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This kind of thinking just doesn't fit when your mother is a narcissist or a sociopath. To continue implying that it does is just hurtful. I imagine Impish has been dealing with being told how horrible of a daughter she is for her whole life. At some point it becomes a matter of survival as an emotionally intact human being.

 

Forgive me if I'm speaking out of turn.

No, you've nailed it.

Actually, Imp's mother is the one who is reaping that which she has sown. She plowed spite and venom into her daughter's life. The natural consequence harvest of such treatment is noncontact. OTOH, Imp is teaching her children that people must treat each other with civility and respect if they wish to interact with each other. She is educating them that abuse is not to be tolerated and that they are worthy of respect and worthy of being protected from harm. I certainly hope they do see such behaviors as viable.

 

While the one person who wrote the online letter you read might have regretted her choice, none of us know her circumstances. Certainly, Imp grieves for the mother that she did not have, for the nurturing relationship that was denied to her by the woman who gave birth to her, for a grandmother for her children, for happy family holiday visits - for a "normal" life. I'm sure she regrets terribly that these things didn't, don't, and can't happen. But permitting her mother's heinous behavior to continue will not restore any of these gaps. Continuing contact with someone who is not mentally capable of civil interaction will only heap more pain onto Imp's head and start the process of piling it onto the heads of her children.

 

How could you possibly condone the continuing spread of such sickness and pain? Imp honors her mother by not demanding retribution for the crimes she has committed, by not teaching the grandchildren to hate her but merely explaining to them that their grandmother has an illness, by having repeatedly turned the other cheek despite the enormity of many of the injustices perpetrated against her.

 

Yes, it is terribly sad when a child has to take such action against a parent. But there are times and circumstances where noncontact is the best, most humane thing to do. And I believe this is one of them.

thank you for understanding

I think she's already tried doing that.

Yes. I've gotten several books, incl Boundaries by the same authors, and more waiting at the library. Their statement that 'forgiveness does not equal reconcilliation' was a huge lightbulb for me.

I'm sorry, but I agree with LL and Chucki.

 

 

 

No, I get it. I do. However, what I also *know* is that ignoring her will only agitate the situation. She'll hire a private detective, she'll call the police and file a missing persons report, she'll call CPS, she'll sue for grandparents rights, etc. She'll do any or all of those things, even if you move and don't give her your info.

 

Sending brief notes as opposed to seeing you or talking to you might not make her less annoyed, but it will likely keep social services and the police off of your back.

 

eta: Just to be clear-I don't think you owe her anything. I think you owe yourself the easiest path possible. Personally, I think the above is the easier path. JMO.

One of the good things about living provinces apart is that she cannot sue for Gpa Rights. She'd have to a) prove that one of us is dead b) prove that we're seperated/divorced, c) that she's been an ongoing part of our children's lives, and d) file here in my province, as any orders made in her her province cannot be enforced here. Family law is provincial.

 

Basically, she's SOL in terms of Gpa Rights. I checked into it thoroughly, as part of my path to making this decision.

 

My concern is, shooting her an email now proves to her that her actions prompt desired behaviour on my part. How much worse would it get later, when I cease all communication?

 

I just don't honestly know if it would be worth the few wks of peace we may get. B/c I *do* know that I'm totally, completely, and utterly done w/this relationship. I can't spend the rest of my life humouring her to keep her from trying to destroy me. And, make no mistake...a brief email is going to prompt a barrage of venom b/c I didn't jump and run before now. She gets an email, she's going to call, and expect/demand I answer. When I don't...things are just going to escalate the second I don't respond the way she demands.

 

I just really feel at the end of my rope, like I simply cannot choke one more moment of her down.

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Wolf's promo is to *replace* his boss. If we could just talk to his boss, he'd lol at my mother's antics, tell her where to go and how to get here, and hang up. He's awesome.

 

Problem is, he's going away this wk for 2 wks vaca...and HIS boss steps in. And it's HIS boss that's going to hear from her, by default, b/c Wolf's boss won't be coming back from vaca, he's using the time to move to his new job locale.

 

Wolf hasn't had much to do w/HIS boss at all, but his impression of him isn't of someone that seems really approachable/understanding...and it's this guy who'll be making the decision as to if Wolf gets the promo or not. We don't need to be dragging Wolf's crazy a$$ MIL into the waters w/that on the line.

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I'm sorry, but I agree with LL and Chucki.

 

 

 

No, I get it. I do. However, what I also *know* is that ignoring her will only agitate the situation. She'll hire a private detective, she'll call the police and file a missing persons report, she'll call CPS, she'll sue for grandparents rights, etc. She'll do any or all of those things, even if you move and don't give her your info.

 

Sending brief notes as opposed to seeing you or talking to you might not make her less annoyed, but it will likely keep social services and the police off of your back.

 

eta: Just to be clear-I don't think you owe her anything. I think you owe yourself the easiest path possible. Personally, I think the above is the easier path. JMO.

 

Does she have resources for hiring a private detective? Everything other than calling CPS is rather labour intensive, and it doesn't sound to me that a person like her will go through the trouble. She is set in her ways, and she's used to her behaviour working on Imp, and gets gratification from it. Now things have changed.

 

I have a narcisstic mother. I haven't talked to her in 8 years. Not an easy decision, bu It's been great.

