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Difference between Ace Paces and CLE LU's???


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#1 MrsMe

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 05:17 PM

They look to be the same except for color and perhaps less twaddle in the Paces area. I know CLE is spiral, but not sure on Paces?

Wondering your thoughts on English Paces?

#2 joyofsix

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 05:30 PM

They are very different. CLE requires quite a bit of deeper thinking. Paces, IMHO, is just fill in the blank, plug and chug.

#3 MrsMe

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 05:45 PM

That's my thought, however, I thought perhaps I was wrong as I couldn't really get enough real info on Paces.

#4 Alyeska

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 05:47 PM

We use ACE math and it is mastery.

My dd does exceptionally well with it...it is the first time that she has had math she can understand and retain. :)

I couldn't tell you about other subjects...sorry.

#5 SilverMoon

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 06:33 PM

They are very different. CLE requires quite a bit of deeper thinking. Paces, IMHO, is just fill in the blank, plug and chug.


This was my experience as a child. If you're good at reading comprehension and memorizing you can get straight A's without really knowing what you just did.

#6 Hunter

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 08:16 PM

Paces are based on a quality public school scope and sequence.

CLE and AO are based on a private school scope and sequence, and then squished into a public school number of pages.

Squishing high expectations into too few pages is possible in the early grades, when mom can talk the child through the pages. As the child moves into material where the mom is less confident, or if she is expecting the child to work independently, CLE's and AO's "better" lessons don't seem better to a LOT of families.

ACE is more doable than CLE and AO. It was designed to be used by poorly educated adults, teaching children recently pulled out of public school. It's rooted in REALITY, when it comes to expectations. It designed to facilitate STEADY progress, and to make sure the PRIORITIES are covered.

ACE is not perfect, but it's an important tool that is a lifesaver for many families. ACE for elementary and American School for high school are my only recommendations for certain families.

#7 MrsMe

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 08:24 PM

mmmm....interesting, but isn't sounding like something we don't want to try. I was hoping it was "like" CLE but more mastery and less twaddle.(sigh)....but the not so good reviews are doing it in for me.

Edited by alilac, 14 April 2012 - 10:50 AM.


#8 Hunter

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 08:50 PM

There is a lot of 1980s Bible Belt style preaching and story telling added to all the lessons. It is NOT politically correct and the nicknames for the characters are horrifying to some families.

It's solid, but the frosting isn't to my taste, if you know what I mean.

#9 MrsMe

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 09:04 PM

There is a lot of 1980s Bible Belt style preaching and story telling added to all the lessons. It is NOT politically correct and the nicknames for the characters are horrifying to some families.

It's solid, but the frosting isn't to my taste, if you know what I mean.


LOL Hunter. This is funny to me. I'm far from a politically correct person and probably would find most of it comical. :lol: But the review are not blowing my skirt up.

#10 JaneP

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 07:26 AM

:lurk5:

#11 Hunter

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 07:50 AM

LOL Hunter. This is funny to me. I'm far from a politically correct person and probably would find most of it comical. :lol: But the review are not blowing my skirt up.


I used to be angered by views I didn't agree with, then I went through a stage of finding things humorous, but then a smart lady here, showed me that we are setting an example to our students in GENERAL, when they watch us react to curriculum.

Now even though it's a book, I TRY--not always successfully--to set a good example on how to react to views different from mine, even if I think those views have the power to hurt a weaker member.

I like Bedell. I really do. I Use it a lot. The read aloud followed by catechism type questions works well for some of my students. But I disagree with Bedell's views on women. I believe those views disempower women, and are wasteful of the greatest untapped resource in our world--women.

BUT...I'm having to react to some of the passages in the books more slowly and thoughtfully, and less dismissively and mockingly.

Bedell has some similar world views with ACE, but thankfully doesn't include stories featuring children acting them out. And I can't imagine him using the nicknames that ACE does :-0

But in the end ACE is the best curriculum option for SOME families. Life doesn't come all wrapped up with a pretty bow, and sometimes what we do is merely moving from one lesser of the evils to another.

#12 MrsMe

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 10:53 AM

We use ACE math and it is mastery.

My dd does exceptionally well with it...it is the first time that she has had math she can understand and retain. :)

I couldn't tell you about other subjects...sorry.


See now Alyeska, I was going to look into math too. DD is behind in math and grammar, but the reviews scare me. I'm a better late than early person. I don't think 2nd grade needs to learn mult and division.

