with a poetry teatime. That is really a great deal of work for a child, but there is very little seatwork or drudgery.

 

I think definitions of "schoolwork/seatwork" come into play in Halcyon's question. Most of what you wrote about is what I consider "life" and "on your own" learning. And then you have required seatwork in the afternoons, for maybe two or three hours?

Edited July 14, 2012 by Colleen in NS
I read Halcyon's lit. analysis comment incorrectly!

[Colleen in NS]

Are you having any fun? In my experience, everything seems to feel like too much when you're not having any fun. I get the feeling you mean nose to the grindstone work and not joyous work. Frankly, no one would be asking how much is too much when they are finding joy and fulfillment in the work and going about the day in blissful ease. :lol:

 

However challenging work does not have to be drudgery. Challenging work can be enjoyable.

 

My adult-self agrees with your sentiment. However, for the student, adolescent hormones come into play at some point; sometimes along with clashes between what the parent thinks the student needs for the long-term and what the student wants in any given moment.

[Kelly1730]

Wow, ladies. Lots of good stuff here. You all inspire me. Just to comment on the lit studies. I plan to incorporate two lit studies into our lessons this year, one in the fall and one in the spring. This is a totally new concept to my rising fifth graders. They love to read and I certainly don't want to kill that. I know that I would not want to analyze every book I ever read. Hopefully, this will introduce them gently to the idea of analyzing a book without killing their love for reading. We shall see.

 

PS. Halcyon, still waiting on those house pics;) and Kristina, I wish you had a blog:) Thanks ladies, again I love the inspiration I am able to glean from you.

[fourisenough]

The tough thing is that this business of raising children is so long-range in scope that we don't get a lot of quality feedback on our success (or failure), until it is too late to correct our course, if needed! That scares me.

 

However, I really like the people I'm raising. They seem confident, happy, at ease in themselves, full of character, and purposeful. I have to assume then, that what I'm doing is working to a large extent. So, we'll just stay the course.

 

As to the specific issue of lit analysis: my girls are all readers. We take the summer off school, but they do a lot of free reading during this time. During the school year, the older two have teacher-led English classes, but my DD3 (age 7) will be doing MCT Alice, Peter, Mole collection. All on the couch, all with me, all followed by afternoon tea. I like that there are only three books at this level (I have a terrible completion-compulsion and if there were more, darn it we'd finish it!). Beyond these three books, she'll just read for pleasure. She tends to pick easy, sweet, older girl-oriented fiction (e.g. Betsy Tacy, All of a Kind Family, B is for Betsy), but she is open to other things which I'll sprinkle in for variety.

 

We don't get around to foreign language until 7th grade; I don't teach any sort of critical thinking/logic; art & music is all outsourced, somewhat sporadically but is high in quality. I just can't do everything and I'm finally becoming okay with that. My kids aren't burned out. I feel like what we do, we do well. But we certainly DON'T do everything.

 

Thanks for starting this thread. Good food for thought.

[stripe]

Well, i think my thinking has been affected because i watched The War on Children on Netflix streaming tonight where a ps teacher says that lit analysis (written, where there are directed questions, etc) kills students' love of books :glare: and this came right after i spent a good portion of the day planning out lit studeis for next year...........:smash: i mean, what is overkill, what is really "needed"? Is this goi g to make him hate reading? And that led me to start pondering what is learning and what does it look like for our family, what do i want my child to get out of this homeschool experience, what kind of person do i want him to become, and how much down time does he need to follow his own daydreams and interests? As it stands, there wont be much time after school work is done.

