Poor eye contact

[herekittykitty]

Does anyone else's DC have poor eye contact, but no ASD diagnosis? I'm asking because right now this is the case for DS7. He is quite reciprocal with conversation with others, but rarely makes good eye contact. His eyes are constantly scanning, looking around, taking things in. He is incredibly interested in the world. I think he can read expressions quite well - if he actually looks at the person. But because he doesn't, he can miss their cues.

 

He had a neuropsych eval last winter and I specifically asked the psychologist about Aspergers or PDD-NOS, but he didn't think so - and remarked even it he did it would be very mild. I guess I'm just wondering if poor eye contact is usually associated with just ASD or if it's also related to dyslexia and ADD - which he is diagnosed with. He struggles with visual attention and is in vision therapy right now.

 

I think deep down and I am wondering if Aspergers or PDD really do fit? I asked his OT what she thought too - just because she also works with quite a few kids on the spectrum either, and she also didn't think so. He does not have obsessive interests. He does tend to be a poor judge of social relationships - ie will refer to people as his really good friends or a best friend who he doesn't know very well. He will often describe playing "with" someone when it's really more like playing along side them. He is highly verbal and loves word related jokes, puns. He is very emotionally sensitive and shows a lot of empathy for other people and animals. He seems to like other kids well enough and they seem to like him, but it's like making those closer bonds is hard. He seems to play well with his younger sister's friends (age 5).

 

Any thoughts on any of this?

[TippyCanoe]

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[Dandelion]

I agree that poor eye contact can be caused by a number of different factors. It can also be purely physiological.

 

My DS is diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome, and did have the stereotypical poor eye contact when he was younger. However, he now has completely normal eye contact. I attribute the improvement to cod liver oil - his eye contact began improving a few weeks after we started giving him 1 Tbsp of cod liver oil every morning.

 

Following is an excerpt from the book "Healing the New Childhood Epidemics: Autism, ADHD, Asthma, and Allergies" by Dr. Kenneth Bock that talks about the connection between cod liver oil/Vitamin A and the "autistic gaze" (p.262):

 

"Vitamin A is frequently low in autistics, and this deficiency accounts for some of the vision problems that are common in autistic kids. The deficiency affects the eyes' cones and rods, and contributes to the tendency of autistic kids to rely upon their peripheral vision. This reliance - the classic autistic sideways gaze - often results in poor eye contact. This symptom is still considered by many doctors to be a purely psychological trait, indicating emotional avoidance, which has no physiological component. However, this perspective appears to be out of date, because the condition frequently improves with the administration of cod liver oil."

 

If you're not already giving cod liver oil, that might be worth a shot. We use Carlson Norwegian Cod Liver Oil (based on my research, that seems to be one of the better quality cod liver oils out there).

[razorbackmama]

This sounds so incredibly simplistic, but could he just need practice? I have noticed that my kids have a tendency to not look at people who are speaking to them. They are extremely neurotypical...I think simply because we've never really "required" it, they've never really done it. So I've been trying to remind them to look at people that are talking to them and let them know that it's rude not to.

 

Now, I'll also say that while I can look at someone while they are speaking, I find it very difficult to look them in the eye while I am speaking. It's difficult for me to concentrate on what I'm saying. I also feel very self-conscious. Particularly if they have any sort of "issue" - once a psychiatrist I went to had something wrong with his eyes so they shook constantly (can't remember what it's called). I couldn't look at him at ALL when I talked!:001_huh:

[houseofkids&pets]

Ds9 has poor eye contact too. He will orient his body toward a speaker, but his eyes are everywhere but on the speaker. He has been diagnosed with social anxiety, as well as dyslexia, dyscalculia, and dysgraphia. We discuss eye contact with ds all of the time, but it is really difficult for him, even with familiar people.

 

BTW, ds12 does have autism.

 

Thanks for the info on cod liver oil. I will also have to get the Eides book from the library again.

[Hwin]

Perhaps you should get a referral to a developmental pediatrician? Some of the behaviors you mention are characteristic of autism, but it really depends on the extent.

[Dmmetler]

My DD7 is similar, and has been tested for an ASD twice-in part because of eye contact. In her case, it seems to be mostly anxiety related-that is, she has NO trouble maintaining eye contact when she's comfortable in a situation, but does when it's a strange adult, an authority figure and she thinks she might be in trouble, and when there are multiple people talking at the same time. In many ways, her behavior reminds me of some of the students I've taught who are from cultures where you don't maintain eye contact with authority figures, but do with peers.

[onaclairadeluna]

With my dyslexic son eye aversion gets worse when he is struggling to retrieve words. He also has sensory processing (and visual processing) issues and I think he gets some overload there which makes eye contact harder for him.

 

He has been practicing and is getting better at this.

[razorbackmama]

With my dyslexic son eye aversion gets worse when he is struggling to retrieve words. He also has sensory processing (and visual processing) issues and I think he gets some overload there which makes eye contact harder for him.

 

He has been practicing and is getting better at this.

Oh yeah, boy, if I am struggling with concentration on something or word retrieval...you can FORGET about me making eye contact. Totally. I might glance at you now and then, but if I have to THINK about something, there is no way I'll be able to look at you continually. And I don't have any sort of learning/developmental issue outside of the occasional brain fog caused by too little sleep and/or hypothyroidism. LOL

[PeterPan]

My ds with speech problems does that. Did the np give *any* diagnosis then that could explain it? With adhd they'll look away because they're thinking. I've wondered if my ds will end up with an adhd label at some point, but I don't know.

