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#1 ----

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 06:05 AM

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#2 stripe

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 07:08 AM

I hear you.

I found an old copy of Dr Dolittle at a book sale. When I started to read it (luckily to myself only!) I found those same things. The newer edition has been cleaned up, as has Mary Poppins, which refered to pickaninnies. Gack. (I posted about it here with a link.) My kids listened to some of the fairy books from Librivox and asked me what a "negro servant boy" was. Gack! Then they asked about the "negress"! Certainly educational but not in the way I intended.

I have also found the "n" word in Nesbit's New Treasure Seekers and Eve Garnett's Further Adventures of the Family from One End Street.

And then there's the racist commentary in some non-fiction works.

Gack!

#3 mystika1

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 07:45 AM

I tried to use AO and had the same problem. There are way better book selections out there. I hear of so many people who love AO and I can't understand why. After taking out all of the books we didn't like, there really was not much left over.

Penny

#4 SRGS

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 08:05 AM

Is there a list somewhere of what books are "safe" to leave on our reading devices?


That would be appreciated, if it exists. I haven't personally encountered these things so far in our time reading AO Yr1 books but I've been sticking to the scheduled Lang fairy tales as I was already aware that the Blue book at least wasn't going to be on my child's free reading list. Thanks for the heads up about some of the other books.

#5 MomatHWTK

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 08:16 AM

I don't know if this will work, but once you've selected a title maybe you could do a search for reviews and it would give you some quick insight as to content. Surely other people have had the same concerns and hopefully some have posted a review?

#6 ----

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 10:45 AM

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#7 Mama2two

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 11:29 AM

I love the book list Elizabeth Foss has put together
http://www.elizabeth...com/real_books/

#8 raceNzanesmom

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 11:57 AM

I love the book list Elizabeth Foss has put together
http://www.elizabeth...com/real_books/


Thank you!!!!! :D

#9 BLA5

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 12:55 PM

I love the book list Elizabeth Foss has put together
http://www.elizabeth...com/real_books/


Thank you! I use Ambleside as one of my jumping off points when I compile our book lists each year, but I have learned that I do have to be sure to screen for content I do not want to explain to my younger elementary students.

#10 Bloggermom

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 12:59 PM

I ordered a bunch of books from their booklist and haven't even read through them. I have just been handing them to my kids to read. Now, I am wondering if I should pre-read them?

#11 serendipitous journey

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 04:22 PM

I ordered a bunch of books from their booklist and haven't even read through them. I have just been handing them to my kids to read. Now, I am wondering if I should pre-read them?


If you have purchased recently-printed books you'll have less trouble. A bought copy of Dr. Dolittle will not have the offensive words (unless it's a vintage bought copy), for example.

I do not use the Lang Fairy Books because I find them violent, distateful, and without clear moral or aesthetic value. There. I've never said it before. Many, many people enjoy them and their children enjoy them too, but I'm replacing the fairy tales with modern versions with illustrations I like and gentler storylines -- I find them on Amazon and try to get them through our library. I also try to find versions from a variety of cultures.

I really really like the AO system, but do ignore a lot of it. No martyrs; no Lang; etcetera. The focus on older books has given my children exposure to rich and unusual language, but I use it as an open guide, so that our Year 1 History readings included a generous dose of American History a la Eggleston (vintage, and some old fashioned terminology, but so far no racism or n* word, Eggleston was a Methodist minister and historian and was clearly a strong believer in the rights and inherent worth of all persons).

One CM site I've found very helpful is Milestones Academy. The woman who designed this curriculum is LDS (Mormon), and the religious instruction material is more isolated from the other readings than in Ambleside, she is specifically concerned with teaching an affection for and understanding of a variety of cultures, and also she is interested in helping large families so she plans history and science as shared topics. There are many CM sites, naturally, but this one is less well-known I think and worth visiting. I often feel refreshed & rejuvenated after spending some time at Milestones!

Edited by serendipitous journey, 21 April 2012 - 04:26 PM.


#12 Elizabeth in MN

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 04:30 PM

I had loved the idea of AO, but I found out a lot of the books are like this. Many are anti-Catholic, Anti-Semitic and Anti-LDS. The creators are aware of these issues but don't care to warn families ahead of time. Oh sure, if anything has MAGIC in it you get a fat warning, but not another thing.

For me, that was what turned me away from AO.

