Long-term experience at Kumon Center (not workbooks)?

[Nart]

I was wondering if anyone here has enrolled their child in the Kumon Center (not the workbooks, going to the actual center) to supplement math? If so, how effective has it been it has been long-term, what levels did your child study, is good up to a certain level, and has been worth the money?

 

My 5 year old has attended the Jr. Kumon math program at a center for the last six months. I was on the fence about enrolling him, but I kept reading on this forum, the best curriculum is one that gets done. He did MEP reception and half of RS A, but the spiraling drove me crazy and we stopped. He couldn’t write numbers so SM K and Miquon weren’t working well either. So in September I signed him up for the Junior Kumon program, which is twice a week for 15 to 20 minutes with an instructor in a small group. In the small group of anywhere from just him to four kids, depending on who shows up, he completes math worksheets, plays a math game, puts magnetic numbers on a board, and recites numbers in different patterns off a big 200 number chart. I think the Junior Kumon program is worth the money (around 12 dollars a class and homework sheets the other five days) but he is transitioning out of the Junior Kumon room (he just moved into level 2A) and I am not sure if the regular program is worth the money. We also have been doing some SM and Miquon Orange as well, which I will continue regardless if he continues at Kumon.

[NASDAQ]

I did Kumon up to . . . something. I don't remember. I tutor a girl who is in J or K, I think? And my oldest is in A3.

 

A lot of people don't think it's worth the money, but I do. My daughter isn't easy to teach, but the Kumon sticks with her. It's a very good habit to have -- timed math. The student I teach is several years ahead of her advanced placement math class.

 

It's a drill program though. You will want to keep teaching the conceptual stuff on the side.

 

If you want books that match the Kumon materials and sequence, look at Tokyo Shoseki:

http://www.globaledresources.com/products/books/math_elementary/index.html

[Nart]

Are the books by Tokyo Shoseki similar to Singapore Math? Is there something extra that makes them worth buying if you already have SM? I swore I wouldn't buy another math program after buying SM 1A and 1B with teachers' guide, IP, workbook, textbook, and challenging word problems AND Visible Thinking 1A and 1B AND Right Start A AND Miquon Orange and Red AND downloading MEP.

 

Kumon for my son really has been worth the money so far, but it is a big commitment. He could only write a shaky number 1 when we started and his hand floated in the air. Now his fine motor skills are fantastic. I love that he doesn't have to think about writing numbers, he writes quickly and automatically. The added math that he has learned has been a bonus. I keep debating whether to stop Kumon and do SM 1A and B for 6 months, or continue Kumon while doing SM 1A and B at a slower pace.

[quark]

We found it mostly beneficial. I forget which level my son was in when he stopped. I think it was Level E. We stopped after 3+ years, he started it before there was a Jr Kumon program. I think he began at Level A. The drill cemented his foundation in the four operations. It also taught him responsibility to complete his work without complaining and it is this benefit that I find to be of best long-term advantage of his 3+ years in the program.

 

We didn't begin with the view of completing the whole program. We had very clear objectives why we wanted him in it (to have enough confidence with the 4 operations so that he could easily move on to his real interest: higher level math). We also worked very closely with the instructor to customize the program to his needs. I made it clear to her that he wasn't interested in beating the clock, he wasn't interested in accumulating honor roll certificates etc (nothing wrong in that, however, it can become a bit competitive among parents depending on where you live).

 

We were lucky to have an instructor who was quite flexible. As a result, he came out of this program with his love of math intact (something I see lacking when kids only drill, drill, drill all the time).

Edited March 30, 2012 by quark
typos and grammatical errors galore

[NASDAQ]

Are the books by Tokyo Shoseki similar to Singapore Math? Is there something extra that makes them worth buying if you already have SM? I swore I wouldn't buy another math program after buying SM 1A and 1B with teachers' guide, IP, workbook, textbook, and challenging word problems AND Visible Thinking 1A and 1B AND Right Start A AND Miquon Orange and Red AND downloading MEP.

 

They are similar, but for whatever reason I find them easier to use.

 

I have both here so I'm going to compare them, okay? I'll call them SM and JM.

