Guest Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 I've been reading my Riggs book today. It is explaining some of what I saw in the Spalding videos. I wouldn't understand either alone and only understand these together after having read WRTR in 3 editions numerous times and SWR. I don't think this is all that hard. I really don't. I just think we have crappy incompatible resources with high price tags on them. All I can say is it's a good thing most kids basically teach themselves to read! And also that even doing this "wrong" helps a LOT. But I just want to bang my head up against a wall, when it comes to deciding which stack of flash cards I want to use on Monday, because ALL the publishers need to smarten up, write their materials better and sell them for an affordable price instead of spending so much time and energy trying to compete with each other. Imagine if they got together and each did the part they do best and made the materials compatible. Ecclesiastes talks about chasing the wind. I feel like I am chasing phonics wind. Like that would ever happen! Each supports their own approach and it makes sense. Honestly, I personally would not want that to happen. I think it would just complicate things even more. There are differences to each approach. I like my Spalding phonogram cards. I just wish they had the handwriting instructions behind them. They are small though, so it may have been a space issue. I can't speak for the others but the Spalding cards, although small, are laminated. This will help them last longer. All the products we have bought are well made and worth the price. I just wish the shipping was not so high for Canada, especially with small orders! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Marie, I love the pictures and hearing your stories. You are the perfect teacher for your boys :-) My 8th grade teacher showed us part of the movie Don Quixote and to this day I'm still puzzled by it. Maybe I need to read the BOOK. Thank you for your kind words :)! I didn't mean you should read Don Quixote :lol:. I just meant find something that feeds your mind. My hubby and I do not have the same taste in books. He read Don Quixote in school and found it boring. He is into historical fiction and science fiction. I was taught with a version of a classical approach back home. I say a version because it definitely depended on the teacher. I had an excellent middle school teacher that I will never forget. She was a true inspiration but most kids hated her. I guess it had to do with the fact that she made us think. She taught me how to look for messages in what I read and to think and analyze what I am reading. To this day, I cannot read a book without doing that. I am scarred for life :lol:, in a good way though! Confession time. My student and I purchased the Spalding videos. We still don't have flashacrds or any of the good stuff Marie has, but we spent $100.00 on the videos. I don't think we were supposed to find them humorous :lol: I think it takes two 2E adults to prefer watching Spalding videos, to going to the movies, but I'm laughing harder at these than I would a comedy. Grade 4 is priceless. There is an announcement at the beginning of the video about how good Spalding is for low income schools, because all you need to teach it, is paper and pencil. Then the teacher just minutes later is having all the students aim remote controls at a giant computer screen where their responses create a graph :confused: I think it's the grade 5 students that look clueless about what they are parroting back at the teacher. I did learn quite a bit, but...do not think a cash strapped mom will get $100.00 worth of help from them, who isn't including the purchase in her entertainment budget. My student's entertainment budget is big enough to pay to watch me laugh, which makes her laugh. That was a bold move! I wouldn't have spent the money (even if I could afford them). I see them as geared to a school setting. Did they at least give you some insight on how to do integrated lessons? Skimming the responses. Dry erase. The kids on the Splading videos were using dry erase boards :confused: Not getting that! If the school is too poor for paper, maybe they should get rid of the smart board! It's SO tempting to use dry erase for those expensive color worksheets! It has always scared me though. Except for the circling and drawing lines type and maybe the crossword puzzles. I've thought of getting some covers and markers, but Marie, you are making me think not. I wonder how chalk compares to markers for handwriting. I know I can't handle dry erase. My hand just slips all over the board. I see everything as adaptations schools have made. I would not use a dry/ erase board to teach writing, unless I was dealing with an LD. I think Spalding would be stirring in her grave with some of what you described in those videos :lol:! To me, Spalding meant pencil and paper but I can see the benefit of using chalk also. It is definitely not the same thing! The dry/ erase markers just slide and it becomes so easy to make deformed letters. That was what happened to us. The chalk for a younger child I feel would have some benefit. So far, I have not had issues with Malcolm holding a pencil, but if I did, I would turn to chalk and sand before turning to dry/ erase. I do have a dry/ erase board but it is not meant