 

From a suggestion on here I read The Book Whisperer, written by a 6th grade English teacher. She discusses how she shifted away from the traditional approach (including the class novel) and how she molded her lit program on the outcome she most wanted -- adults who love to read. It's worth checking out from the library, I think. She talks about getting rid of a lot of traditional stuff that has been shown to be quickly forgotten, and replacing it with reading. It's a bit CM, if you ask me, but she says it's shown by research that readers know granmar and gain vocabulary better than those using worksheets (paraphrasing). Anyway it's worth considering, even though it's from a classroom perspective. The other big thing is that reading time is important every day and people don't do other things during the time, and SHE models reading too.apparently her students value this positive example a lot.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

DS spends about 5 to 6 hours a day doing school work and several hours reading for fun. I do break it up a bit though. For example, we do a subject, then a 15 minute break. Do a subject, then lunch. Do a subject, then a 15 minute or so break. Do a subject, then a break. Go for a walk. Then maybe another light subject later. As for lit analysis we have used CLE reading for that. We use it about once a week. In regards to to his other reading, I strew quality reading all over. I am more worried about vocab comprehension than tearing apart every book at this point. We did do several books with vocab and comprehension questions from Calvert as well. My focus is more on math, grammar, writing, spelling, typing, penmanship, and vocabulary especially since he will be attending school this fall. As for reading, he is a voracious reader so I am not too worried.

[*Lulu*]

I am really enjoying reading what some of you who have travelled this road awhile think about this. I rarely get to chat with other homeschoolers IRL who have a child older than Punk or who have been homeschooling longer than we have.

 

Currently, when we are schooling full tilt, Punk spends 2 hours on seated work, 2 hours on group work/reading, 2-3 hours reading independently, and 1-2 hours on things that I consider edutainment. There are so many things I think we should be covering that we aren't and I do not see a way unless something is cut, but I feel like we are already only covering essentials.

 

 

So if the time reading and edutainment are how the student chooses to spend free time, should they really be viewed through the same lense as the required work? How do you determine if the balance is off?

[RootAnn]

I struggle with this too, but end up having to "cut" because 1) my kids don't self-direct well (in general) & 2) there isn't enough of me to go around.

 

Right now, with tweaking still possible, my rising (but young) 6th grader has less than 5 hrs/day (23.33 hrs/wk) including reading & piano. My 2nd & 4th graders have less than 3 hrs/day each (14 & 13 hrs/wk, respectively) & that includes my read-aloud time w/them.

 

There are so many things I'd like to add on (and tried to!), but had to cut because of priorities (their learning needs, their interests, life in general).

 

The end-of-the-year eval questions (helped with this process (as oldest wanted to spend more time on languages & more time with me), too.

 

Great thread. Lots to "chew" on.

[laughing lioness]

I look at it like this, too: Education IS character training, it IS the transmission of culture. How you educate IS honing and shaping your kids. Hard work isn't really fun, per se, but proficiency and attaining mastery IS satisfying on a much deeper level than fun. I have a 15 yo friend who is plays first chair violin in a regional orchestra- she gets up early to practice for 2 hrs before getting to her "regular" schedule. Is it "fun"?- she doesn't use that word. She uses the words "passion" and "joy". My kids have FUN-lots of it- they are so tan this summer from friends/swimming, adults haven't even recognized them, but I also think it can be over rated.

 

I have expected much more from my younger kids re: time on seat work than my older ones. I have not caved as much too passive aggressive, non-compliant, "it all has to be fun" attitudes/beliefs. (Which I heard from my kids but also other homeschooling Moms Non-STOP- which, of course, my kids heard....). I was too worried about "getting it right" (we have homeschooled for 22 years so we started back when there was a LOT of pressure. My older kids ARE educated, no doubt, but one in particular also struggles with entitlement re: education/"performance" (for lack of a better word). (Both older girls LOVE to learn, and are autodidacts) but as far as hitting external standards- she just doesn’t believe she should have to so much.

 

I have taken a much more neo-classical approach with my younger 3 (using an external standard) and I think we have served them MUCH better academically AND emotionally.

 

My kids are very focused 3 1/2 days a week- they do English, Latin, history, math, science, memory work on those days and then the days we are not home, they are doing other things. They are doing seat work for 4-6 hrs on those day- plus read-alouds and projects. They read for hours, and have lots of time to hang out as well, participate in camps, and extra curriculars. They are not deprived for doing that amount of work.