#13 tuesdayschild

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 05:05 PM

I don't have time to preread every single book on dd's Kindle,

I don't have a specific list to share .. there are some great ones floating around on the forums here though. But then again I don't like every book others have included in their list - so pre-screening is a given for us.

I use to refer to Honey for Child's Heart in our earlier year - again some of those books just don't suit our family.

We use booklists as a leaping off point, I like to pre-read as many of the books I can, or listen to them on audio (for discussion value ... and for content;)).

Hope you manage to find something that will work better for you & yours.

Perhaps you're about to start creating a *new* list for others to enjoy?? :tongue_smilie:

#14 serendipitous journey

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 09:05 PM

... just remembered that This Country of Ours has been a problem for many, and there are other great American history alternatives (Eggleston for early years, Hakim's series, esp. the pithier one put out by K12, &c).

#15 serendipitous journey

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 09:28 PM

I had loved the idea of AO, but I found out a lot of the books are like this. Many are anti-Catholic, Anti-Semitic and Anti-LDS. The creators are aware of these issues but don't care to warn families ahead of time. Oh sure, if anything has MAGIC in it you get a fat warning, but not another thing.

For me, that was what turned me away from AO.


you are right ... this summary made me :) b/c we're a secular humanist family. So, are quite used to being described as de facto godless communist-fascists with no moral imperative other than the furthering of the species ... :D

#16 Mama2two

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 05:52 AM

Thank you! I use Ambleside as one of my jumping off points when I compile our book lists each year, but I have learned that I do have to be sure to screen for content I do not want to explain to my younger elementary students.


You're welcome! I love her book and have used much of her curriculum for ideas.

#17 sagira

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:00 AM

One CM site I've found very helpful is Milestones Academy. The woman who designed this curriculum is LDS (Mormon), and the religious instruction material is more isolated from the other readings than in Ambleside, she is specifically concerned with teaching an affection for and understanding of a variety of cultures, and also she is interested in helping large families so she plans history and science as shared topics. There are many CM sites, naturally, but this one is less well-known I think and worth visiting. I often feel refreshed & rejuvenated after spending some time at Milestones!


Thank you for this link! I love the ideas for foreign language, and the fourth grade booklists look great too.

I've used and enjoyed Mara Pratt's American History Stories so far, but just the day before yesterday, in the third volume (we had read two with no major issues, just a quick substitution and short discussion), the talk on slavery began. Although in her time Ms. Pratt must have been considered modern and equal in her view, some of what she says made me shudder, like a concurrence with the idea that blacks are "dumber" and some other ugly mentions. Yikes. I will have to pre-read next time, and now I'm worried about the whole collection of Andrew Lang's fairy tales I downloaded!

Edited by sagira, 22 April 2012 - 08:05 AM.


#18 stripe

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 11:42 AM

Andrew Lang's fairy tales are not coarse. They just contain the usual murder and mayhem of a lot of fairy tales, and in fact less so than collections like Grimms, and there are occasionally black characters (often in servant roles, but not always) who are called "negroes." There is no use of the "n-word" that I've seen.

The English Fairy Tales collected by Jacobs leaves out "scandalous" details like (gasp) childbirth and obscures the profession of a midwife, making her simply a nurse. ;)

#19 mhaddon

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 11:47 AM

Oh I didn't realize this! Good to know, I wish they'd but maybe a note next to these books :(

I will say I will not completely leave these out, but would like to know to read ahead and make a decision on what to do, or how to approach the subject because these things will come up in real life. Unfortunately.

#20 nmoira

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 12:20 PM

I hear you.

I found an old copy of Dr Dolittle at a book sale. When I started to read it (luckily to myself only!) I found those same things. The newer edition has been cleaned up, as has Mary Poppins, which refered to pickaninnies. Gack. (I posted about it here with a link.) My kids listened to some of the fairy books from Librivox and asked me what a "negro servant boy" was. Gack! Then they asked about the "negress"! Certainly educational but not in the way I intended.

I have also found the "n" word in Nesbit's New Treasure Seekers and Eve Garnett's Further Adventures of the Family from One End Street.

And then there's the racist commentary in some non-fiction works.

Gack!

Penrod (Y6, IIRC) is one you won't want to leave lying around. I was torn about this one, as there's so much in the book to love. We ended up doing it as a read aloud.

#21 stripe

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 01:53 PM

Well, I am not using Ambleside's lists, so I haven't seen Penrod, but thanks for the warning. I appreciated the reminded to take a look at Milestones Academy. I'd bookmarked it but forgotten about it.


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