Planning: 4 or 5 days/week? Some other method?

[PeterPan]

If you have a student for whom you have to plan very carefully and realistically due to whatever (ADHD, dyslexia, low processing speed, vision problem, just being a very alternative learner, whatever), have you found it better for the high school level planning to plan 4 days a week and let the 5th help it all work out, thus keeping on track with a weekly lesson plan set-up OR write your lesson plans for 5 days a week, however many weeks in a year (36, pick your number), and just let the year get longer with what doesn't get done?

 

I hope people understand what I'm asking. I can think up answers myself, but I wanted to hear what others had done. The labels don't matter to me. There are some kids for whom a day missed, at this level of material, is not a day doubled up to catch up. So how are you lesson planning? Plan 5 days and it rolls over to Saturday? Plan 4 days so you know it all gets done? Something else?

 

And do you tend to do year-round or only regular school year? One of the ideas I've tossed around is planning that summer as a 3rd semester and using that to lighten the load slightly the other two. Through elementary we just did our normal thing, year round, just slightly lighter in the summer. This would be slightly different, because instead of taking a full calendar year to do chemistry or whatever, I'm saying we would do 4 classes a semester times three semesters, thus getting the full 6 credits when you're done. Just one of those ideas I was trying to sort out.

 

And yes I know I'm oddball posting here. Several of the things we're doing for this coming year are 9th grade stuff, and I want to try to develop some patterns that will hold us well for high school.

 

Thanks for putting up with me. :)

[hthnmamax2]

I don't think you're an oddball. I've actually been thinking about the same thing for my 14 y/o. He's beginning high school but due to his ADHD his maturity level is not yet at the same level (he's actually about 2-3 years behind that emotionally). We're also working on his Math skills because he's still doing 6th/7th grade Math work because he can't remember the concepts.

 

I'm very interested in hearing the replies from those with a teeny bit more experience. :)

 

Beth

[Lori D.]

Graduating DS with mild LDs in just one week, after 12 years of homeschooling! :) Of course, you'll have to play around with different things to finally settle into what works for your family, but I can share what we did in case any of it can be adapted for your own use. :) BEST of luck! Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

 

NEVER weekends

It was important to me to help us learn how to have balance in our lives -- that school was not ALL we did. Plus, to work with a student with LDS -- even though DS's LDs are mild -- is draining; to give him my best 5 days a week, *I* need to NOT be thinking at all about school for 2 days a week. So if something did not get done by Friday, it either:

- went forward into the next week and got caught up in that next week

- or it bumped the schedule back a little, and cumulatively extended our overall school year by a week

- or I would just drop it and move on

 

 

NOT Year-Round (technically)

Our DSs really needed to see a final end-point to each school year, and they always wanted a big summer break; without buy-in there was no way I could push that boulder of year-round schooling up the hill of their resistance. ;) And frankly, the more intense the school and outside activities got over the high school years, the more *I* needed a good, long summer break to feel refreshed and re-energized for the next year. I don't know if the more frequent shorter breaks of a year-round schedule would have been enough for recovery -- but then, maybe shorter school chunks of year-round scheduling would have not been so draining to begin with...?

 

However, twice during high school, we went on a 3-week trip in the midst of a school semester, so that did mean finishing later, which meant shorter summers. And then the year DS with LDs did Algebra 2, we did it all school year, and then took all summer to complete it. We finished it the week before starting the next school year.

 

Also, DSs attended the 1-week Worldview Academy camp each summer, and I did count that towards the Worldview credit, so I guess technically that was "summer school" -- but it was something they really *wanted* to do each year, and would have done whether I had counted it for credit or not.

 

One last thought: there is more likelihood in high school of your student being involved in outside-the-home activities (sports, band/orchestra, mock legislation, speech & debate, high school club, etc.) -- and these mostly run on the local public school schedule. So you will need to consider whether year-round school for your family makes it easier or harder to do those activities without overload. (For us, to do the extracurriculars (all scheduled for the traditional 9-month school schedule here) AND then school year-round would have felt like we never were getting a break -- recipe for massive burnout and backlash here.)

 

To sum up: we really needed summers to give us a break because high school was hard work; BUT... we also sometimes used a little bit of the summer to finish up, or to do something fun that could be counted towards credit.

 

 

Stretch Credits over More Than One School Year

Neither DS is gifted in STEM areas, nor interested in a STEM career. The minimum requirement for science for our state universities is 3 lab sciences, so that is all we planned for -- and stretched them over 4 years:

9th = 0.33 credit Biology, 0.5 credit Anatomy

10th = 0.66 credit Biology

11th = 0.75 credit Chemistry

12th = 0.25 credit Chemistry, 0.5 credit Physics

 

Also, we flipped the order of the Biology book, so that LD DS's intro to high school science (using a textbook, studying/memorizing/tests, etc.) was with the easier "big" stuff and dissections -- the things you can *see* in Biology -- and saved the hard stuff (microscopic organisms, processes, etc.) for the following year once he had time in 9th grade to get used to the new and harder way of doing science.

 

 

"Block" Scheduling

For science and history, we seemed to get more done when we could focus for a longer block of time fewer days a week -- plus we didn't feel rushed trying to get labs done, have time for working on papers, doing research, etc. We've done 75-90 minutes/3 days a week (so science and history take all of the 2.5-3 hours of the afternoon), and we've done 2-2.5 hours/2 days a week (alternate history and science so each is only done 2 days a week).

 

Other subjects did NOT work (for us) with extended blocks of time -- DS with mild LDs could only handle a maximum of about 45 minutes of math (one of his LD areas) in one sitting. Other examples: needed shorter segments for Gov't, and the Econ lectures from the Teaching Company (could only absorb one 30-minute lecture per sitting) -- any subject area that was either a weak area or not of personal interest maxxed out after 30-45 minutes.

 

 

4-Day vs. 5-Day Scheduling

Just me: I have always preferred to schedule 4 days, and then use the 5th day to account for extracurriculars, or for "slop over" for unfinshed work. It was harder to do this during high school, because we also just couldn't do more than a solid 5.5 to 6 hours of schoolwork in a day. Stretching out the science credits and doing block scheduling helped.

 

 

Miscellaneous Thoughts

- It worked well for us to schedule fewer credits in 9th (getting used to high school) and 12th (extra time needed for dual enrollment, senior things etc.), and more credits in 10th and 11th.