for teaching handwriting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 These might be helpful to some people just starting out researching the Spalding method :): http://www.youtube.com/user/TheSpaldingMethod/videos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted April 8, 2012 Author Share Posted April 8, 2012 These might be helpful to some people just starting out researching the Spalding method :): http://www.youtube.com/user/TheSpaldingMethod/videos Thanks for the videos link. I didn't pay for most of the videos. My student paid for most of it. It was easy to be bold :-) The videos really did help me with the thing I wanted them to most. They do a good job of modeling the reading comprehension strategies for all 7 grades. And they did increase my understanding of sentence composing, but I still have a bit of a way to go, before I can confidently teach that. I'm realizing that Riggs does an excellent job of putting together the grammar and spelling rules notebook and I'm gleaning a LOT from that. It does cover the sentence construction too, but...I bought The Art of Styling Sentences and am hopeful that will fill in the holes. The Amish stuff, covers report writing and the friendly letter, which are both important priorities to me. I'm feeling like most of this is coming together neatly. But...it's just so much work. My student said to me today, "We really need to get organized". I almost threw something at her. "What do you think I have been trying to do!?" Ugh! I really like Spalding's reading comprehension strategies. Next to the handwriting, that is the part that is most useful to me. Spalding really nails reading comprehension instead of over teaching literature, for students who need a pared down and ultra efficient curriculum. For me and my students I feel the videos were worth it, but...I can't just give them a thumbs up. McCalls and Spalding's instructions on using them have been a real godsend, especially to my ESL students. But for other, I can see how they would find the reading comprehension dry and unnecessary. I'll write more about chalkboards and whiteboards tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 (edited) Thanks for the videos link. I didn't pay for most of the videos. My student paid for most of it. It was easy to be bold :-) The videos really did help me with the thing I wanted them to most. They do a good job of modeling the reading comprehension strategies for all 7 grades. And they did increase my understanding of sentence composing, but I still have a bit of a way to go, before I can confidently teach that. I'm realizing that Riggs does an excellent job of putting together the grammar and spelling rules notebook and I'm gleaning a LOT from that. It does cover the sentence construction too, but...I bought The Art of Styling Sentences and am hopeful that will fill in the holes. The Amish stuff, covers report writing and the friendly letter, which are both important priorities to me. I'm feeling like most of this is coming together neatly. But...it's just so much work. My student said to me today, "We really need to get organized". I almost threw something at her. "What do you think I have been trying to do!?" Ugh! I really like Spalding's reading comprehension strategies. Next to the handwriting, that is the part that is most useful to me. Spalding really nails reading comprehension instead of over teaching literature, for students who need a pared down and ultra efficient curriculum. For me and my students I feel the videos were worth it, but...I can't just give them a thumbs up. McCalls and Spalding's instructions on using them have been a real godsend, especially to my ESL students. But for other, I can see how they would find the reading comprehension dry and unnecessary. I'll write more about chalkboards and whiteboards tomorrow. I chuckled with you student's comment :lol:. I have too much of a hero worship over Spalding to turn to the spin-offs. I would feel like a traitor :lol:. I don't mean anything about anyone else by it, so don't take my comment personally please. It's just my personality when I idolize someone. I am hoping to be a Spalding geek like Ellie when I grow up :D (meaning mature as a teacher)! I really like what I have seen from Voyages in English and will be going with that for next year for Adrian for 3rd grade. Pricey but I think it will benefit me also. LA is a weak spot for me since I went to school in Europe so I try to follow the WTM recommendations on that. If I can do integrated with Malcolm until hopefully the end of grade 2, I will just move on with the same plan as Adrian (Voyages, WWE, and Spalding for spelling). I really liked what I saw in the videos that I linked. They were all posted a month ago so I stumbled on them by chance just by Googling. I was curious to see if there were any previews of the DVD's you bought and ended up with these :). Did you notice the kids (end of K) are all writing with pencil and paper at their desks? I would love, love, love to be able to do such smooth lessons. Love the transitioning! This is how I envision Spalding in the classroom, not what you described in the videos you watched, but that is not something SEI would have control over. Each school will adapt depending on their situation. The school in these videos looks like a normal school. So do the kids and teacher. Not sure