Q. re: Shifting from historical fiction to good children's books for Lit.

[Annabel Lee]

Sorry this ended up being so long!

In my search for a more structured literature study, I stumbled across a post by Swimmermom in which she asked 8FilltheHeart for advice on literature. I devoured the whole thread, which ended up reflecting ideas from the massive Circe thread, and now I'm a bit lost.

 

My kids are younger, so I feel a bit silly posting here, but as I read through websites looking for "Literature" for next year (TtC, many different lit. guide samples online, etc.) I feel the need to know where I'm headed with literature in order to know how to prepare the kids. I'm hoping that some of you who've BTDT will offer advice.

 

I'll preface my questions by noting that I could use a literature refresher - my own education left me lacking thorough familiarity with terms, devices, and especially analysis. I'm familiar with the very basics, but to give an example, I could probably learn much from TtC based on their samples & website. My problem is that I want it all for my kids - the structural knowledge from something like TtC and then higher levels of that same sort of study AND the good, familiar, children's classics, but I don't want to have regrets later. I do want my kids to have an easier time with Great Books later on, in HS & college, for having read children's versions. On the other hand I hate that my 6th grader has never read any of the Little House on the Prairie series, Narnia, The Hobbit, or even The Mouse and the Motorcycle or Alice in Wonderland. I want them to read some good children's lit. while they're young. We've read a small stack of "fun reads", good children's classics, as bedtime stories over the years, but I've mostly stuck to the history-based reading lists and curricula for school reading.

 

This year, before the Circe thread appeared, I read a blurb in TWTM logic stage section (3rd ed., p. 344) that says to keep a balance of at least one work of imagination for every biography or book of history and that really stuck with me. I think these works of imagination are still intended to be authored within the history period being studied. At least, that's how I read it, but I've always been in "extract the instructions so I can follow them exactly" mode when reading WTM.

 

For those of you who do not require all literature to be tied to history, do you still have your kids discuss and study the "fun" books? What should I use for this since at first, I'll be learning some of it right along with them? Do you choose "just for fun" books that are still authored in or written about the time period you're studying in history? I'm thinking of dropping some of the history-centered books, esp. historical fiction, from our schedule. My kids haven't enjoy many of them this year anyhow, and only read good books if I assign a certain # of pages per day. All they read of their own volition currently are Calvin & Hobbes, Garfield, 39 Clues, and Origami Yoda/Darth Paper books. I've always wished we had time to read the entire book whenever we read the passages from WWE.

 

Other than titles I mentioned above, and the WWE book lists, which books are not to be missed for kids this age who've been bogged down with history books for 4 years? Where should I look for lists of good children's classics?

[Kfamily]

I usually have my dds read from several lists per year.

(I also keep a number of good children's books here at home. This gives them lots of free reading choices too, and I also try to support their interests by buying books that they are interested in reading.)

 

We usually have the following lists:

 

Books that are meant to be studied (as in we read, discuss and sometimes dig deeper with narrations, study examples of literary terms, etc. These are the good children's classics, poetry, mythology, legends/tales, Great Books when in High School, etc.)

 

Books that supplement history (I try to keep this list small and very focused. As my dc get older, I like to use primary souces and biographies/autobiographies with only one or two other types of books for supplements.)

 

Books for independent reading (the girls choose from a large list of good books to read independently....but I should emphasize that I'm very open with this list, so they are more like suggestions. I let the girls trade in a book if they've given it a good chance by reading at least the first three chapters. I also let them bring new suggestions to me and I'll add them to the list if they are of good quality. These are books that they just read on their own. Sometimes I ask them to tell me about the chapter they've just read, but this is very informal.)

 

Here is one list I like a lot:

 

http://www.classical-homeschooling.org/celoop/1000.html

 

I also like the suggestions from Ambleside Online:

 

http://www.amblesideonline.org/curriculum.shtml

Edited July 12, 2012 by Kfamily

[Lori D.]

