Gifted parents raising non-gifted kids?

[nellecv]

Are there any parents out there who were identified as gifted as children and are raising non-gifted kids? My daughter is bright and accelerated (+1 level in math +2 in reading), but I wouldn't describe her as gifted, just bright with lots of support at home. I'm ashamed to admit it, but I sometimes find myself disappointed and frustrated about her abilities. (Don't shoot me, I KNOW this is unreasonable!) :auto:

 

How do you keep yourself from expecting unreasonable things? (Why isn't my 6 year old reading chapter books independently?)

 

How do you judge whether a child just has poor work habits or has truly reached the most she can do at this point?

 

I know there are parents out there with much more serious struggles than this! But this is where I'm at and every day is a battle to keep myself from pushing too hard.

[Crimson Wife]

Biological children typically have IQ's that are very similar to their parents' so don't be too quick to write off a child at a young age. Some kids are "late bloomers" and don't learn to read early, but once something "clicks" in their brains they take off. My mom and my DH were like this. By middle school, it's impossible to tell the gifted "late bloomers" from the gifted "early bloomers".

[shann]

I've been wondering lately, do all "gifted" kids have to be accelerated? Are they not gifted if they are not accelerated? I know that is the focus of this particular board but in general I question if acceleration or early academic milestones has to be apart of the definition of gifted...

Couldn't your dd have a high IQ but just not have the personality (even just at this time) to accelerate?

I know there are a lot of kids, on this board especially and naturally considering its title, that seem to pull information straight out of thin air and that is how they are accelerated. But I really wonder if there are not many gifted kids who are not working ahead simply because they have not been taught the material above grade level and it is not their desire at this point to run ahead with the easily measured topics of math or reading. How far ahead a kid is in MAth in particular often seems like it is the measuring stick for gifted and I wonder how accurate that is or if it's fair to measure so many children by it...

Anyway, sorry to ramble. I guess my point is, it is maybe not so easy to know if I child is gifted. Not all will express their high iq in the same manner.

[LisaKinVA]

Anyway, sorry to ramble. I guess my point is, it is maybe not so easy to know if I child is gifted. Not all will express their high iq in the same manner.

 

This is absolutely true. There is a lot that depends upon interest/personality/drive.

[Jen500]

Me. I was in the gifted classes all throughout my public school years earning A's and B's along the way, went to a selective college on a full scholarship, and I am a member of Mensa now.

 

And I have five completely average children, and -- get this -- one child who is mildly mentally retarded (IQ = 60). Go figure.

 

It is very difficult. I am constantly told by other homeschooling friends that I have expectations that are too high for my kids' abilities. I constantly struggle to find the balance between "challenging" my children versus "stressing them out with unrealistic expectations". So what happens is that I lay off for a while, then ramp it up again, then slow it down again, then ramp it up again... seems like I can never find that perfect place to be.

 

I also catch myself thinking negative thoughts about my children, and I know I shouldn't. I sometimes wonder if they are braindead. (Just kidding - sorta.)

 

I could go on, but it won't be pretty, and I don't want to face the onslaught of negative remarks. Just let me sum it up by saying that it is very difficult, not just for me, but also for my poor children.

 

:grouphug:

 

You don't have to answer this, but does your husband have an average IQ? I haven't read anything about kids IQ scores of parents with very different IQs. I'm just curious.

[nellecv]

Me. I was in the gifted classes all throughout my public school years earning A's and B's along the way, went to a selective college on a full scholarship, and I am a member of Mensa now.

 

And I have five completely average children, and -- get this -- one child who is mildly mentally retarded (IQ = 60). Go figure.

 

It is very difficult. I am constantly told by other homeschooling friends that I have expectations that are too high for my kids' abilities. I constantly struggle to find the balance between "challenging" my children versus "stressing them out with unrealistic expectations". So what happens is that I lay off for a while, then ramp it up again, then slow it down again, then ramp it up again... seems like I can never find that perfect place to be.

 

I also catch myself thinking negative thoughts about my children, and I know I shouldn't. I sometimes wonder if they are braindead. (Just kidding - sorta.)

 

I could go on, but it won't be pretty, and I don't want to face the onslaught of negative remarks. Just let me sum it up by saying that it is very difficult, not just for me, but also for my poor children.

 

It's so nice to hear that someone else has the same thoughts! I feel so guilty when I start to lose patience.