 

- Dual enrollment or outsourcing can mess up your schedule and the amount you're able to do at home -- the focus for a student with LDs is all on the outside classes.

 

- Schedule the student's struggle area LAST in the day -- struggle areas "drain their batteries", and if you do that at the start of the day, they've got nothing left for any other schoolwork; if you save the problem area for last, they have lots of "battery energy" to excel in the non-problem areas earlier, plus they get through the problem area faster/easier knowing they will be done after it and are free to go recharge, with no more school demands on their "battery" for that day.

 

- Include time for any needed remedial work/therapy as part of the school day schedule. The reality is, these things require focus and concentration from your student that they will not then have for schoolwork, so you need to adjust your expectations of what is realistic credit-wise to balance with those very necessary remedial work/therapies, and schedule accordingly.

 

- Consider doing an ENJOYABLE work of Literature as a several-evenings-a-week read-aloud together. Don't use that time to discuss -- go over it the next day during school hours. Reading at night can free up some of the day time schedule, but it also reminds/encourages you to have ENJOYABLE time with a special needs student. (Or, if you have a science lover, watch NOVA, etc., together; or a history buff, watch documentaries; etc.)

 

- Count regular enjoyable physical activities done after school, on weekends, and during the summer towards a PE credit. (A "freebie" credit you don't have to include in your schedule!)

 

- Try to leave wiggle room (maybe 20 minutes?? depends on your student) in each day for unexpected melt-downs, difficulties, lack of concentration, having to re-teach something, etc.

Edited May 12, 2012 by Lori D.

[PeterPan]

Lori, that's such fabulous advice!! That's exactly the stuff I was trying to sort out and you hit on a lot of the issues I was concerned about. THANK YOU for taking the time to type all that out!!!! Now I've just to to take notes and chew on this and see how it all turns into something. So much I had not thought about, like block scheduling or doing 3 sciences over 4 years. I had seen posts I think where you had mentioned that, but it never clicked WHY we would want that. It's one of those things I've been thinking with her for a while now, that 3 sciences done well would probably be better for her than 4. Well I guess if she does get desperately interested in something we could do it, lol. However if a practical schedule for her dictates 3 over 4, we'll do that and not blink an eye! Lit in the evening, what a fabulous idea. That's the thing, that you really do feel like you lose your joy to the slog if you're not careful. Especially when you're going in two directions at once (toddler and teen). I'm always trying to capture that and hold it. Hadn't thought about evenings. They (she and dh) tend to watch history stuff on tv, but there might be some wiggle room there. And the wiggle room, WHY didn't I think of that!!! So much good stuff, thank you!!! :)

 

BTW, the summer thing is a good question. She hasn't really found anything yet that keeps her busy in the summers, and she gets squirrelly without structure and plans. She'll say she wants off, but she gets really, really squirrelly and starts asking for stuff. Usually it's more history she wants, lol. So it's sort of a fine line to have that break but not let it go so long she goes out of her gourd and not so overschedule the comeback that it's not pleasant. She actually seems really happy with the amount we're doing right now (reading and scrapbooking for a state each day, math, and online history). But what you're saying makes sense, that if it's the same load as the rest of the year, there will be mutiny. And I hadn't quite thought through the bulk being 10th and 11th and lighter in 9th and 10th. Makes perfect sense.

 

Still love to hear from others too. :)

Edited May 12, 2012 by OhElizabeth

[Teachin'Mine]

Lori's post is awesome!!!

 

I think planning a four day week is a great way to give time for things which take extra time, or just for catch up, or even to allow for museum visits and other "days off".

 

I also love the way that Seton sets up their lesson plans. Instead of having a Monday through Friday lesson plan, it is set up by weeks, and within those weeks, days 1 through 5. So following their plan, it doesn't matter if you take a Monday off, or a Wednesday off, as you just continue with the next day's lesson plan. It's very freeing. My dd followed their lesson plans pretty closely in 8th and even somewhat in 9th, but as time goes on and outside commitments have increased, she's doing more blocking of time now. But when she was following it, it really didn't matter if Monday started with the 3rd day's lesson plans for Week 8 or the 1st day of Week 9. It all got done and it was easy to see how far along you were in the year's work. And this can be combined with the four day schedule - just divide the work by the number of weeks and llabel the days 1 through 4 instead.

 

We don't have to stick with the five days a week schedule of ps. Do whatever works best for your family. :)

[PeterPan]

Teachin' Mine-You're right, if that's the direction I'm going then I should make the plans with a list of activities and not try to group them by week. Then it won't matter so much. It would bother *me* though not to finish what is labeled for a week, lol.

 

Lori-I was just thinking, and this is going to sound screwy, but have you handled Mondays a certain way? If you're taking the entire weekend off (always good of course), were Mondays a bear? Did you schedule a certain way to account for that? Some other trick?

[Teachin'Mine]

Hope you find what works well for both of you. :grouphug:

Edited May 12, 2012 by Teachin'Mine

[elegantlion]

Lori, wow, thanks that is helpful to me too. Elizabeth, great question. One thing we do in the morning is about fifteen minutes of talking to either line out the day or discuss something. I try to keep it upbeat, because neither of us are morning people and I'm trying to teach him how to interact when you'd rather not. Then we start with a read aloud time. His favorite subject. I'm playing around with our schedule for next year now, so I will be listening in as well.

[PeterPan]

Paula, that's part of the problem. I come out of bed with my mind whirring and ideas flowing, and she takes time to wake up. It has been very hard for us to blend and get that romantic start to the day I had always envisioned. So you're saying start with a coffee break or something that slows ME down... Hadn't thought of that. For the last while my tactic has been basically to avoid her like the plague for the first hour or two. That way my upbeatness doesn't drive her crazy. :(

 

Somehow from Tuesday on we're fine. It's just Mondays that are NEVER good. I searched through lots of ideas (something eaten Sunday, something environmental, blah blah) and couldn't find a solid answer. Left me concluding with, as you say, that it's something about how she transitions back into the week and gets her plan into her brain and gets in gear.

[TGHEALTHYMOM]

I don't think you're an oddball. I've actually been thinking about the same thing for my 14 y/o. He's beginning high school but due to his ADHD his maturity level is not yet at the same level (he's actually about 2-3 years behind that emotionally). We're also working on his Math skills because he's still doing 6th/7th grade Math work because he can't remember the concepts.