All they read of their own volition currently are Calvin & Hobbes, Garfield, 39 Clues, and Origami Yoda/Darth Paper books.

 

 

First, to put your mind at ease, that's pretty much what our DSs did for free reading throughout the years, as well. ;) You might try reading the first book of a fun but well-written series that is at a 5th/6th grade reading level (ex: Half Magic),or a 3rd/4th grade reading level (ex: Henry Huggins; or The Rescuers) as a read aloud, and then the older DC might really enjoy it and jump on the rest of the series and read them on their own.

 

 

 

I feel the need to know where I'm headed with literature in order to know how to prepare the kids.

 

... I could use a literature refresher - my own education left me lacking thorough familiarity with terms, devices, and especially analysis.

... I want... the structural knowledge from something like TtC

... and then higher levels of that same sort of study AND the good, familiar, children's classics

... I do want my kids to have an easier time with Great Books later on, in HS & college

... I want them to read some good children's lit. while they're young.

... I'm thinking of dropping some of the history-centered books, esp. historical fiction, from our schedule.

 

 

Sounds like you have a pretty clear picture of what you want, to me! :) So, how specifically to accomplish it?

 

- Gain "fluency" with great writing through tons of read-alouds and listening to audio books in the car. JMO, but HEARING great writing does more for preparing for the Great Books than any other thing I can think of.

- Develop analysis skills from early on by talking about choices, consequences, reasons "why", what will happen, etc -- seen from politicians, books, movies, real life friends/family, etc.

- Practice/develop analyzing skills through logic and critical thinking puzzles and games, starting when DC are young.

- Go over Teaching the Classics (or whatever resource will help you learn what you feel you are lacking for lit. analysis) for yourself now.

- As your students reach middle school grades and are ready, begin to learn literary terms (ex: use Figuratively Speaking).

- In middle school, do a gentle intro into Literature program or lit. guides. (ex: Lightning Lit 7 or 8; Literary Lessons from the Lord of the Rings; lit. guides from Garlic Press publishers and others)

- All throughout their lives, read aloud, read together, listen to audio books -- books above AND below their reading levels -- but that are wonderfully written, engaging, with well-drawn characters, exciting plots, moral choices and dilemmas, humor, etc.

 

 

Here is SWB's handout on What is Literary Analysis (And When to Teach It). Even better, download and listen to her audio lectures on the topic of literary analysis and Great Books.

 

 

Here are some past threads with ideas for moving into teaching literary analysis:

Does a 7th grader need lit. analysis

Literary Analysis... Talk to me: What IS literary analysis? What age/grade to begin

Opinions desired re: literary analysis (for gr. 6 and 7)

What's a good first book to do literary analysis with (for a 10yo -- but many of these would be good for gr. 5-7)

Literary Analysis (when to start/what to use)

At what age should literary analysis start

Literary Analysis (request for specific resources)

Teaching Literary Elements

Does this book exist re: teaching literary analysis

Who has listened to SWB's new writing and lit. analysis lectures?

 

 

 

 

... I want them to read some good children's lit. while they're young.... but I've mostly stuck to the history-based reading lists and curricula for school reading... in TWTM logic stage section... says to keep a balance of at least one work of imagination for every biography or book of history... I think these works of imagination are still intended to be authored within the history period being studied. At least, that's how I read it... For those of you who do not require all literature to be tied to history, do you still have your kids discuss and study the "fun" books? ... Where should I look for lists of good children's classics?

 

 

Gently, this sounds a bit structured, formal or "educational". I truly believe the first step to getting your children to like/understand/analyze the Classics is to first just *enjoy* the experience of sharing wonderful books together -- not worrying about lists, not worrying about tying read-alouds to history periods, not worrying about reading so many of which different genre of books (biography, history, fantasy...)