 

Re: Lit analysis- if you have someone drilling the kids and killing the joy of understanding lit, of course, it's going to be overkill. If you have someone using Socratic questioning and engaging the kids frontal lobe- kids dig that- where's the overkill? They are learning to use their brain- it's like learning to ride a bike- of course it's challenging, but once they "get it" it's a blast.

 

I was always a voracious reader, but it wasn't until I really got into lit analysis as an adult that I went from being a passive consumer of words "Oh, that was a good book..... (cricket)" to "that was a good book because the author spoke to this theme and delved into these issues and the protagonist was actually the antagonist too, which made it far more interesting...." it engages the mind of the reader in a whole different way.

 

From the 52 books/yr on-line stuff I've delved in to I have been shocked at how many people read hundreds of books of year- crap lit and have little to say about it- it's like diarrhea of words (which is a crude way to put it) but there is no critical thinking about content or what has been read. Really, I've been shocked. Dorothy Sayers says that teaching the masses to read without teaching them to think about it is actually dangerous because you've given a tool with out training. (Paraphrased).

 

RE: Reading, too. I agree with reading TONS- if you check out my blog you will see that we read and read and read and READ. My issue with focusing solely on reading to LEARN is that it is often an overview method of learning, not a mastery method of learning. Reading PLUS a timeline, PLUS memory work, PLUS note booking and even quizzes and tests cement the information even more solidly than JUST reading. Reading is input- requiring output from the student (Performance on some level) takes the learning to a deeper brain place than just gathering and consuming info.

[Embassy]

It depends on many factors. I'd take into account your child's interests, abilities, and your definition of school.

 

My rising 5th grader will spend about 8 hours in total. 1 hour of that is PE. 1 hour is reading. The rest of the time is a mix of reading, seat work, DVDs, and activities. We are not able to do a lot outside the home right now. If he was signed up for one or more activities I would need to decrease his school time.

 

My rising 3rd grader will spend about 6.5 hours with 1 hour for PE. Most of his school time is not seat work though. Outside activities would also decrease this time.

 

My kids like the extras. I could skim down to the minimum, but I would be taking away what they and I enjoy most.

 

For the literature analysis I might pick a couple books a year to study in depth and then just enjoy reading the rest.

 

Even doing this much gives them a couple free hours in the morning and a couple free hours in the evening.

[PeterPan]

My issue with focusing solely on reading to LEARN is that it is often an overview method of learning, not a mastery method of learning. Reading PLUS a timeline, PLUS memory work, PLUS note booking and even quizzes and tests cement the information even more solidly than JUST reading. Reading is input- requiring output from the student (Performance on some level) takes the learning to a deeper brain place than just gathering and consuming info.

 

:iagree:

 

Just wanted to chime in on this. We spent of lot of years read, read, reading for history, etc. and it was great. However now dd is going back through and really nailing the content in the VP history sequence using the online self-paced lessons, and it has been very good. They're so gentle and pleasant about it but insistent on learning tedious things like dates. The end result is she is so much more prepared for higher studies, able to reason through cause/effect, etc.. It was the two together, not one approach or the other. But I wasn't awesome enough to pull that off on my own. I outsource. :D

[PeterPan]

The end-of-the-year eval questions (helped with this process (as oldest wanted to spend more time on languages & more time with me), too.

 

This is the screwiest thing about this age (11+). They want SO MUCH to be independent, but then if you make them too independent they get all squirelly wanting time with you! :lol: I think that's why Kristin's post resonated with me, because she was reminding us to get some INTERACTION in and not just leave them slogging at desks by themselves all day in the name of school work. At least that's what I found compelling from it. It's that romantic side of homeschooling that is easy to get lost in the shuffle. Or better yet, you are commanded to speak NOW and discuss literature and what you think of this book because I gave you this time slot at this point in my day. Yeah. :lol:

[fractalgal]

Can we talk yet again about what is appropriate level/amount/number of hours chuldren should do seatwork daily?

 

As i plan my rising 5th grader's schedule for next year, i am still struggling with hiw much is too much, or how much is enough. I know "it depends" on the student, the curriculum, the teaching style.

 

But can we talk a bit about this subject agaian? Please share your opinion.