 

I'm very interested in hearing the replies from those with a teeny bit more experience. :)

 

Beth

 

 

:grouphug: Thanks for your honesty, same boat! 15 yr. old 7th-8th grade math

:TT7 and addded Saxon 8/7 with Art Reed DVD'S

 

 

I am going back to year round with breaks for rest, sickness, and testing on Friday's along with more house / yard care. 3 semesters sounds great if doable!

 

:bigear:

Edited May 12, 2012 by TGHEALTHYMOM

[JennW in SoCal]

Hi Elizabeth!

 

My thoughts are far more scrambled than Lori's, but here they are, anyway, in stream of consciousness form :D

 

With my LD ds, I didn't plan course work by week or by day. Instead I picked a math curricula for the year, picked a list of books to be read and signed him up for an outside science course at his umbrella charter. His reading list for a couple of years covered both English and History in conjunction with many movies and documentaries. You could say my method of planning was settling on the scope of a course first.

 

Planning weeks and months revolved entirely upon outside activities, especially as he was a busy theater kid. I just knew that the week of final dress rehearsals meant little to no school got done, and made sure we picked up the pace between shows. I could also plan to have a unit on an aspect of history during those less busy times between productions. I didn't necessarily plan this in advance, but I'd have a rough idea of a unit, including documentaries and titles, then launch it when we had time in the schedule.

 

Unlike Lori, I did the hard subject first thing because it was the only way to get any focus out of my ds. Math was the bugaboo subject for him, and it required the dog being kept in another room, no interruptions and all my patience and humor. We never spent more than 45 minutes on math, sometimes less. It did take him 2 years to get through Algebra I, but one of those years was his 8th grade year, so it didn't matter on his transcript. He took geometry then called it quits with math. (Nothing further was required in California.)

 

I expected a certain amount of writing each month. He generally wrote at least one, sometimes 2 essays a month, and often did a project for one of his classes, such as a WWII radio broadcast featuring music, an ad, and a news story. He made several videos for projects, including a commercial on the health benefits of coffee for his health class, and for science a demonstration of the special effects that creates the ghosts in the Haunted House ride at Disney. I know it seems like very little formal writing for high school, but he is a natural writer, and I had other battles and issues to tackle. His college English professor was very impressed with his writing.

 

Bottom line -- I planned on a 4 day week, but I never had a schedule all written out for my LD kid the way I did my neuro-typcial kid. I just had a plan of what to cover, expectations that he would do math and read 4 days a week (sometimes it was 5), and expectations that he would write a meaty essay each month, complete with edits and revisions. He got credit for his theater work, and did a fabulous senior project, and somehow got through the basics.

 

I've got to dash out the door before proof reading this, so hope it makes sense! I'll check in later to clarify anything that needs it. :auto:

[PeterPan]

Jenn, I love that you shared this! You're right that there's a certain amount that DOESN'T have to be so hyper-scheduled. Dumb question though. How did you arrive at the books for his reading lists? Honestly, I've done the throw a basket of books at her approach for years. She's a pretty opinionated soul (not shocked, right?), and sometimes my ideas are big fat MISSES. So to compensate for that potential, I've just given her plenty. To narrow down to an actual required list (negotiable but required) would be new for us. I've had this horrible fear of her starting into ancients and saying "I don't WANT to read [insert name of some really valuable thing]..." Sigh.

 

And how did you arrive at your quantity for the required/guided reading list? I've thought about doing something obvious like 50 pages/hour times the amount of time I want her to spend, let her sort out how to schedule it beyond that. However that kind of divided reading is not her cuppa tea.

 

Did he do context pages or use a spine? Was he required to meet with you daily or weekly for discussion?

 

I think this is such a fabulous reminder to think through what is non-negotiable/required and what is just a bread basket of learning and optional for the feasting...

 

BTW, have Mondays been an issue in your house?

Edited May 12, 2012 by OhElizabeth

[Brenda in MA]

Elizabeth,

 

What I've found is that high school just takes more time than the younger grades, and if you've got a kid that is a slow worker for whatever reason (like one of mine), it's a real struggle to get everything done.

 

What I've done is to prioritize and plan his subjects with his strengths/future plans in mine. Every year, I choose a subject to two to make sure that he gets done very throughly, and then I balance out the assignments in other areas to make sure they get covered at a decent level.

 

For example, this past year, he spent a lot of time on Latin, literature, and math. For science, he used the M/L book, and just read the assignments and took the tests. He did quite a few labs, too, but nothing super involved. This was a low-key course for us this year. Also, for government, I had him use the "Dummies" book recommended in TWTM, and then watch 2 Great Courses on DVD. Since he was doing quite a bit of writing in Lit & Latin, I just had him make write outlines from the gov't book chapters, but not do other reports or essays. He still learned a ton and enjoyed the class a lot, but it was not very time consuming.

 

We do a fair amount of things to save time -- like use quite a few audio books for English reading. These can be listened to while driving to activities, during lunch, or in the evenings when he's a little tired. My ds is a strong auditory learner, so the audio books and the Great Courses DVDs work well for him.

 

So, I'd just say that you should be creative in designing your courses. You don't have to require a number of papers and tests, etc. in every course -- just make sure she is developing her writing skills through papers in some subject. I also like the idea of scheduling some of the "lighter" courses for less than 5 days/wk. Our gov't course was scheduled for 3 days/wk, for example.

 

Also, I would say that it's important to make sure your teen has some out-of-the-house activities. Even my very introverted one turned from not caring too much about friends/teen groups to really craving that once he hit high school. I found trying to find good groups for hs teens and finding the time for them to be challenging as well. Also, finding time for regular exercise and/or a fitness class is also important.

 

So I'll end with suggesting that you just "step back" and try to envision the whole picture of what she needs to learn, and think creatively how to fit that into the time you have. Look at her strengths and weaknesses and think about which subjects to focus on and which to make "lighter".

 

HTH,

Brenda

[elegantlion]

Well I think Monday mornings are a device of the enemy. :glare: The only way I survive is caffeine and the memory of what it was like to have to dress up and be in an office by 8am, then sit through a boring Monday morning meeting with a semi-happy look on my face.

 

We are like two cats circling and growling before we start. I ignore his rantings and make sure he has food. Bacon is the best way to bribe him. I either let him talk for the first segment of school, he's a talker and I'll hear about something he's discovered. If he's really dragging I do read aloud and don't ask him to read. If the cat is nearby he'll jump on the couch with him. That helps.

