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Tapestry of Grace without the loom?


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#1 didadeewiththree

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 01:08 PM

I just bought Tapestry of Grace used and just now realized that it doesn't come with the loom cd, nor can one be obtained for it. Do you think it would be best to send it back or keep it? I do use the loom on occasion, and like to resell books when I'm finished with them. Is TOG worth less when it comes without the loom or not?

Edited by neenee7, 10 April 2012 - 01:47 PM.


#2 HappyCrazyMama

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 01:28 PM

Send it back for sure! From their forums;
Read this before buying Tapestry of Grace Used

#3 didadeewiththree

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 01:46 PM

Send it back for sure! From their forums;
Read this before buying Tapestry of Grace Used


Thanks for this; I know it was a print from a digital edition, so hopefully I can get my money back.

#4 Kathryn

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 02:26 PM

Thanks for this; I know it was a print from a digital edition, so hopefully I can get my money back.


If they refuse and you paid a lot, I might threaten with TOG's legal ramifications if they sold you a DE printed one. That's very clearly a violation.

#5 didadeewiththree

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 02:57 PM

It looks like they will give me a return, less the shipping for it. If I just write return to sender on it, and it had delivery confirmation on it initially, will it go back with delivery confirmation? Or should I re-postage it?

#6 lcelmer

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 03:15 PM

A Digital Edition of Tapestry OR prints from them are not resellable according to the contract the original purchaser must agree to when buying a Digital Edition of TOG. I would return it ASAP, and ask the seller why they are selling an item they had agreed to use ONLY for their family. If they are in ignorance, then refer them to TOG for help, if they are blatantly trying to sell it still, I would flag the listing and or talk to TOG about it. (their DE account access should be terminated)

An easy way to tell: On the outer pages, printed vertially on the edge of the pages, there should be one of the following:

Marcia somerville, et all, NOT FOR RESALE (utterly wrong to resell)
OR
Marcia Somerville, et all, all rights reserved (ok to resell)

You can loan out a DE if you are not using it during the current school year, I think, but you CANNOT resell it. The DE version is cheaper than buying the regular, print version. This is one of the reasons that is true. YOU CANNOT RESELL IT!

In theory, they could be reprinting & reselling it over & over again...
(I hope they have gotten confused or something, but you never know)
You need to rebuy any shipping insurance or delivery confirmation.

Was this a purchase from a WTM board or somewhere else?

#7 didadeewiththree

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 04:48 PM

It was listed on Ebay and the homeschool classifieds site, but I bought it from them on the homeschool classifieds site.

They plan on reselling to someone else. I hope that someone knows that the loom is not included. They said that the print version was not an option 2 years ago and that they could only buy the DE version with the print option extra.

#8 Quiver0f10

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 07:15 PM

Definitely return it.

#9 Kathryn

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 08:42 AM

It was listed on Ebay and the homeschool classifieds site, but I bought it from them on the homeschool classifieds site.

They plan on reselling to someone else. I hope that someone knows that the loom is not included. They said that the print version was not an option 2 years ago and that they could only buy the DE version with the print option extra.


That is not an excuse to try to illegally sell what they bought and agreed not to resell.

#10 ByGrace3

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 09:07 AM

I would certainly return it, and would not be willing to pay shipping either. Did you pay using pp? If they don't pay for return shipping and refund your money, you can open a pp dispute.

#11 didadeewiththree

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 10:00 AM

That is not an excuse to try to illegally sell what they bought and agreed not to resell.


I agree; they really seemed to not know what the loom was and that they only used the paper copy, not even using the digital copy ever, but now that I've brought their attention to this matter, I would think that they would refrain from reselling it, knowing that it's against policy. It makes me think that they must know what they are doing if they still don't care at this point.

#12 didadeewiththree

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 10:06 AM

I would certainly return it, and would not be willing to pay shipping either. Did you pay using pp? If they don't pay for return shipping and refund your money, you can open a pp dispute.


