Musing on what is gifted

[EKS]

Say you didn't have test scores and the only indication of your child's giftedness (or whatever) came from how far "ahead" he or she was working academically. Where would you say a child was gifted? One grade level ahead? Two? Three or more?

 

I realize that there is much more to being gifted than simply being ahead academically but sometimes that is the only quantitative measure parents have.

 

What do you think?

[Capt_Uhura]

What I've seen mostly is at least 2 grade levels ahead. I think I've read that most bright kids w/ education families can work 1 grade level ahead. Those are the kids making 100s on all the tests and it's not really all that challenging. Gifted kids might have mastered the same content 1-2yrs before.

[LisaKinVA]

It can be developmental milestones -- physical and/or mental (gross motor skills, such as holding their head steady early, crawling, walking, jumping early -- or early language development).

 

It can be academic milestones... a bright child working 1 grade level ahead probably has to work a bit harder. A gifted child working 1 grade ahead will still find things fairly easy -- although they may excel in language and be math-average, or very math accelerated and language-average.

 

It can be artistic milestones... a gifted child in music or artistic expression will develop details in artwork at a much younger age, may have perfect pitch, play by ear -- or pick up and learn musical instruments with little or no instruction.

[CLHCO]

I think there are formal "definitions" out there but most fall short. Some fall so very short that I don't even like them. I realized you must have some standards, some checklists to separate out children to address their needs, but they are human systems that will be flawed. Children vary so much and often a child can be very gifted in one area and looking pretty average in others. Now and then you have a child very gifted whose personality isn't as driven so it doesn't show up right away. Or, like my son, a personality that is stubborn, defiant, and hyper, so it's not until some maturity kicks in that he is able to redirect those very traits to that big brain in the head. Mischief suddenly becomes giftedness.

 

I'm certain my just turned eight-year-old son is gifted but his personality doesn't show up in so many of the checklists. Most of it is musically but it spills over into science mostly, some math, though he's suddenly a great reader too. He has perfect pitch, listens to music on loony toons then writes the music with the various instruments into a score, transposed to the instruments' key and all, into our finale notepad. Writing musical scores is like playing video games to him.

 

He has acted this way for some time, even matching pitch at 3 months old, but he acted ADHD and his attention in lessons was low so he was only a touch faster getting through his first Suzuki book than the average kid his age thanks to much attention on my part or he'd have flunked out. Yet I knew he was gifted. Sure enough, maturity kicks in and he is suddenly slamming through a song a week in his current violin work, having even lengthy music memorized by the next lesson, and usually any new techniques pretty solid. (When he's not falling over in a flump because I pull out a metronome. Personalities don't change that much.)

 

So, how do you measure the "I've got a feeling"? Don't all parents? I swear his teacher considered kicking us out of lessons when he was younger. I'll have to ask her sometime. She seems excited to teach him now but back then I think he was a low point in her week! :tongue_smilie:

 

My older daughters are bright but have been delayed in some areas early on. Today they are at or above grade in *most* things, but they're not gifted. Creative, lovely, kind, yes. Gifted? Not like that and I knew it.

 

The youngest will likely be gifted artistically at least slightly. "I've got a feeling".

 

I think many kids have some hidden giftedness and it's no harm letting a parent plunge forward in confidence on that idea, if it's a healthy direction and not pressure. Sometimes a parent is picking up on things that will not manifest for a few years due to personality issues.

[Donna]

academically. There are many average to slightly above average children, who with lots of adult scaffolding, could easily work ahead academically. Sometimes the gifted child isn't ahead academically at all.

 

Giftedness is more in the way they process inputs and make connections that are more mature than other children their age. One example, the smart child can learn to read when taught at 4yo but the gifted child does it seemingly out of nowhere deciphering phonics beyond what was taught. (Disclaimer...this is just one example and certainly doesn't pertain to all gifted children.)

 

Check out http://www.hoagiesgifted.com for a lot of good information on gifted children. Also, I think this list is for parents of accelerated children because no testing is necessary to determine if a child is an accelerated learner or not.

[purplecow7]

What is gifted? That is the question.. As parents we all think our children are gifted and I truly believe that all children have talents above their years.

 

But to answer your question, how did I know with out the test that my ds was gifted? (he was my first). Well I would have to say it was because I read those expert baby books. After the first 6 months I thought ok the checklist are averages, then after the first year I thought ok everyone devlopes differently it will normal out by the toddler years. At the toddler years I stopped reading because the book checklist were not what my son was doing. I would have to say he hit most of the milestone way early in most of the areas. Then I went through a period of denial, ok all three year olds can have these conversations, read and do math. I was lucky and my children went to private daycare were alot of the children were ahead academically so I started to think ok - he is just a bit ahead and I believed that it would "all even out by third grade". Then he went to PS in first grade and my eyes were burst open. This is when I knew my son was just not working above grade level. He just did not fit in with alot of his friends, he thought differently. He said to me "mommy my brain is like a race car and my friends like your van". However he shut down in both first and second grade - if our school gave letter grades he was probable be a b/c student. He just did not do the work. Then he took the cogAT and NNAT for third grade GT placement - while he did well he did not score in the 99% he needed for the program. We had him privately tested with the WISCV. He tested PG and the results allow him to be placed in GT for third grade. The pysch explained the huge difference in the score by saying he had shut down in school. He loved it and is now an A student and has lots of friends because he says they all think like him. .