[SKL]

My kids were adopted, so I kind of expected them to be "average." However, I've always included academic learning stuff in our play/activities, and believed along the lines of Maria Montessori that even an average kid can start to read around age 4.

 

Turns out, one of my kids is probably smarter than I (I was what you'd call moderately gifted??). Super! However, I've worried about the other one. I figured out that she has vision issues, and vision therapy has helped a lot, but she still seems "to me" to be behind in the area of visual memory. In other academic areas, she seems to be average to "bright normal." However, sometimes she surprises me. So I say, it's too early to tell what gifts she may have. But I don't view her as "gifted."

 

I don't feel disappointed, and I hope I don't put any stress on her over this. However, I worry. I may over-compensate (by typical US standards). For example, I require her to read something "challenging" most days, even though she's probably above average for her age and grade. I think the idea of struggling in school is scary to me because I never had to deal with it myself. I worry that it would hurt my kid's self-esteem or desire to learn. But other times, I remind myself that her having to work harder to achieve will benefit her in the long run.

[Mandy in TN]

I'll take a stab at this one. I spent my elementary years bored to tears in pull out programs. Without telling the whole sordid story, when I was young, I married an average guy who was athletic and popular in high school and happened to have a family history of dyslexia. When I was pregnant, I remember fervently hoping that my children would be normal and fit in and wouldn't have the problems my brother and I had.

My oldest tested 2E mildly dyslexic and mildly gifted. It was incredibly frustrating to have him look at the phrase "the cat in the hat" halfway through the book and have him act like they were words he had never seen before. It was equally frustrating having him drag me to the adult book section to get dinosaur/ paleontology books that I then had to read to him. I actually had him repeat 2nd grade and then in 4th grade it all clicked in place. He scored post high school almost across the board on his standardized testing. He was suddenly reading LotR and anything that everything related to dragons and mythology. However, his written output has always been and still is not equivalent to his oral output.

My second ds tested within the normal range. He does input to the best of his ability and his output both written and oral is representative of his input. He gets the job done. He went through some teenage brain fog and I had him repeat Algebra 2. Last year he did pre-calc with a tutor. This year, as a senior, he has taken pre-calc alg and pre-calc trig through dual enrollment. He likes math and does well with it. Thanks to hard work and desire, he was far enough ahead in elementary school that he was able to repeat Alg2 and pre-cal while in high school.

I divorced and remarried. Dh went through school 2 years ahead of grade level. My youngest ds/ his only ds is definitely accelerated. However, while I do think he is cut from a different cloth than my older two, I don't think he is gifted like some other members of my family. He likes math. He likes his math tutor. He reads what is asked of him and completes the minimum output requested. Beyond this, he is quite happy to spend his time playing video games.

Do you see a common thread here? I really, very strongly believe in meeting a child where he is and moving him forward at a pace that encourages mastery of skills and diversity of scope. However, I have allowed them to run ahead as much and as fast as they wanted in those areas that interested them. This would be why my oldest had extra literature and history on his high school transcript and my second has extra science and fine arts. They are who they are. They did not come to me as empty buckets to be filled but as whole people complete with their own unique personalities, abilities, and interests. I also try not to allow academic achievement be my long term goal in parenting my child.

I found a post of mine about long term goals that I'll paste below.

Mandy

[Mandy in TN]

Long term-

I want my child to be firm in his knowledge of appropriate conduct. I want him to learn the difference between what he wants to do right now and having a strong enough will to do what is appropriate/ right. He must also be taught to be careful not to rationalize something to be right simply because he wants it to be so. Along these lines, there can be no true happiness without first taking care of responsibilities. “…the chief responsibility which rests on them as persons is the acceptance or rejection of ideas. To help them in this choice we give them principles of conduct, and a wide range of the knowledge fitted to them.â€

 

"I am, I can, I ought, I will." is the place from which I instruct, because we achieve through diligence not through intelligence or imagination. I use habit training as a road to success, because I want him to be a responsible, decent, moral person who possesses positive and productive physical and mental habits. I want him to learn to apply these habits to whatever he chooses to do in life whether that is a tinker, a tailor, a soldier, or a sailor.

 

I exercise habit training alongside the idea that “perhaps the business of teachers is to open as many doors as possible.†I respect that he is born whole and that his mind is naturally designed to learn. I can provide the nourishment of education for his mind to grow healthy through a learning lifestyle where he is trained to be disciplined not in subject matter but in life for "education is an atmosphere, a discipline, a life."

