My cautionary tale

[lauranc]

I have been on this board for 10 years. I now have one daughter graduating high school and one daughter entering her junior year.

 

A theme that I have seen a few times is whether or not parents will be paying for their children's college. I have read posts that say "No way' date=' no how. I will help my children get every academic advantage out there, therefore ensuring scholarships and grants, but their college expense is theirs. No one will loan me money for my retirement, so I will be paying for that and you will be paying for college."

 

That sounded like a great plan to me. We already homeschooled with an agressive eye towards high acheivement. When the girls went back into public school in grades 8 and 10 they both were advanced a year because they were so strong academically.

 

When my oldest daughter applied to colleges she presented what I thought to be a very well rounded resume:

* 7 AP classes (scores of 4's and 5's earning her AP Scholar with Honors)

* National Honor Society

* Top 15% of her class

* All A's and B's in her classes

* Captain and Lead Attorney of the Mock Trial team (the team took 2nd place in the state championship this year)

* Secretary of the History & Politics Debate Team

* President of the Community Outreach Club

* Lead pianist in the Jazz Band

* Varsity Volleyball

* Chosen to attend Girls State

* attended Outward Bound

 

Her SAT scores were 1980, which is not stellar but certainly strong enough. Her GPA was 4.07. Her resume was a mix of academics, sports, music and volunteer. She also was awarded the Congressional Award (Bronze medal) showing over 250 hours of volunteer work amongst other acheivements. She was the first student in our town to ever be awarded this.

 

So, I thought we were putting forth a very well-rounded, strong student. We made our list of 3 reach schools, 4 middle schools, and 2 safety schools. She was waitlisted at her reach schools and accepted everywhere else.

 

She also received some good scholarships. 1 school gave her $44,000 over 4 years. Another gave her $60,000 over 4 years. Sounds great, right?

 

We received nothing in financial aid. We are considered middle class.

 

So here is the problem. The schools that gave her scholarships cost close to $50,000 per year. So that leaves about a $30,000 - 38,000 a year gap in tuition. There is no way I am having her be $100K+ in debt for an undergrad degree. And, there is no way for her to even apply for such money. They only allow students to take out $5,500 in loans freshman year, a little bit more in the subsequent years.

 

 

My husband and I have about 30K saved for their college, and yet it will be a drop in the bucket.[/quote']

 

I am glad you posted this. We are currently having our eye-opening moment as well. My oldest will be a senior, and we were doing what we thought was 'right': putting money towards our own retirement.. It was always said that you can't take out a loan for retirement, but kids can take out student loans.

 

Yes... but... if a Freshman can only take $5500 that first year, where does the rest of the money come from? We hoped, like you, that our child was going to get some merit aid. He hasn't applied for univ. yet, but the more I talk to other moms of children who have done a *whole lot* more than my son---- I have to say, I'm losing hope.

 

So we are scrambling to save .. and save.. and save.

 

We will not be making this mistake again with our other kids. We're saving now for their education.

 

In-state tuition is $16,000-20,000 here... I remember when my $5,500 in student loans covered my entire first year of college. I believe I even had some left over. Not the case anymore.

[Soror]

We do plan on dc's attending CC and living at home. Yes, I would love them to have that *experience* but I don't think the debt is worth it and believe it is a good transition time as well. They will also be attending State University, unless aid makes it worth it to attend elsewhere. We will have some to help but no we don't plan to pay it all. I think we have to be realistic in our expectations in what we can afford- whether it be college/house/car/etc. I just checked local costs here and they are no where near that expensive, but it is a low wage/COL area. State is less than half of that and CC is less than 1/4.

[lauranc]

While I can empathize, it is expensive, also consider that her 7 AP exams with 4 and 5 scores take 7 classes off her requirements, saving money since she'll finish sooner.

 

She can also look at the option to do CLEP exams for subjects she's confident she'll be able to master independently, take the exams and save thousands by doing that. It is one of the things I did to shave years off my undergrad studies that I was paying for myself and graduated debt-free going to a private university that was very expensive.

 

 

 

Unfortunately, not all universities accept CLEPs, AP exam scores etc.. for opting out of classes. The univ. my oldest has as first on his list (in-state) happens to only allow up to 2 AP exam scores for opting out, and similar with the CLEP. Of course, he'll do what he can.. but to assume the kid will be able to opt out in order to save money is not always accurate.