 

We also kick the dog out of the classroom for math, her licking is apparently deafening.

[PeterPan]

Oh Paula, that's is SO funny!! My screen nearly had banana spewed all over it, lol!!! I think you're right that I could probably do something via food (muffins, whatever) on my part to get Mondays going a bit better. Bacon is certainly my love language, hehe. That's a fabulous idea.

 

Brenda, thank you so much for these suggestions! Yes, we've gotten her involved in stuff a lot more this year. I had not thought about de-emphasizing courses. Well I guess I had, but I felt like that was being rogue. You're right though that there's a point where you can de-emphasize something and do a good *enough* job, which is sometimes what fits... Thanks! :)

[Susan C.]

More ideas:

 

Literature: Get a good literature textbook. That will cover your basics. If there is time, then add full texts.

History: Again, get a textbook, add projects etc. if there is time.

Math: BJU w/dvds saved my life for Algebra 1, Geometry, and Algebra 2. Much better to have a distant teacher teaching math over here.

Whole books: Don't feel like you have to go over all that is read. Sometimes I just let her read and either tell me about it or write something about it.

 

When we were behind, I waited for each subject to have an easier part, then doubled that. An example is that the beginning of math chapters is usually review, or easier concepts. Much easier to double up that than at the end of the chapter when its harder.

 

I almost always let my dc pick their books. I pick the subject and a few narrowed possibilities. Most of the time it worked, but I still changed texts when needed.

 

And, I think Mondays are just plain rough for the entire world! And, I usually stayed up late and slept in, and made sure dd knew what she needed to work on. She loved the quiet house. About the time I got up was when she needed questions answered. Sometimes she got up very early, worked, went back to bed, then got up and worked some more. Other times, she slept in, then worked until bed. That way did seem less efficient. I learned to be happy that the work was getting done.

[PeterPan]

Susan, what good practical ideas!! Thanks for sharing!! :)

[Rhonda in TX]

This year (9th grade), I tried scheduling everything M-F, but that just didn't work. We are behind in almost everything. Math will go through the summer. Other subjects should be done by the end of June. I am lightening expectations in the non-math subjects in order to finish up. (In my/DS's defense, we had a lot of doctor appts last fall, and we did repeat two math chapters because he just did not grasp the concepts the first time around.)

 

Next year, I'm scheduling as much as I can over a 4 day schedule, with one day a week for outings, appts, and catch-up. Math will be the exception, just because it takes him so much time. It needs to be spread out more than that.

 

We have always liked taking the summer off, but I'm finding that as the kids get older, activities are going to almost require that. While DS doesn't participate in a lot of things, he will have a one-week orchestra camp in July, plus a family trip at the end of July. For DD (rising 9th grader), she has two weeks of camp, a one week mission trip, the week of orchestra camp, and our family trip. That's 5 weeks of the summer gone. I think every summer will be like that for her, so I can't see a year round schedule working for us.

[EKS]

I planned five days per week and I really tried to keep it realistic, but he frequently worked into the weekend. At the end of the year (9th grade), he worked into the summer.

 

If I had to do it again with him, I would do something like you are suggesting--plan for four days with the fifth day left for finishing up. Or doing something experiential, which we did not do at all because he was so overwhelmed with work.

 

FWIW, I now realize exactly how much my expectations were beyond what is done in b&m schools. My son is now attending a selective private school and the amount of work he has is much less than what I was requiring. For example, I had him write about 1000 words per week, spread over English, history, and science. In school, he has written less than 2000 words all semester in all classes combined! There has been a similar discrepancy between the amount of reading I assigned and what has been assigned at his school. My point here is that there is a huge difference between what is "normal" on these boards (and I felt like I was giving him a lighter load compared to what a lot of people around here seem to be doing) and what is going on in b&m schools. He learned a lot that year--for example, he learned how to write fairly well, and he most certainly would not have done so if he had been going to his current school--but it was a huge amount of work and looking back on it I realize that I could have relaxed a bit and everyone would have been happier.

[Miss Marple]

I just had a similar discussion with my LD son recently when planning his concurrent college courses. FWIW we did high school 5 days a week, however that often included a day for "co-op" or days for concurrent courses - so our experience is probably not applicable across the board.

 

When I enrolled ds this spring in concurrent courses, I thought that a 2 day per week class was convenient because it allowed for 3 days at home and it accommodated his work schedule. He mentioned towards the end of the semester that he wished he had been able to take Spanish every day because it would have made it easier to keep up and would have allowed for more repetition. This was a revelation to me! He has discovered that he does better doing a subject every day - smaller portions more frequently.

 

When we registered for fall courses we made sure he had 3 day per week classes. Although they offer no every day classes, the 3 days will be helpful esp. since they meet Friday. He commented that his MW class made M difficult because too much time had elapsed since Wednesday.

 

This might not be completely applicable for a completely "schooled at home" student, but maybe there would be a way to implement the idea with a LD student (esp. in foreign language)

[PeterPan]

Rhonda--Ok, now I get it. So we should not *plan* on being able to get the regular work done during the summer. If it works out for a particular summer to do something, cool, but don't plan the school year that way. Makes perfect sense. And you're right, I think we're looking at a planned 4 days of regular, 5 days math.

 

Kai--I really appreciate your honesty here. Thank you for sharing that. And you're right on the experiential thing. All the material at the high school level pretty much moves to reading and watching and loses the DOING. Even for labs people watch software and dvds and sometimes don't do them themselves. (We tried that, and it was a big flop!) I'm convinced I need to retain the *doing* along with the reading with my dd. She's just very much a do-er. We create our own pressure and expectations that could easily shut this out. And that's pretty interesting to think about what she would be doing if she were in school. I'll try to pick people's brains locally, just to see. :)

 

Cynthia, that's very interesting! Thanks for sharing!

[KathyBC]

FWIW, I now realize exactly how much my expectations were beyond what is done in b&m schools. My son is now attending a selective private school and the amount of work he has is much less than what I was requiring. For example, I had him write about 1000 words per week, spread over English, history, and science. In school, he has written less than 2000 words all semester in all classes combined! There has been a similar discrepancy between the amount of reading I assigned and what has been assigned at his school. My point here is that there is a huge difference between what is "normal" on these boards (and I felt like I was giving him a lighter load compared to what a lot of people around here seem to be doing) and what is going on in b&m schools. He learned a lot that year--for example, he learned how to write fairly well, and he most certainly would not have done so if he had been going to his current school--but it was a huge amount of work and looking back on it I realize that I could have relaxed a bit and everyone would have been happier.