 

However, my child is not a blank slate, but is a whole person complete with his own personality and capacity for good and evil. Neither my self worth nor his hinges upon his going to college. I will for my part try to open doors and windows and widen chinks in the walls, but ultimately he will choose his own path. I hope that he chooses one that is fulfilling.

 

Mandy, with quotes from Charlotte Mason

 

 

[catz]

Biological children typically have IQ's that are very similar to their parents' so don't be too quick to write off a child at a young age. Some kids are "late bloomers" and don't learn to read early, but once something "clicks" in their brains they take off. My mom and my DH were like this. By middle school, it's impossible to tell the gifted "late bloomers" from the gifted "early bloomers".

 

:iagree: I think we're a family of late bloomer GT, probably of the visual spatial variety. I got glasses at age 6 and then took off in reading so probably had visual issues. All of us had the intensity, but not necessarily the obvious acadmeic skill that a kindergarten or 1st grade teacher would recognize. Like my son at 4 could explain plumbing systems and do lego sets for ages 12 and up and wanted to listen to books like the Hobbit. But had no interest in reading (we didn't know much about GT at the time - neither of us were formally IDed even though we clearly had very GT test scores later in life). My daughter was so, so emotionally high strung as a baby and toddler.

[LillyMama]

How do you judge whether a child just has poor work habits or has truly reached the most she can do at this point?

 

Simple. Any gifts they get from me, any struggles come from their dad. :D Just teasing...

 

What's funny is that I was always gifted. All the way through to the full academic scholarship to an Ivy League college. My husband barely passed high school. But I can, without hesitation, say that he is the smartest man I know. Without going into the sordid details, he just wasn't good at school. On the other hand, school was easy for me. But, in real life, he became FAR more successful than I ever did.

 

One of the reasons I wanted to home-school was so that I could teach my kids to be disciplined, hard workers and to learn how to learn- to challenge themselves. Because although I looked successful on paper, I really never learned those things because I didn't have to. My daughter needs this, she's just like me. I don't worry about my more "average" son because I have his dad as an example for me. My husband still cannot spell himself out of a paper bag. But he's, next week, accepting a very prestigious engineering award for the company he owns (with four employees) that beat out the likes of Dell and Sun.

 

I have to constantly remind myself that, just because I'm home-schooling and it's my focus now, it's not my PURPOSE. My purpose is to help my kids reach their true potential and that might not be in academia. So I have to be better about judging my kids on the kinds of PEOPLE they are becoming, not the kind of STUDENT they are.

[Lecka]

I am somewhat in this category.

 

I read very well when I was a child and did well in language areas, and I also did well in math. I did well at school.

 

My husband is not an academic guy, but he is smart, and he thinks about things, and he knows about all kinds of things. He knows about things from watching documentaries or first-hand knowledge.

 

I know about things I have read, but I have a hard time with experiential learning.

 

We are a good couple. :)

 

What I didn't really know until my oldest son hit Kindergarten, was how poorly my husband reads. He is not a good reader at all. He can read, but slowly, and he gets words wrong. I have always known he can't spell and has extremely poor handwriting. I didn't know the extent of his speech problems as a child. I didn't know the extent of language/speech/reading problems in his family. No one is diagnosed -- but there seems to be a strong history of dyslexia.

 

So, my son has had struggles with speech and with reading. I have not been frustrated with him so much as I have hated my former self's snotty attitudes, or been angry I couldn't figure out how to teach him, and angry that curriculums that worked for other children didn't work for him.

 

However -- he has always been smart when you talk to him, and understood everything. He is funny and kind. Best of all he has got good social skills, so I don't have to relive my miserable elementary school experience through him. I focused everything on social skills when he was a younger kid, not knowing he would turn out to have really needed phonemic awareness training. But -- at this point it has worked out.

 

Secretly or not-so-secretly I hold out hope that he will turn out to be really smart when he hits upper-level math and science. I can remember some stealth boys with sloppy handwriting coming out of nowhere to be awesome in those classes, and I want my son to be one of those kids. But -- I am trying not to wish this too much. It is so far in the future I think it is okay -- I think I will be more realistic as that time approaches.

[EthiopianFood]

I get it.

 

I also need to go to bed. LOL I'll add more later.

[tarahillmom]

I completely understand. My grandfather was an educational psychologist with a PhD, and he always told me that people tend towards the norm. He said two highly gifted people will have a bright child, but the chances of a child smarter than both are not statistically higher. In fact he said that for genius you are better off with one average parent and one gifted. I know is data may be old, but just my two cents.