[Night Elf]

Yes but college debt and the cost of college are exponentially more than it was 20 to 30 years year even when inflation is taken into consideration.

 

I agree that retirement is important and that students should try to pay their way for college but today it is like climbing Mount Everest instead of walking up a knoll.

 

Yes, but the attitude I'm hearing is that kids shouldn't have to spend that much so it's the parents who should do it instead. That is my problem with this argument. I don't have 50K lying around for a college education anymore than my child does. That 50K is going to have to be spent. I maintain it's the child's responsibility to pay it and not mine.

[Onceuponatime]

I understand wanting your kids to have the "college experience". But in your reality, I would be considering community college.

 

:iagree: I don't believe the "college experience" is worth the price. We went the community college route for the first 2 years worth of general ed. credits, then to a very good state school for the rest. Our son will be graduating with a master of accounting, about $25,000 in debt, and a job already lined up that will pay for a reasonably comfortable lifestyle.

 

I believe what really matters is the student showing themselves to be a cut above the rest, no matter where they find themselves. Opportunities then open up.

 

There are many roads to the same goal. Yes, some may not be what you dreamed, but isn't that always the way life works?

[magnificent_baby]

The situation is very different. Night and day. And Hell to the Yes about state school 'fees'. It's a sick and sad joke.

 

It is crazy. My nephew had a $5 fee because he is a senior. No other reason, just because he was a senior. While it may only be $5, that is rediculous!!

[Amy in TX]

Don't frown on the CC experience. It is also a college experience albeit a different one.

 

:iagree:Multiple studies have proved that going to a "big name" university doesn't necessarily equate with a better job in the real world. Most state universities are more than adequate for an undergrad degree.

 

We did save. We also have investments that aren't doing as well as we had hoped. This is a tough economy.

 

Our plan is to use the cc and/or our closest state uni, commuting by bus. Yes, we have saved, but with the way investments have tanked over the last 7-8 years it will not be enough for four kids. And we don't want our dc to graduate with massive debt in this economy. And yes, it is a 45-minute commute each way, but work can be done on the bus. It's not unusual where we live (Houston) and many young people we know are doing this.

[justasque]

I also agree that test scores can be a key factor. For better or worse, colleges typically use grades and test scores as a line of demarcation for consideration for merit scholarships.

 

This has been our experience too. Two of my kids, and several of their cousins, have gotten significant merit money based largely on their near-perfect test scores. (Not bragging, just being specific.) As I understand it, the reason is that schools are ranked/percieved based in part on their enrolled students' average test scores, so it benefits them to encourage students who will bring up the average SAT, and/or bring up the number of PSAT Merit Scholars, to choose their school, and they do this by offering merit money. (The better the school - Ivies - the less merit money, as they expect all of their students to have good scores, and their reputation is such that they are less concerned about the rankings.) For better or for worse, it is how the game is played.

[Plucky]

It is crazy. My nephew had a $5 fee because he is a senior. No other reason, just because he was a senior. While it may only be $5, that is rediculous!!

 

The new student fee was $272 at our uni. Ugh.

[Paige]

I'm not sure that college is such a good investment anymore. I will not go into debt or pay astronomical fees for a degree that may have very little value. I think the "college experience" is a worthwhile experience and good to have. I don't think it is worth what is being charged. I think a summer trip sailing around the world is a good experience, but I don't have the money for that either. We are saving for our kids but we probably won't end up with $100,000 per kid.

 

I am telling my kids that they will have to work hard if they want a scholarship. I am telling them that we will not pay for expensive or out of state schools. I will encourage them to learn a trade either through vocational school or an apprenticeship. This would give them the ability to fund their own education- even if it is just a few classes at a time, and they may be able to find a job with tuition reimbursement. I have a MA and it is pretty worthless, IMO. I'd be sick if I had a ton of debt for it or if my parents had paid a ton. I was lucky to receive scholarships. I don't think that college as we experienced it will be around much longer and I don't think it should be for all except the most technical degrees.

