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Hunter
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Hunter,

 

I am not sure if any of these are what you are referring to:

 

HWT has a blue mat they use large wooden straight and curved pieces with for letter formation.

 

HWT also has wooden pieces with magnetic strips on the back they use with an etch-a-sketch type board. It has a slanted wand for writing, making it easy for the person learning to form the letter.

 

Here is a link to sandpaper letters to trace:

 

http://www.montessorioutlet.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi

 

The mom that has the Delightful Learning blog has a tutorial for handmade sandpaper letters and soft, felt letters:

 

http://delightfullearning.blogspot.com/2010/11/sensory-and-quilted-rag-letters-and.html?m=1

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Marie,

 

I wondered about that, especially since I ordered those too based on your recommendation.

 

Then, I thought I would post the HWT just in case.

 

I posted the other links in response to this:

 

Somewhere a long time ago, I saw cards that a child traced with their finger.

 

I should have quoted her post...

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I'm following all of this closely and planning my approach to teaching handwriting and spelling to my kids.

 

I appreciate this thread. I am currently reading the 5th edition of Spalding that I checked out from the library.

 

Thanks!

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As soon as I read that the readers were not required and that Ms. Spalding recommended quality children's literature following completion of list A-G I thought that the readers were incorporated for business reasons.

 

I wonder if many of the changes (teacher's manuals, readers, videos, and so forth) are to make the method more attractive to public school systems and also "check the box" when compared to other school publishers. I have the first grade teacher's manual and use it for the spelling list section only.

 

Anyone who pursues the new items please let us know.

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Marie, Sometimes I am interested in knowing about resources you wouldn't expect me to be interested in. One of my students likes me to use quite juvenile techniques on her, because she likes to go back and teacher her niece with them, who seems to have the same type of LD. Also, I'm figuring I'm going to have at least one 2E grandchild at some point, since it runs over 50% in family and is also present in my ex-husband's family so my kids carry a heavy genetic load.

 

Besroma, thanks for the links. I think it was sandpaper letters. I didn't really know what the sandpaper issue was about, and just kind of focused on the finger tracing as a new to me idea. They were very nice square cards that looked a lot like flash cards.

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Ok, seems to be a Prime-only thing. I logged into my DH's Prime account and was able to see it. :D

 

Wow, that is much better than 4th edition!!!

 

I told you! :-) Isn't it beautiful?

 

I've been thinking of how to get my student on board to back up to manuscript. I'm going to do the circle and line exercises as "warm ups" before each lesson, instead of something to master BEFORE cursive, until she sees HERSELF how helpful they are.

 

This student LOVES the crayon "paintings" in Augsburg Grade 1; I have blue and orange drawings all over the apartment :-) She is trying to make the best yet drawing as a card for her grieving aunt, and lately has become resistant to writing out her own envelopes, because she is ashamed of her writing. The post office requests uppercase manuscript ONLY on envelopes now. What perfect timing, right?

 

I finally purchases levels 4, 7 and 8 of Draw Write Now, and am going to tackle the continent blobs and then the more realistic drawings of each continent. This will require neat manuscript labels.

 

I'm going to do a few Mr Q ESP labs and require manuscript on the graphs.

 

I think in all my scholastic $1 downloads, I have some real life math with all sorts of forms to fill out.

 

I think I'm just going to plan manuscript lessons before activities that require it, instead of making a big deal about teaching manuscript itself. I'm just going to plan a LOT of manuscript projects :-)

 

You could officially start cursive and just take a LOT of side trips :-) Moms and tutors can be passive aggressive too :-) "Of COURSE we are doing cursive as our main font, but...just again TODAY we need to prepare for this beautiful lesson I have planned. You DO want your project to be beautiful don't you and not spoiled by your handwriting?"

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As soon as I read that the readers were not required and that Ms. Spalding recommended quality children's literature following completion of list A-G I thought that the readers were incorporated for business reasons.

 

I wonder if many of the changes (teacher's manuals, readers, videos, and so forth) are to make the method more attractive to public school systems and also "check the box" when compared to other school publishers. I have the first grade teacher's manual and use it for the spelling list section only.

 

Anyone who pursues the new items please let us know.

I'd have to strongly and completely disagree with you.