 

Singapore spends less time on the numbers up to ten. JM spends longer on this, several lessons. For each number, JM teaches the children to identify and then visualise a set of orange dots. You may have seen them in Kumon -- five to a row. The manipulative set includes a set of orange dot cards. The child drills on those before learning the arabic numerals.

 

JM gives examples of several types of drills or games for the numbers. SM spends more time on filling in the next number in a series -- 7 __ 8, etc.

 

SM uses "number bonds." While JM introduces dividing numbers into groups, it doesn't use this term or way of writing it. It also brings back visualising those dot cards. Before moving to addition, JM spends time on ten in particular -- 1 and 9, 2 and 8, etc.

 

JM has a section at the end of addition on using flash cards, which are included in the manipulative set.

 

Numbers to 20 is the same. JM uses little illustrations of bundles of ten, etc.

 

SM uses lots of different pictures -- rabbits, carrots, etc. JM spends more time using their personal favourite form of demonstration. Once you get to ten, they start using little yellow squares as well as orange dots.

 

JM includes a very basic section on time, and one on ordinal numbers.

 

SM spends longer on shapes.

 

Length is about the same in both.

 

Weight is not addressed in JM, but is in SM. Volume is addressed in JM, but later in the book.

 

This is where SM 1a (which is the one I have here) stops.

[ack25]

I was wondering if anyone here has enrolled their child in the Kumon Center (not the workbooks, going to the actual center) to supplement math? If so, how effective has it been it has been long-term, what levels did your child study, is good up to a certain level, and has been worth the money?

 

My kids have been in Kumon since May of 2009. The kids are different and their experiences have been different.

 

DD started at the end of 4th grade. Prior to starting, we were supplementing school with Saxon. DD is smart but not particularly mathy and did not like math at all. She had a poor teacher in 4th grade and we were arguing at home over Saxon. That is how we ended up at Kumon. DD started in level A and quickly progressed to level D where she slowed down considerable. She started this year - 7th grade - at the end of level H which covers some solving for two variables, inequalities and y=mx+b linear equations. She qualified to take pre-algebra at school and now enjoys math. HOWEVER, now she is in level I which is heavily into algebra - quadratic equations and factoring and working with square roots. We have hit a wall with Kumon. There is crying. Since she is ahead of her math class, the concepts aren't being taught - it is just rote Kumon. I am considering pulling her out in early June and reviewing over the summer with the Key to.... series and Study Island(provided by the schools)

 

DS started at the end of 1st grade. He had been asking to do Kumon because his friends went. He is VERY mathy and was always ahead in math. Prior to Kumon, he had completed Right Start Math through level C (except the drawing as his fine motor wasn't caught up to his math ability.) He started Kumon at level B (ahead of his sister - ug!) He progressed more slowly due to a younger attention span. Since ds does Life of Fred for fun and has completed LOF Fractions and LOF Decimals & Percents, he isn't having as much of a problem with drill outpacing concepts. He'll also jump on Khan Academy if he wants to/needs to learn more. He is in level H and is doing just fine. I am giving him the option to stop in June and just to LOF pre-algebra with biology but so far he doesn't want to stop. I like him in Kumon because it presents a challenge where he doesn't always master the work on the first try. Lest you think ds is perfect, we do have some tears from time to time because he just doesn't want to do the work that night.

[Nart]

They are similar, but for whatever reason I find them easier to use.

 

I have both here so I'm going to compare them, okay? I'll call them SM and JM.

 

Singapore spends less time on the numbers up to ten. JM spends longer on this, several lessons. For each number, JM teaches the children to identify and then visualise a set of orange dots. You may have seen them in Kumon -- five to a row. The manipulative set includes a set of orange dot cards. The child drills on those before learning the arabic numerals.

 

JM gives examples of several types of drills or games for the numbers. SM spends more time on filling in the next number in a series -- 7 __ 8, etc.

 

SM uses "number bonds." While JM introduces dividing numbers into groups, it doesn't use this term or way of writing it. It also brings back visualising those dot cards. Before moving to addition, JM spends time on ten in particular -- 1 and 9, 2 and 8, etc.