 

I think Imp needs to write her a single email asking her not to contact her either via email or by phone. If she attempts to contact again, Imp needs to call the police and file a harrassment report.

 

I don't trust CPS, but when one is prepared for a possible report, one can stay one step ahead. Keep your house tidy, have food in the fridge--this is all they look at. My feeling is that if she tries to report you, from across the country, her report was already going to be treated with some degree of suspicion.

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Wolf's promo is to *replace* his boss. If we could just talk to his boss, he'd lol at my mother's antics, tell her where to go and how to get here, and hang up. He's awesome.

 

Problem is, he's going away this wk for 2 wks vaca...and HIS boss steps in. And it's HIS boss that's going to hear from her, by default, b/c Wolf's boss won't be coming back from vaca, he's using the time to move to his new job locale.

 

Wolf hasn't had much to do w/HIS boss at all, but his impression of him isn't of someone that seems really approachable/understanding...and it's this guy who'll be making the decision as to if Wolf gets the promo or not. We don't need to be dragging Wolf's crazy a$$ MIL into the waters w/that on the line.

 

Goodness, that complicates things. I didn't know about this stuff when I first posted. I have no idea what the best move is but I pray that God makes it clear to you. :grouphug:

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Wolf's promo is to *replace* his boss. If we could just talk to his boss, he'd lol at my mother's antics, tell her where to go and how to get here, and hang up. He's awesome.

 

Problem is, he's going away this wk for 2 wks vaca...and HIS boss steps in. And it's HIS boss that's going to hear from her, by default, b/c Wolf's boss won't be coming back from vaca, he's using the time to move to his new job locale.

 

Wolf hasn't had much to do w/HIS boss at all, but his impression of him isn't of someone that seems really approachable/understanding...and it's this guy who'll be making the decision as to if Wolf gets the promo or not. We don't need to be dragging Wolf's crazy a$$ MIL into the waters w/that on the line.

 

Wolf t any boss, tomorrow: "I have a mentally ill MIL. She might contact you--she's done crazy things before. Please disregard / Please tell your secretary not to forward the calls."

 

That's all, really.

 

They hired Wolf, presumably because they liked him and his qualifications. They've gotten to know him, already. There's nothing that she can do to him or his job security over the phone. Nothing.

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Yeah, it's not his current position that concerns me, it's the promo. Dealing w/a nutbar MIL might be construed as being unable to handle even more on his plate.

 

She just called again. Now she's decided that I must be away, since I haven't jumped and run to the phone to return her calls. That's the only plausible reason.

 

Whatever. It should buy me a few more days of peace. Hopefully. Maybe by then she'll have found something else, someone else, to feed her need to manipulate and control.

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Oh Imp. I'm sorry.

 

On one side it seems like she's still got a hold of you because you are treading water out of fear of what she will do in regards to Wolf's job. The "angry-daughter-who-IS-NOT-taking-this" part of me says to march on into the office and BE HONEST with the boss. Then you won't have to worry so much?

 

But then the "wife-who-wants-hubby-to-succeed-and-I'd-really-appreciate-that-pay-raise" part says to just lay low until the deal is done.

 

I really don't know what to suggest because I know the fear and the worrying about what "someone" might do to get back at a person for standing up to them. It's just so awful.

 

You bring up the CPS thing a lot--could you go have a talk with them about the situation? (I'd imagine CPS would understand mentally ill mothers quite well.)

 

I'm the kind of person who likes to cover all my bases just so I can live my life without fear. Honesty has yet to bite me in the butt.

 

Keep records. Definitely keep records. Who knows if she tracks you down in ten years? Records are good. I think the idea of having her emails go immediately to a specific folder are great as well. ('Cuz you know she won't remember ever having written anything like what you're saying she wrote...)

 

The way I see it:

1. Suck it up (said in that dreary, horrible tone of voice; not the trite and patronizing tone of voice) and keep her placated for a few weeks until the job goes through. Yes, she will have gotten what she wants for a few weeks, but then you'll disappear off of the planet and it will no longer matter. And hubby will have the job!

 

-or-

 

2. Cover your bases with all the people/agencies (boss, CPS, restraining order) she may call out of spite and then do whatever it is that you're planning on doing to drive that last nail into the relationship coffin. Because she's &%$#-ing with your husband being able to get a job! Seriously, that's so messed up!

 

(I personally wouldn't go with the email or the letter because then she has that tangible thing to hold onto and fixate upon...verbal can't be preserved in the same way. Although tangible does serve a good purpose of proving exactly what you said instead of the twisted conversation that a person can invent over years of stewing. And Certified Mail does tilt the argument in your favor.)

 

I hope you can figure something out that will afford you the most peace over the matter. You are strong.

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Oh Imp. I'm sorry.

 

On one side it seems like she's still got a hold of you because you are treading water out of fear of what she will do in regards to Wolf's job. The "angry-daughter-who-IS-NOT-taking-this" part of me says to march on into the office and BE HONEST with the boss. Then you won't have to worry so much?

 

But then the "wife-who-wants-hubby-to-succeed-and-I'd-really-appreciate-that-pay-raise" part says to just lay low until the deal is done.

 

I really don't know what to suggest because I know the fear and the worrying about what "someone" might do to get back at a person for standing up to them. It's just so awful.