I did use Paypal...I also told her to refund all of my money, but I agreed to pay return shipping. She said she never advertised that the loom was included, so it wasnt her fault that it doesnt come with it. She said she used it without and doesn't see why I can't use it. At first she wanted me to pay shipping both ways, but when I said I would just write return to sender on the package, she offered to pay return shipping.

I'd like to not pay anything on this deal...but I agreed to pay to ship it back. Ahh...I should have known to ask abt the loom first, before buying. But when you see a print version being offered, don't you usually assume that it's a print version, not a copy of the DE? I suppose you can't assume anything:)

#13 AngelBee

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 10:52 AM

I did use Paypal...I also told her to refund all of my money, but I agreed to pay return shipping. She said she never advertised that the loom was included, so it wasnt her fault that it doesnt come with it. She said she used it without and doesn't see why I can't use it. At first she wanted me to pay shipping both ways, but when I said I would just write return to sender on the package, she offered to pay return shipping.

I'd like to not pay anything on this deal...but I agreed to pay to ship it back. Ahh...I should have known to ask abt the loom first, before buying. But when you see a print version being offered, don't you usually assume that it's a print version, not a copy of the DE? I suppose you can't assume anything:)


Return to sender. Pay her nothing.

It is a violation of TOG policy. Now she knows that and is not even being gracious about it!

#14 Kathryn

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 11:32 AM

So, she didn't even advertise it as missing the Loom? That's just outright wrong. When you buy, you have to agree to their policies and they very clearly spell out what you can and cannot resell. I can't imagine she didn't know what she was doing. I don't really plan on using the Loom documents very much, or the DE, but I got DE+Print so that I'll have access to the updates. And since she has DE as well, what she's doing is illegal. When I ordered, I had to agree, multiple times I think, that I would not resell the print copy.

#15 lcelmer

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 11:52 AM

This is what TOG said when I asked about it.

"No, sorry to say that the DE version has never been available for resell. The Print version has always been available, although there was a brief period of time in which we were unsure if we would be able to continue to offer the Print version.""

Print was and has always been an option. Please let TOG know their info, if they are planning on reselling still, but wait till after you get your refund.

#16 Candid

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 06:03 AM

I did use Paypal...I also told her to refund all of my money, but I agreed to pay return shipping. She said she never advertised that the loom was included, so it wasnt her fault that it doesnt come with it. She said she used it without and doesn't see why I can't use it. At first she wanted me to pay shipping both ways, but when I said I would just write return to sender on the package, she offered to pay return shipping.

I'd like to not pay anything on this deal...but I agreed to pay to ship it back. Ahh...I should have known to ask abt the loom first, before buying. But when you see a print version being offered, don't you usually assume that it's a print version, not a copy of the DE? I suppose you can't assume anything:)


I'd consider raising this to the Paypal level of dispute. It may both get you your money and keep her from selling what is stolen property.

#17 didadeewiththree

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 07:09 AM

Should I wait till I receive it to file a dispute with Paypal, once I see the "resale prohibited" markings on the pages? Or only if she doesnt return my full amount?

#18 Curly

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 08:50 AM

If you open the package you won't be able to write return to sender on it. You would have to pay the postage to send it back. Did she already send you the money to cover the return postage?

#19 Candid

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 08:56 AM

Should I wait till I receive it to file a dispute with Paypal, once I see the "resale prohibited" markings on the pages? Or only if she doesnt return my full amount?


Having the evidence in hand would be wise. Make copies and return it. Send her an email with a copy of that page. Ask for a full refund. I don't know enough to know if they will also charge her for your return shipping charge, but it wouldn't hurt to ask.

However, if she has been clever, she won't have included the page it says that. Then, you'll need to link Tapestry's various statements on this issue.

#20 melmichigan

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 09:02 AM

Pay her nothing.

It is a violation of TOG policy. Now she knows that and is not even being gracious about it!


:iagree: It's not your fault she is trying to swindle someone. The pages say right on them that you cannot resell them and you have to click acknowledgement of this policy before you purchase. If she has a DE version purchased legally then she has the loom on her computer. If she were missing the loom CD on a legally purchased print copy then TOG would allow her to purchase an additional CD replace a lost one and complete the package for resale.