[Mommy22alyns]

Me. I guess. I was identified as gifted in kindergarten and always found school very easy. The girls were brighter early on, but seem to have topped out or something. Things are easy for them 99% of the time, school is not a struggle. But they're doing grade level materials except for reading. It's kind of frustrating for me.

[Crimson Wife]

I completely understand. My grandfather was an educational psychologist with a PhD, and he always told me that people tend towards the norm. He said two highly gifted people will have a bright child, but the chances of a child smarter than both are not statistically higher. In fact he said that for genius you are better off with one average parent and one gifted. I know is data may be old, but just my two cents.

 

I keep hearing this claim, but it's been my personal observation that kids of two gifted individuals often end up smarter than both their parents. The parents are typical Ivy League bright but then the kid winds up way-way-way off the charts. Intelligence seems like a weird exception to the whole "regression to the mean" concept.

[Runningmom80]

I keep hearing this claim, but it's been my personal observation that kids of two gifted individuals often end up smarter than both their parents. The parents are typical Ivy League bright but then the kid winds up way-way-way off the charts. Intelligence seems like a weird exception to the whole "regression to the mean" concept.

 

 

 

I think it's just an example of statistics being meaningless to the individual. The gene lottery can be swayed I guess, but really, I think it's a crap shoot.

 

This is just my opinion, I don't have references. :tongue_smilie:

[momdrowagoy]

I just found this with a Google search. I'm HG, IQ around 145 based on childhood testing, and DD just tested high average. Her dad was also in a gifted program growing up though he doesn't have an exact score. I never thought I would be raising a non-gifted kid. I know that sounds terrible, but it's the truth, and I worry I won't know how to advocate for her...I feel the need to amass information about what to do, really, even though she's in fine shape. She's high average, pretty even across areas, but "superior" in a few. I expected her to test gifted, is all--maybe not highly gifted, but somewhere in the range. I'd like to connect with other parents in my situation.

[idnib]

We are in the same boat. DH and I are both gifted and the kids seem bright and accelerated but not gifted. DH is highly creative, though, and I'm not. Both kids are much more creative than I have ever been. DH and I were both early bloomers so I'm not sure I put much stock in the late bloomer theory in our own family's case.

 

I also become frustrated with my kids when they don't get something as quickly as I would have at their age. Confession time: I almost lost my mind teaching DS long division. I tried to explain the algorithm to him as a way of tracking remainders for each place holder, eventually gave up, taught him the algorithm and let him memorize it, then went back and taught the reasoning to him after he'd learned to do it by rote. He gets it now, so I take solace in the idea that most kids don't even get that level of understanding.

 

That said, having read Dweck's Mindset book, we have greatly emphasized hard work and diligence over innate intelligence. I was always told I was smart and never developed the discipline and skills that could have really helped me in many ways. DH is better than I am in that regard. So...even though our kids may not have the same IQs as we do, I think they're better off than we were. Skills and persistence beat intelligence a great deal of the time.

[Crimson Wife]

I just found this with a Google search. I'm HG, IQ around 145 based on childhood testing, and DD just tested high average. Her dad was also in a gifted program growing up though he doesn't have an exact score. I never thought I would be raising a non-gifted kid. I know that sounds terrible, but it's the truth, and I worry I won't know how to advocate for her...I feel the need to amass information about what to do, really, even though she's in fine shape. She's high average, pretty even across areas, but "superior" in a few. I expected her to test gifted, is all--maybe not highly gifted, but somewhere in the range. I'd like to connect with other parents in my situation.

 

You cannot compare IQ tests taken decades ago with current ones because of the so-called "Flynn Effect". See: http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/wisc_vs_sb_l-m.htm

[momdrowagoy]

You cannot compare IQ tests taken decades ago with current ones because of the so-called "Flynn Effect". See: http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/wisc_vs_sb_l-m.htm

 

Um...ok. I can't understand this table, really--it seems to be about the Stanford Binet, which I don't think I actually ever took.

 

I understand that the Flynn effect refers to test scores rising over time, and so the WISC-IV attempts to correct for the Flynn effect. What am I missing?

[TranquilMind]

Biological children typically have IQ's that are very similar to their parents' so don't be too quick to write off a child at a young age. Some kids are "late bloomers" and don't learn to read early, but once something "clicks" in their brains they take off. My mom and my DH were like this. By middle school, it's impossible to tell the gifted "late bloomers" from the gifted "early bloomers".