[Walking-Iris]

I can think of a ton of reasons off hand that would cause any one to avert their gaze. My oldset ds is dx'ed pdd-nos and he never had had the gaze aversion too much, but he did do (still does) the sideways peripheral stimming. That was one of his main red flags when he was younger, "flying" toys towards his eyes sideways and then grimacing.

 

I agree with a pp that those behaviors improved with a supplement of omegas with A.

 

My 4 year old has a really hard time looking people in the eye. And yet there's nothing else about his behavior that is a concern---except it wouldn't surprise me in the least if he would be dx'ed with ADHD if I pursued that. :tongue_smilie:

 

Anxiety can also cause gaze aversion. My oldest also has ocd as well and the times he doesn't look at people I know it's more because of worry/anxiety/nervousness than anything else.

 

I tend to focus on other things while listening but keep eye contact while I'm talking. Not completely though. I don't know why---think better that way I guess. I also have a hard time looking at people that I'm nervous around, or just plain don't like, or if something they've said has just bothered me. And I'm not even close to any sort of textbook example of ADD or anything. We have a friend (young 20s) who has severe ADHD and every time he visits it's like watching a ping pong bounce around the room ---he'll look at everything else except another person while talking.

 

I think it's somewhat normal to look away when retrieving words while talking too.

 

I don't know <shrug> personally I just don't worry too much about gaze aversion unless there's stimming along with it.

[razorbackmama]

 

That was one of his main red flags when he was younger, "flying" toys towards his eyes sideways and then grimacing.

Interesting...that's a stim? Was he imagining things when he did this? My 2nd kid used to do this all the time, but we could tell he was imagining something (spaceships, etc.) while he was doing it.

[sbgrace]

My spectrum son's eye contact improved remarkably (and noticeably to people who had no clue we were doing anything) when he did vision therapy. He had major visual issues that were unrelated to his autism (convergence, tracking, etc.) There are definitely other things that can cause eye contact issues.

 

My son is also on the spectrum and, as a mom who was told my kid was too reciprocal and too smiley and too friendly, I think moms are often correct when they have concern. You've mentioned some things, outside of eye contact, that might indicate mild spectrum issues. Anyway, I think it might be worth assessment or "as if" type of intervention.

[Walking-Iris]

Interesting...that's a stim? Was he imagining things when he did this? My 2nd kid used to do this all the time, but we could tell he was imagining something (spaceships, etc.) while he was doing it.

 

 

Watch the child at the end of this video. This is similar to what my ds did only he would move a toy rapidly past his eyes while looking at it sideways and his face didn't remain passive like this boy's but he would grimace in what appeared to a be a painful expression with a smile. Usually, but not always, he would likely jerk his arms out behind his back as well or twist his fingers and then repeat. He was NOT playing or pretending---I trust I would know the difference, as would any parent who has a child with autism locked in a stimming pattern. It was a lot worse when he was little but as he's grown, and like a pp poster said with various supplements, particularly omegas with A, it's becoming less common.

 

Anyway, I would say that any type of gaze issue like this is definitely one requiring further consideration. But if we're just talking looking away out of nervousness or even to think, as a pp said, I might not be overly concerned.

Edited June 9, 2012 by Walking-Iris

[herekittykitty]

Thank you all for your input. I'm not really sure what we'll do, probably just keep an eye on it. Since he already had the neuropsych eval, I don't think we'll do another eval for awhile. Between that, the Davis Dyslexia program and vision therapy, it's just been a lot of $ - unfortunately we had no insurance coverage for any of those. He is a bit of a anxious child/worrier and does look away when nervous. I can think of only one thing that looks like a stim - he likes to hold his favorite blanket to his face and sort of repetitively bounce it when he's upset. It's only at home though. Maybe it's a combo of a lot of things - mild Aspergers traits, visual issues, attention issues, a smidge of anxiety. I do agree that practice might help a lot. Haven't really done that.

[herekittykitty]

My ds with speech problems does that. Did the np give *any* diagnosis then that could explain it? With adhd they'll look away because they're thinking. I've wondered if my ds will end up with an adhd label at some point, but I don't know.

 

Not really. He ended up with dyslexia, dyscalculia, dysgraphia and ADD. I specifically asked about Aspergers/PDD - which was hard to do - but I just want to know and face things. He said no, but that DS just seems rather awkward. I do think he looks around while thinking. He is not off in his own world either - he is studying the environment. He notices every and any change, no matter how small, and will ask questions and make comments about those things.

[herekittykitty]

Oh and we were doing Omegas. I bought Carlsons liquid and MorEpa, both of which were taken for a bit and rejected for poor taste. Sigh. I really wanted something with the high EPA:DHA ratio. Was thinking of trying those coromega packets and it seems like people like that taste.

[merry gardens]

Does anyone else's DC have poor eye contact, but no ASD diagnosis? ...

I'm just going to throw this out since my experience might help someone. My ds13 sometimes has poor eye contact--because he's looking at lips to help detect differences that he cannot hear.

 

He was recently diagnosed with an auditory processing disorder. He hears okay but cannot distinguish some similar sounds from each other and has a harder time listening with background noise. I remember correcting him about eye contact one day earlier this year because he was staring at my mouth. (It seemed kind of creepy--I thought maybe I had a piece of spinach in my teeth or something! I knew something was wrong, but at the time I didn't know what.)

 

His apd is only mild, so he doesn't always depend on lip reading. His audio comprehension gets worse with more background noise. He can't look at the speaker in the eyes when he's reading lips.