 

When my dd came along I was not reading any of those books and we just figured everything she was doing was normal and she was different then my ds. She did not read by 3, but she had dropped her training wheels and could go across the monkey bars - used to scare the other mothers on the play ground. lol. It was not until 5 when she said mommy I have read all the books in my room and well she had. She is now in first grade in PS and is doing great, she has lots of friends and is well above grade level. So while she does not exibit the same signs of gifted as my ds - we will wait until second grade testing and then we may do private testing so she too can get placed in the GT center school. If I were to guess I woudl say she is reading at about a 5th grade level.

 

Now I have 4 year old g/b twins - both are reading and doing math. Again while they do not track like my other two we have a feeling that we will be heading down similiar paths with them.

 

Each one of my child has different stregths and weakness, most all are working way above grade level in at least one subject. For my 4 year ds it is his ability to talk to adults and charm his way into getting them to most anything for him. Thus at 3 he finally learned to put on his own shoes.

 

Well that is the long answer and I think the short answer is that gifted children think differently - but they confuse us because one minute they are having this huge adult conversation and the next they are having a tantrum like a 2 year old. LOL

 

Not sure if this helps or not....

[mktkcb]

"a personality that is stubborn, defiant, and hyper, so it's not until some maturity kicks in that he is able to redirect those very traits to that big brain in the head. Mischief suddenly becomes giftedness."

 

Gosh Cheryl, I think my son and your's are twins! My ds 11 is exactly like this. It would probably be pretty dangerous to have them together in the same room LOL! I began having "the feeling" pretty early also. matching pitches at 3 mos.....wow......I noticed my son at 1yr, and he also has perfect pitch. He loved sounds of all kinds, loved music etc. He sort of blew the teachers away in his 2/3 yr old class at church when he played amazing grace note perfect with correct rhythm on the little tyke's piano. He had such amazing auditory memory that I was sure he was going to be a late reader, but he was reading fluently by 4. But stubborn???? Oh*my*goodness! He's always had mild sensory issues, has a very low frustration tolerance, and some attention issues as he is VERY easily auditorialy distracted. He plays piano. He's been playing anything he hears by ear since he was tiny, but I waited till he was almost 8 before I started him in formal lessons. He also loves to mess around with finale notepad. He did kindermusik prior. I'm so thankful for his teacher, who is perfect for wiggly gifted little boys. She finds music to feed his imagination, and puts up with a lot. After 4 years with him, tho, she knows him well.

I also struggle with how to measure "that feeling". My other 2 girls are bright also, so I get used to the intelligence factor, and tend to view him through my "behavioral" lenses. Its draining to have a kid that can make you want to run screaming to Outer Mongolia one minute, and the next minute have all the piano camp instructors telling you how amazing/creative/talented he is. I mean, these sorts of kids can amaze you and then leave you writhing in humiliation all in the space of 2 hours!! Anyway....other than the musical side of my ds, he also excels at math, loves board games, chess, science, japanese, computer games....etc. He hates anything boring and repetitive, and has less than stellar fine motor skills so hates the physical act of writing. Musical theatre has been a wonderful creative outlet for him also, as he loves singing/dancing. He's not great at the dancing part, but he loves it, gets to sing his guts out and be his dramatic self while learning all the good self control/group etiquette/maturity type things as well.

As my husband said after my ds's end of year piano recital at which he got all the certificates for the competitions/festivals/exams he did last year (he did exceptionally in all of them)....."Just think how good he could be if he actually *focused* while he practiced!" Sigh. I think the definition of "gifted" varies with each gifted child because they all are "extra" something, but all with different personalities.

Kayleen

[summer]

I would say at least 2 grade levels ahead too. 1 grade level ahead is common as on grade level is about the 40th percentile. I know of a child who has a measured IQ of 80 and is deemed for the normal track in school if that gives you an idea as to where on grade level is. The mom told me it is hard work for him, but he can handle it and he does it and he is not handling it because of determination. It is because the work is challenging, but not much more. So a completely average child with an IQ of 100 would likely find on grade level stuff to not be too difficult. An average to above average child could handle 1 grade level ahead without much problem. So I would say 2 grade levels ahead to be gifted.

[KAR120C]

And if it can, I'm not sure that it should. Any quantified definition is going to exclude some kids who really need to be included and include some that don't really need to be. I'll venture a suggestion and say that I think that what all the varieties of giftedness do have in common is that they are (or have the potential to be) "issues". Not necessarily problems, but issues.... such that ignoring giftedness doesn't work.

 

For some kids that might play out in "grade levels ahead" but not with all. With some it will be early developmental milestones, but not with all. Some will be just "different" -- different thinking or different personality or something... but not all. I think whatever drives a kid, and however and whenever they get where they're going, the only real purpose of a label is to match them up with resources... So basically if you need the resources, feel free to use the label. kwim?