Need info comparing Interactive Metronome, Neuronet, & Pace (or Learning Rx)

[Laurie4b]

A new neruopsych eval we got for our ds has propelled me into pursuing means in addition to OT to help remediate his visual perceptual and motor skills. He has issues with the vestibular system , bilaterality, & fine and gross motor skills. Visual perception and active working memory are also relative problems, but not as much as the others. He has problems with distractibility and impulsivity in school work or clinical settings. (I don't really see impulsivity any more in social situations or judgment). Has sensory integration issues, too. Whew. Too many dys-es as one of my friends put it! He may be ADHD, but the clinician couldn't be sure because of the other stuff. We may do a trial of meds to see if that helps.

 

My current plan is to pursue vision therapy to see if we can refine the improvement in eye movement that we got during our first course of OT. From what I remember reading here, it's preferable to get the eye movement stuff taken care of before moving on to cognitive skills training. There is an IM provider who is nearby and is also a highly regarded OT. (Would mean switching from current OT) Don't know about Neuronet providers yet. There is a Learning Rx provider an hour away. I had originally just thought I'd do vision therapy followed by Learning Rx, but now am wondering if I should do IM and/or Neuronet in the meantime.

 

I've never had any auditory processing testing done, though I haven't observed anything that would lead me to believe it's a problem.

[Mom0012]

Laurie -

 

I'm doing Neuronet now with my son. We had to travel to Florida to get him evaluated by Nancy Rowe, the developer of the program. Since then, we have met by webcam once every 3 - 4 weeks. We've been doing the program since August. My son can now do things physically that I honestly wouldn't have thought possible in the past. I also feel that it is helping him with his processing abilities. The exercises take about 15 - 20 minutes a day to do.

 

Let me know if you have any questions about it.

 

Lisa

[Laurie4b]

Thanks very much!

 

What is Nancy Rowe's background?

How old is your son?

Does your son have similar issues to mine?

How much does it cost?

[Claire]

The old NeuroNet website had a *ton* of information on it. If I had known she was going to change it, I would have printed everything off for reference. As I recall, she is an OT who has done a lot of research into auditory processing. She is eclectic and has drawn on a lot of different types of research to develop her approach. She works on changing the underlying neurology with incremental exercises tailored to the individual child.

 

From what I know of all the approaches, NeuroNet would be the most fundamental therapy. If vision therapy is needed, it would come towards the end of NeuroNet. Interactive Metronome would come after NeuroNet, but could be done concurrently with vision therapy. NN would work on basic timing skills. IM, because of the way it provides feedback about timing (in microseconds, if that is the correct term) works on refining basic timing skills and developing them to the highest level possible. If you were to do all of these therapies, LearningRx would be the very last one. The timing gains from NN and IM would give the student a "head start" in LearningRx. Basically the student would be able to start at a higher level of exercise and, theoretically at least, be able to progress to a higher level in the time available.

 

Again, from what I remember from the old website, NN starts more from the auditory side of development and works on vestibular development from that angle. Improvements in vision are somewhat incidental to that. However, if any portion of the vision problems are related to vestibular development (and with unremediated SID, that is likely), you would want to do NN before testing visual efficiency skills.

 

I had a friend in Florida who took her son to Nancy Rowe. He had many issues, including both auditory and visual processing problems. Vision therapy had been only partially helpful to him. Anyway, she said they got the most global improvements with NeuroNet. FastForWord was also very helpful for him. They also did Interactive Metronome. An unplanned side effect of IM was that her son could finally write entire paragraphs. Apparently he had motor planning problems that were interfering with his handwriting.

 

I think NeuroNet must be priced similar to other therapies, as my friend was not wealthy and she never complained about its cost. I have heard that Interactive Metronome now has a home kit, which makes it less expensive. IM is a tough program, though, and I would think that having a trained provider could be well worth the money. My friend said their provider was a great cheerleader and got her son to try harder than he would have for her. LearningRx costs, I think, in the neighborhood of $3,000 for a 12-week program, although costs probably vary from one part of the country to another.

[Laurie4b]

Thanks, Nancy. My big question about Neuronet is the emphasis on the auditory side, since it seems like my son is ok in that area. (Again, no testing done.)

 

I think his SID is substantially remediated, but it's still there. There were huge improvements the first time we did OT, so much so that I thought things were close to normal, except for the difficulty with handwriting.

