What do you need for high school?

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I was poking around looking for references on what constitutes a "credit" for high school.

 

I found a cool table showing requirements for standard public high school diplomas for each state. While this doesn't bind homeschoolers, I thought it was a cool starting point for planning considerations. (Because reports lag data, the 2010 report seems to be the most recent.)

[regentrude]

Wow. Several states require only two credits of math and science each. :confused:

And in CA you graduate with 13 credits???

 

Pathetic.

[KJB]

Most high schools use carnegie units:

 

http://www.suny.edu/facultysenate/TheCarnegieUnit.pdf

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnegie_Unit_and_Student_Hour

 

This is an interesting table:

 

http://www.lavc.edu/vccc/documents/carnegieunits.html

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Most high schools use carnegie units:

 

http://www.suny.edu/facultysenate/TheCarnegieUnit.pdf

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnegie_Unit_and_Student_Hour

 

This is an interesting table:

 

http://www.lavc.edu/vccc/documents/carnegieunits.html

 

So here's something I'm mentally debating...

 

If you're doing a class in a biweekly coop, what is the relationship between student work and class time? I will have class 90 minutes every two weeks for 16 weeks for a lit class. I plan to cover a lot. But that is still only 24 hours of class time.

 

I am advertising the class as needing 5-10 hours of work a week (including reading time). For slower or more deliberate readers, it may be longer. It took me over an hour to annotate the first story, but then I was trying to be pretty meticulous about it.

 

Is this just one of those areas where as homeschoolers, you accept that we have a different distribution of class time to independent work? I'm thinking that the dedicated students will get a lot done and learn a lot. But the organization of the course means that it will be much more of a tutorial than instruction.

[regentrude]

If you're doing a class in a biweekly coop, what is the relationship between student work and class time? I will have class 90 minutes every two weeks for 16 weeks for a lit class. I plan to cover a lot. But that is still only 24 hours of class time.

I am advertising the class as needing 5-10 hours of work a week (including reading time). For slower or more deliberate readers, it may be longer. It took me over an hour to annotate the first story, but then I was trying to be pretty meticulous about it.

Is this just one of those areas where as homeschoolers, you accept that we have a different distribution of class time to independent work? I'm thinking that the dedicated students will get a lot done and learn a lot. But the organization of the course means that it will be much more of a tutorial than instruction.

 

Any coop class that meets this infrequently I would view more as a guided self-study than a school-like in-class instruction.

If I were using a class like this as a parent, I would consider it a supplement to what we do at home, but it would not occur to me that the class should cover the complete credit. I would count hours, the in-class hours as well as the out-of-class time, and base my credits on total time spent, irrespective of length of instruction - I count time on task and expect 150+ hours for one credit.

I would view the class as guide to help us cover the material, but would expect my student to do the major part of her work at home.

Edited May 24, 2012 by regentrude

[SailorMom]

Ya'll are giving great answers. Bu - when I read the title, my first thought was...

A Straight jacket.

[Ellie]

Wow. Several states require only two credits of math and science each. :confused:

And in CA you graduate with 13 credits???

 

Pathetic.

 

Note that it's for a "standard" diploma. College prep would have more requirements.

[Laura in CA]

And in CA you graduate with 13 credits???

 

Not sure what that's all about ... it is not possible for *anyone*, even the kids going straight into the army (and I know some), to graduate from our local public run-of-the-mill high school without 23 units.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

For me or the students?

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Any coop class that meets this infrequently I would view more as a guided self-study than a school-like in-class instruction.

If I were using a class like this as a parent, I would consider it a supplement to what we do at home, but it would not occur to me that the class should cover the complete credit. I would count hours, the in-class hours as well as the out-of-class time, and base my credits on total time spent, irrespective of length of instruction - I count time on task and expect 150+ hours for one credit.

I would view the class as guide to help us cover the material, but would expect my student to do the major part of her work at home.

 

I understand and pretty much agree. As it is, the class will pretty much be all discussion and no readings, except for some poems that we will read and then discuss. But short stories and novels, as well as the bulk of the student text will have to be read outside of class.

 

I'm thinking of sending out a note at the beginning of the class with the limits of what we'll be covering and suggestions for additions for a full credit.

 

I figure that I can help them develop the skills of literary analysis and give them a set of eyes for the readings, but as you say, they will have to do the bulk of the work outside class.