Yeah, this!

I had one much later than another on reading/writing.  Like you, I was puzzled and a bit concerned.

It passed and that one zoomed, just later than the earliest one. 

[momdrowagoy]

Yeah, this!

I had one much later than another on reading/writing.  Like you, I was puzzled and a bit concerned.

It passed and that one zoomed, just later than the earliest one. 

 

Yeah, she's not even slow or late at anything and never has been. She's reading at least two grade levels ahead. And math, I don't know because the school doesn't give us as much information about that (for reading they send home info on the report card about guided reading level info, lexile, etc.), but math is her favorite subject and she seems more adept at it than I was at her age. She at least clearly likes it a whole lot more--I have never liked math, despite going to a science and math gifted high school  :confused1:

 

I opted for private testing because I wanted to get some sense of if she might need acceleration (i.e. the "gifted program") at school. It didn't give me much of a sense at all, because the IQ test says high average but she's still ahead, I think. *shrugs*

[MeAndTheBoys]

Me (raising hand).  I was tested in school with a very high IQ and just feel like I'm very quick at some things.  But honestly, I didn't really develop my skills as much as I could--thankful for homeschooling because it's giving me an opportunity to grow :)  And a portion of my kids seem to be quick and similar to my learning style and ability to progress.  I hope I can direct them to "use their powers for good" more than I did--and to be well rounded  A portion of my kids are not quick and sometimes I get frustrated because our learning styles are different--but they have some very deep interests and I know that they must have some abilities we just haven't tapped into yet--so I work on getting the basic skills down and allowing them to grow in their own way.

 

For me, it's been hard to recognize that giftedness and abilities can look so different. Enjoying reading other responses.

 

Betsy

[MistyMountain]

.

[wapiti]

Two of my kids are hopefully average and the other is very perceptive and curious and fits some traits sure but doesn't have any amazing precocious skills and actually struggles in reading. It is so hard for me to teach kids who really struggle to learn things instead of picking things up fast and to me it feels like something is wrong.

 

Your kids are still quite young and it's possible that they might be late blooming and/or have a learning issue of some kind (2e/twice-exceptional), even a minor one, that may hinder their performance.

[Liza Q]

 

 

 we have greatly emphasized hard work and diligence over innate intelligence. I was always told I was smart and never developed the discipline and skills that could have really helped me in many ways. DH is better than I am in that regard. So...even though our kids may not have the same IQs as we do, I think they're better off than we were. Skills and persistence beat intelligence a great deal of the time.

 

 

I am in a similar situation. While I do not know my IQ, I went to a top High School (Hunter College High School) where I did not do well at all. I read a lot and paid no attention to anything that bored me...and graduated with a 78 average and no college plans. Looking back, I see my lack of executive function (and math phobia) like giant neon signs over my years at Hunter. Sad.

 

So, I emphasize diligence and organization over intelligence. I have one daughter who is exactly like me (very bright, with anxiety and OCD and focus issues...). She could not have handled the pressure of a top college but did extremely well in the Honors Program at a "regular" college. My second daughter is average in most ways (she is, however, a great reader. Her favorite author these dyas is Trollope) but works very hard and is doing well in college. My third daughter is artistic and has my issues as well...poor kid! My son is bright in a more conventional way - above average in everything, but lazy, so I am really working on him!

 

Teaching them all to read was illuminating. One read well at 5, and one did not achieve that level until she was 10. I tried very hard to meet them all where they were, choose curriculum that would challenge but not overwhelm them, and never make one feel superior or inferior to another.

[madteaparty]

Interesting question and thanks for starting this thread. I was never tested as a child (grew up in Eastern Europe and I think this intelligence testing, differentiation, etc. is a thoroughly western/ capitalist concept) but I think both DH (corn fed American) and I have unrealistic expectations of our child. I manage to keep in check because he is a lovely human but it is hard not to fall into that trap.

That said, here is my unpopular opinion: true giftedness is extremely rare, if present it certainly does not guarantee lifetime success and happiness, that content mediocrity is not a horrid way to live and if you are getting bummed out (as I often do) reading in here please remember there are tremendous resources dedicated to these children and it becomes a chicken and egg issue. I don't know at what point in history a person educated at the level I have been, that speaks the languages I do, etc. has spent as much time thinking and asking every three months about the next read aloud ;) it's a bit ridiculous if I'm honest :)

[Crimson Wife]

Um...ok. I can't understand this table, really--it seems to be about the Stanford Binet, which I don't think I actually ever took.