#21 HappyCrazyMama

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 09:38 AM

This is what TOG said when I asked about it.

"No, sorry to say that the DE version has never been available for resell. The Print version has always been available, although there was a brief period of time in which we were unsure if we would be able to continue to offer the Print version.""

Print was and has always been an option. Please let TOG know their info, if they are planning on reselling still, but wait till after you get your refund.

:iagree:

#22 Cricket on the Hearth

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 02:31 AM

They plan on reselling to someone else. I hope that someone knows that the loom is not included. They said that the print version was not an option 2 years ago and that they could only buy the DE version with the print option extra.


This is true, but this was 3 years ago. I bought at the start of 2009 (DE only), when DE first came out. TOG was being forced to operate at a loss for several months out of the year because they had to prepay their printing costs and estimate how many year plans they would be selling in a year. At the time, TOG was still trying to get rid of the print copies they had, and were selling them at a reduced rate. A year or so later, when their business started doing better after the DE version really took off, they started offering print again. So two years ago (I am pretty certain it was two years ago) they would have had three options (like they do now).

- DE (not for resale)
- DE/ Print (not for resale)
- Print (this is from a printer, the paper quality and color quality is different) Can be resold

That is not an excuse to try to illegally sell what they bought and agreed not to resell.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

I would certainly return it, and would not be willing to pay shipping either. Did you pay using pp? If they don't pay for return shipping and refund your money, you can open a pp dispute.


:iagree: With everything said here. I have posted how I would approach this at the end of this post.

I agree; they really seemed to not know what the loom was and that they only used the paper copy, not even using the digital copy ever, but now that I've brought their attention to this matter, I would think that they would refrain from reselling it, knowing that it's against policy. It makes me think that they must know what they are doing if they still don't care at this point.


I so... don't buy this! Yes, they definitely know what they are doing! The would have had to sign that they agree not to resell. So, even if they did not use the DE, they still knew and know that they are NOT supposed to resell that printed edition. I was pretty certain that some people would start doing that when TOG started offering the combo package! It is their way of recouping some of the money they spent. The digital print is only worth about $100 in the combo package. The copy from the printer is much more. I have a feeling that they charged you more than just $100. Am I right?

If you open the package you won't be able to write return to sender on it. You would have to pay the postage to send it back.


I am pretty certain that this is correct.

I did use Paypal...I also told her to refund all of my money, but I agreed to pay return shipping. She said she never advertised that the loom was included, so it wasnt her fault that it doesnt come with it. She said she used it without and doesn't see why I can't use it. At first she wanted me to pay shipping both ways, but when I said I would just write return to sender on the package, she offered to pay return shipping.


Her not advertising that the Loom was in there is moot. The print copy that is legally allowed to be resold SHOULD have the Loom in there. She has been caught and is trying to see what she can get away with because now it is costing her money ;). I would pay her nothing!


I'd like to not pay anything on this deal...but I agreed to pay to ship it back. Ahh...I should have known to ask abt the loom first, before buying. But when you see a print version being offered, don't you usually assume that it's a print version, not a copy of the DE? I suppose you can't assume anything:)


Definitely do not assume anything! You must have e-mail communication with this person right? Keep all communication that you have.


Should I wait till I receive it to file a dispute with Paypal, once I see the "resale prohibited" markings on the pages? Or only if she doesnt return my full amount?


This is what I would do. You are not me though so you have to make your own choices based on what works for you. Keep in mind that a PayPal dispute will take time (read PayPal policy).

OK, I would wait for the package to arrive. A printed copy from a printer will have the colors bleed right to the end of the page. The digital printer copies will not. They will include margins. This is your clue.