#13 JaneP

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 06:36 PM

I have also been scared by the reviews from even considering ACE. But I have heard that perhaps the LA Paces are ok? :confused:

I only know one family who have used ACE long term and their children seem to have had a smooth transition into high school; one child at a highly regarded private school and another at a public school. I must admit I was surprised because I thought ACE would not have prepared them at all. The child going to the public school did a lot of extra reading and taught herself Hebrew while she was using ACE.

Anyway, what has impressed me about this ACE family is that the Mom does a lot of cooking and crafts etc with her dc... much more than I manage to do .. and she has two more dc than I do.... :blush:

#14 MrsMe

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 06:54 PM

I have also been scared by the reviews from even considering ACE. But I have heard that perhaps the LA Paces are ok? :confused:

I only know one family who have used ACE long term and their children seem to have had a smooth transition into high school; one child at a highly regarded private school and another at a public school. I must admit I was surprised because I thought ACE would not have prepared them at all. The child going to the public school did a lot of extra reading and taught herself Hebrew while she was using ACE.

Anyway, what has impressed me about this ACE family is that the Mom does a lot of cooking and crafts etc with her dc... much more than I manage to do .. and she has two more dc than I do.... :blush:


Incouraging.:) I realize it doesn't have to be hurry up, learn it early whether developmentally they're ready or not, so you can forget it later mentality (like ps). But even so, I would like to see on-level critical thinking, which is my main concern and not a "plug and chug" as a pp mentioned. DD is already "behind" in these subjects and it's either what she needs or it will mentally make her lazy. So the jury is still out. :tongue_smilie:

#15 TracyR

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 08:44 PM

Honestly I wouldn't go by what others have to say here. Each and every family has their own style and taste. We are actually a Catholic family using the workbook style curriculums because to save my sanity I have to and to date there are no available Catholic style workbook curriculums like CLE, Ace , or AOP out on the market. Plus my daughters love the little workbooks. It gives them a sense of accomplishment when they use them. So we will just stick with that.

I use a combination of AOP, ACE and CLE in my home.
My oldest uses AOP and ACE. We started off with CLE and I was bound and determined to make it fit her and it just wasn't possible. She needed that color to concentrate (what she told me).She needed the mastery of Horizons math. I was using CLE 700 with her (where she tested) and she just was breaking down. Missing from 7 to 12 problems. It was crazy. In the end she told me that it reminded her to much of Saxon ( a math program she hates with every fiber of her being) and that she needed color to concentrate. So there you go. Here I had avoided AOP like the plague because many people here would say how horrible it was. To find out it was EXACTLY what she needed. She's doing so much better now because the Horizons focuses on one topic at a time with review scattered through out the program. She's also using their Switched on School house for State History and she loves it. So there you go. You might just find what everyone doesn't like, maybe your diamond in the rough. We use ACE for English, History, Science, and Word Building. I do NOT find ACE to be twaddle. My daughter is actually learning better from it then past curriculums we've used (Calvert, K12, Abeka etc.) I had searched, and searched ,and searched. Tried so hard to use other programs that everyone gave glowing reviews of and none of them worked with her. Then I caved in , just like I did with the AOP and its been smooth sailing ever since. ACE leaves a lot for the parent too. We supplement with good books from the library on science , and history. We can add in a writing program that works, we can add in lapbooks, and DVD's to add more if we want to. Even if we didn't my daughter is still learning. I can say I went to an ACE school growing up, and , well, I turned out just fine. LOL I will say though that the ACE English is excellent. Its mastery and it works well for kids who need mastery.

With AOP , I've heard good things about all of their subjects except LA.

CLE has worked great with my younger three. We'll stick with what works.

Are any of these better than the other? NO.
It is all about what works for your child.

We can all be picky about this, that, and the other , but in the end its about what works for each individual family. The ONLY way you can form an opinion about the curriculum for yourself is to try it out. The Paces, the Lifepacs, and the Light Units are all sold individually. Buy a few of each and see what YOU think of them. Not what everyone else thinks.

p.s. I'd like to know about this political correctness thing with Ace. I don't see that at all in the Paces. Instead of saying it, please give some examples. As for the cartoon strips. They can be a bit cheesy but my daughter finds some of them funny. Guess they were meant for kids,not the adults.

Edited by TracyR, 14 April 2012 - 09:05 PM.