 

You bring up the CPS thing a lot--could you go have a talk with them about the situation? (I'd imagine CPS would understand mentally ill mothers quite well.)

 

I'm the kind of person who likes to cover all my bases just so I can live my life without fear. Honesty has yet to bite me in the butt.

 

Keep records. Definitely keep records. Who knows if she tracks you down in ten years? Records are good. I think the idea of having her emails go immediately to a specific folder are great as well. ('Cuz you know she won't remember ever having written anything like what you're saying she wrote...)

 

The way I see it:

1. Suck it up (said in that dreary, horrible tone of voice; not the trite and patronizing tone of voice) and keep her placated for a few weeks until the job goes through. Yes, she will have gotten what she wants for a few weeks, but then you'll disappear off of the planet and it will no longer matter. And hubby will have the job!

 

-or-

 

2. Cover your bases with all the people/agencies (boss, CPS, restraining order) she may call out of spite and then do whatever it is that you're planning on doing to drive that last nail into the relationship coffin. Because she's &%$#-ing with your husband being able to get a job! Seriously, that's so messed up!

 

(I personally wouldn't go with the email or the letter because then she has that tangible thing to hold onto and fixate upon...verbal can't be preserved in the same way. Although tangible does serve a good purpose of proving exactly what you said instead of the twisted conversation that a person can invent over years of stewing. And Certified Mail does tilt the argument in your favor.)

 

I hope you can figure something out that will afford you the most peace over the matter. You are strong.

You're absolutely right, it's the wife part that is running the show right now. I'm going to suggest that Wolf tells his boss (the cool one that's leaving) that his nutbunny of a MIL *might* try to cause trouble.

 

CPS only concerns me re: being a hs'er. All it takes is one person w/a dislike of hsing to cause some issues. I'm not worried about my parenting at all.

 

She's used the threat of CPS against me before...but I was a single mom there, living w/in a 10 min drive of her. I was so convinced that I was useless, lazy, stupid, a bad person, a bad mom that the very idea terrified me and produced instant results for her.

 

I've come to realize, of course, that I'm none of those things. When you're forced, from the time you're about 5, to repeat, "I'm nobody. I'm nothing." over and over again for yrs, you believe it. Now I don't. Mostly, anyways. :lol: There's a part of me that flinches just typing that.

 

I just want to be left alone. *sigh*

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I'm so sorry for the pain of the journey that lead you to this point.

 

I think your instinct to ignore her is your best guide. If any response escalates her demands, she will be dissatisfied with anything you do.

 

Pull up the drawbridge, fill the moat with piranhas and march on. If Wolf can caution his current boss, all the better. If she calls CPS, she will no longer have that threat to hold over your head. You know you are doing a good job. They will see it as well. Document the threats. Keep the emails and voicemails. Should CPS show up at your door, show them.

 

If you can change your phone number, do it. Create a new email address and begin to share it with your contacts. Let the old address become a spam address and ignore it.

 

Best of luck to you. :grouphug:

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No, you've nailed it.

 

thank you for understanding

 

Yes. I've gotten several books, incl Boundaries by the same authors, and more waiting at the library. Their statement that 'forgiveness does not equal reconcilliation' was a huge lightbulb for me.

 

One of the good things about living provinces apart is that she cannot sue for Gpa Rights. She'd have to a) prove that one of us is dead b) prove that we're seperated/divorced, c) that she's been an ongoing part of our children's lives, and d) file here in my province, as any orders made in her her province cannot be enforced here. Family law is provincial.

 

Basically, she's SOL in terms of Gpa Rights. I checked into it thoroughly, as part of my path to making this decision.

 

My concern is, shooting her an email now proves to her that her actions prompt desired behaviour on my part. How much worse would it get later, when I cease all communication?

 

I just don't honestly know if it would be worth the few wks of peace we may get. B/c I *do* know that I'm totally, completely, and utterly done w/this relationship. I can't spend the rest of my life humouring her to keep her from trying to destroy me. And, make no mistake...a brief email is going to prompt a barrage of venom b/c I didn't jump and run before now. She gets an email, she's going to call, and expect/demand I answer. When I don't...things are just going to escalate the second I don't respond the way she demands.

 

I just really feel at the end of my rope, like I simply cannot choke one more moment of her down.

 

 

Right now a few weeks might be a good thing until you have the job settled.

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My concern is, shooting her an email now proves to her that her actions prompt desired behaviour on my part. How much worse would it get later, when I cease all communication?

 

I just don't honestly know if it would be worth the few wks of peace we may get. B/c I *do* know that I'm totally, completely, and utterly done w/this relationship. I can't spend the rest of my life humouring her to keep her from trying to destroy me. And, make no mistake...a brief email is going to prompt a barrage of venom b/c I didn't jump and run before now. She gets an email, she's going to call, and expect/demand I answer. When I don't...things are just going to escalate the second I don't respond the way she demands.

 

I just really feel at the end of my rope, like I simply cannot choke one more moment of her down.

 

Then there will be a record of the craziness for CPS. If you can't handle her venom, send the short email, and then don't open the response. Block her email after that if you need to. Just get the one out there "for the record" and ignore everything else until the job promo. (Although, if she thinks you're on vacation, maybe that will give you the time you need!)

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yeah, I'm going to wait and see how long the vaca excuse she's come up w/holds.

 

If she gets out of control, then I'll send a cease and desist.