 

It's not that I think college is a bad choice for anyone these days and I would like my kids to earn a degree if they need it to have the kind of job they want, but I'd prefer that my kids go into college later. I'd like them to enter college with some other work experience and hopefully as more mature students who know what they want and aren't going to waste time and money on degrees they end up not using in careers they find they don't care for. I think we need to back away from the idea that credentialing through college is necessary. A degree in women's studies??? Um...no.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Paige

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Yes, but the attitude I'm hearing is that kids shouldn't have to spend that much so it's the parents who should do it instead. That is my problem with this argument. I don't have 50K lying around for a college education anymore than my child does. That 50K is going to have to be spent. I maintain it's the child's responsibility to pay it and not mine.

 

I agree with you that students should take some responsibility but I am also saying that our country needs to find a solution to this problem asap since many families and students cannot afford this burden of excessive college costs.

[CalicoKat]

What about the College Plus type programs? Are they potentially a replacement for the typical college experience for us working poor?

 

I'm not there yet with only one kids in 8th grade next year. But it's close enough to make me very nervous.

[Plucky]

This has been our experience too. Two of my kids, and several of their cousins, have gotten significant merit money based largely on their near-perfect test scores. (Not bragging, just being specific.) As I understand it, the reason is that schools are ranked/percieved based in part on their enrolled students' average test scores, so it benefits them to encourage students who will bring up the average SAT, and/or bring up the number of PSAT Merit Scholars, to choose their school, and they do this by offering merit money. (The better the school - Ivies - the less merit money, as they expect all of their students to have good scores, and their reputation is such that they are less concerned about the rankings.) For better or for worse, it is how the game is played.

 

It depends on the school. My ds received a lot of merit money from one school, not the one he chose. Yep, I know, but it's his life, too.

[Night Elf]

Deleted. My information is wrong and misleading.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Night Elf

[lauranc]

This is one of the things I find puzzling. I was in school a year ago and dd19 has filled out the FAFSA for the upcoming fall. We were both awarded $5,500 per semester. That's okay for us because the actual costs, including tuition, mandatory fees, and books is less than that. It would definitely suck to get $5,500 for the whole year.

 

FWIW, I don't expect any other aid besides loans. My kids are average students. They don't have the fancy transcripts with a long list of achievements.

 

I'm interested in this... you got $5500 *per semester*? This kind of gives me a bit of hope. :) Student loans or grants (if you don't mind me asking)

[Night Elf]

I agree with you that students should take some responsibility but I am also saying that our country needs to find a solution to this problem asap since many families and students cannot afford this burden of excessive college costs.

 

Oh yes, I agree. It's seems to be a vicious circle. Jobs are hard to get without a college education and a college education is hard to get because of the prohibitive costs.

 

I've been helping dd19 fill out an application for cc. She's doing it to please me but she doesn't seem enthusiastic. I told her if she didn't think she wanted to go, she shouldn't waste the money. Back in my day, you could try college for a quarter or two and not be too much in debt. I told her to accept only as much loan that will pay her tuition, fees and books. She'll live at home and have a part-time job. But that still means it will cost her about $2,000 just to try a semester. That seems rather ridiculous, actually.

[Kertie]

I'm not there as a parent yet, but I've been there as a student. I wouldn't set community college aside--I had to go that route, and I'm really glad I did. Best 2 years of my life. And yes, I did transfer and had the "college experience". Fun, but not thousands upon thousands of dollars fun;).

 

Good luck to you and your family!

[StaceyinLA]

As a data point, for Penn State (main campus), tuition is around $15K for freshmen. Doesn't sound too bad, right? Now add $860 in required fees, $9420 room and board, books & supplies $1500, Transport $800 (obviously will vary based on your location), "other expenses" $3200. You're up to around $31K. (Times 4 years = 124K. What kid can make that kind of money, especially while going to school?) If your home was nearby, you could live at home and go without the room, but you still have to eat, buy books, get to and from campus, and buy incidentals.

__________

 

If you take that $9400 off for room and board, you've dropped the price pretty significantly. My kids eat at home. They always have, so this isn't an extra college expense. If they aren't living on campus, they can still eat here like they always have. The "other expenses" won't cover gas and miscellaneous things like getting to campus and other incidentals.