[klmama]

Not sure what that's all about ... it is not possible for *anyone*, even the kids going straight into the army (and I know some), to graduate from our local public run-of-the-mill high school without 23 units.

 

The 13 was probably a typo.

[regentrude]

The 13 was probably a typo.

No, the individual requirements for the different subjects do add up to only 13.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Wow. Several states require only two credits of math and science each. :confused:

And in CA you graduate with 13 credits???

 

Pathetic.

 

I'm guessing that CA is one of the states that now has different qualities of diploma.

 

It would be interesting to compare advanced diploma requirements, but I haven't found a table for that yet.

 

I would also love to see a breakdown of graduation rates by diploma. My guess is that states with low standard diploma requirements are that way because they don't want to be sending too many people out of their 13th year of school without some kind of paper.

 

But the utility of standard vs. advanced might be quite different.

 

It seems that in CA, the mechanism is that there is one set of requirements for graduation and higher requirements for college admissions. (I'm not sure that is bad way to arrange it.)

[regentrude]

I'm guessing that CA is one of the states that now has different qualities of diploma.

It seems that in CA, the mechanism is that there is one set of requirements for graduation and higher requirements for college admissions. (I'm not sure that is bad way to arrange it.)

 

I think it makes a lot of sense to have different requirements. In Germany, kids who do not want to attend university get done with school after 10th grade and then go on to vocational training instead of sitting for two more years in classes they are not interested in.

 

What I find interesting about your link, however, is that even the requirement for UC admission is only 15 credits, not much different from the absolute minimum.:confused:

[In The Great White North]

And in CA you graduate with 13 credits???

 

 

In my high school, back in the day, each course was a half credit per semester and you were only allowed to take 5. So, the maximum possible credits was 15, including mandatory gym classes.

 

( grades 10-12, 9th was in the junior high).

[Joan in GE]

I was poking around looking for references on what constitutes a "credit" for high school.

 

There have been some good threads about this in the past...just tagged this thread, but haven't had time to do a proper search.

 

You're not thinking of foreign universities, right? (I haven't yet been able to figure out how they standardize for a subject. There are so many variations.)

 

Joan

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Not thinking foreign. I was more looking for a source for the hours and workload related to a credit. But I found the chart comparing requirements and thought it was pretty cool.

[creekland]

PA is correct - local control here. Our school district requires 28 credits + a graduation project. One needs 4 credits each of English, Math, and Science, 3 from Social Studies (I think that's going up to 4 next year), 3 from PE/Health/Driver's Ed, 2 from Humanities, and 1 from Technology. The other 6 are electives. Students earn up to 8 credits per year. (Block scheduling with 4 each semester.)

 

It all sounds rigorous - and would be if our classes were... but no AP options - just a handful of cc in the high school options that often don't get subject credit at other than state schools. Our SAT/ACT scores (only taken by college bound students) are below both the state and national average. We're also failing AYP with NCLB.

 

But, it all LOOKS good credit-wise (on paper).

[elegantlion]

The MO information is outdated, it's from 2006. The requirement were updated in 2010, I believe. Also our local school requires more credits than the current minimum state requirement.

 

It's a very cool chart though.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

The MO information is outdated, it's from 2006. The requirement were updated in 2010, I believe. Also our local school requires more credits than the current minimum state requirement.

 

It's a very cool chart though.

 

That wouldn't surprise me. I found charts from earlier years, but not from more recently. If the chart reflected the class of 2010 and changes were passed after that, then they wouldn't show up.

 

I know that VA has some changes that took effect around that time. They also now have at least a couple different levels of diploma, standard and advanced.

[Donna in Sacramento]

Since I reside in California, with one homeschooled son and the other in the local public high school, I was a bit concerned when I read the posts and looked at the chart showing 13 credits only needed for graduation.

 

The program planning guide is on the homepage of my ds15's school website. The reqmts to graduate are much higher (26) than the 13 shown on the linked table, plus within the different subject areas, there are specific ways to fulfill those, as follows:

English 4 credits (Eng 9-Eng 12, in gr 10-12, option of the AP/Honors versions Math 2 credits (must be Alg. 1 and Geometry)

Social Studies 3 credits (must be World History, US History, Govt/Econ)*

Science 2 credits (must be a Biological Sci & a Physical Sci-and each must be on the UC/CSU approved list)

PE 2 credits

Health & Safety 1 credit

Fine Arts or For Lang. 1 credit

Electives 11 credits

 

*For Social Studies, AP Euro History, APUSH, AP Govt can be taken in place the classes listed; AP Govt incorporates Economics in the curriculum.