 

I understand that the Flynn effect refers to test scores rising over time, and so the WISC-IV attempts to correct for the Flynn effect. What am I missing?

 

I'm saying that scores on the current IQ tests are lower than scores on the old IQ test. So if you scored 150 on the old test and your child scores 135 on the new test, you could both have the exact same actual level of "g" (general intelligence). It's not that you're HG and your kid is only MG, it's just that the new tests give lower scores than the old ones.

[Crimson Wife]

 please remember there are tremendous resources dedicated to these children

 

Sadly, this is not the case. True GATE programs in public schools are few and far between. Whatever resources are being dedicated tend to come from families, and this is a big problem because it means that mostly it's the gifted kids from affluent families who have access.

[madteaparty]

I am talking about us, here, and the resources coming from families, either in the form of prep or just a highly educated parent staying at home. I haven't met a truly gifted kid in person. All the ones that I personally know made the OLSAT cut off for purposes of admission into NYC gifted programs were heavily workbooked.

[momdrowagoy]

I'm saying that scores on the current IQ tests are lower than scores on the old IQ test. So if you scored 150 on the old test and your child scores 135 on the new test, you could both have the exact same actual level of "g" (general intelligence). It's not that you're HG and your kid is only MG, it's just that the new tests give lower scores than the old ones.

Thanks. I thought tests are iteratively/periodically renormed to adjust for the Flynn effect, but maybe I misunderstood.

[kbutton]

I think you have to consider personality a great deal before ruling out giftedness in a family of gifted individuals.

 

My family has a lot of hands-on folks who are not academically inclined as well as folks who like academics. Shellagh Gallagher talks about the distribution of certain personality characteristics in the gifted populations, and it's predominantly an N crowd (Meyers Briggs). I have a lot of S folks in my family, but we have a high rate of gifted individuals--many of my not-so-academic, hands-on relatives have the most highly gifted kids in the family. My husband's family has a strong contingent of hands-on people as well. These folks often excel in domains where they work with their hands or where those traits are really helpful in other ways; in fact, DH's grandfather had an 8th grade education, but the engineers he worked with deferred to his expertise without question. In my DH's family, nearly everyone is 2e, so that makes things look a bit different as well.

 

[wapiti]

I am talking about us, here, and the resources coming from families, either in the form of prep or just a highly educated parent staying at home. I haven't met a truly gifted kid in person. All the ones that I personally know made the OLSAT cut off for purposes of admission into NYC gifted programs were heavily workbooked.

Perhaps it depends on your own definition of "truly gifted." Levels of giftedness notwithstanding, most professionals (e.g. psychs) typically use a cutoff around the top 2% and I personally know a great many people who fit into that range - that's a lot of people. Maybe you are referring to highly or profoundly gifted (e.g. 99.9th percentile)?

 

As for NYC gifted programs, FWIW my dh attended Hunter and his friends from high school are all extremely bright, even though that was many years ago, before competiton got even tougher. (In my dh's case, his mom made him apply. Her own education topped out around 3rd grade in South America, but she's obviously pretty bright herself.)

[Kathy in Richmond]

Thanks. I thought tests are iteratively/periodically renormed to adjust for the Flynn effect, but maybe I misunderstood.

 

You might find this article by Deborah Ruf interesting.  Starting with page 2, there's a discussion of changes in IQ testing over the years from ratio based scoring to scores based on normal curve using standard deviations from the mean. Ratio scoring resulted in many more sky high IQs in the past than the current norm referenced tests like the WISC IV do today. The tables on pp 7-8 give numerical examples of how old & new scores compare. It quantifies what Crimson Wife was talking about upthread.

[Erin]

My husband barely passed high school. But I can, without hesitation, say that he is the smartest man I know.

Someone else has probably mentioned this and I just haven't read far enough, but this is VERY common for unidentified gifted kids, as well as 2Es.

 

PS: with regards to the OLSAT, I dont see much use in it. I have seen kids score barely above average on the OLSAT and the same day literally top the chart in one or more subtests of the accompanying standardized...

[Heathermomster]

I was very perplexed when my DS struggled so much early on.  After testing on his 8th birthday, we discovered he was 2e.  Now,  I apply my brain juice and skills to teaching DS in a way that encourages his learning.  