 

I'm not saying it's CHEAP by any stretch, but much more doable if they live at home.

 

We are an hour from LSU. I would much rather foot the bill for my son's gas a few days/week than pay 10k for him to live on campus.

[DianeW88]

I'm interested in this... you got $5500 *per semester*? This kind of gives me a bit of hope. :) Student loans or grants (if you don't mind me asking)

 

No. Freshman get $5500 per year. Those are loans that need to be paid back. If you get a grant on top of that, that doesn't need to be paid back.

[Night Elf]

Deleted. My information is wrong and misleading.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Night Elf

[Night Elf]

No. Freshman get $5500 per year. Those are loans that need to be paid back. If you get a grant on top of that, that doesn't need to be paid back.

 

Well, my dd would be a freshman but I was a senior. Do they give seniors more? I know mine was per semester because I had to physically accept whatever portion of money I wanted for each semester. I could take out two different amounts for the different semesters. I'm fairly certain my dd's FAFSA said the same thing. Now you're making me want to go look. If she only got it for the year, does that mean she will get more when she's a sophmore and above? We don't get grants. DH makes too much money.

[lauranc]

No. Freshman get $5500 per year. Those are loans that need to be paid back. If you get a grant on top of that, that doesn't need to be paid back.

 

Yeah.. I was asking about her specific experience. I know, painfully well, that they only get $5500 a yr in loans. :eek: I thought she said she got $5500 per semester, and wondered if that may have been a combination of loans and grants, or if she got some kind of 'super-loan'. :)

[FairProspects]

Honestly, we have been saving since ds was born, but there is no way we can keep up with the rise in costs by the time he will be ready for college. We are going to have to hope from some support from our families (as well as loans or a bubble burst). There are downsides to my kids being the only grandkids on both sides, such as no cousins, but there are upsides of help with college as well.

[lauranc]

Yes, we were both awarded one subsidized loan and one unsubsidized loan for a max total of $5,500 per semester. But it makes sense that we both qualified for the same thing. Both of our FAFSAs were based solely on my DH's salary.

 

Thanks. Also.. yes, (to the question in your other post) Freshman $5500, Sophomores $6500... and then I think Juniors and Seniors can take out $7500 a year. (loans that is)

[DianeW88]

Well, my dd would be a freshman but I was a senior. Do they give seniors more? I know mine was per semester because I had to physically accept whatever portion of money I wanted for each semester. I could take out two different amounts for the different semesters. I'm fairly certain my dd's FAFSA said the same thing. Now you're making me want to go look. If she only got it for the year, does that mean she will get more when she's a sophmore and above? We don't get grants. DH makes too much money.

 

Yes, seniors do get more. It's approximately $1,000 per year added on for each year of school you complete. So, sophs would get $6,500 per year, juniors $7,500 and seniors $8,500. At least that's what it was for 2011-2012 school year. I haven't done the FAFSA for next year yet. And heaven knows, there's always something new!! :D

[LibraryLover]

I agree with you that students should take some responsibility but I am also saying that our country needs to find a solution to this problem asap since many families and students cannot afford this burden of excessive college costs.

 

 

That's exactly it. :iagree:

[Night Elf]

Yes, seniors do get more. It's approximately $1,000 per year added on for each year of school you complete. So, sophs would get $6,500 per year, juniors $7,500 and seniors $8,500. At least that's what it was for 2011-2012 school year. I haven't done the FAFSA for next year yet. And heaven knows, there's always something new!! :D

 

Ah.! Then I was wrong about dd19 I guess. Oh well, it's still okay for us because the cc's tuition and fees is only $1,700/semester. That I know for a fact because I just went and calculated it again. Tuition is $82.34 per credit hour. It's $99 per credit hour for an online course.

[Night Elf]

Duplicate post, darn this lag time.

[Joyofsixreboot]

It depends on you and yours. My kids got scholarships, commute an hour each way (1 at state school, one at private school) and work part time along with taking an overload.. It's not fun and games but dh and I won't take on debt and they don't want to either.