 

I think the key to scheduling and minimizing time spent on 'seat'work is combining your priorities with time management. I would schedule what you feel are the most important subjects during when you think are their 'peak' hours of the day. For us, the prime time of day is mid-morning. This is when I assign what I think are the most important subjects and working during this time seems to reduce the amount of 'seat' work/time spent on school for our day. Other topics that I consider important, but not the most important, I would do in the early afternoon. But there comes a time/point in most days where you just know its time to be done. I have found that for us using the 'prime time' of the mid-morning well reduces the likelihood that we are not done by the mid afternoon slowdown.

 

As for developing a love for reading, which is one of our top priorities, we do give our children a 'guided reading time' which is when they read for one hour books that we choose as assigned reading. We do not make them do literature questions/analysis until 5th or 6th grade (and even then only on about 3 to 4 books per year of the many they are chosen) as long as we know that they are reading the books. My husband will occasionally quiz them on something to see if they are reading what they are supposed to.

 

Good luck. :)

[Alte Veste Academy]

I'm not sure that statement is necessarily accurate and is at odds w/what I have observed and had to deal w/ in my own family.

 

My adult-self agrees with your sentiment. However, for the student, adolescent hormones come into play at some point; sometimes along with clashes between what the parent thinks the student needs for the long-term and what the student wants in any given moment.

 

Well, there was this... :tongue_smilie:

 

the usual caveats... None of this might apply to you at all... These are basically just reflections that I've worked through before... Yadda, yadda, yadda... :D

 

I acknowledge that all of what I wrote might not even apply to me in a few more years and/or whenever hormones hit. I agree that it is a balancing act. I was merely writing my thoughts and impressions from where my particular family is balancing nicely at the moment. I am well aware of that. :001_smile:

 

And then you have required seatwork in the afternoons, for maybe two or three hours?

 

Oh, good gravy, no! Each kid does one-on-one, one at a time with me for around an hour (sometimes 1.5 for DS9, .5 for DS6). If I did 2-3 hours with each kid, I might die of that. :tongue_smilie: If I did it with all three at once, it would defeat the purpose, which is focused attention and efficient work. When I am working with one child, the other two are playing or reading or whatever else their little hearts desire. I recognize that the balance will be upset as they age and grow into more demanding curricula. We'll adjust then.

[Alte Veste Academy]

Thanks to those with kind words for my post. Two or so years ago, I was up against the opposite problem, requiring too little to the detriment of my kids' love of learning and work ethic. It is a balance. I think requiring too much and requiring too little are both a disaster in practice. But if there's one thing I've learned from the wise folks on these boards, it's that the biggest disaster of all comes when you neglect relationships.

[Alte Veste Academy]

I don't know what the right balance is... but I think as long as I'm always questioning whether I've found it and thinking of it as a balance, that I'm probably on the right track at least.

 

:iagree:

 

The problem I ran up against was inadvertently thinking of curricula, philosophy, and scheduling as the most important factors. Once I started thinking of the humans and their needs as the most important factors, balance seemed to find its natural place at the head of the line when I planned school.

 

I classify my kids grade-wise by their age regardless of what level of academics they are achieving.

 

...

 

And they have even ended up academically accelerated w/o any effort to accelerate them. (no yr round schooling. No long days. Simply educating them on their level w/in the confines of their age developmentally.)

 

So, that is my btdt perspective and my going to do it over again one as well. No regrets here on letting childhood be childhood. There is nothing at the other end except for adult responsibilities which go on into perpetuity. I have no desire to race them there before they need to be.

 

I love this. I agree, without having btdt, of course. ;)

 

Halcyon, it's obvious that your DS9 (is he still 9? 10 when?) is accelerated/advanced. One way to look at it is that you have free time built into your schedule just by virtue of the fact that he is working so far ahead. So, if you want to schedule x amount of time to get through a, b, and c this year, why not schedule .75x amount of time to get through a and b this year. Why not leave c for next year? Who knows. Maybe with a more relaxed pace, your DS will get reinvigorated and forge ahead with c on his own...or maybe find a d, e, or f that interests him.