 

This has been my experience with our local public school. My son did grade 9 at home last year, and at times I felt stressed that we weren't doing as much writing as I had hoped. He is in public school for 10th this year, and he has done far less writing and even less reading.

[Miss Marple]

One of the ideas I've tossed around is planning that summer as a 3rd semester and using that to lighten the load slightly the other two.

 

I think there may be a lot of variation in this depending on the family dynamics and whether the student has other obligations.

 

Prior to high school we schooled on a 6 week on 1 week off schedule. I loved that schedule. However, once we hit high school and became involved in co-op, we had to make our schedule accommodate the other activities. But I still used summer to either catch up, remediate, or cover something that I wanted but could not fit in otherwise. One year we had a "book club" where we covered 3 works of C.S. Lewis with local homeschoolers and some of our church's youth. Another summer we did an OK history course (required for an equivalent diploma here).

 

My boys like to be busy all the time. Even though my LD son needs a bit slower pace, he still wants to do something. His employment picks up in the summer so he has more hours for that. But this year he will be taking a college algebra course through our local university. He is happy to do that because he can focus on just one course. He wanted to take the course because he thought he would not have enough to do through the summer :)

 

I, personally, like the idea of using summer to accomplish something more "fun" than what we do during the school year. And my boys have been receptive to that.

[Nan in Mass]

It was a huge struggle to get enough done.

 

Whether this advice is any help at all will probably depend on what sort of diabilities/differences you are facing.

 

For years, we did the routine things 4 days a week and science and history (and math - it is a disaster to skip math) on Fridays. This allowed us to put enough time into things like math, which took 2 hours. Math and foreign languages were subjects which we had to see twice a day or they didn't progress. The difference was super obvious. Mine did "homework" in the evening (or in the car on the way to or from gymnastics) in these subjects every day. Having them do the excersize alone at the end of the day allowed us to correct the math, rework the things gotten wrong, and go over the new lesson properly every day. Doing it in the car actually worked very well because I was right there to answer quesitons and there was nothing else to do and it was a limited time slot so they concentrated well. Limiting the time slot was super important. We all needed to know when school would be over and we could go work on our own projects. I gave out about lunch time so we started school at 7:00 and quit at 2:00 (other than homework) and I tried to schedule independent things for after lunch. I broke up the day by doing something hard then something easy or independent then something hard. If one order of subjects didn't work, we tried another one until we got something that was comparatively comfortable for everyone. I put my husband in charge of making sure we were all up and ready to do school at 7:00. This was only semi-successful at times but I'm quite sure he was more successful than I would have been left to my own devices. Once we were started, I could keep us going until 2 without too much effort. Mine had homework on the weekends also - math and foreign language and extra reading. If they didn't manage to finish something in what I considered a timely fashion (writing groan), they had to finish it on the weekend. This is how I managed to fit in some extra reading and managed to teach them how to concentrate. My expectations for how long things should take were pretty good because I didn't even try to guess beforehand; all I did was watch them as they did whatever it was. If they spent a lot of time not doing it, I had them finish on the weekend. If they worked steadily at it, I found some other way for them to complete whatever it was. I don't think it did them any harm to have to work outside school hours or have to work semi-independently. This obviously was more successful some years than other years. I saved all the funnest of the reading list and had them read them in the summer. They had to do 2 hours of reading every single day all summer long. Because the books were fairly good and they only had to read them, nobody complained too much. They also worked on art in the summer, while we were at my folk's lake cabin. I picked a subject to do well every year and one to skimp every year.

 

I'll write about what happened in high school tomorrow.

 

Nan

[PeterPan]

Next installment! I'm sitting on the edge of my seat here! :)

[Mom2boys]

- Schedule the student's struggle area LAST in the day -- struggle areas "drain their batteries", and if you do that at the start of the day, they've got nothing left for any other schoolwork; if you save the problem area for last, they have lots of "battery energy" to excel in the non-problem areas earlier, plus they get through the problem area faster/easier knowing they will be done after it and are free to go recharge, with no more school demands on their "battery" for that day.

Hmmm... this is the opposite approach from what we have done with my ds's toughest subject - math. For him tackling it first thing, while he is fresh, seems to help him concentrate better. And he likes not having it hanging over his head all day. Doing his favorite subjects last feels like a reward to him.

[PeterPan]

Y'all are too funny! We're sort of in the middle. Like Lori, we got burnt, like 3rd degree and to the BONE burnt, by following advice from well-meaning teacher evaluators to put the math first, get it done, blah blah. Now we compromise. We do anything ELSE that's also hard or brain-taxing but not as brain-draining as the math first, then the math. Then she gets her reward subjects (scrapbook geography, that sort of thing). That way the other stuff gets done. Her reward subjects are pretty open-ended, so when we've done them first we ended up NOT getting other stuff done.

[Karen in CO]

Is she learning an instrument? My dd is a slow riser and slow starter. Since she's started taking cello, I have her practice first thing after breakfast. It has made a world of difference in her day. It helps her to focus better for the rest of the day. It seems to order her thoughts better than any other schedule we've tried.

[PeterPan]

She doesn't, but that's a very interesting point!

[Nan in Mass]

Is she learning an instrument? My dd is a slow riser and slow starter. Since she's started taking cello, I have her practice first thing after breakfast. It has made a world of difference in her day. It helps her to focus better for the rest of the day. It seems to order her thoughts better than any other schedule we've tried.

 

I put piano first for years, too. The day just seemed to go better if that came first. It also acted sort of like a bribe to get my sleepy youngest out of bed and going. It was independent and gave me a few more minutes to get school organized for the day.

 

Nan

[Nan in Mass]

Continuing...

