Discouraging Math SAT score

[Second Time Around]

My ds (10th grade) just finished a practice SAT test where his math score was 530 (the test book, Gruber's New SAT, was written in 2005 in case they have changed the scoring recently). Not looking good for a kid wanting to be a science major, and a family that can't afford $30k per year sans merit aid. Any tips on how he can boost this a little, or should I just accept it the way it is? He got most of what he did correct, but is to slow to complete the questions. This after a year of doing SAT test prep on his own, including math tips (which he says he struggle to retain, especially during testing conditions). He processes a little slower than the rest of the world. I do too, but managed to get away with it as a literature major at a top university.

 

I'm thinking of paying to get him privately tested for LD again this August. We did this a few years back when he was severely dyslexic etc. (could barely read 3-letter words, let alone spell them). We paid big $$$ for a recommended pysch. educational eval. from a well credentialed individual, but didn't come out with a satisfactory diagnosis from it. His language skills tested extremely low (average 80's), but his visual-spatial was high (120s +) so he landed right on 100 and therefore didn't qualify for a LD 'label'. We did use the info to get him visual therapy and other interventions, so that now he can read Plato through Augustine, a bit slowly but still fairly intelligently, and gets 600+ on the writing/reading sections of the SAT (vocabulary is his lowest score because he has had to work on remedial spelling rather than the vocab. courses that most high school students undertake). So I'm now a tad skeptical that this will gain him accommodations, even though more time would see his scores go up significantly in all areas. So sad for him, because I have never encountered such a hard and conscientious worker as this kid. He wants to go to college, and I'd hate for him not to be able to do so.

 

FWIW, his eldest brother also did relatively poorly in the math section of the SAT (560?). We took him to a residential school for the academically gifted in 11th grade and I remember the math teacher being incredulous that his math SAT scores (both of them) were so low for a math/science kid. But in his case, he had already received A's in college Trig when he was 14, college Calculus when he was 15 (from an actual university, not a CC) and went on to do quite a bit of advanced college math for the rest of his time at the gifted high school. He is now finishing up computer engineering and had to stop his math classes at his current college because they weren't advanced enough for him to progress any further. But the fact that he had very solid math grades from 3 accredited institutions allowed his college to overlook the SAT and give him a big scholarship so that he only pays $10k per year. As we all know, homeschool kids/grades are held to a different standard where SATs are looked upon as critical. The DS I'm posting about got A's in both Algebra I and II with me (Videotext) and an A for Geometry with Veritas Press online course. This is the second practice SAT test he has taken (we held off taking the test this year because of the first score) this year.

 

Any suggestions about how to either increase his math score, or circumvent the difficulty? He doesn't want to be a math major, but he likes biology (more so than Chemistry) with interests lying in the general direction of being a naturalist etc - he doesn't believe he is enough of a scholar to do post-grad work, but would love to work with animals/nature in some capacity, and would like to go to college. And yes, we have talked to park rangers, forest rangers etc, and they all agree that the jobs that never used to require a degree are so competitive these days that those with degrees will get a very definite edge. He is also actively pursuing volunteer opp.s in parks and state forests etc. during high school to give him an extra edge in terms of experience.

 

Kind of depressing for the both of us.

[Tiramisu]

I know this is depressing. You need to come and visit the special needs board for support. :grouphug:

 

I have a student who also does well in classes and on achievement tests, but did much lower on the math section of the SAT than I expected. :confused:

 

If you've had psychoeducational testing, what were his working memory and processing speeds like? Some of what you're describing hints at issues in those areas.

[SkateLeft]

:grouphug:

 

Personally, I'd have him try taking the ACT, or at least an ACT practice test and see how he does on the math portion there.

 

The SAT is an aptitude and reasoning test, while the ACT is more of a straight forward knowledge test. Kids seem to score better on one or the other. My math and science oriented kid tested very well on the ACT, but not as well on the SAT practice tests that she took. We decided to stick with the ACT and not bother with the SAT at all.

[FairProspects]

I know this is depressing. You need to come and visit the special needs board for support. :grouphug:

 

If you've had psychoeducational testing, what were his working memory and processing speeds like? Some of what you're describing hints at issues in those areas.