[ksr5377]

As someone who just kept taking on loans because getting a degree was so important and then ended up with over $60,000 to pay back and only working 2 years before becoming a SAHM.....I don't think it's worth it. Yes my "college experience" was wonderful and I truly enjoyed it. At the time I probably would have been resentful if my parents said I had to go to a CC for the first two years to offset costs. However, today I SO wish that would have happened. My parents also took out PLUS loans. I hate that they are paying on those while at the same time trying to put my youngest siblings through college. DH and I have discussed at length what a wonderful gift it would be to enable our children to get a degree without taking on piles of debt. If they have to go to CC in order to help make that happen, so be it.

[Liz CA]

I suppose it depends on what college is supposed to accomplish. I was hoping that ds would get a somewhat basic education for an undergrad degree. We did not desire any particular college experience, in fact, and I may be misunderstanding this phrase, we would rather he'd keep his college experiences to studying. He is going the community college route. The state university here is known for "offering" a variety of other, not desirable, experiences.

We are fortunate that there is a state university in the town where ds lives but he cannot live with us while he attends there because it would be a 2 hour round trip. He will work part-time, live in shared housing, tap into his modest college fund and we will try to come up with the rest.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Liz CA

[Liz CA]

I understand wanting your kids to have the "college experience". But in your reality, I would be considering community college.

 

This is the route we chose. Could someone elaborate on the phrase "college experience"?

[Tree Frog]

Yes, we were both awarded one subsidized loan and one unsubsidized loan for a max total of $5,500 per semester. But it makes sense that we both qualified for the same thing. Both of our FAFSAs were based solely on my DH's salary.

 

If students are able to take out ony $5500/year, how do they have such large loans when they graduate?

 

We're just heading into this...DD is a sophomore and we've saved some, but also anticipated each child paying a significant portion of their own education. We won't be taking out loans for our children to attend school, but would like them to have the opportunity to further themselves educationally.

[Jane in NC]

She can also look at the option to do CLEP exams for subjects she's confident she'll be able to master independently, take the exams and save thousands by doing that. It is one of the things I did to shave years off my undergrad studies that I was paying for myself and graduated debt-free going to a private university that was very expensive.

 

My son's college does not give credit for CLEP exams. In fact, it seems that more schools are limiting the number of credits via CLEP and AP (as another poster noted) or use these tests for placement purposes. I do not suggest ignoring things like AP since they can be a good way of justifying those Mommy grades. But they may not shave years off of undergrad in today's college world.

 

 

While it wasn't an option when I was going to college, look at options for online classes that can be transferred to her transcript - from what I've seen looking online, often community colleges have online classes offered that are much less expensive and the credits transfer.

 

Check with the college! Online programs are uneven. Some colleges are not accepting credits from online programs but they may accept online offerings from brick and mortar schools. I would also investigating success rates in some of those online classes. In my field (mathematics), I have met few students who have enjoyed, let alone succeeded, in an online class.

[ksr5377]

If students are able to take out ony $5500/year, how do they have such large loans when they graduate?

 

We're just heading into this...DD is a sophomore and we've saved some, but also anticipated each child paying a significant portion of their own education. We won't be taking out loans for our children to attend school, but would like them to have the opportunity to further themselves educationally.

 

There is a limit on the amount of FEDERAL loans that are granted. There are an overwhelming number of institutions willing and ready to offer PRIVATE student loans.

[EKS]

Amazingly, in other developed countries, university is considered part of the public schooling package, and is close to free. What a concept.

[melissel]

ETA: Never mind, I was looking at the wrong number...

Edited April 18, 2012 by melissel

[Jpoy85]

Can she get a FASFA loan?

[LibraryLover]

Amazingly, in other developed countries, university is considered part of the public schooling package, and is close to free. What a concept.

 

 

My BIL in Europe was able to put 4 kids through college without serious negative financial ramifications to his own future, or theirs. Something has got to give here.

Edited April 19, 2012 by LibraryLover
clarity

[Night Elf]

If students are able to take out ony $5500/year, how do they have such large loans when they graduate?

 

Well, first, my info. about how much my dd got was wrong, so i deleted those posts. :tongue_smilie:

 

As for your question, I think that is the point people are trying to make. If school is so much more per year than what a student can get in loans, somebody has to make up that difference. Either someone pays it out of pocket or they have to find a way to get more loans.

[amy g.]