 

I don't deserve to live in fear and dread. I never did deserve that, and I'm not willing to do so anymore.

 

I need to claim my right to live a peaceful life, w/out her horrid behaviours and cruelties.

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How does she know enough about your Dh's work to be able to track him down to a company address or phone number?

 

I'm with you, though. We had a friend who was a compulsive liar or sociopath or something. We actually didn't realize it for years because we weren't her primary targets. One day, the Eye of Sauron turned on us and she went all stalkery and nutso. It took us a few years to sever every tie completely. In comparing notes later, different friends had such different stories it's like she wasn't even one person. Freaky, but having her out of our lives lifted more weight than I even realized was there.

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Here's the thing that you seem to be missing:

 

This was NOT an easy decision.

 

I doubt you're going to change the minds of the people in this thread that are telling you that you are making a mistake. Don't let their responses upset you more than you already are. Let them go, shake your head and say 'tsk tsk tsk'.

 

My mom has done some scary things, probably not as bad as your mom. But there is simply a huge difference between reading about someone's experience and living the experience yourself.

 

And then you have to allow for the people who say they've BTDT and managed to get through and oh how happy they are that they didn't do anything drastic. Remember the bean dip. It works for this too.

 

:grouphug::grouphug:

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Yeah, it's not his current position that concerns me, it's the promo. Dealing w/a nutbar MIL might be construed as being unable to handle even more on his plate.

 

She just called again. Now she's decided that I must be away, since I haven't jumped and run to the phone to return her calls. That's the only plausible reason.

 

Whatever. It should buy me a few more days of peace. Hopefully. Maybe by then she'll have found something else, someone else, to feed her need to manipulate and control.

 

I am missing a piece of the puzzle here. Wolf will be working for the same company if he receives promotion, right? It is a well-known company, so what is ever to stop her from contacting his employer? I think someone mentioned earlier talking to human resources to notify them of unstable mentally ill relative who possibly may attempt to contact your husband through employer. I was wondering how she even knows who Wolf's employer is.

 

I was wondering if maybe a prophylactic call to police and social services may put you at ease before cutting off contact.

 

I do believe it probably is a wise move to cut off contact with her. But what about your son that she raised (I may be confusing you with someone else)? How does he feel about her? If he felt a bond with her and maintained contact, that would be the only thread that would keep me hanging in there with brief superficial contact (BSC) by phone or email that I could control. Twocents' post offered wise advice about interactions with troublesome relatives.

 

Controlled BSC is the only method of communication with my troubled relative that I can engage in yet remain calm and centered. Cutting off contact is not an option for me because of certain circumstances.

 

Personally I would not want to give her the satisfaction of tearing apart siblings unless those siblings behaved in an ongoing hurtful manner toward you. Have you reached out to them lately? Sometimes it is just too painful to rehash past; maybe you could have a friendly neighborly type relationship with your siblings.

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How does she know enough about your Dh's work to be able to track him down to a company address or phone number?

 

I'm with you, though. We had a friend who was a compulsive liar or sociopath or something. We actually didn't realize it for years because we weren't her primary targets. One day, the Eye of Sauron turned on us and she went all stalkery and nutso. It took us a few years to sever every tie completely. In comparing notes later, different friends had such different stories it's like she wasn't even one person. Freaky, but having her out of our lives lifted more weight than I even realized was there.

 

:tongue_smilie: I can relate! When the troubled person in my life introduces me to one of her new "friends," I can immediately sense whether she has told terrible lies about me to them by the look in their eyes, their body language, etc. We once had a frightening unsettling incident when one of her equally troubled "friends" decided that he should be her knight in shining armor and protect her from evil me.

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Here's the thing that you seem to be missing:

 

This was NOT an easy decision. At all. I wish it could be different. But unless and until you deal w/a sociopath, you really can't understand how this decision can be the only option you have, to keep both yourself and your children safe.

 

This isn't a matter of simply disagreeing on something. This is a matter of ongoing manipulation and abuse. Lies, and threats, and manipulation. Dealing w/someone that has no problem threatening you w/CPS simply b/c you disagree w/them or are making moves to extricate yourself from them.

 

You truly don't understand how dangerous and cruel a person whose a sociopath can be. Count yourself lucky. Very, very lucky.

 

I'd give anything not to be making this choice. I've *tried* everything to keep it from getting to this point. I've forgiven past issues that I could have involved the police in. I've made excuses, time and again, for her behaviour. Over and over again, I've blamed myself for her actions. If only I were a better dd, if only I hadn't moved so far away, if only, if only, if only.

 

Finally, I've educated myself on the situation, and realized that you simply can NOT have a healthy relationship w/someone like this. Any attempts to discuss issues are met w/"That didn't happen" or "You're remembering wrong" or "I don't remember that" or "You're too sensitive" or, "We are NOT discussing this!"

 

Never, ever, is there any acknowledgement of her making a mistake, being at fault, nada. Ever. It's ALWAYS something wrong w/me. You cannot possibly have a healthy relationship w/someone that insists they never do anything wrong, that it's always everyone else that is the problem. It just cannot be done.

 

And you cannot continously live in fear that if you p!ss her off, she's going to call CPS or the police on you to make you get back in line. Or call your dh's work to cause trouble. Nobody should have to live that way.