 

:iagree:What were his processing speeds? If they are low enough, he should qualify for time and a half or double time accommodations if you get him evaluated again.

 

As a former SAT tutor, I would say you also need to know why that score was low. Did he not finish the test in the time given? Did he make careless dyslexic errors that he might have a chance to re-check and fix if given more time? The SAT is just a test like any other test and it can be studied for - you just need to know how to attack it.

[Second Time Around]

Thanks for all the supportive responses! So appreciated!!!

 

You know, I have all the test results on file, but not to hand right now, so I don't recall the exact processing speeds. I do know that this was something that we worked on with his special needs tutor with Brainskills etc., so I have to assume that they were low. That's definitely something we will look at again, assuming we go ahead with testing later this summer.

 

Yes, it was definitely the case that he didn't finish the test in time. He did fairly well on the questions he finished. He did get some test-taking strategies from the books he studied on that topic this year, but perhaps he needs some live coaching to help him implement those tips.

 

Thanks also for the suggestion regarding the ACT. I will definitely look into it.

[Susan C.]

500s on math SAT are not that bad. No, you usually can't do math/science (or maybe just math) in college with 500s, but both of my dc got in the high 500s for math. With a higher score in reading, you might want to consider that your kid is more liberal arts based. Or a late bloomer. Either are not the end of the world.

[at the beach]

:grouphug:

 

Your son sounds like he's made huge strides and has so much to be proud of. I don't think college should be out of the question for him at all. I don't think merit aid is out of the question, either. Have you read Debt-Free U? I don't agree with all of what the author says, but it's worth reading IMO.

 

Your son's in 10th grade at this point, so you have a whole year to work on this with him, and his practice scores aren't bad at all. I think I'd buy Chalkdust SAT/ACT Math Review. I'd continue to practice timed tests. It sounds like it's mostly a speed issue. As suggested by a previous poster, I would also try the ACT to see if his scores are higher on that.

 

Have you considered having him take a cc class each semester from here on out, possibly in math or science? The volunteering sounds like a great idea, too.

 

FWIW, I know some Biology majors, and they were top students in their major, and math wasn't necessarily a strong suit for all of them.

 

No advice on whether you should get another evaluation.

[4Hisglory]

The Chalkdust SAT/ACT prep course is wonderful and easy to go through, I would definitely get it. He gives great suggestions, strategies, and a comprehensive review.

[mjbucks1]

I, too, think your ds should try the ACT. And I bet ds #1 would have done extremely well on the math portion of the ACT. I know there might be other issues as well, but you might be pleasantly surprised :).

[Second Time Around]

Thanks again for all the responses. I will check out Debt-Free U - thanks. Yes, he has accomplished a lot, and we are definitely very proud of him. Thanks also for the Chalk-dust recommendation. Will definitely look at that, also, and give ACT a try. Thank you!!!

[Barbara H]

My suggestion is that at home he try a REAL version of both the SAT and ACT. In my experience the fake versions are often not particularly accurate. It is hard to write those questions and have them be as accurate in scoring as the real tests.

 

http://www.amazon.com/The-Official-SAT-Study-Guide/dp/0874478529/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1338868763&sr=1-1

 

http://www.amazon.com/The-Real-Edition-Prep-Guide/dp/0768934400/ref=pd_sim_b_3

 

Most libraries have both of these books and you can just photocopy out the bubble sheet.

 

Once you have those scores compare them and see what test he's likely to score higher on. The ACT requires less endurance because it is shorter so that may help. Science is sort of a wild card - some students find it a real score boost, but some students hate it. Running out of time is one of the more coachable problems for some students. One thing you may try is having him take the math section UNTIMED and then see how different his score is. Before studying you really should know how well he knows content and how much is a timing problem.

 

I know it is discouraging right now, but I have seen students in his position who end up with much stronger scores. Please encourage him not to panic. He's doing fine.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

If you use the SAT Official Study Guide, Khan Academy has videos of the math questions for each practice test worked out.

 

What I might suggest is that he take one math section as a timed subtest. Then sit down right away and go over his answers and watch the videos. That might highlight where he is having speed problems vs conceptual misunderstandings vs getting tripped up on the multiple choice options.

 

It might also be worth having him do a math subtest with no time restriction, just to see if there are topics that he didn't master when he did his algebra courses (or mastered then and forgot).