I would contact TOG ASAP and first ask them how I should proceed with this. If they are the original buyers of this printed Year plan, TOG will know who they are after you give the sellers information. I would see what TOG has to say first and if they are willing to take any action that might benefit you too. Depending on these actions (and I would not wait too long here because you don't want to run out of time for filing a dispute) I would then file a dispute with PayPal. Once again, realize that it will take time and PayPal will have you deal with the seller first. I would by pass that and put in a claim for full refund at this point, explaining the reasons being copyright issues.

Good luck! Hope all works out for the best and that you get your money back soon.

Edited by 4evercanucks, 13 April 2012 - 02:35 AM.


#23 prairiegirl40

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 08:03 AM


An easy way to tell: On the outer pages, printed vertially on the edge of the pages, there should be one of the following:

Marcia somerville, et all, NOT FOR RESALE (utterly wrong to resell)
OR
Marcia Somerville, et all, all rights reserved (ok to resell)


This would only apply to print Redesigns purchased after DE was introduced. I have one of the very first Yr 2 Redesign copies and nowhere does it have any of the above statements printed on all my pages. I purchased directly from Tapestry of Grace, sent in my Classic loom and received a print copy and loom cd for Redesign. The first page only states Copyright 2007, all rights reserved. First Printing. If I sell mine, it would be accompanied by a loom cd, but would be void of the verticle print on all pages. I just looked at my others and Yr 3 doesn't have this either. Only my print edition of Yr 4 does. So, it looks like before DE came out there was no verticle printing on each page.

Edited by prairiegirl40, 13 April 2012 - 08:16 AM.


#24 Candid

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 09:23 AM

OK, I would wait for the package to arrive. A printed copy from a printer will have the colors bleed right to the end of the page. The digital printer copies will not. They will include margins. This is your clue.


This is not totally true. You can buy print copies now but they are digital print copies. I own a legal to be resold print Year Four that looks like the digital print copy because Tapestry no longer offers offset printing for their products. Instead you get a digital print copy. However, I do own a Loom disc.

Edited by Candid, 13 April 2012 - 09:26 AM.


#25 Cricket on the Hearth

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 01:54 AM

This is not totally true. You can buy print copies now but they are digital print copies. I own a legal to be resold print Year Four that looks like the digital print copy because Tapestry no longer offers offset printing for their products. Instead you get a digital print copy. However, I do own a Loom disc.


I was not aware of this change. I just looked it up. Thank you for pointing it out.

#26 lcelmer

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 11:21 AM

This is not totally true. You can buy print copies now but they are digital print copies. I own a legal to be resold print Year Four that looks like the digital print copy because Tapestry no longer offers offset printing for their products. Instead you get a digital print copy. However, I do own a Loom disc.



The copyright notice should still be different for the regular & DE versions.... It is on the right side of every page.

#27 Cricket on the Hearth

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 11:31 AM

The copyright notice should still be different for the regular & DE versions.... It is on the right side of every page.


I think I was reading that with the print only, there is no marking at all. The only way to know is if the loom comes with it. The print/ DE combos, however, will have the watermark.

OK, here it is:

http://www.tapestryo.../newsletter.php

Edited by 4evercanucks, 16 April 2012 - 11:33 AM.


#28 lcelmer

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 12:01 PM

I think I was reading that with the print only, there is no marking at all. The only way to know is if the loom comes with it. The print/ DE combos, however, will have the watermark.

OK, here it is:

http://www.tapestryo.../newsletter.php



The current print only version still has a copyright on the edge of the page, but it does not say "not for resale."

I bought 1 unit of year 3 standard print, then switched to de /print combo for the rest of the year. They are different. All the pages were printed by TOG, but the DE version pages have the "not for resale" notice on the side, whereas the regular print has a standard copyright type thing on the side. It is something like "C Marcia Somerville, et all, all rights reserved"

There may have been a time when there was no marking at all.. and you need to get the loom to be sure.

#29 Cricket on the Hearth

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 01:02 PM

The current print only version still has a copyright on the edge of the page, but it does not say "not for resale."