 

The thing I like about the whole TIME discussion is that it forces me to *prune* my ideas. Sometimes we get a lot of chaff and stuff that *could* be done but doesn't *have* to be done. Sometimes we're spending a lot of time doing something young that could be done more quickly in a year or two. It really takes a lot of wisdom to narrow down our list from would COULD be done to what is the BEST use of the dc's time.

 

I love this! So true! I am a supplementaholic and could easily overwhelm my kids (not to say I haven't ever, LOL). I've been known to take every single thing off the schoolroom shelves and put back only one thing--the very best thing I've got--for each subject. Then we start there and add, as needed or desired, after we get a rhythm.

 

Hard work isn't really fun, per se, but proficiency and attaining mastery IS satisfying on a much deeper level than fun.

 

:iagree:When I use the word fun about our homeschool, I don't mean gluey, sparkly, crafty, superficial amusement. I mean rewarding.

 

This is the screwiest thing about this age (11+). They want SO MUCH to be independent, but then if you make them too independent they get all squirelly wanting time with you! :lol: I think that's why Kristin's post resonated with me, because she was reminding us to get some INTERACTION in and not just leave them slogging at desks by themselves all day in the name of school work. At least that's what I found compelling from it. It's that romantic side of homeschooling that is easy to get lost in the shuffle. Or better yet, you are commanded to speak NOW and discuss literature and what you think of this book because I gave you this time slot at this point in my day. Yeah. :lol:

 

I learned all about the importance of interaction from these boards, of course. :D Other HS moms with experience saying to be sure not to neglect relationship is probably the most important benefit I've reaped from the Hive. (And that's really saying something because I've bought about a bajillion books recommended here over the years! :lol:)

Edited July 14, 2012 by Alte Veste Academy

[PeterPan]

I learned all about the importance of interaction from these boards, of course. :D Other HS moms with experience saying to be sure not to neglect relationship is probably the most important benefit I've reaped from the Hive. (And that's really saying something because I've bought about a bajillion books recommended here over the years! :lol:)

 

I think this is a good reminder for people who didn't catch it quite as explicitly as you did! :)

 

Do you have links saved up of threads that were particularly inspiring to you in this vein? :)

Edited July 14, 2012 by OhElizabeth

[Chrysalis Academy]

Wonderful, timely thread. I spent some time at the beginning of the summer getting our 5th-grade schedule trimmed down to essentials+interests, and was feeling good about it. Then I realized that Mo's new school's schedule is kinda gumming up the works - her school will go 8-2:20 this year. Miss P is *not* a morning person, starting at 8 is not practical with her, so we won't "finish" school by the time she gets home, like we did last year. So I needed to rethink a little.

 

Also, my big, big goal this year is to *not* rush/feel rushed. Not during the day, not during the course of the year. To be realistic about scheduling, but to build in time for discussion, reading, research about interests. To build in time for interest-based flexibility, while still being confident we aren't falling off the track. To that end, I spend yesterday reorganizing our schedule, and have come up with something that seems worth a try - basically, a longer day with more built-in breaks/reading time, and including Mo in History/Science lessons in the afternoon. The big change will be in our afternoons: we will alternate between History Week (which includes geography & artist/composer studies) and Science Week (which will include BFSU lessons, entomology studies (special interest area) and time for scientific inquiry/science fair projects. When I did this, I felt so much better! I think we will be able to study longer each day, and include Mo, if we aren't feeling so rushed to "get 'er done" every afternoon, trying to fit everything into every week. We'll see how it goes.

 

As far as the Lit Analysis thing - I think this is so easy to overdo at this age. I can't imagine doing written assignments with all or most of the books we read - that would kill the love of school, for sure! We will *discuss* most of the books, and will use literary terminology and identify literary elements, but we will never do short answer/comprehension questions or things like that. On occaision I think there will be a writing assignment based on the book, but we won't write about every book. I gotta be honest, Halcyon, when I read your previous post about your lit analysis plans, my gut reaction was, "Too much". FWIW.