 

Many public schools have been doing Spalding for many, many years.

 

The readers are not like other readers. They are specific kinds of writing, which go along with the kinds of writing the children are learning in the writing lesson (narrative, informative, informative-narrative).

 

The readers are also not required. You can do the spelling lesson alone, and it will be the best thing you ever did. You can also do the writing lesson also, or the reading lesson. But the effort required to teach the Spalding Method, even if you only do spelling, is worth it. (FTR, handwriting is not a separate 'subject" with Spalding. The manual is, after all, called the *Writing* Road to Reading.)

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Marie :grouphug:

 

Ellie, when you say "readers" you aren't meaning the McCall books? I know in the past I used to refer to the MCCall books as the readers and I know I can't do that anymore. Before I try to figure out what you mean, I need to know what books we are talking about, for certain.

 

I'm realizing I cannot figure out Spalding composition until I have mastered teaching the reading. Also, I need to rethink some of how I have been teaching comp to line it up with the reading. I'm very interested in this topic. I don't find it helpful that Spalding puts the comp section BEFORE the reading section in all the TMs and the main manual :-0 I know now to read them out of order.

 

Ellie, what do you think of the K TM? I was shocked when I read it, how little writing the Ks do. I wouldn't have expected that from reading WRTR and the 2nd grade TM. I don't have the 1st grade to consult. The K TM teaches writing as air drawing, clay drawing, sand drawing, but not writing on paper, until well into the year? I'm feeling confused. Skimming the TM to get the big picture didn't work and neither did intently reading it. I just wasn't at all sure I was coming to a correct conclusion.

 

Last night I sat down and read the 2nd grade TM lesson plans for the 1st time in months. I couldn't teach page 1 of that a few months ago. Now I think I might be able to randomly teach any page. I'm not sure how that happened. I remember HATING that TM. I thought it told me what it EXPECTED, but gave no ASSISTANCE. Now...I don't feel that way :-0 Somewhere along the way, I learned SOMETHING major by rereading the main manual and other curricula. Hmmm...I think I must have been reading actively and searching for missing pieces in whatever I read.

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Ellie, when you say "readers" you aren't meaning the McCall books? I know in the past I used to refer to the MCCall books as the readers and I know I can't do that anymore. Before I try to figure out what you mean, I need to know what books we are talking about, for certain.

No, I don't mean those. Spalding never referred to them as "readers, "either. :-)

 

These are the Spalding readers: Series 1 and Series 2.

 

 

I don't find it helpful that Spalding puts the comp section BEFORE the reading section in all the TMs and the main manual :-0 I know now to read them out of order.

Well, *something* has to be before *something else*, right? :-)

 

Ellie, what do you think of the K TM? I was shocked when I read it, how little writing the Ks do. I wouldn't have expected that from reading WRTR and the 2nd grade TM. I don't have the 1st grade to consult. The K TM teaches writing as air drawing, clay drawing, sand drawing, but not writing on paper, until well into the year? I'm feeling confused. Skimming the TM to get the big picture didn't work and neither did intently reading it. I just wasn't at all sure I was coming to a correct conclusion.

Why would you be confused?? I think the amount of writing is age appropriate.

 

Last night I sat down and read the 2nd grade TM lesson plans for the 1st time in months. I couldn't teach page 1 of that a few months ago. Now I think I might be able to randomly teach any page. I'm not sure how that happened. I remember HATING that TM. I thought it told me what it EXPECTED, but gave no ASSISTANCE. Now...I don't feel that way :-0 Somewhere along the way, I learned SOMETHING major by rereading the main manual and other curricula. Hmmm...I think I must have been reading actively and searching for missing pieces in whatever I read.

Well, they are teacher *guides*, not teacher *manuals.* There's only one *manual*. :-) The "assistance" is in the manual; the guide is just the guide. You cannot use the guides without first having studied the method via the manual. :-)

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I'm still working on my vocabulary.

 

Okay, I just looked at the big books. They do say "guides". It's just that in other programs the books that look like that the the TM. Okay, so these are TG. Got it, I think :-0

 

McCalls are what?

