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Tapestry of Grace without the loom?


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What's with the ads?

#51 4evercanucks

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 03:04 AM

Good reply Kathryn. I think this is the best quote for explaining it.

No, they aren't different in content. If you go through their buying guide and click on "What's This?" next to resale option, it says:

"Digital Edition (DE) products are licensed for one family only, and that family gets to use it for all of eternity (or until their school years end, whichever comes first). DE products cannot be given or resold to another family because of industry-standard software (or ebook) copyright reasons. If being able to sell your copy of Tapestry products once you're done is important to you, you need to choose the print-only format. The paper copy of the curriculum that comes as part of the DE + Print Copy option is not resalable because it's purely a paper-and-ink copy (that we are happy to permit for your convenience) of your DE Tapestry license."


beth83, you have received several good replies to your question. I will throw something else out there for you to consider also. If the print copy with the DE were resalable then any one of us with DE could just print off copies and resell them. There really is no difference there when you buy a print/ DE combo. Yet another is that when you buy a print with the DE, it is just that, a printed copy. For that specific printed edition, you have not paid the cost of the curriculum. As far as monetary value for Lampstand Press, it is just paper with printing on it. Just look at the price difference between the DE/ print combo and print only. This is very well explained in the quote that Kathryn has included here.

So, I don't get this. Why can't the DE/print version be resold? I just assumed it was the print version you can buy alone, plus the DE version. Why can't you sell the print version from the DE pack if you can sell the print version if you buy it alone?

I'm guessing, now, that the two print versions are different? How? Why?



#52 4evercanucks

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 03:09 AM

I held it up to the light but I didn't see anything.


:confused: I figured that since yours is a more recent edition, perhaps we would clear this up. Based on what you have shared, it is clear that Icelmer is right, and that the watermark term is being used incorrectly.

#53 boscopup

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 06:23 AM

Wow, with the notice right there on the side, it's unbelievable that the seller is still trying to make excuses as if she doesn't know she's doing something illegal. :confused:

:confused: I figured that since yours is a more recent edition, perhaps we would clear this up. Based on what you have shared, it is clear that Icelmer is right, and that the watermark term is being used incorrectly.


I think they're calling it a "watermark" because when printing, it's being added to the printout. Much like some people do with pictures on their blog. They will add text or an image to the picture that can't be taken off. It isn't always light like a watermark embedded in paper would be.

So basically, if you print from your DE, it will also print the "not for resale" line, even though you probably don't see that line on the screen while viewing it in Lock Lizard. So in that sense, they are "watermarking" their pages as they get printed. This is the same way the term is used in Photoshop type programs.

#54 Candid

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 06:56 AM

The biggest difference is the with the DE/combo, you get unlimited DE updates. So, as time goes one, the printed version (with or without DE) slowly becomes a bit obsolete. Books go out of print, new great books are written, TOG learns a better way of showing how to do something, etc. If you get either the DE or the combo, you get those updates. If you get the print-only, you don't. The print version with the DE is discounted because you can't sell it. I don't know if you could buy a full, resalable print-only AND a DE. It would be quite a bit more expensive, but it might be possible.


Let me fine tune this a tiny bit, Tapestry does promise to keep you up to date with Out of Print books. They even go so far as to keep pages for those books available so if a DE user wants to use an OoP print book they can.

The right to resell the curriculum is the strongest advantage of print only. The ability to have an ever updated DE is its advantage.

If I had never used Tapestry, I'd be tempted to get print only just in case I wanted to sell it. If I was ongoing then DE would make more sense.

I suspect the cost for printing the DE print version is cheaper from Tapestry than what you could do at home which is why many people order that.

#55 4evercanucks

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 07:43 AM

I think they're calling it a "watermark" because when printing, it's being added to the printout. Much like some people do with pictures on their blog. They will add text or an image to the picture that can't be taken off. It isn't always light like a watermark embedded in paper would be.

So basically, if you print from your DE, it will also print the "not for resale" line, even though you probably don't see that line on the screen while viewing it in Lock Lizard. So in that sense, they are "watermarking" their pages as they get printed. This is the same way the term is used in Photoshop type programs.


Actually, you do see it when you open the DE Year plan. That was what I checked when I posted previously. I did not have to print any pages. It was showing on the screen and would definitely print if I had printed pages. That is not what a watermark is, to my knowledge. An on screen watermark, as I understand it, and I use Photoshop Elements to mark my pics, is an onscreen mark that is embedded in the picture just like a print watermark is embedded in the paper. Someone could correct me if I am not understanding this correctly, but this has been my experience so far.

Edited by 4evercanucks, 19 April 2012 - 07:50 AM.


#56 4evercanucks

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 07:48 AM

I suspect the cost for printing the DE print version is cheaper from Tapestry than what you could do at home which is why many people order that.


When I bought our DE year plans at the start of 2009, there were people that did not want to have to go through the process of having their copies printed themselves. Lampstand, at the time (not sure if this is still the case, especially since their move) teamed up with one of their TOG users in order to have the copies printed through this family. Beyond that, I don't know. The copies are clearly the same now and do not come from an offset printer anymore.

#57 Kathryn

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 08:46 AM

When I bought our DE year plans at the start of 2009, there were people that did not want to have to go through the process of having their copies printed themselves. Lampstand, at the time (not sure if this is still the case, especially since their move) teamed up with one of their TOG users in order to have the copies printed through this family. Beyond that, I don't know. The copies are clearly the same now and do not come from an offset printer anymore.


I spoke with Marcia Somerville at Greenville GHC. She was trying to encourage me to save my money and just buy DE instead of DE+Print. I replied, "don't you want my money?!?" she said they don't make any money from the Print copy with DE, that it's at cost for them and thry only provide it as a service to those who really "need" to have an entire print copy. Actually, she said that some years they take a loss on and some years they make a little, so if you get all four years it evens out since the cost to you is the same for each year.

#58 4evercanucks

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 09:56 AM

I spoke with Marcia Somerville at Greenville GHC. She was trying to encourage me to save my money and just buy DE instead of DE+Print. I replied, "don't you want my money?!?" she said they don't make any money from the Print copy with DE, that it's at cost for them and thry only provide it as a service to those who really "need" to have an entire print copy. Actually, she said that some years they take a loss on and some years they make a little, so if you get all four years it evens out since the cost to you is the same for each year.


Yes, that was my understanding also, that they do not make anything off of the print copy that comes with the DE/ print combo. It was just a service they were providing to those that felt they needed a printed copy besides the DE. Those puppies are about 2,000 pages each and in color. Printing at home would be costly too, if one wanted to print the entire year plan. Using it off of the computer and printing just what you need is the best way to go, I feel.

Shipping would have been pretty high for me since we were living overseas at the time (and even now in Canada) so, at the time, it was the main reason why I didn't considered it. After using the DE alone for a while I realized that I did not need a printed copy at all. I feel that this is what Marcia was talking about. Once someone gives the DE a chance, and gets used to the many features and how easy it is to get to what you need, you realize that you don't really need a printed copy in front of you. While I am saving ours for grade 5, even then, I know I will not be printing that much and using it mostly directly off of my computer.

Edited by 4evercanucks, 19 April 2012 - 09:58 AM.



What's with the ads?