 

The grad reqmts vary by district, although all students in every district must pass the CAHSEE (CA H.S. exit exam); it is given in the 10th grade, allowing time for students who don't pass to prepare and retake.

 

Bear in mind that min admission reqmts for the CSU and UC systems differ from the min h.s. grad reqmts, always asking for more except in Social Studies-UC & CSU systems require only 2 credits.

 

Each district has different reqmts to graduate but must meet the min by subject area as shown on the table that was referenced in an earlier post. To clarify, a credit is the equivalent of a year-long 2 semester course.

 

I know that the education system in CA is less than stellar, but when I first looked at the link to the table, I couldn't believe it said 13 credits. We live in a very good district-there are some that are better and many that are worse. Hope my post provides some clarification.

[Kareni]

What do you need for high school?

 

 

... when I read the title, my first thought was...

A Straight jacket.

 

For me or the students?

 

One each depending on the season and the day of the week.

 

And definitely chocolate.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[Jenny in Florida]

Any coop class that meets this infrequently I would view more as a guided self-study than a school-like in-class instruction.

If I were using a class like this as a parent, I would consider it a supplement to what we do at home, but it would not occur to me that the class should cover the complete credit. I would count hours, the in-class hours as well as the out-of-class time, and base my credits on total time spent, irrespective of length of instruction - I count time on task and expect 150+ hours for one credit.

I would view the class as guide to help us cover the material, but would expect my student to do the major part of her work at home.

 

I agree, except that I don't usually count hours for courses where there is another option. In this case, I'd look at what the co-op class requires, compare it to the WTM recommendations and whatever syllabi I can find online for similar classes and then make sure my student was doing at least as much as the other classes require. In other words, I'd fold the co-op class sessions in as just one component of the full course.

 

So, my student might be reading more books than would be covered in the co-op class and/or writing more and/or adding some whole other curriculum to the mix. If the co-op class covered just literature, for example, I might have the student work through a composition curriculum at home with me.

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

It is my understanding that for homeschooling you would call something between 150-180 hours of work as a credit/unit for the whole year. It sounds to me as though you are expecting 80-160 hours of work plus 24 hours of class time.

 

It think you need to set an idea of how much "class" time at home there actually is vs how much "homework" time. If your in coop and "class" time hours meet the definition of a credit then suggest to a parent that they grant their child a credit for the class. But with so few coop meetings I (as the parent) might not expect that a coop class would actually be a full course for high school. Based on this perhaps you could recommend it as a half credit.

 

Ultimately, the most useful things you could do is provide the parents with a pre-written course description, reading list/works used list, grade and rational for the grade and a credit recommendation. If your coop doesn't provide a transcript then the parents will assign the amount of credit (and grade) they feel is appropriate anyway.

 

{The one downside I can see is if you call it a full year/credit and the amount of reading (number of works rather than hours spent) isn't commensurate with the amount of reading in a typical high school year long class the course might not be viewed by some universities as really being worth a full credit.}

[Candid]

I've never thought Carnegie units made a lot of sense for home schools. They were designed to equalize high schools all over the country for colleges to judge a course of study. In particular they were trying to level out the fact that in some schools around the country students attended a whole lot less of the time than they did in other schools (think rural vs. urban settings). Plus some schools at that time had one room for everybody (1-12) vs. large high schools with multiple classrooms for different subjects. Colleges felt the need to compare students more even handedly.

 

How children learn and are taught in a traditional class room really has nothing to do with what happens in most home schools. Instead I think home schoolers would be wiser to look to topics covered in a subject for a comparison.

 

In Sebastian's case, how long would such a study take in a standard class room? Then that is what her course would be worth in terms of credits. Maybe just a few weeks out of whole year. In theory a home school mom could cobble together a bunch of these short term things to make one overall course.

 

I admit that we do some things just as supplements as has been noted. DS attended a class on Much Ado for 3 hours a day for 3 days. That's about 9 days or about two weeks of classroom instruction in a regular class that meets for 45 -50 minutes a day. I guess I could take two weeks off as part of our year and count that instead, but I just see it as an add on.