[creekland]

A 500 on the SAT is right around the average across the nation and higher than average for sophomores, so it's not a bad score as a starting point. Youngest son (in ps) also tests there at this point... and this is with literally just winning the award for highest GPA in Alg 2 at school... but I digress. It's typical for our public school.

 

So... what to do about it.

 

I agree with trying the ACT. Youngest scored in the 90 percentile on the PLAN (pre ACT) for sophomores. The ACT may likely be the way we go.

 

In your case, it looks like timing is the issue. A couple of times a week I'd have him do a practice section (just one) and finish the whole thing, but mark any he didn't feel sure about and any he didn't finish within the time limit. When you score, show what it would have been with no time limit as well as timed. Have him look at all he missed until he understands why the correct answer is what it is.

 

I would NOT regularly do more than one section. The reason? The brain can only remember so much and doing more than one can overload what it's learning. You want him to miss a few questions and process those correct answers. You don't want overload and confusion by looking up several questions (not to mention if you're also doing Reading/Writing). Then give the brain time to keep processing (it does, even when it's not front and center of our thought). A couple of days later, try another section (same rules). Mix up math and Reading/Writing/Science (if ACT).

 

Over time you ought to naturally see both time and score improvement and keeping track of it will give natural positive reinforcement.

 

One big mistake I see is people trying to cram. They do whole tests and try to remember too much at once. Slow and steady is better. Sure, once the test time comes around, it can't hurt to prepare by doing a whole test at one sitting, but that's then, not now. Now you want to pick up a couple of missed concepts at a time - enough in one section. As his brain truly learns (instead of trying to memorize) it will work more quickly naturally as he won't be trying to think it out so much.

 

It doesn't matter where you find practice tests or if they were from real tests or not. Have a bundle of them to choose from - any one could provide substance needed on the real test he'll get. Just make sure you have detailed answers for any missed (also look at the answer - and why - for any he guessed correctly on).

 

For us, we'll be doing one section each time 2 or 3 times a week over the summer. It's enough to be useful, but not enough to cause burnout.

 

In the fall, we'll know what we have for the PSAT and a preliminary ACT (or SAT). Then we'll take a break until Dec when PSAT scores come back. In the spring, we'll gear up again for a final ACT/SAT (probably one, not both). I doubt we'll retake senior year unless he's very close to additional merit aid.

 

You have a nice beginning score. Now just see if you can train the brain to go faster with conditioning.

[Guest love2teach101]

Definitely try to get that testing done. I suffered from slight dyslexia and visual problems growing up, and that made math an absolute nightmare for me.

 

Since many colleges accept (or even prefer) the ACT, I would see how your child does on that. Many students (myself included) prefer the format of the ACT, and it doesn't count off for wrong answers like the SAT does. The SAT likes to ask tricky questions and word things in a strange way. The ACT doesn't do that.

 

 

 

Hope that helps! Best of luck to you :)

Edited March 13, 2013 by love2teach101
Removed marketing link

[caroljenn]

Both universities I am looking at for my dd who wants to be an engineer state that prospective students must have a minimum math score of 550 on the SAT to be allowed into the engineering department. You're not as far off as you think.

 

I think the doing one section of the math test and then reviewing is a great idea - I am going to incorporate it for dd!! Thanks Sebastian and Creekland for the suggestion! =)

[prairiegirl40]

:grouphug:

 

Personally, I'd have him try taking the ACT, or at least an ACT practice test and see how he does on the math portion there.

 

The SAT is an aptitude and reasoning test, while the ACT is more of a straight forward knowledge test. Kids seem to score better on one or the other. My math and science oriented kid tested very well on the ACT, but not as well on the SAT practice tests that she took. We decided to stick with the ACT and not bother with the SAT at all.

 

 

 

I agree.

[Nan in Mass]

That's about what my oldest had for an SAT math score. (He scored a bit higher but not much.) He got an engineering technology degree at one of the more hands-on schools without any problem. I'm not saying it was easy, but ít also wasn't really really hard. He could have done the full engineering degree but he wanted the more hands-on version. (He got into a program at a different college.) How is he with his hands? Is he a good problem-solver? Does he like to fix things? Does he have the tenacity to make it through the degree? Those will be more important, in the long run. He won't get into MIT with a score in the middle 500s, but there are private colleges that will take him and there are small state schools with engineering programs that will.