I bought 1 unit of year 3 standard print, then switched to de /print combo for the rest of the year. They are different. All the pages were printed by TOG, but the DE version pages have the "not for resale" notice on the side, whereas the regular print has a standard copyright type thing on the side. It is something like "C Marcia Somerville, et all, all rights reserved"

There may have been a time when there was no marking at all.. and you need to get the loom to be sure.


The newsletter I linked is dated April 2012. Shouldn't the copyrights message be on both combo and print only? I am not sure I follow, do you mean that the copyrights messages is watermarked on the print only copies? It is not mentioned in the newsletter though!

#30 Mommy22alyns

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 01:35 PM

I did use Paypal...I also told her to refund all of my money, but I agreed to pay return shipping. She said she never advertised that the loom was included, so it wasnt her fault that it doesnt come with it. She said she used it without and doesn't see why I can't use it. At first she wanted me to pay shipping both ways, but when I said I would just write return to sender on the package, she offered to pay return shipping.

I'd like to not pay anything on this deal...but I agreed to pay to ship it back. Ahh...I should have known to ask abt the loom first, before buying. But when you see a print version being offered, don't you usually assume that it's a print version, not a copy of the DE? I suppose you can't assume anything:)



This seems a bit ridiculous to me. Does that mean I can sell a SL core without the IG and then claim, "I didn't say it was there, so it's not my fault!" :glare:

#31 Cricket on the Hearth

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 01:43 PM

This seems a bit ridiculous to me. Does that mean I can sell a SL core without the IG and then claim, "I didn't say it was there, so it's not my fault!" :glare:


:lol: No kidding! She was caught, so what could she say ;)!

#32 didadeewiththree

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 01:49 PM

This seems a bit ridiculous to me. Does that mean I can sell a SL core without the IG and then claim, "I didn't say it was there, so it's not my fault!" :glare:


She listed Tapestry with pictures on Ebay and didn't mention anything about the loom. When I asked her a second time(she never responded to my first loom question, but in all the back and forth emails, I just assumed it did, and if it didn't, I knew I could buy one for $10.) But of course, you can't buy a loom disk for a DE print version of Tapestry. Anyways, yes, she simply said she didn't advertise that the loom was part of the deal. I could understand if it were lost, but not that one could not be obtained for it.

It should be coming here today. I contacted paypal and they said that I am responsible for return shipping. I'm fine with it; I'm just glad I'm not stuck with it.

#33 Kathryn

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 02:32 PM

Let us know how it turns out.

#34 lcelmer

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 01:35 AM

The newsletter I linked is dated April 2012. Shouldn't the copyrights message be on both combo and print only?


Yes, currently, BOTH versions have a notice on the sides, a regular copyright notice. That just means you can't make copies & sell the copies. Just like any other book, but TOG has it on every page instead of just on the back cover.

I am not sure I follow, do you mean that the copyrights messages is watermarked on the print only copies? It is not mentioned in the newsletter though!

The current DE printed pages have the same copyright notice as the printed on every page, AND alongside that, "NOT FOR RESALE" in capitol letters.
That means you can't resell the DE pages at all.


I have no idea why they call any of it a "watermark." Mine aren't actually "watermarks" just a small, vertical printed notice on each page. I think they are just using the term inaccurately. They define watermark as a "small copyright notice that goes vertically in the inner margin of each page" however, wikipedia does not.

The older, prior to DE, print versions may not have any of this vertical notice stuff on the pages at all. Classic sure didn't! :-D

Edited by lcelmer, 18 April 2012 - 01:48 AM.


#35 Cricket on the Hearth

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 02:04 AM

Currently, BOTH versions have a notice on the sides, a regular copyright notice. That just means you can't make copies & sell the copies. Just like any other book, but TOG has it on every page instead of just on the back cover.


I believe this is standard for all curriculum providers but I am not sure if they all do it. I know that the SL guides that I have, from our SL days, have it also. It is in fine print, at about the middle of one edge of the page, and vertically.

The current DE printed pages have that same copyright notice on every page, AND alongside that, "NOT FOR RESALE" in capitol letters.
That means you can't resell the DE pages at all.