I've emailed Nancy Rowe. I'll see what she says.

 

Thanks for the suggestions about what order to do things in.

 

Learning Rx in our area is $3000-10,000. It's 3,000 for the 12 wk. course without Mastering the Code and with one visit per week, $5000 for the same and two visits per week. You get up to $10,000 for Learning Rx plus Mastering the Code together twice per week.

[Claire]

Interactive Metronome was designed to be a motor planning therapy. The auditory portion of it is simply how the feedback is delivered. In the current version they have added visual feedback so the student can use both auditory and visual cues for timing.

[Mom0012]

Thanks very much!

 

What is Nancy Rowe's background?

How old is your son?

Does your son have similar issues to mine?

How much does it cost?

 

 

Laurie -

 

My son is 8 years old. The similarities I see are that he has had trouble with both fine motor and gross motor skills/motor planning as well as working memory. The cost is reasonable as far as therapies go. I think I paid $600 for 2 full mornings of her time for the initial evaluation and then I pay her $140 every time we meet by webcam. When we meet by webcam, it is for about 1 1/2 hours and then she prepares data sheets for me after we meet. She did have me seek out an evaluation for auditory processing disorder and that was expensive because my insurance covered very little of it.

 

I have been very happy with Neuronet, but it's so hard to say if it would be right for your son. E-mail Nancy and see what she says. I feel she really cares and that if she doesn't think the program would benefit you, she won't recommend that you do it. She has 2 special needs children herself and is very dedicated to helping others. She has called me at home to discuss my son and spent more than an hour on the phone with me a couple of times and never charged me. I believe her background is as an audiologist and an ot.

 

While my son did get evaluated for APD, he does not have it. He does, however, have many auditory weaknesses. One of the things that has happened with him since we started Neuronet is that he is picking up on conversations I'm having, whether it be on the phone or the next room with my husband. Prior to Neuronet, he never would have noticed anything I was talking about on the phone. Now I have to be careful about what I say around him for the first time. Nancy says this is because we have reorganized his brain and he now has enough mental energy to listen in whereas before it took all he had just to focus on what he was doing.

 

Another thing that has happened for my son since beginning Neuronet is that he is now able to play video games. This obviously wasn't a goal of mine, but I think it must be related to hand-eye coordination or motor planning. He was not able to play before and now he really enjoys it.

 

Hope this helps!

Lisa

[Jan P.]

My dd has an auditory processing disorder. Several years ago she went through two Fast ForWord therapies. Then over a summer she did IM. IM is used for helping with motor processing, but I believe it is also to help with learning. We were hoping this program would help my dd with her memory. I never quite understood how "timing" would help with that. Well we spent the big bucks, and my dd did not do well with the program. I think part of it was her attitude. It was awful!! It didn't help that she was giving up several weeks of summer vacation to do this. I do know that IM has helped many folks, so take my story with a "grain of salt". However, sometimes there are no quick fixes.

 

HTH,

[Tara from Florida]

I know that from time to time people post the cost of LearningRX centers and PACE for training. I would caution everyone to check out the center and trainers in their own area before assuming this figure is accurate for your area. There are NO set fees for PACE or LearningRX. They are set by the individual provider or LearningRX franchise.

 

In some places the prices will be less and others will be quite a bit higher. I have spoken with many providers and centers (I am a PACE trainer myself and often get people on my site looking for a referral in their area) and the prices can vary dramatically.

 

I never quote a price even for my own clients until I have tested them and know what their needs are. That would be like quoting the cost of a car to someone without knowing if they need a VW Bug or an Excursion. Someone may get an inflated price that is not an accurate reflection of what it is really going to cost for their needs or conversely they may think they are getting a deal only to find out there are add-ons. This is neither good business nor good for the client.

 

Without apology I will let you know that my prices can be higher than those that I have seen quoted. Let's be real though, cost of living in SW Florida can be a bit higher (including real estate rental) than in many areas of the country. Also, if you look on Internet classifieds for LearningRX trainer jobs you will discover that they only pay their trainers an average of $10-$15 an hour.

 

I have always felt that you get what you pay for. I would not be able to hire someone I would want working with MY child for that price. I currently have someone working with me as a trainer who is a teacher and who is finalizing his Masters in Christian Education. Offering someone as qualified and motivated as he is only $15 an hour would not only be an insult but wouldn't get me too far. Around here 12-year-old babysitters get $10 an hour!