why SEI would include the schools you mentioned in their videos, but I am suspecting that the expectations of parents in the different school districts (often influenced by the social class system) may have driven them to this. Marketing, marketing, marketing... companies have to keep up with the times, you know! Can't say that I blame them. Too bad I don't live close to you. I would pay for front row seats to watch them with you :) but don't have the budget to cough up that much money just for that. Glad they were at least helpful! Edited April 8, 2012 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted April 8, 2012 Author Share Posted April 8, 2012 I'm speculating, but I think the school in the videos is a low income school with children who did enter the class with limited English, but that Spalding brought in a highly trained teacher to work with 7 carefully chosen classes, using some expensive equipment. And I feel like the teacher is very selective which students she asks to answer which questions. It's very staged and set up. It isn't real. To start with, it's obvious this isn't the children's main teacher. The technology is spotty I'm assuming, and ONLY for the Spalding lessons. I wish we all lived near each other and could watch the videos together. It would be fun. Because these videos are so staged, and just...I don't know, but together we would find much to amuse ourselves with. I wish I could see more of the teacher in the videos you found. I think the teacher in the new Spalding videos either trained in Riggs, or Spalding training includes elements that are not in the resources we have, but started with Mrs. Spalding and not Riggs. I wish I could have taken the OLD Spalding training. Right now I feel like the NEW Spalding is as much of a spin off as the spin offs. Watching the new Spalding videos...I'm not sure what. But when the remote controls came out...I have no more loyalty to the "original" than a spin off, because this is NOT the "original" anymore. Reading through some of Riggs, I think I'm getting more of Mrs. Spalding's "original" ideas than I got from the Spalding videos. It was the clickers that did it. Something snapped in me. I lost my loyalty and trust. I realized I'm on my own here trying to figure out, when even Spalding's emperor is wearing no clothes, because baby, the emperor was wearing no clothes when the clickers came out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 I wish I could have taken the OLD Spalding training. Right now I feel like the NEW Spalding is as much of a spin off as the spin offs. Watching the new Spalding videos...I'm not sure what. But when the remote controls came out...I have no more loyalty to the "original" than a spin off, because this is NOT the "original" anymore. Reading through some of Riggs, I think I'm getting more of Mrs. Spalding's "original" ideas than I got from the Spalding videos. It was the clickers that did it. Something snapped in me. I lost my loyalty and trust. I realized I'm on my own here trying to figure out, when even Spalding's emperor is wearing no clothes, because baby, the emperor was wearing no clothes when the clickers came out. There is no "new" or "old" Spalding. The Method has not changed. Really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 (edited) There is no "new" or "old" Spalding. The Method has not changed. Really. That's what I was going to say :)! What the marketing people are looking to do has not affected the method. Now I am really glad I will never get to see those videos! The freebies on You Tube is how I want to picture a Spalding Classroom being. That's the image that has stuck in my mind and I will be revisiting them often for inspiration :)! Edited April 9, 2012 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 My 6th edition is on the way. Maybe I CAN do Spalding from the start with Malcolm :)! Those videos were truly inspirational! The kids were in fact reading in K . Imagine how much more a child can do at home one-on-one :D! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MouseBandit Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Loving all this discussion! Any suggestions on resources or techniques to do phonemic awareness with a 3yr old? My dd knows all her letters very well, and before my health took a dive we had just started going through the flashcards (cut out of 4th ed. and laminated them). We had also started on handwriting, but I was using tracing worksheets and now realize that is a big mistake. Would it be okay for a while just to work on the flashcards without incorporating writing? Not forever, maybe just a few weeks until I can make sure my energy levels will stay stable enough to be consistent with her. Anxiously awaiting my other WRTR manuals and the other materials I ordered. With all the detailed discussion, and started to re-read my 4th ed. again, I feel like I am FINALLY starting to "get it"! Tracey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindsrae Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Not an expert here, but I think asking a 3-yr-old to write--with a pencil and paper--would be asking a lot. Drawing counter-clockwise circles beginning at the 2 o'clock position...drawing straight lines starting from the top...those would be great. Especially if you are using shaving cream or sand :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Loving all this discussion! Any suggestions on resources or techniques to do phonemic awareness with a 3yr old? My dd knows all her letters very well, and before my health took a dive we had just started going through the flashcards (cut out of 4th ed. and laminated them). We had also started on handwriting, but I was using tracing worksheets and now realize that is a big mistake. Would it be okay for a while just to work on the flashcards without incorporating writing? Not forever, maybe just a few weeks until I can make sure my energy levels will stay stable enough to be consistent with her. Anxiously awaiting my other WRTR manuals and the other materials I ordered. With all the detailed discussion, and started to re-read my 4th ed. again, I feel like I am FINALLY starting to "get it"! Tracey I would not use the flashcards without having some sort of writing going on, even if it's with you holding the fat little baby finger helping it to "write" the letter in chocolate pudding or CoolWhip or sand while you say the sounds. To put it another way, I would not be doing flashcards with a 3yo. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted April 8, 2012 Author Share Posted April 8, 2012 I ripped apart my new 6th edition manual so I could scan and print out the handwriting pages. I do LOVE the new cursive handwriting instructions. And I do LOVE the new reading strategies instructions. I am confused by what is marketing and what is method. I don't always know which is which. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted April 8, 2012 Author Share Posted April 8, 2012 I would not use the flashcards without having some sort of writing going on, even if it's with you holding the fat little baby finger helping it to "write" the letter in chocolate pudding or CoolWhip or sand while you say the sounds. To put it another way, I would not be doing flashcards with a 3yo. :-) I read recently, that the shoulder muscles should be used for preschoolers, when "writing". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 (edited) I ripped apart my new 6th edition manual so I could scan and print out the handwriting pages. I do LOVE the new cursive handwriting instructions. And I do LOVE the new reading strategies instructions. I am confused by what is marketing and what is method. I don't always know which is which. Bear with me while I type with one hand. I burnt my right hand Saturday night and did not realize I had a 3rd degree burn until my hubby forced me to go to the emergency. Anyway, the Spalding manual is the method, as Ellie would say :). The TG's give you guidance but always refer you back to the manual. I was thinking about the videos as you described them. I tend to over-think things :tongue_smilie:! I was thinking that with young children, anything that will make things more interactive, is a good idea to explore. We do that all the time don't we? I know I do! Adapting does not change the method ;). Like Ellie said, you can guide the child's hand with writing. That was what I did with Adrian at the age of 4, when I was teaching him how to write. He had a decent grip but now I wish I had focused more on using sensory materials with him. Kids are learning how to read at a much younger age these days. Making the method more appealing and helping the child connect with what is being taught, does not change the method. This is what I have come to realize. I will be ripping apart my 6th when it gets here and my hand is better. You can see from my pic that I have done this with my 5th also. I followed Ellie's advice on this since I don't sell our homeschool stuff anyway. It has made it much easier to use this way. Anyway, one hand typing, very sloooow so I better get going. I will share how I feel about the 6th edition when it arrives. I did not buy it for the cursive. I bought it to check out the integrated lessons, hoping that it might be a bit more like the 4th, only better. I really really wanted the morphology and a couple of other things. I am holding off on OPGTR until I try Spalding from the start with Malcolm first. In the WTM JW and SWB do say that the grammar stage is the memorization stage. So... I will teach Malcolm the other sounds (he already knows the first sounds of the 26 letters), even if it's just memorization and does not fully make sense right now. Eventually things will fall into place. My advice, not to anyone in particular is, do what you see your child is capable of doing without frustration. If you read Montessori's books you would be amazed by what toddlers can do. Every child learns differently, and there's nothing wrong with that! We teach to our child's strengths. This is what the wonderful ladies on the SN board and reading Temple Grandin's books have taught me. This does not just apply to children with learning differences :). Edited April 10, 2012 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted April 10, 2012 Author Share Posted April 10, 2012 Does anyone know where we can download 5/8 ruled paper, that is similar to Spalding primary paper? This one isn't quite 5/8, but it is close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boscopup Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Does anyone know where we can download 5/8 ruled paper, that is similar to Spalding primary paper? This one isn't quite 5/8, but it is close. I couldn't find one, so I made my own in Word. PM me your email addy and I'll send you a copy. I even made pages with clocks. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