 

If you haven't read Narnia, The Hobbit, The Mouse and the Motorcycle or Alice in Wonderland -- do it now! Make those the first books you check out of the library or purchase or pull off the shelf as your family read alouds starting now. Make time in the school schedule (right after lunch often works VERY well as a transition back into school for everyone), and read aloud for 15-20 minutes, or for a chapter out of these wonderful books. And again at night at bedtime! Just enjoy these books and let the language and rich characters roll over you all; soak it in; laugh together; live the experience of the characters together.

 

No, don't analyze these fun family read-alouds. At most, maybe once in awhile (not every day) point out a lovely turn of phrase that you especially liked/found meaningful. Or say, "Gosh this is exciting! What do you think is going to happen next!", or "Hey! What did this remind you of?"

 

An additional option is to assign some of these great books (that are grade-level appropriate) as the school reading. And if at all possible, read these WITH each student, popcorn style ("you read a page, I read a page") for 20 minutes. I only had 2, so that was do-able; if you have more students, you may have to alternate days, so Mon/Wed students A and B get that time with you, and Tues/Thurs, students C and D get that time with you.

 

And with this school reading, no, I wouldn't worry about moving into analysis until the individual student is ready -- usually somewhere between grades 6-8. And when it is time, make it a gentle transition, with some books still at grade level, some just a little above, and continue to do the Literature aloud together so you can discuss and analyze together in the moment -- and again, be sharing the moment and making a family memory while learning.

 

 

Here are my favorite lists to choose from of good books:

- 1000 Good Books (grouped by 4 age levels)

- Sonlight (by grade level)

- Ambleside Online (by grade level -- NOTE: esp. after grade 6, I think their recommendations often run 1-3 grades ADVANCED)

 

These past threads have some good recommendations for book titles:

How about a list of great books with high interest and literary value?

Which 20 books to help prepare for reading the Great Books?

What authors stretch children to prepare for future Great Books study?

Which books are most important to prepare for reading Great Books?

 

 

Sounds like you are on the right road! Enjoy your family Journey with the Great Books! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited July 12, 2012 by Lori D.
added links

[Chrysalis Academy]

As always, Lori's post blew me away! Only one small thing to add, I just listened to SWB's lecture on Great Books as History yesterday, and I think you might get a lot out of it that addresses your question. I know she has a LIt Analysis lecture too, which is great, but the GB lecture really gives a nice overview about what/why you do in the elementary and middle school years that helps prepare students for GB study in hs, and it was very helpful to me.

[Annabel Lee]

Phew, I've got some reading to do!

 

Kfamily, thanks for sharing your way of organizing into 3 groups of books.

 

Lori D., as you might have guessed, BJU Reading bombed big-time (I PMed you about it some time ago). We lasted a week, but wanted to quit even before that. I had such high hopes for it. I guess some folks are cut out for it and some just aren't.

 

Whenever I have read the first book of a series that they end up enjoying, they only want the rest as read-alouds, too. My older son has followed up on 2 series on his own, but quit early on one and only read the other after I'd read almost the whole series aloud. I'm not sure how to "hook" them, other than to just keep trying different books. :confused:

 

I'll read through all those links when I have a better chunk of time, re-listen to SWB's lecture & print the handout, ask the kids which of those books (we own them!) they want to read first, and last but not least, :chillpill:!

 

Thanks for helping me with this. :grouphug:

[Candid]

As you consider your own education, I'd not spend a lot of time learning about literary analysis, instead read great works. Make sure you search out strong editions of those works where you get a nice long introduction written by somebody else. Learning literary vocabulary is not in my mind that important, learning how folks who think about lit for a living think is (and of course, being familiar with the works helps, too!)

[Snoopytwo]

Annabel,

 

This is the booklist I refer to most often. http://fredpratt.tripod.com/booklist/ It basically lists the best of the best in children's literature. These are the ones I feel we should cover before high school. I also look at many other lists, but sometimes those lists can be overwhelming. There are so many good children's books. I figure that if we at least read the ones on the list linked above, my children will be getting a decent literary education.

 

Of course, this list is just someone else's opinion of what is the best. If we come across a book that isn't to our liking, we skip it and move on.