I visited a friend who is teaching graduate school in Paris this semester. She showed me an email from a GRADUATE student who had not been to class at all, but was complaining about an assignment that was basically a 5 paragraph essay. She had the nerve to use the word unfair.

 

My friend is failing more than 50% of her students. They do not take their free education seriously at all.

[Jane in NC]

If students are able to take out ony $5500/year, how do they have such large loans when they graduate?

 

We're just heading into this...DD is a sophomore and we've saved some, but also anticipated each child paying a significant portion of their own education. We won't be taking out loans for our children to attend school, but would like them to have the opportunity to further themselves educationally.

 

The $5500 is the amount of the freshman Stafford loan for which any student filling out the FAFSA qualifies. The amount increases to $6500, then $7500 for subsequent years. These loans are in the student's name and total $26K for the four years if students opt to take them (no one is forced!)

 

As someone else noted, the banks would love to have parents borrow.

 

By the way, the old trick of declaring financial independence from parents rarely works anymore unless a student gets married. A few years ago, poster Kareni offered to become our Well Trained matchmaker. ;)

[creekland]

This has been our experience too. Two of my kids, and several of their cousins, have gotten significant merit money based largely on their near-perfect test scores. (Not bragging, just being specific.) As I understand it, the reason is that schools are ranked/percieved based in part on their enrolled students' average test scores, so it benefits them to encourage students who will bring up the average SAT, and/or bring up the number of PSAT Merit Scholars, to choose their school, and they do this by offering merit money. (The better the school - Ivies - the less merit money, as they expect all of their students to have good scores, and their reputation is such that they are less concerned about the rankings.) For better or for worse, it is how the game is played.

 

:iagree: We've been fortunate with the merit aid too, but a good bit of that was selecting colleges my guys applied to VERY carefully. Colleges are not the same with their academics nor their aid. Oldest had a lesser (but still good) ACT (31) and he got merit aid at all three places he applied. Middle was higher and had many more options, but his was VERY high.

 

 

I also agree that test scores can be a key factor. For better or worse, colleges typically use grades and test scores as a line of demarcation for consideration for merit scholarships.

 

One needs to look for colleges where the student is into the top 25% of students applying, but not so top that they are bored and not challenged. Then, make sure the school offers merit aid - not all do.

 

I don't think that college as we experienced it will be around much longer and I don't think it should be for all except the most technical degrees.

 

 

I disagree with this. In spite of costs, most colleges are seeing increases in applications, not decreases. Some of that is coming from international students. Five of the six colleges middle son applied to this year had increases in applications - more than ever before in history if their letters and stats are to be believed. Acceptance rates were down.

 

And a note to many reading this thread. There are some schools known for meeting 100% of NEED (not merit) aid to all or most of their accepted students. Run an EFC calculator. If your EFC is less than your state schools, chances are, your student would do better if they can get accepted to one of these schools. Some are top notch (Harvard, Yale), others next level down (Vanderbilt, University of Rochester), and some are further down than that (Syracuse - I think I read they were, Franklin & Marshall). None of these are "low" level schools, but they are the types to look for and apply to if need is great. Note - you will still be expected to come up with your EFC in most cases.

 

Merit aid is out there, but one needs to apply carefully and have high stats - then one should have financial safeties as well as one never knows what one gets until the results are back. One school middle son applied to (Furman) wanted us to pay $30,000+ and still have him take out the $5500 in loans. I think not. Other schools were much better opportunities.

 

All others beat the cost of community college (for him - high stats).

[LibraryLover]

I visited a friend who is teaching graduate school in Paris this semester. She showed me an email from a GRADUATE student who had not been to class at all, but was complaining about an assignment that was basically a 5 paragraph essay. She had the nerve to use the word unfair.

 

My friend is failing more than 50% of her students. They do not take their free education seriously at all.

 

 

I know my nieces and nephews were all good students and have good jobs today. They didn't blow it. Some people are lazy no matter what.

[Danestress]

Amazingly, in other developed countries, university is considered part of the public schooling package, and is close to free. What a concept.

 

I can't imagine having that work here. First of all, Americans are not willing to hear "sorry, we only pay for the most gifted kids to go to college. If you didn't do well in high school, you are out of luck." We want even very average, less ambitious kids to go to college. We believe our lazier, less studious kids will grow into it.