 

My youngest scored lower than expected (but still well) on the math portion. He also is headed for engineering. He says that he scored that low because he normally just derives any formulas he needs rather than having them memorized, and there isn't time to do that on that particular test. (Not that this applies to your younger one but it might have something to do with what happened with your older one.)

 

Your son is only a sophomore. My score and the scores of everyone I know went up between sophomore year and fall of senior year, even though none of us did any practice tests. With practice in the math and coaching to help with issues like reading the problem carefully and effective guessing and managing one's time, his score will probably go up.

 

Last question. Ask him if he went through and answered all the easy problems first and then went back and tackled the hard ones. If he didn't, have him retake the test doing that. I bet his score goes up. Ask him if he solved out every single problem. If so, tell him to read the answers first, before he works the problem, because sometimes they all are silly answers except one. In that case, he doesn't have to work the problem. Ask him if he guessed on any of the questions. On the real SAT, if you can look at the answers and eliminate a few as nonsense, then it is worth guessing between the ones that are left. Don't guess without eliminating any answers, though, because points are taken off for every wrong answer.

 

Nan

[lisabees]

:iagree:What were his processing speeds? If they are low enough, he should qualify for time and a half or double time accommodations if you get him evaluated again.

 

As a former SAT tutor, I would say you also need to know why that score was low. Did he not finish the test in the time given? Did he make careless dyslexic errors that he might have a chance to re-check and fix if given more time? The SAT is just a test like any other test and it can be studied for - you just need to know how to attack it.

 

How does one get documentation to give the College Board? DS16 was tested in 6th grade; I forget the scores, but I know his processing speed was horrendously low. Do I just need to provide a copy of those test results?

 

OP, thank you so much for starting this thread. I also have a 10th grade dyslexic. I recently gave him his first practice PSAT test and was pleasantly relieved at his score - 1350 on the three sections. I know I should be horrified, but it was actually higher than I expected! I also know we have two more years to improve. My goal would be a 1600. DS19, my college freshman, increased his scores by over 450 points between sophomore PSATs and senior SATs. He is not dyslexic, though.

 

One concern I have about the ACT - it's more of a speed test. Not good for a kid with a slow processing speed. Practice, therefore, is very important!

 

OP, I hear you about needing merit aid. This particular child would do best at a small school, but we can't afford any of them without merit aid. Hard to do with a low SAT or ACT score.

[Lori D.]

First, that's not at all a bad score for a 10th grader! As your DS takes more math, and gets more comfortable with the math concepts that appear on the SAT, I'm sure his score will increase -- as will his speed due to familiarity.

 

Second, if you are going to request the extra time, you need to set the wheels in motion for that now, with a paper trail of diagnoses, and then finding/filling out the extra paperwork. Here is the College Board list of what to do for special accommodations for the SAT. Follow the links on the SAT website to get the special SSD code for entering on the test. This website (Wright's Law) links you to a lot of very helpful sources for information about how to document need of accommodation, the criteria you have to meet, etc. And finally, here's one homeschooling mom's checklist of what to do for seeking special accommodations for SAT or PSAT testing: http://www.learndiff...com/SAT SSD.htm.

 

Finally, I suggest hiring a tutor who specializes in helping students improve their SAT scores. One-on-one with someone who knows how to help you see exactly how to take the test can boost scores by quite a bit. It can really be worth it to spend several hundred dollars now, if it helps DS earn thousands of dollars in merit aid later. I would make sure that the tutor specializes in coaching for the SAT/ACT, that the tutor can show past proof of having raised a student's scores, and that the tutor is a good match with your student and his special learning needs. Here are a few places to start looking for tutors: Princeton Review tutors; Kaplan tutors; Study Point tutors; Varsity tutors...

 

BEST of luck! Warmly, Lori D.

 

 

PS --

Side note: And if DS's scores don't increase much more, see if you have the option of a good, less expensive community college DS could start at, take the first 2 years of gen. ed. there, and then transfer to a university. We've known several students transfer from our CC into engineering and do fine. In fact, it's recommended that students take the lower level math courses at the CC rather than the local university -- higher quality content, better teachers, much smaller classes. If DS does well in math, but just doesn't test well, he may still be fine going into a STEM field through this route.