 

I have met many super smart, horrible people, and I prefer character above genius.

[Crimson Wife]

My middle brother barely graduated high school by the skin of his teeth, and I'm positive that if he hadn't grown up in a stable upper-middle-class family he would've dropped out. I was the Type A overachiever, salutatorian (and top female in my class), National Merit Finalist, National Honor Society, yadda, yadda, yadda. We both tested the exact same for IQ and our SAT's were within 10 points (though mine were skewed towards verbal and his was skewed towards math & spatial reasoning). The difference is that I was willing to "play the game" while he rebelled against any assignment he considered to be "busywork". He had the brains to do the work but didn't see the point.

[madteaparty]

I clearly need smarter friends ;)

My point is, this focus on exceptionally gifted children is currently a bit out of control and partially motivated by a certain anxiety in finding a way to ration sparse educational resources. I wonder if anyone did a study on gifted kids in say Finland or Poland.

It could be sour grapes on my part, not sure.

[La Condessa]

I do wonder about my older son (aka Dauntless). I mean he just turned two, so who knows what he'll be like when he's older, but over and over again I have started to worry about how very late he is reaching developmental milestones, to wonder if I should take him in to have him evaluated for some problem. Then I catch myself thinking this way, and stop to think about before I had kids, when I taught preschool/daycare to 2 year olds, would my son have seemed significantly delayed in that group? And the answer is always no, he would have seemed average to sometimes slower end of average, but still normal range. Except in gross motor things, there he would have been ahead of most (but still behind my girls).

 

It is so easy to start thinking something is wrong with him. Most recently I was nearly convinced that he was color blind (which runs in my family) because he's now two and still doesn't know his colors! I had to remind myself once again that he is still within the range of normal and there is nothing to worry about. He may be color blind, but there is a reason they don't test for color blindness until age 4 or 5

[8filltheheart]

Our kids, even though they say that IQs are supposedly close, "present" all over the place.   Only our Aspie has ever had testing and his IQ is high.   My kids individually seem high avg to very advanced.  I don't compare them to each other in terms of what I think they should be able to achieve.  I simply focus on helping them become the best "them" they can be (whatever that may be.)   So, while one of my kids only completed through pre-cal in high school, another took 3 semesters post cal BC.   They are who they are.   They achieve what they are capable of mastering. 

[Arcadia]

I don't know my own score, my hubby's score or my kids score. My hubby and I went through our own govt. gifted screening tests. I made it, he didn't. He has much better academic grades being a studious scholar while I didn't study and breeze through. Our pay when I worked were very close though to one another's so no effect it seems for IQ on pay. I am guessing that my cousins are MG, none had to study for university. They are mainly self employed in manufacturing. Their children didn't need to study either.

 

ETA:

My dad and brother are great at hands-on and struggle for academic. They have never taken an IQ test. My mom absorbs stuff like a sponge. She can take a short crash course in a foreign language that she has zero knowledge of and ace the exam.

 

My point is, this focus on exceptionally gifted children is currently a bit out of control and partially motivated by a certain anxiety in finding a way to ration sparse educational resources.

That is very area specific. My district resources are nearly all spent on ESL for the Spanish speaking. The Asians ESL students catch up on their own dime usually within a year. The SP and OT services take up whatever budget is left. The school librarians are still paid for with a "school librarian bond" paid with our property tax. Gifted programs have been scrap for many years. Parents of MG/HG/PG kids find their own ways and means for their kids "enrichment".

 

Further from my home, the schools hit more than 90% free/reduced lunch combined with a relatively high truancy rate. It is tough for the teachers there.

 

I don't see any focus on PG kids here. Those gifted kids that make the news here all have strong parental involvement in terms of parents time and money.

[madteaparty]

I think this is part of my point: scarce resources. In any event, this is making me sound like I care far more about the subject than I really do.

OP, if all else fails, I tell self I wouldn't want my kid to peak in [insert grade] :)

[AimeeM]

I've been wondering lately, do all "gifted" kids have to be accelerated? Are they not gifted if they are not accelerated? I know that is the focus of this particular board but in general I question if acceleration or early academic milestones has to be apart of the definition of gifted...

Couldn't your dd have a high IQ but just not have the personality (even just at this time) to accelerate?