I agree about the fact that the printed copy that comes in the DE/ print combo, is not for resale. We have agreed all along! I am just trying to figure out for my own knowledge and for others considering buying TOG, what one sees when they buy the print combo and print only, since I only have DE ;). Actually, I purchased DE (Year plans 1-3) since it first came out. I only need year 4, which I will also be buying in DE format. This really does not affect me. I am just trying to help others understand, while also finding out myself, what to post in the future, should this question arise again :).

I have no idea why they call any of it a "watermark." Mine aren't actually "watermarks" just a small, vertical printed notice on each page. I think they are just using the term inaccurately.
They define watermark as a "small copyright notice that goes vertically in the inner margin of each page" however, wikipedia does not.


The copyrights notice is not what they say is watermarked. The "not for resale" notice, is. Watermarks are often found in money. Some companies also watermark their paper with their logo. The watermark does not involve ink. It is embedded in the paper and is part of the paper making process. Doesn't the "not for resale" note appear like that :confused:? A watermark is better seen when the paper is lifted towards a light source.

Edited by 4evercanucks, 18 April 2012 - 02:09 AM.


#36 Cricket on the Hearth

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 02:40 AM

The current DE printed pages have the same copyright notice as the printed on every page, AND alongside that, "NOT FOR RESALE" in capitol letters.
That means you can't resell the DE pages at all.


I have no idea why they call any of it a "watermark." Mine aren't actually "watermarks" just a small, vertical printed notice on each page. I think they are just using the term inaccurately.


OK, I just opened my DE year plans and I see what you mean. All the pages have what you said marked on them so that if someone prints from DE and tries to sell that, the notice is there ;). Perhaps they have also added this as a watermark in the new combo packages! I don't know what to say :confused:! I was just quoting what they say in their newsletter :tongue_smilie:!

#37 Kathryn

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 06:50 AM

I ordered DE+Print last month. My print looks just like the DE, with "c Fall 2011, Marcia Someville et. al., NOT FOR RESALE" down the side of every page.

#38 lcelmer

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 10:08 AM

OK, I just opened my DE year plans and I see what you mean. All the pages have what you said marked on them so that if someone prints from DE and tries to sell that, the notice is there ;). Perhaps they have also added this as a watermark in the new combo packages! I don't know what to say :confused:! I was just quoting what they say in their newsletter :tongue_smilie:!

:-) Yup! I get what you are asking & saying... It is hard to describe this without a picture.. :-D

We don't disagree at all... I was just pointing out that both versions have info on the side

#39 Cricket on the Hearth

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 01:09 PM

I ordered DE+Print last month. My print looks just like the DE, with "c Fall 2011, Marcia Someville et. al., NOT FOR RESALE" down the side of every page.


Kathryn, you might be able to answer this, is the "not for resale" also watermarked on the paper?

#40 Cricket on the Hearth

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 01:10 PM

We don't disagree at all... I was just pointing out that both versions have info on the side


:)

#41 didadeewiththree

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 09:33 PM

I got mine in the mail the other day. It did say Maria Somerville 2009 Not for Resale on every page. I sent it back already; just waiting on a refund.

#42 Kathryn

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 10:12 PM

Kathryn, you might be able to answer this, is the "not for resale" also watermarked on the paper?


I held it up to the light but I didn't see anything.

I got mine in the mail the other day. It did say Maria Somerville 2009 Not for Resale on every page. I sent it back already; just waiting on a refund.


As expected. I'm not sure how much clearer it could be. I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this.

#43 beth83

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 10:48 PM

- DE (not for resale)
- DE/ Print (not for resale)
- Print (this is from a printer, the paper quality and color quality is different) Can be resold


So, I don't get this. Why can't the DE/print version be resold? I just assumed it was the print version you can buy alone, plus the DE version. Why can't you sell the print version from the DE pack if you can sell the print version if you buy it alone?

I'm guessing, now, that the two print versions are different? How? Why?