 

And getting documented proof of need of accommodation NOW in high school will aid him in also being eligible in college for FREE helps. But again, you MUST get that paper trail started NOW in high school. Otherwise, you have to foot the bill for tutors and special helps all yourself in college.

[WTMCassandra]

The Chalkdust SAT/ACT prep course is wonderful and easy to go through, I would definitely get it. He gives great suggestions, strategies, and a comprehensive review.

 

 

My math-hating daughter really likes this course.

[1Togo]

Our path for ACT and SAT has been slightly differently than other posters. When both of our children had the necessary math in place; i.e. Algebra I, Algebra II and Geometry ( and Advanced Algebra/Trig for one of them). We began practice tests on Saturday mornings at the time they would be taking the real test. They did many complete practice tests. This approach worked. Fwiw, one of them is gifted in math, and the other struggles with math and has learning problems; i.e. slow processing, etc. For us, practice was the key. We used practice books from a variety of publishers that we borrowed from the library or bought from B&N. Our math struggler made a very good score, and his speed improved with practice.

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

I'm not sure if you've looked at this but I would try to separate if the issue is solving math problems or taking tests. Sometimes standardized test ask questions in such a different way from math programs that it gets confusing.

[Second Time Around]

Wow! Just noticed all the follow up posts on this thread. I thought I should update that DS took the SAT last January for practice. He had also taken the PSAT last October. His math scores weren't amazing on the PSAT but his SAT score for math was 640! He honestly is not sure if he can top that, though. I think this past year he has been doing pre-Calc with Veritas Press. Having to review all his shaky Algebra 2 must have helped hugely. He is also currently doing an AP Biology course at a local high school and doing well with that - we hope he will get a 4 according to his teacher. So hopefully his science/math side is starting to come together.

 

His writing and Reading scores are are not so good, though, and I'm not sure how much they can really improve - around 530 I believe. He has had a writing coach this past year who did help him with preparing for the written portion.

 

Thanks again for al the responses!

[Tiramisu]

Wow! Just noticed all the follow up posts on this thread. I thought I should update that DS took the SAT last January for practice. He had also taken the PSAT last October. His math scores weren't amazing on the PSAT but his SAT score for math was 640! He honestly is not sure if he can top that, though. I think this past year he has been doing pre-Calc with Veritas Press. Having to review all his shaky Algebra 2 must have helped hugely. He is also currently doing an AP Biology course at a local high school and doing well with that - we hope he will get a 4 according to his teacher. So hopefully his science/math side is starting to come together.

 

His writing and Reading scores are are not so good, though, and I'm not sure how much they can really improve - around 530 I believe. He has had a writing coach this past year who did help him with preparing for the written portion.

 

Thanks again for al the responses!

 

Congratulations!

 

We wound up doing the SAT three times and had very nice surprises, especially on the third round. Many schools take the best of each score, so I wouldn't hesitate to have him try it again. How wonderful!

[Nan in Mass]

That is what I thought would happen. Phew! Using his math in science probably helped solidify it, too. Good for him! Thanks for the update.

 

Nan

[Second Time Around]

And we also just had the results of his testing in - superior to above average in many areas but processing scores and academic fluency are extremely low, often in the first percentile. So hopefully next September he will sit the SAT and the ACT with time and a half. The person administering the test recommends Community College for the first two years to help him ease into the college workload. I will explore that option to see if it makes sense for him.

 

Thanks again for all your help!

[Tiramisu]

Thanks for the update.

 

If you're going to continue to test, I really expect his scores to go up, especially with the extra time given the processing speed issue. Depending on your choice of college, he may be in the running for academic scholarships. If you decide to do community college, you may miss the chance for scholarships. If CC is the best route for you, great. But before you make that decision, you may want to talk to the disability offices of the colleges, particularly if you have a college near home, and see what accommodations they could put in place for him. Maybe he would be a candidate for a reduced course load, and he could catch up by taking a class in the summer.

 

CC for two years, followed by a state school also seems like a good option.

[Second Time Around]

Thanks for the tips!