 

I know my kids are witnessing this. And I sincerely hope, that if nothing else, they learn that NOBODY has the right to abuse them, related or not. That they are worthy of being treated w/respect.

 

No blame here! I'm sorry that I seemed to hit a nerve. I merely thought about that letter I had read and mentioned her regret, that's all.

 

Please accept my apologies.

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Mrs Mungo: I'm sorry, but I agree with LL and Chucki.

 

 

 

No, I get it. I do. However, what I also *know* is that ignoring her will only agitate the situation. She'll hire a private detective, she'll call the police and file a missing persons report, she'll call CPS, she'll sue for grandparents rights, etc. She'll do any or all of those things, even if you move and don't give her your info.

 

 

Yeah, this is exactly what I'm thinking, with the personality type you have described.

 

Sending brief notes as opposed to seeing you or talking to you might not make her less annoyed, but it will likely keep social services and the police off of your back.

 

 

Yes. One can only hope.

 

eta: Just to be clear-I don't think you owe her anything. I think you owe yourself the easiest path possible. Personally, I think the above is the easier path. JMO.

 

 

Totally agreed. Something I've taught my kids is to always "Remember your Objective." The goal here is to get through the young years with the kids without dangerous interference.

 

Of course, you should simultaneously DOCUMENT all contact. I would and let everyone in your house know where you are keeping it. I hope you never need it, but documentation made at the time of an event is sometimes admissible in court.

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How does she know enough about your Dh's work to be able to track him down to a company address or phone number?

 

I'm with you, though. We had a friend who was a compulsive liar or sociopath or something. We actually didn't realize it for years because we weren't her primary targets. One day, the Eye of Sauron turned on us and she went all stalkery and nutso. It took us a few years to sever every tie completely. In comparing notes later, different friends had such different stories it's like she wasn't even one person. Freaky, but having her out of our lives lifted more weight than I even realized was there.

First time she called after Wolf got the job (she'd ignored us the entire time...never called to ask if we'd heard anything, what was up...I had threads here of ppl asking me, "anything yet?" but dead silence from her) was in response to me sending out a mass email and bcc'ing her on it w/our new contact info. I'd called and left 4 msgs prior to that, trying to tell her he got the job, we were moving, but she never called back, so I finally included her in the email.

 

Anyways. Wolf answered the phone (which pretty much never happens) and talked to her, likely heading off her blowing a fit over finding out via email we were moving. He went into detail about the job, b/c, lets face it, he was proud, happy, and very excited.

 

So yeah, she knows where he works.

 

Thanks everyone, for the support. It's really appreciated.

 

I really wish I wasn't in this situation, and that I wasn't needing support through something like this, but it is what it is, right?

 

thanks to all of you :grouphug:

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I get it. I do. However, what I also *know* is that ignoring her will only agitate the situation. She'll hire a private detective, she'll call the police and file a missing persons report, she'll call CPS, she'll sue for grandparents rights, etc. She'll do any or all of those things, even if you move and don't give her your info.

 

Sending brief notes as opposed to seeing you or talking to you might not make her less annoyed, but it will likely keep social services and the police off of your back.

 

eta: Just to be clear-I don't think you owe her anything. I think you owe yourself the easiest path possible. Personally, I think the above is the easier path. JMO.

 

My mother is NPD, and I agree with Mrs. Mungo. You mentioned earlier that you don't have the stamina to go through a drama with your mom right now, and I so totally GET THAT, but the thing is: what you're doing is feeding a drama, and possibly escalating it into something even more crazy than you expect.

 

My mother once sent police looking for me when she couldn't get ahold of me. It was a ridiculous thing to do, given that we'd just moved into a new apartment over a holiday weekend, and the phones weren't hooked up, but she did it anyway. And for a nice 36-hour period, she got to be the Star Of Her Own Trauma: The Mother Whose Daughter Might Be Missing! Seriously. She milked it for all it was worth. It quickly downgraded into the Mother Whose Daughter NEVER CALLS, but still, she had a fun weekend.

 

I'd like nothing better than to go no contact with my mother, but it would feed the flames worse that way. She would become the WRONGED MOTHER. I refuse to let her have that. So, I keep my contact low, and I use tricks I learned in therapy when I have to talk to her, to keep myself from going nuts. Things like mirroring (repeating what she says back to me, instead of defending myself regarding what she said), short answers only, and logic traps that create corners she can't back out of.

 

You might want to reconsider the no-contact thing, because there may be a better way to diffuse her via a low contact method. This no contact route seems to be backfiring.

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My mother is NPD, and I agree with Mrs. Mungo. You mentioned earlier that you don't have the stamina to go through a drama with your mom right now, and I so totally GET THAT, but the thing is: what you're doing is feeding a drama, and possibly escalating it into something even more crazy than you expect.

 

My mother once sent police looking for me when she couldn't get ahold of me. It was a ridiculous thing to do, given that we'd just moved into a new apartment over a holiday weekend, and the phones weren't hooked up, but she did it anyway. And for a nice 36-hour period, she got to be the Star Of Her Own Trauma: The Mother Whose Daughter Might Be Missing! Seriously. She milked it for all it was worth. It quickly downgraded into the Mother Whose Daughter NEVER CALLS, but still, she had a fun weekend.