 

JM has a section at the end of addition on using flash cards, which are included in the manipulative set.

 

Numbers to 20 is the same. JM uses little illustrations of bundles of ten, etc.

 

SM uses lots of different pictures -- rabbits, carrots, etc. JM spends more time using their personal favourite form of demonstration. Once you get to ten, they start using little yellow squares as well as orange dots.

 

JM includes a very basic section on time, and one on ordinal numbers.

 

SM spends longer on shapes.

 

Length is about the same in both.

 

Weight is not addressed in JM, but is in SM. Volume is addressed in JM, but later in the book.

 

This is where SM 1a (which is the one I have here) stops.

 

Thanks for comparing SM and JM. It is a great review. I just spent the past 90 minutes looking at past reviews of JM and looking at the GER website. Did you buy the Math Kit A?

http://www.globaledresources.com/products/other/mathkitA.html

 

JM looks like it might fit in better for afterschooling than SM and be a better match to use with Kumon. I am glad to hear they use the dots. My son loved counting the dots in 6A and 7A. He never really got groups of five when we used Right Start A, but after counting over 500 groupings of dots in Kumon he was a pro at grouping things by five. In the fall my son is going to public school kindergarten where he will be using Everyday Math, so he needs the drill of Kumon. Even though I already bought SM 1a and 1b, I think I might just go ahead and buy JM.

 

We found it mostly beneficial. I forget which level my son was in when he stopped. I think it was Level E. We stopped after 3+ years, he started it before there was a Jr Kumon program. I think he began at Level A. The drill cemented his foundation in the four operations. It also taught him responsibility to complete his work without complaining and it is this benefit that I find to be of best long-term advantage of his 3+ years in the program.

 

We didn't begin with the view of completing the whole program. We had very clear objectives why we wanted him in it (to have enough confidence with the 4 operations so that he could easily move on to his real interest: higher level math). We also worked very closely with the instructor to customize the program to his needs. I made it clear to her that he wasn't interested in beating the clock, he wasn't interested in accumulating honor roll certificates etc (nothing wrong in that, however, it can become a bit competitive among parents depending on where you live).

 

We were lucky to have an instructor who was quite flexible. As a result, he came out of this program with his love of math intact (something I see lacking when kids only drill, drill, drill all the time).

 

Thanks for reminding that so much depends on the instructor and center. I drive past two Kumon centers to one that is 20 miles away from where I live because the owner is really flexible. If I want him to repeat some worksheets because they were difficult or just because our family is going to have a busy week, she is fine with it. They also don't emphasize the timing, especially with the younger students. I have thought about switching him to the center that is 4 miles away, but that center seems really rigid.

[NASDAQ]

I do have Math Kit A. It's not as sturdy as most American manipulative kits are. It includes a set of orange dot cards with numbers, a set of flower counter magnets, four booklets of flash cards, a number line, two sets of ten magnets on a strip, ten/five/hundreds strips, and a magnetic tray. It comes in a bag that has four little cartoon character-adorned boxes, one for each 'type' of manipulative. It's all very Japanese.

 

My daughter _adores_ the Math Kit. I have no idea why. She calls it "the green bag" and begs for "green bag math."

[Nart]

I do have Math Kit A. It's not as sturdy as most American manipulative kits are. It includes a set of orange dot cards with numbers, a set of flower counter magnets, four booklets of flash cards, a number line, two sets of ten magnets on a strip, ten/five/hundreds strips, and a magnetic tray. It comes in a bag that has four little cartoon character-adorned boxes, one for each 'type' of manipulative. It's all very Japanese.

 

My daughter _adores_ the Math Kit. I have no idea why. She calls it "the green bag" and begs for "green bag math."

 

Thanks! I just found the math kit manual.

 

http://www.globaledresources.com/resources/teachermanuals/MathToolKitManualv5S.pdf

 

I love all the illustrations and the explanations. I am assuming they match the chapters in the JM textbook and workbook, correct? So your daughter does Kumon and the "green bag math"? Do you try to match what she is doing in Kumon with JM or are they independent of each other?