#44 Kathryn

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 11:01 PM

So, I don't get this. Why can't the DE/print version be resold? I just assumed it was the print version you can buy alone, plus the DE version. Why can't you sell the print version from the DE pack if you can sell the print version if you buy it alone?

I'm guessing, now, that the two print versions are different? How? Why?


No, they aren't different in content. If you go through their buying guide and click on "What's This?" next to resale option, it says:

"Digital Edition (DE) products are licensed for one family only, and that family gets to use it for all of eternity (or until their school years end, whichever comes first). DE products cannot be given or resold to another family because of industry-standard software (or ebook) copyright reasons. If being able to sell your copy of Tapestry products once you're done is important to you, you need to choose the print-only format. The paper copy of the curriculum that comes as part of the DE + Print Copy option is not resalable because it's purely a paper-and-ink copy (that we are happy to permit for your convenience) of your DE Tapestry license."

#45 besroma

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 11:04 PM

I got mine in the mail the other day. It did say Maria Somerville 2009 Not for Resale on every page. I sent it back already; just waiting on a refund.


I hope your refund goes through smoothly!

#46 Kathryn

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 11:04 PM

In other words, what you're buying is a software license and an already-printed-for-your -convenience copy of the material. Selling the print copy would be like buying any other digital media, making a copy of it, and selling the copy while retaining the digital one you own. It's copyright infringement.

#47 beth83

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 11:18 PM

No, they aren't different in content. If you go through their buying guide and click on "What's This?" next to resale option, it says:

"Digital Edition (DE) products are licensed for one family only, and that family gets to use it for all of eternity (or until their school years end, whichever comes first). DE products cannot be given or resold to another family because of industry-standard software (or ebook) copyright reasons. If being able to sell your copy of Tapestry products once you're done is important to you, you need to choose the print-only format. The paper copy of the curriculum that comes as part of the DE + Print Copy option is not resalable because it's purely a paper-and-ink copy (that we are happy to permit for your convenience) of your DE Tapestry license."


I completely understand your second response (that I am not quoting). As far as the above comment... Is there anything different between the two print copies. Aren't they both paper-and-ink copies? Are you getting anything more in the print-only option?

Are you basically screwing yourself over if you buy the combo pack because it is really the same print that is sellable if bought alone, but since they can't track the usage of the DE you can't resale either piece of the combo?

#48 curriculumhoarder

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 12:13 AM

I completely understand your second response (that I am not quoting). As far as the above comment... Is there anything different between the two print copies. Aren't they both paper-and-ink copies? Are you getting anything more in the print-only option?

Are you basically screwing yourself over if you buy the combo pack because it is really the same print that is sellable if bought alone, but since they can't track the usage of the DE you can't resale either piece of the combo?


The biggest difference is the with the DE/combo, you get unlimited DE updates. So, as time goes one, the printed version (with or without DE) slowly becomes a bit obsolete. Books go out of print, new great books are written, TOG learns a better way of showing how to do something, etc. If you get either the DE or the combo, you get those updates. If you get the print-only, you don't. The print version with the DE is discounted because you can't sell it. I don't know if you could buy a full, resalable print-only AND a DE. It would be quite a bit more expensive, but it might be possible.

#49 AngelBee

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 01:02 AM

The biggest difference is the with the DE/combo, you get unlimited DE updates. So, as time goes one, the printed version (with or without DE) slowly becomes a bit obsolete. Books go out of print, new great books are written, TOG learns a better way of showing how to do something, etc. If you get either the DE or the combo, you get those updates. If you get the print-only, you don't. The print version with the DE is discounted because you can't sell it. I don't know if you could buy a full, resalable print-only AND a DE. It would be quite a bit more expensive, but it might be possible.


:iagree:

#50 Cricket on the Hearth

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 02:53 AM

I got mine in the mail the other day. It did say Maria Somerville 2009 Not for Resale on every page. I sent it back already; just waiting on a refund.


Not much else to be said, just shaking my head. I hope you get your money back soon. I would point this out to Paypal though, if you haven't already.


What's with the ads?