 

I'd like nothing better than to go no contact with my mother, but it would feed the flames worse that way. She would become the WRONGED MOTHER. I refuse to let her have that. So, I keep my contact low, and I use tricks I learned in therapy when I have to talk to her, to keep myself from going nuts. Things like mirroring (repeating what she says back to me, instead of defending myself regarding what she said), short answers only, and logic traps that create corners she can't back out of.

 

You might want to reconsider the no-contact thing, because there may be a better way to diffuse her via a low contact method. This no contact route seems to be backfiring.

 

:iagree:

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A PP mentioned that unless you've dealt with this kind of person in your life, you honestly have no idea the level of torture they can wreak upon your family, emotional & physical well-being, spiritual well-being, etc. Boy is that true.

My mother was psychotic and likely paranoid/delusional schizophrenic in addition. She was also one of those persons who delighted in telling others how much she was suffering, and she had no problem hauling out private stuff saying "oh I'm so blessed that my child hates me" or "I'm so blessed that one of my children died", and my favourite (said to someone IN the room w/ me when I'd just been taken off life-support as I was improving) "I'm so blessed Pauline is going to die. everyone will pity me. I have already planned the funeral." If I'd not just been taken off life support and been as weak as a newborn kitten, I'm not sure I wouldn't have killed her for that! As it was, I wrote a note in cap letters for her to leave the room and NEVER return.

 

There's no family to talk to about it. None of us sibs talk to ea other...I've discovered that she's deliberately lied to ea of us to keep us apart.

 

That describes much of my life. Until I had an explosion at my 3 sisters when we were all at the table (w/ Mom & Dad out of the house), none of us realized what had been happening for longer than I had been alive. The intensity and depravity of the lies was astounding. We spent easily a couple dozen hours over the next few weeks trying to unravel the lies that had pit us against each other. We salvaged our relationship (well, 2 of the 3 plus myself), and we mourned that which we had lost, and had to just leave the past there, in the past.

I confronted her 2 yrs later, after I'd been away (17hr drive) for a year. I did it in front of the 3rd sister. The lies that continued to come out of her mouth astounded me. My sister stood there w/ her mouth hanging open, but she still defended her.

 

I don't honestly know if she'll give up any time soon. She loses her mind when told no...esp w/me, for some reason. My brothers, she tolerates them telling her no (while running to all and sundry for sympathy and to tell her tales of woe), but w/me, she has no problem going for broke. No brakes at all.

 

Yup. One of my ex-BF was at our wedding, as a bouncer. He was in the wedding party so he had unfettered access to her, and had clear rules that if she got out of line, she was to be escorted from the church by whatever means necessary. Mom even had the gall to mention to him that she should have just knocked my then-hubby over, and had the ex-BF take his place!

 

After I took a couple of head shots from her (literally) I made sure to never be in the same room w/ her w/o a 'protector'. I was told at that point to make boundaries and let her know them, and just walk away. It was both the hardest thing ever (only made easier by the fact my father was no longer at home, and was in an assisted care facility and doing a 1,000,000 times better as a result), and the best thing ever.

 

I don't have anyone in my life that could be used as a go btwn. I'm going to talk to Wolf about changing our ph#...but I'm really worried about her being able to track down his work/boss and attempt to screw him that way.

 

She changed her ph# then berated me & hubby for not calling. After that call, which occurred around the time I was told to cease all contact w/ her, hubby answered the phone. I was given a "vamoose" gesture, and he'd be able to honestly say I was not around at the moment and he would give me the message.

Mom did call my other two sisters to try and get them to 'speak to me and get me to call her, she missed me' but they both told her that was not going to happen. And my eldest sister actually told her that she was NOT going to inform me that I was being sought after.

The one time that I *know* she visited my father where he was staying, she was deliberately cruel to him in front of the entire family (shortly before he died). She had nothing to do w/ the planning of everything when he did, and boy did she make us pay for THAT.

When my sister (that 3rd one) got ill, I got a voicemail "your sister has cancer, she is going to die. call me". Yeah, same voice mail my other two sisters got. When my sister died 4.5 mo later, I got that voicemail "your sister is dead". This time mom had all the planning at her behest, and I've never been to a more hideous, ostentatious affair in my life. And listening to her talk to people at the visitations was horrific. To her point of view, she was next in line to Mary, the mother of Jesus, for sainthood and we were horrid children, and her husband had been horrid, and the only one of her children who EVER loved her was now dead.

The only reason myself (and my other two sisters) got any notification of mom being ill, and eventually dying, was because we had all left notes w/ the nurses to call us. My nephew (who was taking care of her) didn't counter-act those. He said it was the only way it could work as she was asking him NOT to tell us anything.

 

As horrid as it sounds, the news that she was dead took a burden from me that I can not describe. My therapist & my pastor both said that it was the start of a new life for me. My complaint was that she had to wait until 4.5yrs after my father died, meaning I never got time w/o her around/over our heads.

 

So, I **SO** get what you are enduring. We had already been talking w/ a lawyer before she got sick, regarding means by which we could limit her having contact with us. Unfortunately, as he was so kind to point out, restraining orders in Canada carry almost as much weight as the physical paper upon which they are written.

He suggested a document being sent to her priest and the diocese office 'suggesting' she cut off contact from us. I don't know if there's an option there like that for you? It need not be a legal document, from what our lawyer told us - just a note from a pastor regarding the fact that she is "making your life path unlivable" and that "any contact should cease" and "tell her WHATEVER you want to get her to stop contacting us". We had spoken w/ our pastor regarding this, and he agreed it was likely one of the things that could work. I would have already have had it done had there been children of mine in the picture at the time.