 

A couple of things I've read and listened to lately that have helped shape my thinking on literary analysis/assignments include SWB's lectures, the Literary Analysis one (of course) but also the History as Literature lecture, that is great and talks a lot about what you can do now to ready kids for Great Books study in hs. Also the book "With Rigor For All" by Carol Jago - it is focused on 6-12 grade, but its discussion of teaching literature, and what kind of discussions/assignments focus and deepen literary understanding, is superb.

 

On the type of fast but shallow reading Laughing Lioness so graphically described, "The Pleasures of Reading in an Age of Distraction" by Alan Jacobs was excellent and thought-provoking, both about my own reading habits, as well as teaching literature. I will definitely be adding room for Whim in our reading schedule!

 

Oh, and time spent? As currently programmed, we'll school 9-4:30, with lots of breaks. One hour for Math, 45 min Latin, 2 hours Language Arts (inlcudes MCT, read aloud, WWS, assigned reading), then 1-2 hours in the afternoons for History/Science. So that's ~5+ hours a day, not including free reading.

 

Oh, and I finally managed to schedule daily PE!! Yay for me!!!

Edited July 14, 2012 by rroberts707

[Colleen in NS]

So if the time reading and edutainment are how the student chooses to spend free time, should they really be viewed through the same lense as the required work? How do you determine if the balance is off?

 

I don't view the choice on how to spend free time as schoolwork. I have my requirements, and then I give free time. How do I determine if the balance is off...I experiment each year with the new workload, I tweak every few months depending on a myriad of factors, I "read" my children depending on where they are in development, and I read here about people's experiences with their kids who are older than mine. For example, I've gleaned a lot here about teen development and ups and downs. I can then think about how to fit schoolwork into that. The younger years were easier for me to understand, but I've had a lot of learning to do about adolescents and teens. But, I do enjoy my adolescents, thanks in part to what I have learned from Moms here! :D

 

Well, there was this... :tongue_smilie:

 

I did read your caveats; but I also noticed the age of your oldest, and I couldn't tell from your post if you'd thought ahead - now I know you have. :D

 

Oh, good gravy, no! Each kid does one-on-one, one at a time with me for around an hour (sometimes 1.5 for DS9, .5 for DS6). If I did 2-3 hours with each kid, I might die of that. :tongue_smilie: If I did it with all three at once, it would defeat the purpose, which is focused attention and efficient work. When I am working with one child, the other two are playing or reading or whatever else their little hearts desire.

 

This, along with your comment about doing more hours of school than most people you know, makes me think even further that you and Halcyon might have different definitions of schoolwork. (I'm also going by what I've seen Halcyon post in the past)

 

I think requiring too much and requiring too little are both a disaster in practice. But if there's one thing I've learned from the wise folks on these boards, it's that the biggest disaster of all comes when you neglect relationships.

 

True. And, you can still nurture relationships even while adjusting from "too much" or "too little". You can also nurture relationships through times when your student might say something is "too much" (perhaps having a hormonal day) and you are very confident it isn't.

[PeterPan]

:iagree:When I use the word fun about our homeschool, I don't mean gluey, sparkly, crafty, superficial amusement. I mean rewarding.

 

 

We had a whole thread on the high school board (which MtnTeaching PROMISED me she'll respond to at some point when she can!) about striking that whole balance of getting stuff done and having structure without having it become checklisty. You know what's interesting to me is how well Lion's comments blend with Kristin's. See, for us at least, things go better with structure, a plan. More done=more happy. And yet in our house that more done can't equal more traditional work, because it just plain wears her out. (per the neuropsych, whose professional advice I now take fully in my non-coffee every morning) It has to be more of that joyful stuff (yearbook, shakespeare videos, sculpting something she's studying, etc.). She wants to be busy and doing things and being diligent. It just can't be all mentally hard stuff.

 

Well whatever, lots of great reminders! Now back to figure out what the op wanted! :)

[Tammyla]

;) Worth reading...I love the BTDT voices.

 

I'm not sure it is worth my effort responding, but here is our reality and my perspective.