 

Towards the end of middle school/beginning of high school came crunch time. Reading about what high school was supposed to be about - getting to use those hard-won academic skills to learn more complicated material. This was true of all subjects. Math - use one's basic understanding of arithmetic and algebra and problem-solving to make predictions about the world. Literature - use one's reading and writing skills (writing helps one figure out what one thinks) to think about adult works of literature. Writing - communicating what one has learned or discovered to other people and convincing them of your view. History - use one's reading/research/writing skills to learn about the past, see connections, and communicate those findings. Science was particularly all-inclusive - use the scientific method to learn how the world works, measuring/instrument skills to run experiments, math to make predictions and crunch data and calebrate equipment and statistics to decide on the veracity of experiments, use writing and drawing skills to record and report findings, use study skills to increase one's knowledge base. Gak! What academic skills? I realized that a lot of my decisions came down to deciding whether we were going to work really hard making my son merely adequate in a subject, or whether we were going to work a lot less hard and settle for barely adequate. Which we decided depended on the subject. Spelling? Barely adequate was fine. That is what spell-checkers are for. Writing? He would be severely handicapped both in life and in college if he couldn't write. This was something we were going to have to spend lots of time on. Memorizing history facts? Took forever to get them memorized and then forever to maintain that. Not worth it. Learning to read a textbook and take notes from it? Going to be extremely laborious but necessary. Math? A low level was unacceptable and paradoxically, it is easier to do this at a high level than at a medium level. The middle ground is treacherous without true understanding, at which point you are at a high level. And so forth. In the end, it turned out that it was better to think of this as skills and content. The content would have to be sacrificed in order to find extra time to do the skills. It couldn't be sacrificed completely, obviously, but it also couldn't be covered in the regular academic way. Meanwhile, my son found a way to learn tons non-academically: peacewalking. This was time consuming but well worth it. We added reading to the peacewalking and it turned into all the social studies content subjects. We did two years of natural history, during which we could concentrate on science/study/writing/drawing skills and the content was learned in a less academic way, in context. Then he got his ham license and went through Hewitt's Conceptual Physics. Then he did community college chemistry senior year. We were very excited about his C. He finished his math sequence with another exciting C community college precalc (really exciting for this child, not sarcastic exciting). In college, he made it through technical calculus (a lower level calc) and has met his match with college physics. This is going to take a few tries. That is ok. It is balanced by things like an A in speech and a B in nautical science.

 

That is the philosophy behind what we chose to do. I'll have to come back to talk about the nuts and bolts of scheduling it. What we did worked pretty well but I had to think out of the box in order to make it work.

 

Nan

[Nan in Mass]

And continuing...

 

So I reinvented the WTM wheel and determined that I needed to concentrate on aquiring the academic skills needed to teach himself the rest of his life. Next, I needed a way to organize the whole mishmash. I took a notebook and divided it roughly up into subjects. Every time he did something, I chose a subject and recorded it. Every once in awhile I looked at it and decided what else should be done to complete something resembling a normal high school class. In the end, I went through and reorganized everything he did into classes, being careful not to count any part of anything twice. (I did sometime split activities.) I chose not to grade because that put the emphasis in the wrong place and discouraged the trying of hard things. TWTM makes grading difficult, anyway. Much of TWTM describes the procedure an adult would follow in order to learn something. The procedure is repeated over and over and the student improves over time. That means the student is going to start off doing the procedure badly. An experienced teacher is able to say, "This student's work looks like it should for a student his age." I am unable to do that. I planned each year by looking at what areas I wanted to cover: science, math, literature, writing, foreign languages, history, peace studies, art, and music. I decided what we wanted to do in each of those. In most, this consisted of making a reading/projects list. I never knew how far through the list we would get so I tended to list it in order of importance rather than chronologically. Then I decided how much time we would spend per day on each subject (again, thinking about this in order of importance) and I thought about what skills I was going to have to teach. I wound up with a list of amounts of time. Then I tried to fit it into time slots on a schedule which ran from 7-2 5 days a week, not counting homework. This forced me to be realistic. Once again, I left the funner reading for the summer. I inlcuded more writing on the weekends. There just wasn't any way to manage otherwise. I kept emphasizing the skills while we worked our way through our time slots and our reading lists. (One way of avoiding the feeling of needing to finish what you have planned is to deliberately plan too much. I tended to do this. I also made all-of-high-school lists.) My son usually finished his math book during the summer because he was away for a month or three peacewalking during the school year and math books have to be finished. We continued on through 9th and 10th this way, keeping on doign things the way we always had except no longer putting history and science on Fridays and doing more writing on the weekends. Then in 11th grade, he began community college classes, taking two each semester. This pretty much blew our schedule apart. I still worked out a schedule of time slots and we more or less followed it but my son had much more work, especially senior year when he had chemistry.

 

Nan

[Nan in Mass]

And some more...

 

So what would happen each year was that we would begin the year with my schedule. I put tons of time into getting that schedule right because it was the key to making the whole year work. It had a time for doing everything, including the driving and the gymnastics. I had to be careful not to break it up into tiny time slots because that didn't work. We wasted too much time changing gears. We did our harder things that involved me first and then rewarded ourselves with a break and then great books until lunch. Then he worked on writing and the more routine parts of science. Fridays we did the routine daily things (math, Latin, music) in the morning and then he had some long slots in which he worked on writing and the less routine parts of science and the Spielvogel history reading (instead of reading/discussing literature). This worked well because we could run late since there was no gymnastics. The schedule would feel practically impossible at the beginning of the year but it would smooth out after September. Sometimes I had to tinker with it. The tinkering mostly consisted of dropping things or shoving them off until next year or the summer because they obviously weren't going to fit. We tried to take a day and go to a museum for every month. Wednsday was a short day when he went off to work with his grandfather in the afternoon. This in theory was hands-on shop/technology/repair but grampa managed to work in lots of practical math and problem solving. Between the long day Friday and the short day Wed., everything evened out, more or less. As Christmas approached, I would take a look at where we were and were we needed to be and we would abandon the schedule and work on finishing the essential things. I made a list and he worked through it, scheduling it more or less as he pleased. This would happen again right before he went peacewalking and before summer. He will tell you the last three weeks before a walk he did nothing but schoolwork and he would be almost right. It was miserable. At that point, on the verge of abandonning school mid-school-year, he was highly motivated and worked hard. Sometimes, I would have a skill I wanted to work on (like taking Cornell notes) and we would just do the morning Latin/math/music and then work through whatever material I had decided we needed to do. I suppose you could call this a unit. Many skills, like grammar, were covered in Latin, math, and music. Much of the content was covered simply by reading during vacations. I taught drawing as well as writing and they used it for literature and science.