#16 Hunter

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 09:04 PM

I found the history to be the easiest subject to use with any of the publishers, because the lessons seldom build on each other the way math and English do. So, too much content in too few pages, never turned into a rolling snowball or falling dominoes scenario, where the fog just builds and builds. This is a blessing as History is the hardest subject to use something that doesn't match your word view. Bible was also easy.

The old high school CLE math, though was :w00t: We were just using it as a review, so were okay.

#17 SilverMoon

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 09:05 PM

See now Alyeska, I was going to look into math too. DD is behind in math and grammar, but the reviews scare me. I'm a better late than early person. I don't think 2nd grade needs to learn mult and division.


The math was my least favorite subject in ACE as a child. The instructions read like complex electronics manuals. When I'd ask for help from the adults, yes after placing the proper flag on my desk, they simply reread the seemingly Greek instructions right out of my book. :tongue_smilie: The grammar went further than the public school I had previously attended, but a kid who can spot patterns easily can "ace" it without getting the concepts. Ask me how I know. ;) (Pun intended!)

For what it's worth, Rod and Staff's grade 2 math is pretty slow and gentle, and only has multiplication as an add-on for the advanced students. It's only in the blackline masters for the teacher to hand out at her discretion, and isn't included in the student text. Their English text can be done mostly orally if you want, and again, is pretty gentle at that age. R&S is mastery, and you can see samples at www.rodandstaffbooks.com. The teaching from the math is solely in the teacher's edition at that grade, but the English student text has teaching right in it (as well as a scripted teaching plan in the TE).

#18 Hunter

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 09:14 PM

As for plug and chug vs critical thinking, I do NOT teach critical thinking with work texts. I just do NOT do it! My preference is to teach critical thinking during read alouds and Bible study, or with a resource designed to TEACH it, rather than a lesson that just EXPECTS it.

Nope, I don't want my work texts polluted with stuff to make me want to tear my hear out because we scheduled 3 pages for the day, to stay on schedule, and a critical thinking EXPECTATION took us 2 hours to figure out. Nope.:banghead:

#19 TracyR

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 09:44 PM

As for plug and chug vs critical thinking, I do NOT teach critical thinking with work texts. I just do NOT do it! My preference is to teach critical thinking during read alouds and Bible study, or with a resource designed to TEACH it, rather than a lesson that just EXPECTS it.

Nope, I don't want my work texts polluted with stuff to make me want to tear my hear out because we scheduled 3 pages for the day, to stay on schedule, and a critical thinking EXPECTATION took us 2 hours to figure out. Nope.:banghead:


Amen to that! LOL Critical thinking can be taught outside of a curriculum. There are tons of critical thinking books on the market.

#20 caedmyn

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 08:21 AM

I went through A.C.E. K-12, have taught in A.C.E. schools, and my DD is current attending an A.C.E. school. I was one of those who excelled in school without really learning the material (I'm good at memorizing). But I also did very well on my college classes (junior college) so I don't feel I got an inadequate education. I know many people who have gone through A.C.E. K-12. Some have gone on to college and done very well.

My personal opinion of A.C.E. is that it's an ok program. We supplement DD's education quite a bit through afterschooling. I wouldn't ever choose it for homeschooling unless I was truly incapable of teaching due to illness or something and just needed a really easy-to-use curriculum. It works fairly well for what it's designed to do, as a PP mentioned, to be self-taught by kids, supervised by an adult without much teaching experience. It'd be a good program for a parent who doesn't have a lot of time to teach or just needs something really easy. A.C.E. moves at the child's pace so a bright child can accelerate quickly, or a motivated child can get their work done very quickly each day. DD can do her 1st grade work in about an hour at home, not counting scoring time. If your child is capable of moving through schoolwork at a decent pace there'd be plenty of time in the school day to supplement with other things to address some of A.C.E.'s shortcomings if you wanted to go that route...add SOTW or similar a couple times a week, maybe a science experiment or two, and a writing program for older kids.

I do think the A.C.E. grammar/English is very good, and I think the spelling/Word Building program is good too. The schools around here have dropped A.C.E. math and use Saxon instead. The comic strips and some of the stories are pretty corny although younger kids don't seem to mind. I thought they were pretty silly by the time I did high school level work.

#21 SilverMoon

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 10:01 AM

I'm not pushing for critical thinking to be in everything. For what it's worth, my kids do study logic as it's own subject. To me, it's about plug and chug versus understanding. :001_smile: ACE taught me how to memorize algorithms and patterns, and brain dump later. I don't want my kids merely capable of performing long division and diagramming a sentence. I want them to know they only divided a part of the number, so they now have to take away the part they divided to see what's left, and to have the ability to use those grammar skills on sentences that aren't formulaic.