[NASDAQ]

They match the JM books exactly. You'll know what to do when you see the textbook; They illustrate with the manipulatives.

 

Right now she's working slightly ahead in JM of Kumon. Before she was working ahead in Kumon, because she had a lot of trouble with early counting and learning the number symbols. She couldn't grasp the conceptual until she'd already had a bunch of drill. Now she's managing the conceptual first, which is very encouraging. She had the same trajectory with learning to read -- an inordinately long time on the alphabet, and then a much easier time after that.

[stripe]

I do have Math Kit A. It's not as sturdy as most American manipulative kits are. It includes a set of orange dot cards with numbers, a set of flower counter magnets, four booklets of flash cards, a number line, two sets of ten magnets on a strip, ten/five/hundreds strips, and a magnetic tray. It comes in a bag that has four little cartoon character-adorned boxes, one for each 'type' of manipulative. It's all very Japanese.

 

My daughter _adores_ the Math Kit. I have no idea why. She calls it "the green bag" and begs for "green bag math."

 

I just have to tell you wanted that kit so bad. I spent hours looking at pictures of similar kits on the internet and trying to dream up how to make my own. Look, there is a post of mine from 2008 about it. What I really wanted was that tray that fit tens, I think.

[quark]

I just have to tell you wanted that kit so bad. I spent hours looking at pictures of similar kits on the internet and trying to dream up how to make my own. Look, there is a post of mine from 2008 about it. What I really wanted was that tray that fit tens, I think.

 

It's probably too late for you now but I've seen items like the ones you linked in your 2008 post in Japanese dollar stores. They come individually but I'm quite sure they would fit into trays also sold at the stores. I love Japanese designed lunch boxes and such. I could spend hours in those stores. We find lots of wonderful little gadgets there.

[stripe]

It's probably too late for you now but I've seen items like the ones you linked in your 2008 post in Japanese dollar stores. They come individually but I'm quite sure they would fit into trays also sold at the stores. I love Japanese designed lunch boxes and such. I could spend hours in those stores. We find lots of wonderful little gadgets there.

 

Honestly, it's never too late! :)

 

I have a set of tiny plastic cookie cutters from such a place that I adore. I too could spend a lot of time in such a place. Especially under the guide of educational purposes!

[NASDAQ]

The tray that fits tens is definitely the best part. There's a line for five and you can put in inserts for tens or fives at the back. There are little magnets that are yellow on one side and white on the other, and a cover that slides back and forth. There are two of these. They are child-crack. The other children wander over and want to fuss with them.

 

Really good for visualizing simple addition too. The two colours are useful.

[kubiac]

I did it about 20 years ago and I credit it for my pretty good math SAT scores, which I credit in turn for my getting into some excellent universities here in California.

 

Doing Kumon in high school helped me not feel lost/behind in math for the first time in my academic math career, and the drill gave me the skills that finally made some of the concepts understandable.

 

I fully intend to do Kumon with my kid when the time comes (center assuming the money is available, if not center then workbooks).

[Nart]

Are the books by Tokyo Shoseki similar to Singapore Math? Is there something extra that makes them worth buying if you already have SM? I swore I wouldn't buy another math program after buying SM 1A and 1B with teachers' guide, IP, workbook, textbook, and challenging word problems AND Visible Thinking 1A and 1B AND Right Start A AND Miquon Orange and Red AND downloading MEP.

 

The tray that fits tens is definitely the best part. There's a line for five and you can put in inserts for tens or fives at the back. There are little magnets that are yellow on one side and white on the other, and a cover that slides back and forth. There are two of these. They are child-crack. The other children wander over and want to fuss with them.

 

Really good for visualizing simple addition too. The two colours are useful.

 

Well, never say never. I broke down and bought the first grade Japanese Math textbook and workbooks with the Math Kit. I really liked your review and the samples I saw online along with the manual for the Math Kit seemed so easy to implement. It should be here next week. I can't wait to see the Math Kit.

[kiwik]

Hmm. A zombie thread for advertising purposes?

[kubiac]

Yes. Every Kumon thread on the Internet includes a single-post poster who shills for Beestar. Grrr...