 

A few more notes on scheduling: One year I thought it might be a good idea to hit every subject every day and not require anyone to concentrate for a long time on any one thing, thinking it might be easier to work intensively that way, and I chopped our schedule into many small time slots. It was a disaster. Another year, I tried to make a complicated schedule which involved one child doing this while I did that with the other child. It didn't work. We needed something simple and predicatable and preferably the same from year to year so everyone didn't have to waste time figuring out what they had to do. It might not have been as efficient. Somebody might have had to read something while they waited for me. It just worked better, though. (This was just two children - more would be a different story.) After October or so, we mostly just used my schedule as an order in which to do things, with a few markers during the day (like quit and work on great books at 10:30). A schedule is your tool. If the schedule doesn't work (for you the adult), it is probably either because you have too much scheduled or because it is a bad schedule. It needs to be rewritten.

 

HTH

Nan

[PeterPan]

Nan, that was fascinating! I'm going to be chewing on that for a while. Thanks! :)

[Nan in Mass]

Sorry it is such a mishmash. I'm in the middle of doing other things and didn't have time to organize it nicely.

 

Nan

[Miss Marple]

What worked best for my LD son was to start the morning off with something easy for an hour or two then we moved to the difficult subject. This usually occurred around 10:30 in the morning. He would take a break at that point - about 15 minutes and with a snack - then he would tackle that horrid assignment (sometimes math and sometimes writing). He would finish that around noon and eat lunch. The afternoon was spent doing science, reading, and anything else he had scheduled.

 

He seemed to be more confident after he had done the easier assignments.

[Nan in Mass]

So I guess one of the major points of this thread is: THE SCHEDULE MAKES A HUGE DIFFERENCE.

 

If one order of subjects is difficult, try another order. If one way (short periods, long periods, twice a day, once a day, once a week all at once, at the library, at home, with or without music) doesn't work, try another. And we should make sure that we teach our children this because when they are adults, they will have to schedule their tasks themselves.

 

Nan

[Susan C.]

And each kid does better with certain subjects first, my son liked to get math out of the way (hard for him) and coasted the rest of the day. Math used dd up where she didn't have much left for the rest. And its important to be flexible with the schedule, be willing to fit school studies around life and all of its happenings. Of course, school work has priority, but its good to learn to be flexible. Flexible was/is a big lesson to learn over here....

[Mom2boys]

So I guess one of the major points of this thread is: THE SCHEDULE MAKES A HUGE DIFFERENCE.

 

If one order of subjects is difficult, try another order. If one way (short periods, long periods, twice a day, once a day, once a week all at once, at the library, at home, with or without music) doesn't work, try another. And we should make sure that we teach our children this because when they are adults, they will have to schedule their tasks themselves.

 

Nan

:iagree:

[lauracolumbus]

Elizabeth,

We're not in high school yet either and no LDs (and I didn't make it through all of the posts), but what helps here on Mondays (and most other days) for my work resistant ds is to start the day w/a dvd--usually history or science. Right now we're mostly working the TC American History dvds. After eating breakfast and watching the dvd, ds reads a corresponding chapter in his AAH text. Then he does his dreaded math. This transition has helped him a lot to start his school day in a much happier mood.

 

Another approach I am considering is to use Monday mornings as a regrouping/reviewing time before we start our school day. My plan is to start the day w/pancakes, and coffee (for me), hot choc. for the kids and review important points from the previous week. Then I will segue into the current week's highlights (activities, unusual aspects of our school week). Then we'll watch an educational dvd.

 

We don't stop math, Latin (and science this year) during the summer. My kids are super busy, but there's still plenty of time to do at least 3 hours of math a week over the summer. Ditto w/Latin and reading. It really helps save time in the fall, as we skip a lot of what would be review time. This has enabled my dd12 to be in the middle of Alg. 1 in 6th grade though she's really not mathy. Because she's ahead, she's only doing 1/2 a lesson a day. This has made math a whole lot more tolerable for her. My ds is envious.

 

Laura

[Mom22ns]

So I guess one of the major points of this thread is: THE SCHEDULE MAKES A HUGE DIFFERENCE.

 

Nan

 

:iagree:

 

This would be my big advice too. We do the hardest thing first while he is fresh. Ds is a morning person, so that is the time to conquer giants. However, I make sure he gets a break right after that. This year we did history during that time. Last year, he had time off to work on his own while I did math with dd. Whatever, he just needed to decompress after math.

 

In addition to doing a hard subject/favored subject rotation, we are also trying a block schedule for next year. We'll be using longer (2 hour) blocks for Science, lit and history, keeping math, foreign language and electives in one hour increments. We haven't actually done this yet, but I'm hoping it makes things better. Fewer transition and time to get thoroughly immersed in things that he finds interesting are good things here.

 

I agree with those that have warned, high school just takes longer. Ds works long days because he will never be the fastest worker. I schedule 5 days/week, but the 5th day is a catch up day in some subjects - not core subjects though. Fridays do have less there, so catching up is possible.

 

Mondays - yes they are evil monsters from the netherworld. I plan on Monday being a day I reteach everything he could do perfectly well on Friday :glare:. I have learned to not get mad about it and not show my frustration, just to plan on not making a lot of progress on Monday at least in math. Ds is a morning person, so it isn't about getting up or getting started, just about being brain dead. We aren't circling like lions, it feels more like an alien has suctioned out his brain each weekend.

 

In spite of that, weekends are critical. Ds needs downtime in order for his brain to recoup. We take summers off except for math. He does LoF math in the summer and enjoys it enough that it works.

 

As far as type of schedule, I provide a schedule for the week, with each day spelled out. Ds needs that kind of structure. At the same time, since he can see the whole week, if he runs behind, he can look ahead for how to get back on track and if he is involved in something and wants to work ahead, he can see what is coming and forge on. For us, the more provided structure, the better. He can work independently now in a way I honestly wasn't sure he would ever be able to do. I'm very proud of him for that. However, he really needs to know exactly what he has to do each day so he can feel "finished". We rarely fall behind schedule and almost never more than can be caught up on Friday. I do a rough plan for the first semester during summer and second semester over Christmas. Only rare subjects that I think might really have to push (like Biology this year) do I schedule the whole year in advance. Other things, like math, I schedule one week at a time. However long it takes is how long we will spend on each topic.

 

I think all of these things have to be geared toward your student and toward their ability in different subject areas. One of the most common truths about kids with various disabilities is the tendency to be out of synch in their learning, ahead in one area, struggling in another. Use their strengths and let them feel successful, work hard on the weaknesses and encourage them not to give up.