 

In the K TG, I'm having a HARD time figuring out how much PENCIL writing is taking place. If I wasn't conditioned by the manual to be expecting a LOT of pencil writing, at quick glance, I would think there wasn't ANY going on. I need to read it again.

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The McCall-Crabbs and McCall-Harby books:

These short, interesting passages are used to teach and test comprehension and develop higher level thinking skills. Reading levels can be assessed depending on number of questions answered correctly.

McCall-Crabbs Books A to E include science and social studies topics. Vocabulary becomes more challenging at each grade level. Questions measure literal and inferential comprehension.

 

:)

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...what do you think of the K TM? I was shocked when I read it, how little writing the Ks do. I wouldn't have expected that from reading WRTR and the 2nd grade TM. I don't have the 1st grade to consult. The K TM teaches writing as air drawing, clay drawing, sand drawing, but not writing on paper, until well into the year? I'm feeling confused. Skimming the TM to get the big picture didn't work and neither did intently reading it. I just wasn't at all sure I was coming to a correct conclusion.

 

The below quote said it all for me, and the main reason why I decided to just use Spalding for spelling with my kids:

 

Teaching handwriting and written spelling should precede reading from books. This is fundamental. The title of this book, The Writing Road to Reading, means exactly that: Writing and the phonograms create a wide-open road to knowing and using the written language
Note: Quote is from The Writing Road to Reading, 5th edition.

 

 

With a just turned 3 year old that already brings his books to us and sounds out the letters in the words, knowing that this will lead to reading, I am not prepared to wait until he is ready to write in order to read. That said, the book is talking about Kers and up, which are at the 5+ age range. My kid is more than two years away from K, and I am not about to wait that long for him to learn to read, when I know he can start much sooner. So, I don't know what the K TG says since I don't own it but this is what Spalding says in HER manual ;).

 

At the K level, the 5th edition also says that the child is supposed to be introduced to and practice reading the phonograms precisely. Precisely saying and writing the phonograms is listed as a "Challenge", meaning only an advanced Ker would be expected to meet that. Based on that, I would say that the average Ker is therefore not expected to write the phonograms and as such is not expected to start reading during the K year.

 

In the Planning section of the grade 1 TG there is a chart that shows the following, which totally threw me off :confused::

 

Writing Skills Trace:

Lower Case: W1 I/P W2-W32 P

Upper Case: W3 I/P W4-W32 P

 

Note: The above is condensed in order to give you an idea. Where "W" I mean "Week". As per the Spalding manual "I/P" means Introduce/ Practice and "P" means Practice. Here's where the confusion comes in, since when does Spalding handwriting involve tracing? And, if the kids are supposed to trace, where are the sheets for them to use to trace accurately, starting from 2 o'clock etc.? Also, the chart in the Spalding manual (5th edition) states that the child is supposed to reach mastery in reading and writing the 70 phonograms in 1st grade, but the chart in the 1st grade TG says practice up to the end of the year (week 32).

 

I strongly believe, and this is just me, that when dealing with a child one-on-one, mastery for an average child, can be achieved by the end of 1st grade. However, since the guides are written to cater to a school environment, they have to factor in all the kids in the class and the fact that there is no time for one-on-one, so they have made adaptations to the Spalding method, factoring in the circumstances.

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I am SO confused about what SPALDING is saying about K writing, but...I figure it doesn't really matter what they say. I'll just use whatever works for the student. If the student is ready for a pencil, we'll use one; if not, well do some of the suggested alternatives. And if I'm teaching out in the bush, we'll use sticks in the dirt. And if we are in the arctic, we'll write in the snow with seal blood if necessary :-) I've decided to stop stressing over what SPALDING is saying, because it was getting me nowhere good fast.

 

As far as I am concerned for ME ad MINE, writing can be WHATEVER works in THAT situation. It just needs to be something active that involves making or touching letters. There! Moving on to figuring out composition, which may be the end of me :-(

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I am SO confused about what SPALDING is saying about K writing, but...I figure it doesn't really matter what they say. I'll just use whatever works for the student. If the student is ready for a pencil, we'll use one; if not, well do some of the suggested alternatives. And if I'm teaching out in the bush, we'll use sticks in the dirt. And if we are in the arctic, we'll write in the snow with seal blood if necessary :-) I've decided to stop stressing over what SPALDING is saying, because it was getting me nowhere good fast.