#22 MrsMe

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 10:06 AM

I'm not pushing for critical thinking to be in everything. For what it's worth, my kids do study logic as it's own subject. To me, it's about plug and chug versus understanding. :001_smile: ACE taught me how to memorize algorithms and patterns, and brain dump later. I don't want my kids merely capable of performing long division and diagramming a sentence. I want them to know they only divided a part of the number, so they now have to take away the part they divided to see what's left, and to have the ability to use those grammar skills on sentences that aren't formulaic.


Exactly. Iwould like them to think, not merely circle a multiple choice or have the answers there and just pick one (in the case of English?). Nothing annoys me more. I want it understood.

Do you think CLE makes kids undertstand in math? We're doing some things and I'm not sure the "why" is there?

Edited by alilac, 15 April 2012 - 04:33 PM.


#23 SilverMoon

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 10:28 AM

Exactly. Iwould like them to think, not merely circle a multiple choice or have the answers there and just pick one (in the case of English?). Nothing annoys me more. I want it understood.

Do you think CLE makes kids undertstand in math? We're doing somethings and I'm not sure the "why" is there?


I don't have experience with CLE. I avoided them at first because of the apparent lack of teacher tools. You might try searching up some old threads on it. Many on this board seem to think highly of CLE's math, though their English doesn't seem to get as many positive reviews.

We are set in our ways for core subjects now, and I have no need of shopping around for them. You can see what we're using in my signature. Justice and Joy are logic stage students, and Honor and Grace are grammar stage students.

#24 lamolina

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 02:01 PM

Moon- This is my 1st year hs and we are using MCT for LA. I think this may have been a mistake to use initially because it feels very scattered, although it is quite interesting.
I am considering R&S English for next year. My kids would be starting 6th and 3rd. Would you recommend starting at grade level? Have you used this for multiple years and been happy with it? What do your kids think about it?

thanks!!

#25 SilverMoon

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 03:33 PM

Moon- This is my 1st year hs and we are using MCT for LA. I think this may have been a mistake to use initially because it feels very scattered, although it is quite interesting.
I am considering R&S English for next year. My kids would be starting 6th and 3rd. Would you recommend starting at grade level? Have you used this for multiple years and been happy with it? What do your kids think about it?

thanks!!

I don't know enough about MCT to know where they'd place coming out of it. I'd absolutely put the third grader in R&S at grade level, even if they'd had no grammar at all. If that sixth grader is a strong English student in general and gets the concepts easily, he'd probably do okay in 6. If he needs a bit more practice or grammar concepts can be difficult for him, I'd go with the 5.

I have used Rod and Staff's English books for years, and I can't imagine ever changing. My kids excel, keep the skills they've learned, and easily apply them to their writing. My older kids have been in the course long enough they both appreciate how thorough it is.

#26 Annabel Lee

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 04:41 PM

Moon, you referenced what you are using in your signature, but what do LA, ECwPS, AB, & WtBaRM stand for?



#27 SilverMoon

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 06:10 PM

Moon, you referenced what you are using in your signature, but what do LA, ECwPS, AB, & WtBaRM stand for?


Acronym soup! The signature size restriction doesn't give me enough room to spell all that out for six kids, or I would. :001_smile:

LA = Latin Alive, from Classical Academic Press
EcwPS = Exploring Creation with Physical Science, from Apologia
AB = Argument Builder, also from Classical Academic Press
WtBaRM = Where the Brook and River Meet, from Cadron Creek

#28 Annabel Lee

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 01:43 AM

I know, it's not enough space for all my stuff, and it's really such a large hodge-podge I'm using that I just don't bother. Thanks for typing yours out!

#29 frostedsugarcookie

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 09:18 PM

I recieved a GED after dropping out of public school in 10th grade and have had no trouble with teaching CLE whatsoever. If you would like to see samples of CLE you can go to clp.org and christianbook.com has samples of ACE paces so you can see the difference for yourself :001_smile:

#30 Hunter

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 02:38 PM

I recieved a GED after dropping out of public school in 10th grade and have had no trouble with teaching CLE whatsoever. If you would like to see samples of CLE you can go to clp.org and christianbook.com has samples of ACE paces so you can see the difference for yourself :001_smile:


Welcome FrostedSugarCookie :party:

#31 frostedsugarcookie

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 09:01 PM

Thank you :001_smile:


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