besroma Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 I ripped apart my new 6th edition manual so I could scan and print out the handwriting pages. I do LOVE the new cursive handwriting instructions. And I do LOVE the new reading strategies instructions. I ordered my 6th edition today. Can't wait to get it and see what you are talking about! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
besroma Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Bear with me while I type with one hand. I burnt my right hand Saturday night and did not realize I had a 3rd degree burn until my hubby forced me to go to the emergency. Anyway, the Spalding manual is the method, as Ellie would say :). I will be ripping apart my 6th when it gets here and my hand is better. You can see from my pic that I have done this with my 5th also. I followed Ellie's advice on this since I don't sell our homeschool stuff anyway. It has made it much easier to use this way. Anyway, one hand typing, very sloooow so I better get going. It's amazing you typed your entire post with one hand. I hope your hand feels better soon.:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoZeeCo's Mom Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 I couldn't find one, so I made my own in Word. PM me your email addy and I'll send you a copy. I even made pages with clocks. :D Ooooooo I would love to have a copy! I hope you don't mind if I PM you, too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MouseBandit Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Um me too!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 It's amazing you typed your entire post with one hand. I hope your hand feels better soon.:) Thank you :)! I am actually ambidextrous but most things require two hands so things are going really slooooow. Unfortunately the 3rd degree covers about 80% of the top of my right hand (I'll spare you the graphic details) and I have 2nd degree on 3 fingers, so they had to wrap my hand like a mitten. Ever try to do things with a mitten on :tongue_smilie:? Oh well! That will teach me to rush around while taking hot rice pasta off the stove! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted April 10, 2012 Author Share Posted April 10, 2012 Marie, that sounds awful! :-( I'm so sorry to hear about your hand! Is it bad enough that it will require physical therapy? I had a friend with a similar injury but from popcorn oil and it required 2 years of therapy, and years of wearing a pressure bandage. I hope yours is less severe, than that. Is the international shipping at Adoremus Books cheaper than from Spalding? They sell the flashacards and both types of readers and the notebooks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 (edited) Marie, that sounds awful! :-( I'm so sorry to hear about your hand! Is it bad enough that it will require physical therapy? I had a friend with a similar injury but from popcorn oil and it required 2 years of therapy, and years of wearing a pressure bandage. I hope yours is less severe, than that. Is the international shipping at Adoremus Books cheaper than from Spalding? They sell the flashacards and both types of readers and the notebooks. Thank you :)! They have not said anything about that so far but I have to go in every three days. When I uncovered my hand in front of others (it was Easter Sunday and they were understaffed in the ER) everyone was shocked to see how it looked yet I had no pain. The nurse was worried there may have been some nerve damage and called the doctor. I had already told them that I had used honey on it and that was what took away the pain. I knew about the antibiotic properties of honey. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/06/100630111037.htm I did not know it would take away the pain. After going around for hours with tears rolling down my eyes (keep in mind I have a high tolerance to pain), Nick on the night shift (I did not call him), and praying hard for a solution (I did not want to have to take the boys to the ER, especially at night), I remembered about honey. I Googled instructions and after covering the burnt areas with honey I covered it with Saran wrap. The funny part is that they also used Saran wrap at the hospital after putting this on: http://www.medicinenet.com/silver_sulfadiazine-topical/article.htm Anyway, I think the honey helped a lot, and not just with the pain :). It also kept the wound clean from bacteria. Now we just have to see how well I heal but the nurse was really impressed when she heard my list of supplements after she asked if I take vitamins. Adoremus was mentioned to me by someone via PM. I did not realize that they also carry the readers. They charge a bit more for everything though, and even though their shipping was slightly less, the total worked out to more because of the price differences. Not sure about where you are though! I just put three of the readers in my cart and attempted checkout to see the costs, and that was what it showed me. You might want to try that too and see what happens. Edited April 10, 2012 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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