 

As far as I am concerned for ME ad MINE, writing can be WHATEVER works in THAT situation. It just needs to be something active that involves making or touching letters. There! Moving on to figuring out composition, which may be the end of me :-(

 

Well, of course you could do whatever you feel you need to for the specific child but Spalding in her manual is quite clear, to me anyway, what she means by handwriting. To me, it is spelled out in the 5th edition (I am quoting the 5th since that is what I own), pg. 11-39. There is instruction for both manuscript and cursive, but of course the letters using the same starting point get lumped together into one group.

 

I have the SWR phonogram cards that have the manuscript writing instruction on them (bought them before we bought our Spalding materials) but since I have decided we are doing Spalding, I will just copy the notes and put stickies on the back of my Spalding phonogram cards, or just make new cards to go with the phonogram cards and just type the instructions on one side of those (as they appear in Spalding's manual).

 

You could do whatever you feel the student needs, however, Spalding is not vague about what she means when she talks about handwriting. The TG's may confuse the issue, not Spalding.

 

From the beginning, it is important to teach the techniques of easy, legible, and neat handwriting, using the phonograms for daily writing practice.
Note: Quote from The Writing Road to Reading, 5th edition, pg. 11

 

Also, you may have a few more problems with composition than you realize, if the child is not exactly writing yet ;).

 

Just my thoughts, anyway!

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This is all just making my head spin. I'm not going to worry about it though :-)

 

Somewhere I think I recently saw a Spalding chart where the phonograms were organized by sounds.

 

For example the long A sound was given, and then all the programs that made the long A sound were listed.

 

I can easily find Riggs charts like this, but in all my Spalding books, and online, I cannot seem to now find one. Am I imagining that I saw one for Spalding?

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This is all just making my head spin. I'm not going to worry about it though :-)

 

Somewhere I think I recently saw a Spalding chart where the phonograms were organized by sounds.

 

For example the long A sound was given, and then all the programs that made the long A sound were listed.

 

I can easily find Riggs charts like this, but in all my Spalding books, and online, I cannot seem to now find one. Am I imagining that I saw one for Spalding?

 

This is not how I understand Spalding to work. Are you sure you are not confusing it with one of the spin-offs you have read? This is one of the main reasons why I never bought SWR or any of the others guides. I had originally bought the SWR cards because it was way too expensive to buy the Spalding ones from Canada. This was before I decided on buying a guide and other materials from Spalding International.

 

Spalding does not separate the long sounds from short sounds etc. She presents the phonograms in the order that the child is supposed to learn them and all the sounds each makes are presented at the same time. For example, all the sounds the "a" makes (three sounds) and you continue in that pattern. The phonogram cards from Spalding International are in the order they are supposed to be presented based on Spalding's method. I think you are getting dangerously close to detouring from your Spalding path :tongue_smilie:!

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Besroma, thanks for the links. I think it was sandpaper letters. I didn't really know what the sandpaper issue was about, and just kind of focused on the finger tracing as a new to me idea. They were very nice square cards that looked a lot like flash cards.

 

Hunter, maybe these?

 

http://www.montessorioutlet.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi

 

Interesting background:

 

http://www.blog.montessoriforeveryone.com/montessori-basics-9-sandpaper-letters.html

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This is not how I understand Spalding to work. Are you sure you are not confusing it with one of the spin-offs you have read?

 

I really believe I did see a phoneme chart for Spalding somewhere, because I remember being surprised, followed by, why would I need that.

 

The phonograph charts list the phonemes next to the phonographs. A phoneme chart lists the phonographs next to the phonemes. It's the exact same information, just reversed in presentation. Dictionary pronunciation charts are phoneme charts. I just wanted to compare the dictionary phonemes to the Spalding phonemes.

 

Right on the Spalding flash cards, the phonemes (sounds) are listed on the back. There are 3 for "a". On a phoneme chart, for the sound that is listed as the second "a" sound, a and eigh and ai and ay would all be listed as the phonograms for that phoneme sound.

 

besroma, the second link is the most like what I saw. Thanks! I have yet to do much reading about Montessori. An obsession for another day :-) I noticed that my pdf copy of the 1917 World Book Encyclopedia has a large article. It has cute illustrations.