Talk w/ a pastor, yours, someone else's, ANY. See what can be done on that end. As children of God we are to honour our parents, yes, but they are NOT to anger us to them. Both sides of that have to exist, and obviously she's not holding up her end of the bargain.

 

Prayers and :grouphug: for you.

 

btw - our pastor had said that if we'd lived a bit further away, faking leaving the country/continent/planet would have been considered reasonable. So, yeah, sometimes you really do have to take hideously drastic steps.

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I'd like nothing better than to go no contact with my mother, but it would feed the flames worse that way. She would become the WRONGED MOTHER. I refuse to let her have that. So, I keep my contact low, and I use tricks I learned in therapy when I have to talk to her, to keep myself from going nuts. Things like mirroring (repeating what she says back to me, instead of defending myself regarding what she said), short answers only, and logic traps that create corners she can't back out of.

 

You might want to reconsider the no-contact thing, because there may be a better way to diffuse her via a low contact method. This no contact route seems to be backfiring.

 

We tried that.

After her hitting every abuse button she'd programmed in me, repeatedly, to the point of driving me to near-suicide, my therapist & pastor both told me she was poison to me, and her drama queen/martyr complex issues were a backseat to my continued life. It had come to a point where the years of abuse while living under her roof had added abuse as an adult (head shots that left me concussed), and the emotional toll had be just about past the breaking point. My husband honestly feared for my life.

There are no easy or even reasonable solutions to a situation of this level. The solution for me was when she finally died. Yeah, I had the sadness that my mother had died, and I no longer had a living parent. But, I also had the relief that her torture of me was over. And that is never something a child should ever feel.

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, I had the sadness that my mother had died, and I no longer had a living parent. But, I also had the relief that her torture of me was over. And that is never something a child should ever feel.

:grouphug: I remember my mother's relief when my grandmother died. she also told me she didn't feel sad at all. dh had joked to me about doing a grave dance to the tune of "ding dong the wicked witch is dead". I didn't, but I could laught at the thought.

 

how fortuante you were able to unravel many of the manipulations that seperated you from your sisters. It was years before I realized that it was my grandmother's machinations that were between my sister and myself. sadly, my brother turned out NPD (and married women just like her - twice).

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Oh Impish... From the daughter of one narcissistic/sociopathic mother to another... I feel for you. I could take you down memory lane through a highlight reel for you- and to prove to the nay-Sayers that this type of egg donor most certainly does exist. It would make toes curl, and I am sure some would think it was so nuts that I must be making it all up... especially since she is such a good and holy Christian woman and all. None of my friends "get it" and truly, I hope they never will. That sort of depraved mind is impossible to "get", and the only reason we have some understanding is because we lived it. Anyway- hugs to you. I know how many cycles of trying, setting boundaries, getting mad, getting sad, feeling like a bad person, horrible Christian, etc etc that you have been through. And I would like to offer a whole-hearted congratulations for the decision that you have made. Life *is* better on the other side. I promise. You do doubt the decision, but then your DH will remind you: "yes, it was that bad" and you will move on. Hugs and congratulations on your life. A normal mother would be so proud of you.

On to helpful BTDT on the current delimma: I put mine on the freeze after I finally made my decision. Just cut it all off (it took 2 priests and a counselor to get me there! Lol!!). I changed phone numbers, the whole bit. She started calling my work which was with a very well known international company. I picked up once (after 33, yes 33 calls) because my boss told me to... And I told her to not call there again. I got security involved and they blocked her number (which was a feat because I worked at the HQ in a high level department). I thought all was well. 48 hours later, she started in from a different number... She began harassing the VP's (!) personal assistant about why was I not "doing my job and answering my phone? By the end of the day, I was pulled in to the VP's office and sadly let go. He told me I was a great employee and so sad to do this- but he didn't see an end in sight as my mother could keep at this from alternative phone numbers all day long. Her behavior was taking up too much time and company resource and clogging company lines to our department. He told me he knew it wasn't fair... But it had to be done. He did give me a nice severance package because he felt so bad (I was due none- I hadn't worked there but for a year)... But the end result? I was canned.

Do WHATEVER you have to do until Wolf gets his promotion. You guys need this promotion (hell who doesn't!?! Lol) Even if it is placating her and picking up the phone. Take a Quaalude, do a vodka shot, whatever- to get yourself through it. Once he has the promotion, then send the cease and desist. She WILL go nuts and you will have to get a restraining order. It's just how these women work. But her going nuts between the C&D and RO could cost him this promotion if the timing is not right.

Just my two cents. Its your life and decisions... Of course. And only you know how much more abuse you can handle. Just keep an eye on the prize. And *know* that yes, you are doing the right thing!!!

My prayers are with you. I know how hard every decision will be at the beginning of disconnecting.... But truly, truly- the peaceful life you will have... So worth it!!!!