I know there are a lot of kids, on this board especially and naturally considering its title, that seem to pull information straight out of thin air and that is how they are accelerated. But I really wonder if there are not many gifted kids who are not working ahead simply because they have not been taught the material above grade level and it is not their desire at this point to run ahead with the easily measured topics of math or reading. How far ahead a kid is in MAth in particular often seems like it is the measuring stick for gifted and I wonder how accurate that is or if it's fair to measure so many children by it...

Anyway, sorry to ramble. I guess my point is, it is maybe not so easy to know if I child is gifted. Not all will express their high iq in the same manner.

 

It is absolutely possible. I have one child in particular, identified as 2E, who simply has no motivation. While I know that it's a hated word on this site, she is "lazy". The minute she discovers that it requires work on her end, or there is any possibility of failure before success, she is no longer interested; sure she has passions, but she isn't passionate ENOUGH about those "passions" to work hard at them. It's simply her personality. Some of this is obviously her learning disability as well (dyslexic), but mostly? Her personality. Don't get me wrong - she is kind, loyal, opinionated, and ridiculously "justice minded". I would honestly say that her lack of motivation or ambition is her only "less than desirable" quality; she's a great kid all around, otherwise.

It also sometimes happens that a child's gift is not in something that they "enjoy" or are passionate about - which means they aren't incredibly motivated to accelerate in those areas; just because their brain is wired in that direction, doesn't mean their heart is.

 

[Crimson Wife]

My point is, this focus on exceptionally gifted children is currently a bit out of control and partially motivated by a certain anxiety in finding a way to ration sparse educational resources. I wonder

 

The people I see freaking out in my neck of the woods are the ones with bright but not gifted kids. They "hothouse" their kids to get and keep them 1-2 grades ahead. The folks I know whose kids are actually HG+ are being dragged along by their kids, not pushing them.

[mathnerd]

The difference is that I was willing to "play the game" while he rebelled against any assignment he considered to be "busywork". He had the brains to do the work but didn't see the point.

 

CW nailed it. If your child is not willing to play the game, hates busywork, has perfectionism issues and hence does not try new things, is trying to win friends by blending into a crowd of "non-gifted" kids, has 2e issues, is highly immature or has a poor work ethic, then that child may present  himself to the world as a "non-gifted" child. I had one of those kids that was looking to be "highly non-gifted" while my DH and I have been tested to have high IQs. I was worried that he might have 2e issues or some other problems like vision issues etc - so we tested him at 4 years old and it turns out that he is highly gifted, just not interested in what was being taught to him. We changed the content and the complexity of the material he was learning and the difference is like night and day.

So, do not call your child "non-gifted" until you test him and have some numbers in your hand. Your attitude towards work might not be the same as your child's attitude towards work.

[momdrowagoy]

CW nailed it. If your child is not willing to play the game, hates busywork, has perfectionism issues and hence does not try new things, is trying to win friends by blending into a crowd of "non-gifted" kids, has 2e issues, is highly immature or has a poor work ethic, then that child may present  himself to the world as a "non-gifted" child. I had one of those kids that was looking to be "highly non-gifted" while my DH and I have been tested to have high IQs. I was worried that he might have 2e issues or some other problems like vision issues etc - so we tested him at 4 years old and it turns out that he is highly gifted, just not interested in what was being taught to him. We changed the content and the complexity of the material he was learning and the difference is like night and day.

So, do not call your child "non-gifted" until you test him and have some numbers in your hand. Your attitude towards work might not be the same as your child's attitude towards work.

 

Well, we did have her tested with the WISC-IV and she tested high average, i.e. 115-120. Again, I am not trying to lament my child's not being gifted because of one test, but I am trying to figure out how to support her best wherever she is--which, I am realizing, I may not really be able to ascertain from one test.

[momdrowagoy]

I found this interesting in the results: "lt should be noted that this score is

offered with caution because some of the subtest scores making up this overall

score are quite uneven. When very uneven scores are averaged, it can make

ability levels seem more similar than they actually are. ln [child's name]'s case, she is

exceptionally strong in some abilities related to working with words, and more

solidly average in some types of problem solving that involves working with visual

information quickly."

[Arcadia]

ln [child's name]'s case, she is

exceptionally strong in some abilities related to working with words, and more

solidly average in some types of problem solving that involves working with visual

information quickly."

Maybe 2E, maybe uneven. If you want to post your child's scores and delete it later, some of the regulars here would be able to give you their opinion.

[momdrowagoy]

Maybe 2E, maybe uneven. If you want to post your child's scores and delete it later, some of the regulars here would be able to give you their opinion.

 

 

Whoops, I need to format it.