 

I classify my kids grade-wise by their age regardless of what level of academics they are achieving. My dd that is a rising 5th grader will be 11 in Nov. She will spend no more than 5 to 5 1/2 hrs on school work/day. My rising 8th grader that is functioning on par w/most honors-oriented 10th graders will spend no more than 6-8 hrs/day. She is the age of an 8th grader, so I classify her as an 8th grader and only expect the daily "time" of an 8th grader. Only in high school would I let a student spend more than 6-8 hrs on school work.

 

My older kids have all excelled academically w/o hrs and hrs of academics during primary and elementary school. They have all enjoyed learning. Not one of the older 5 suffered from middle school mental fog but actually had huge mental growth spurts during the middle school yrs. The older ones have/had internal motivation during high school. (our Aspie......maybe not so much internally, but he was never resistant to academics and thrives in academic settings.) And they have even ended up academically accelerated w/o any effort to accelerate them. (no yr round schooling. No long days. Simply educating them on their level w/in the confines of their age developmentally.)

 

So, that is my btdt perspective and my going to do it over again one as well. No regrets here on letting childhood be childhood. There is nothing at the other end except for adult responsibilities which go on into perpetuity. I have no desire to race them there before they need to be.

[Alte Veste Academy]

I think this is a good reminder for people who didn't catch it quite as explicitly as you did! :)

 

Do you have links saved up of threads that were particularly inspiring to you in this vein? :)

 

Just a pile of posts that I can thumb through later. Maybe I'll do a thread this week...

[Colleen in NS]

i mean, what is overkill, what is really "needed"? Is this goi g to make him hate reading?

 

...how many books do you think we can get through in one school year? ...After he reads each chapter, we will do a corresponding lit study with questions, projects, etc.

 

If you have a child in 5th, how much literature did your child read, assuming you did some sort of corresponding lit study?

 

Right, but we are doing comp exercises, vocab, projects, and such after each couple of chapters, and looking at the lit guides i have in place, they wont be quick...

 

I took some quotes from your lit. thread. If I had done with my kids in Grade 5 what you are proposing, it would have killed their love of reading.

 

I used a couple different lit. suggestion lists (WTM, Classical Christian homeschool 1,000 Good Books) and worked my way through it, either buying books or reserving them from the library. I would basically hand them over each day at "reading time" (two hours after lunch), and tell them to just read. I would then incorporate some of the reading into whatever their daily writing exercise was. For example, if dd (who just finished Grade 5) had a narration to do that day, I'd say, "How about you narrate a part of Little Women? Go pick your favourite chapter or two." Or, I would sit with dd and my WTM book and ask her questions about Little Women, with the guidance of the lit. analysis questions in WTM. We'd have a casual discussion in which she slowly learned how to think a little more deeply about her reading. Then I might have her write a short narration about it, plus answer one or two of the evaluation questions in WTM (again, as her daily writing assignment).

 

Using this method, my kids are able to read a lot more books than you put on your list. They just don't analyze all of them. And the ones they do - we'd maybe do analysis once or twice a month, and not to the depth you are talking about. Comprehension exercises? You can tell comprehension via a discussion and a writing assignment (do you use WWS? You can use the skills learned from that to make a writing assignment). Vocab? Yours will learn a LOT of vocab because of his Henle Latin study, along with reading.

 

My son, with whom I also did this, is beginning Grade 9 now, and I am trying out the lit. analysis suggested in WTM and on the lit. audio - I'm in the "figuring out what to do now and what to save for later" stage, but so far, he is progressing along nicely. I used some of the WEM questions with him on Gilgamesh, and he is starting to see how to develop a pattern to think a little more deeply about his reading.

 

No i havent. Thank u! I love her writing lectures so this will be up next. Great to listen to while i do my curriculum planning!

 

I hope this lecture will ease things for you! :D

 

EDIT: You know, if you're not comfortable with doing the process I described above, you could still use your lit. guides, but tweak them. Don't do as many of the exercises, and don't do them after every chapter. Think about what your son is learning elsewhere, such as the vocab in his Latin. Maybe just use some of the basic comprehension questions in each lit. guide.