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Oh Impish... From the daughter of one narcissistic/sociopathic mother to another... I feel for you. I could take you down memory lane through a highlight reel for you- and to prove to the nay-Sayers that this type of egg donor most certainly does exist. It would make toes curl, and I am sure some would think it was so nuts that I must be making it all up... especially since she is such a good and holy Christian woman and all. None of my friends "get it" and truly, I hope they never will. That sort of depraved mind is impossible to "get", and the only reason we have some understanding is because we lived it. Anyway- hugs to you. I know how many cycles of trying, setting boundaries, getting mad, getting sad, feeling like a bad person, horrible Christian, etc etc that you have been through. And I would like to offer a whole-hearted congratulations for the decision that you have made. Life *is* better on the other side. I promise. You do doubt the decision, but then your DH will remind you: "yes, it was that bad" and you will move on. Hugs and congratulations on your life. A normal mother would be so proud of you.

 

I could have written this. And like you, Unscripted, my friends really didn't get it until one stayed over for a few days b/c of complex issues making it impossible for us to study at her home. Once the exams were over, my friend commented "Wow, your mom is a nasty piece of work. I'd call her a wing-nut, but that would insult wing-nuts!"

 

Too many of us understand this.

:grouphug:

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:grouphug: I remember my mother's relief when my grandmother died. she also told me she didn't feel sad at all. dh had joked to me about doing a grave dance to the tune of "ding dong the wicked witch is dead". I didn't, but I could laught at the thought.

 

I'm not proud, I will honestly say that I did express those sentiments, more than once. I also said "good riddance". Not a Christian attitude, but my pastor said it likely helped my healing. My therapist had me repeat it "Ding Dong, the witch is dead" about a dozen times. He said it was to release the spiritual hooks she had into me and my life. He (and a couple other therapists together) then literally had me write up everything horrid I remembered, and bound ALL of them away from me, and burnt the list. My pastor just hugged the stuffing out of me when I told him that. "Doesn't the freedom feel awesome? Rejoice!"

 

Sometimes I look back for a microsecond, and question if it was that bad. Then I remember my lack of self-esteem, self-worth, etc., that I lived with. Yeah, it was.

 

Imp, hon, do *WHATEVER* you need to do to keep safe. Keep her venom from the children by whatever means necessary. And hold on tight to that awesome hubby you have. You know the truth, you know what she has done, and you know what you have overcome. Stand strong in that truth and in your DAILY victory to not be her whipping girl.

You are loved, and you have a LOT of us in prayer for you and over you & your family. Draw on that. I count it a privilege to pray for you.

 

:grouphug:

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I so feel for you Impish. And for the posters who share this life story. I am sad for my mom who lived it. I am sad every time I think of her almost 90 year old mother passing, and the feelings of guilt she will have because she will somehow feel relief and happiness. I truly cannot imagine having to bare the memories of growing up in a home like that.

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Thank you to everyone that's given me support.

 

I'm so sorry that any of you understand the situation I'm in. I wish nobody did. :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

Well, she called again today. x2. I refuse to even listen to the vm. I'm having far too joyous a day w/the incredible rings Wolf bought me that I refuse to allow her to taint any of it.

 

I did share a giggle w/Wolf though. It occurred to me that it's too bad that I'd started down the NC path already.

 

If she saw my rings, she'd sh!t a brick, turn Shrek green, puke, pee her pants and faint from jealousy.

 

She's an extreme jewelry person. She still complains that she picked out 3 diff wedding sets, and dad bought her the cheapest one. She's had them redone at least 3x now. And she demands jewelry all the time, bragging that she has enough rings to wear one on every finger, if not 2.

 

When my eldest brother got engaged, she slagged the ring to me. "He doesn't understand the difference btwn QUALITY and QUANTITY! It's big, but it's so dull. It doesn't sparkle at all. Much better to have a smaller, high quality stone than that!"

 

Uh...ring sparkled just fine. It was just much bigger than hers!

 

And, frankly, what Wolf bought me today is much nicer than anything she has, despite the revamps over and over again. It would sooooooooooooo tick her off.

 

I'm not allowed to have anything as nice as her yanno. And *nicer*?! All holy hades would break loose no doubt.

 

She'd truly be furious. She's shown that before when I've accomplished things she hadn't, like graduating college. Church wedding (how slow am I that I just realized that was def part of the reason that she refused to come to my wedding?! She claimed $ at the time, but then bragged about spending 3x as much to attend my cousin's a short time after, I always knew it wasn't a $ issue, and just now I figured out that SHE had never had a church wedding, either time, w/the dress, veil, etc. No WONDER she didn't show!)

 

And, as fun as it might be to picture that look on her face...no, I'm not going to email her info on my rings. I'm trying not to kick the hornets nest! :lol:

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I'm not proud, I will honestly say that I did express those sentiments, more than once. I also said "good riddance". Not a Christian attitude, but my pastor said it likely helped my healing.

 

Sometimes I look back for a microsecond, and question if it was that bad. Then I remember my lack of self-esteem, self-worth, etc., that I lived with. Yeah, it was.

 

Imp, hon, do *WHATEVER* you need to do to keep safe. Keep her venom from the children by whatever means necessary.

:iagree: absolutely with the bolded! they can reach down the generations if given a chance. My only-child mother was too damaged to protect us from her mother, and we were reared to think her opinion was the cat's meow.
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She's not certain I have internet. Last time I actually spoke to her was when I was still waiting for it. So, she seems to be calling instead.

 

Honestly, she's called more this wk than since Jan. :glare:

 

Kinda sad when you realize that = 5x

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