 

Ok, I didn't know I was going to write a book and it certainly wasn't as organized as Lori's and never as full of wisdom as Nan's but I hope it offers something of value.

[PeterPan]

Laura, I had been thinking about whether there was something like that I could change, doing hands-on on Mondays or something. The video thing would definitely work, at least for this coming year with geography! Thanks!! :)

 

Oh, we did try muffins and bacon this Monday. Made her happy, but still didn't overcome whatever was fluzzling her. But it was definitely enough of a spirit-lifter to be worth trying next week! We love pancakes too, so maybe we can try that next. :)

[Lori D.]

Oh wow, I didn't come back to this thread for a few days and it really took off with loads of great ideas! :)

 

Elizabeth:

Sounds like summers are a good option for you; just wasn't for our DSs. Same with doing the really difficult/draining subject last -- we finally figured out that we had to go upstream of the conventional wisdom of doing that subject first in order to make things work with DS's LDs. But, as I read in a number of posts later in this thread, that doesn't work for others, so -- definitely a case of YMMV! :)

 

re: Mondays

Actually, I don't know know as though that's been an issue here. But then, we start a little later (9am to 9:15), since DS with the mild LDs is NOT a morning person. There were a few particular programs they really loved and wanted to start with while going through those programs -- Dave Ramsey's Foundations in Personal Finance; LLftLotR... And we've always started with personal devotional/Bible study time, then some together reading of something interesting. Some other ideas I know people have successfully tried:

 

- do Tues-Fri as your 4 full days and make Monday the fun day/field trip/project day/finish up odds and ends day

- do projects on Monday morning

- get out on Monday morning -- a co-op class; meet with another homeschool family and do science lab together; homeschool book club meeting

- put in 2 hours of community service on Monday mornings

- have DC do "life skills" of some sort on Monday morning -- plan the week's menu; go shopping; put together a crockpot meal; sew/knit/crochet project; learn how to change the oil in the car; etc.

 

Looks like other people gave you some good ideas to try, too! Best of luck in having happy Mondays! :tongue_smilie: Warmest regards, Lori D.

[PeterPan]

Yup, it's been a really great thread! It's one of those I'll come back to again and again when I need new ideas or a jolt in the arm! Thanks!! :)

[lauracolumbus]

And back to the debate of whether you should do the hard stuff first when they're fresh or ease into the day with something enjoyable, I found it is completely different for my first two dc. W/my ds, I find school works better when I assign math (his nemesis b/c of the effort level, not the material) as the last subject of the day. If he procrastinates it cuts into his down time. Plus, we fly through the other material he enjoys.

 

With my dd, she prefers to tackle math first thing in the morning when she's fresh. Plus, she's eager to put it behind her.

 

W/my youngest dd we haven't found a rhythm yet. If I let her read first, she's a happy camper, but I have a difficult time getting her to switch gears.

 

Thanks everyone for all of the helpful advice contained in these responses.

 

Laura

[Nan in Mass]

The older mine got, the more they wanted lists so they could just do things. They still needed the lists and I still had to insist that they work during our school hours and not put it off(fighting my youngest about this now), but it still gave them more control. With the heavier load of high school, they found it helpful to see that there was a concrete amount of work, not an endless amount of work. Most of it was so routine (or so flexible) that this was rather a delusion, but it still helped in the short run. They might not have had much free time, but at least it was guilt-free. Some of the lists were pretty ridiculous for high school, ending in things like "reread your paper, show it to me, make the corrections, show it to me, print it out, file it". It also turned out to be important to make them actually cross things off the list, not just remember that they did it (or thought they did it) (or wished they'd done it) (or fooled themselves into thinking they had done it) (or...).

 

Nan

[JanetC]

It also turned out to be important to make them actually cross things off the list, not just remember that they did it (or thought they did it) (or wished they'd done it) (or fooled themselves into thinking they had done it) (or...).

 

Nan

 

:iagree:That sounds so very, very familiar... Glad I'm not the only one! :lol:

[datimasa]

We school year round 3 days a week because that works best with my dh's schedule.

[Holly IN]

The older mine got, the more they wanted lists so they could just do things. They still needed the lists and I still had to insist that they work during our school hours and not put it off(fighting my youngest about this now), but it still gave them more control. With the heavier load of high school, they found it helpful to see that there was a concrete amount of work, not an endless amount of work. Most of it was so routine (or so flexible) that this was rather a delusion, but it still helped in the short run. They might not have had much free time, but at least it was guilt-free. Some of the lists were pretty ridiculous for high school, ending in things like "reread your paper, show it to me, make the corrections, show it to me, print it out, file it". It also turned out to be important to make them actually cross things off the list, not just remember that they did it (or thought they did it) (or wished they'd done it) (or fooled themselves into thinking they had done it) (or...).

 

Nan

YES YES YES!!  This is what my son wants for high school.  He wants details.  I am doing this his way but it is exhausting.  lol

[1Togo]

Ideas from Our House

 

1.  I only plan one week in advance.  Lesson learned from years of erasing and redoing schedules.

 

2.  I use a student planner with times and put the work for each subject in 1 hour blocks, except for math and Latin, which are 1 1/2

     hours.

 

3.  I do not plan a week in advance for struggle subjects like math.  Instead, I write the subject; i.e. Math, and leave the lines below

     that blank.  Writing out a week in advance for struggle subjects has often meant lots of erasures because we may need to repeat

     lessons.  We write in what has been done.

 

4.  Dc checks off the work as it is done.  The planner is kept on the breakfast bar, not in the school room, so I can float/plod by and  

     check on progress.

 

5.  Even though each subject has an hour allotted for the work, I under plan.  In other words, I know what dc can do in an hour, and I

     plan work for only about 45 minutes.  If the day is going well in terms of focus etc., dc will finish early.  High fives all around!

 

6.  I plan 4 full days with 1/2 day on Friday because of violin lesson, tutoring and errands.  We do core subjects on Friday morning -

     math, composition, Latin, and violin practice. 

 

7.  We don't completely take Saturday off.  Dc studies Latin, and we work on the struggle subject.

 

8.  Sunday is off.

 

9.  5 or 6 weeks on, 1 week off

 

P.S.  Nine months to go, and I am a retired homeschooling teacher.  Nine points doesn't seem like a lot of wisdom on planning and scheduling after years, many years, of agonizing about it.