 

Secondly, if Americans are not willing to save to send their OWN kids to college, why do we believe they would be willing to pay more taxes to send some else's kids to college? I mean, they money has to come from somewhere, right? We still wouldn't have the money for our retirement funds/vacation plans/second homes/new cars. It's just a matter of who pays the taxes? I personally can't see taxing the generation that already paid for their own kids' college so that this generation can graduate on their dime.

[creekland]

This is the route we chose. Could someone elaborate on the phrase "college experience"?

 

For hubby and I (and our kids), it's the opportunity to have 4 years in a place where there are others of their age sharing their enthusiasm for life and academics. It doesn't include drinking or partying for any of us, but rather, the chance to explore new areas of thought, new extra curricular activities, and new friendships without the hassle of everyday life (job, house payments, and everything that comes with regular "adulthood"). You often have the same friends for 4 years (essentially) and continue those friendships into adulthood. You root for the same teams. You talk about the same classroom experiences. You have connections with alumni who may be years apart from you. And, in the process, you gain an education that sets you up for life. It's wonderful when one gets the correct match of college to student. It can be horrid if one mismatches either the academic level or personality of the school to student.

 

My guys aren't going to miss it, but we're also not going oodles of dollars into debt (nor are they) and we simply can't afford to pay a ton as the economy took care of most of our savings. We're just being a ton more careful in making our applications.

[Stacy in NJ]

There really is no way around it. I could tell her to go to community college for two years and then transfer' date=' but that circumvents that whole college experience that we also think is important. Commuting 45 minutes each way to a community college and then coming home at night to do their homework .... not really what we had in mind for their "college experience".[/b']

My husband and I have about 30K saved for their college, and yet it will be a drop in the bucket.

 

After two years at the CC, they'd then be able to have that college experience with little or no debt.

 

Honestly, I think the value of being debt free and having an adequate retirement account far out-weighs the value of the "college experience", a college experience they'd still get to enjoy, although of shorter duration.

 

Holding onto the idealized dream of a 4-year on campus college lifestyle is really expensive and possibly not rational.

[G5052]

We're just a few years away now, but my friends with older kids are finding the same thing. There isn't a lot of merit aid unless you're a National Merit scholar, and even then, you have to consider the whole picture.

 

We have some resources that I intend to use that way, but it will only cover the state schools that they can commute to. Or maybe a gap year of working, community college, and then a state residential school.

 

I put myself through residential college with minimum-wage jobs and a few scholarships. College costs are so steep now that doing that is far less doable than it was 30 years ago.

[MrsBear]

My son's college does not give credit for CLEP exams. In fact, it seems that more schools are limiting the number of credits via CLEP and AP (as another poster noted) or use these tests for placement purposes. I do not suggest ignoring things like AP since they can be a good way of justifying those Mommy grades. But they may not shave years off of undergrad in today's college world.

 

True, which is why one should research the various schools and what they will accept. Here in Missouri, MU accepts and credits both CLEP and AP as long as the student has not completed 90 credit hours at the point the AP or CLEP credits are requested. There are different numbers of credits allowed in the different programs, but some are very generous and these types of credits can save a lot of time and a ton of money. But, you do have to do some research before just thinking they'll count.

 

 

Check with the college! Online programs are uneven. Some colleges are not accepting credits from online programs but they may accept online offerings from brick and mortar schools. I would also investigating success rates in some of those online classes. In my field (mathematics), I have met few students who have enjoyed, let alone succeeded, in an online class.

Absolutely agree! Most schools have online what credits will transfer and under what circumstances - again, one needs to do their research and see what will make sense if they opt to do some courses online. If someone can do an online course for the core English requirement for $500 versus $1500 in the classroom, it totally makes sense financially to do it online....you do need to make sure beforehand that it'll transfer and count though!

[creekland]

Amazingly, in other developed countries, university is considered part of the public schooling package, and is close to free. What a concept.

 

Yeah, and public school (K 12) is free here too with such great results... When one doesn't have skin in the game it can change how much they care. I'm even pro "basic loans" for needy students for that reason. I wouldn't suggest tons of debt, but I do like seeing them have skin in the game.