 

Having said all that, I can say that many of my students finish with PACE and Master the Code faster than expected. I will not recommend ever doing less than 12 weeks (because of the neuro-pathway development process), but often I can get a child to successfully complete both programs well within 75 hours (total hours between me and the parents and even less if I am doing all the training or my trainer is working with the student too).

 

Point in fact - one child I am working with right now is ready to start Master the Code, having completed all but a few of the auditory activities, and will finish up the remaining PACE activities while working through Master the Code. She is 12 and has only been in the program for 27 hours. Her scores were all 3-7 years below age level (with the exception of memory which was just at age level) and it took a full week to get through some of the basic auditory activities.

 

If someone were to compare what it would cost to pay me to take a child through 24 weeks of the program compared with them, they would go with the other person based on raw dollar figures. But when looking for a PACE trainer or at a LearningRX Center you also need to know what the individual provider's success rates are and the average time it takes for them to encourage and work a child through the procedures. Doing your homework you will often find that what looks to be more expensive on an hourly rate is actually the better deal in the long run.

 

I used to be an attorney (OK I still am but I don't work in that profession any more). Some attorneys charged a boatload per hour and others very little by comparison. If you had a complex case you may think going to the attorney who charges less per hour would be the better deal. The question I would ask is, why does the one charge more? If it is because they have more experience and can answers the questions quicker and with accuracy, while the other would need to clock in hours of research and may be learning as they go ..... well I'll have a lot less problem paying the higher hourly rate in that situation.

 

Before working with any LearningRX or PACE trainer, find out how many students they have taken through the program, what their beginning scores and end scores were, and how many hours they took to finish. This will give a better indication of how well your money is being spend. After all, with our kids isn't it the results we want? What good is it to have a cheaper program that doesn't accomplish what you need?

 

Be aware that LearningRX franchises usually pair your child up with the same trainer all the time. Find out what that particular trainer's experience and track record are. Don't fall for the "total center" results as being indicative of what you child will be getting.

 

I have to say that even with new and unskilled trainers I have seen good and even great results from the PACE program. The question is how long do you want to invest in doing the program and how much is the total cost going to run?

 

If you would like more information about the PACE and Master the Code programs please feel free to visit my site. Since most everyone is not in my area I trust this won't be perceived as a marketing ploy, but rather as dissemination of information, which is my intention.

 

Good luck.

[Guest Martis]

So, here are some of the links:

 

My autistic son has improved tons with these kinds of therapies, I posted videos on youtube, he is talkiing much more and more aware and can do things that I never thought he would do.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[juls]

Both of my sons have done IM and I have also recommended it to friends. For us I think there have been some noticeable benefits, especially for my son who has SID and some other mild issues. This particular child struggled to do well with it (he often hated going during our first round) so we worked for 15 sessions and stopped. He did make gains though. We then began again 8 months latter and did 6 more sessions. This second round he was much more compliant. I plan to try it a third time with this same child in the summer. My goal is to get this son into the average or better than average category. I was most impressed that his gains have remained. He functions much better socially and seems to have more self control. In general, we saw an overall improvement in the whole child after IM. Small things but well worth the time.

 

Now I recommended IM to a friend with two autistic daughters. One of her daughters would not comply (they gave it a try but she is severely disabled from the autism), but the other daughter had AMAZING gains. Her language and social abilities blossomed very noticeably. This is a family that has tried countless therapies and programs for their girls. IM for this daughter was one of there clear success stories and it was much cheaper then many other things they have tried.

 

Hope this Helps,

Juls

[Mom22ns]

I only have experience with IM and can't speak to the others you are comparing with, but we did IM a few years ago. My son is high functioning mildly autistic. He had trouble with verbal processing (slow) and motor skills. He also had impulse control issues in social situations. He was 8 at the time we used IM.

 

His receptive verbal processing improved dramatically, his motor skills also improved. His impulse control was an occasional problem, so it was very difficult to measure improvement. I thought IM was time and money well spent. We, like you had an OT nearby who was trained in IM and it was easily available to us. There was a clinic near here that did IM training for ADHD kids from an entire large school district on contract. They saw great results working on attention and impulse control and had a contract for a couple of years before the district took it in-house and got their own OTs certified and doing the therapy.

 

Just one more side of the coin to consider.