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I really believe I did see a phoneme chart for Spalding somewhere, because I remember being surprised, followed by, why would I need that.

 

The phonograph charts list the phonemes next to the phonographs. A phoneme chart lists the phonographs next to the phonemes. It's the exact same information, just reversed in presentation. Dictionary pronunciation charts are phoneme charts. I just wanted to compare the dictionary phonemes to the Spalding phonemes.

 

Well, like you said, I cannot see why Spalding's method would call for such a chart. What would it be used for? I think only Ellie would be able to answer something like this.

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Oh I am so glad you all started this thread! I am for sure going to be using the Spalding Method with our children, and had just barely started a few months ago when I got very derailed with health issues. We are just this week having enough energy to even get back on the forum or go through my books (we moved in the middle of all this, which certainly hasn't helped).

 

But, we've had a few good days in a row, so I am hoping we will continue that trend and be able to start up again with my almost-4 yr old.

 

I had originally planned to just move forward with the tools I had on hand: the 4th ed. manual, the phonogram cards I cut out of there and laminated, and lined paper that I printed off of the internet.

 

With my new health situation, I can see that I'm going to need more guidance. Usually I'm all for fleshing things out myself, but my energy and brain capacity is going to be very limited for the next 6 months to a year. Thus, knowing that and after reading through this whole thread, I have gone ahead and ordered the new K TG, the first 4 readers, the new 6th ed. manual, and a used 5th ed. manual. (Hubby's working overtime, LOL!)

 

I still do have a few questions, and I'm betting I can get them answered here!

 

1. As I think it was Marie asked, are the youngest students supposed to be tracing letters on paper with pencil? If so, are there tracing pages available with the proper letter formations printed on them?

 

2. For the youngest students, what exactly should be the very first things we start with:

a. phenomic awareness (I think that is what it was called in the 4th ed. manual); if so, are there any recommend materials or dialogues for this?

b. line and circle drawing on lined paper with pencil, in preparation for manuscript writing.

c. verbal phonograms with pseudo-writing (air, salt, sandpaper, etc.).

d. verbal phonograms with pencil manuscript writing on lined paper.

 

3. Are the McCalls books expected to be used in the first 12 weeks of Kindergarten?

 

I will probably think of more as I go through all the awesome links and information on here, and when I get my new resources. I cannot thank you all enough for all the information you've put in here. It is going to be such a HUGE blessing to me in getting back up to speed (when I was barely getting it before anyways, ha ha!).

 

THANK YOU!!!

Tracey in Oregon

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In my 1st edition K guide, the McCall-Harby book is used for day 1.

 

Mousebandit, I'm so glad YOU posted your struggle. I'm dealing with something similar this week. I have some weird Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome symptoms. About a week ago something scared me, and I started getting more twitchy, and when I get twitchy my language abilities and multi tasking abilities become quite limited.

 

My writing is fairly unimpaired this week, but my speech is affected enough, I haven't been able to speak and read aloud properly and I'm finding to teach the integrated lessons requires a degree of mental multitasking that I can't do right now.

 

It's been a frustrating week for me and my student and we have been discussing how to best plan for the next few weeks. We looked at the books shelves, ordered a couple things we wanted to try out, and are having to reevaluate how to proceed taking into the reality that any day, I can suddenly be incapable of understandable speech. I'm hoping this will pass quickly, but this was a wake up call for us, that despite how well I have been doing, and how much we have both been loving the Spalding lessons, that we need a back up plan.

 

What do Spalding teachers do when they lose their voices from a cold? What do they do on days, they are distracted, and not at their peak? Teaching explicit and integrated requires a fully functioning brain at peak performance.

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Well, like you said, I cannot see why Spalding's method would call for such a chart. What would it be used for? I think only Ellie would be able to answer something like this.

 

Charts like this are used by ESL teachers and teachers combining 2 curricula.

 

Phonograms are the order for reading. Phonemes are the order for spelling.

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In my 1st edition K guide, the McCall-Harby book is used for day 1.

 

Mousebandit, I'm so glad YOU posted your struggle. I'm dealing with something similar this week. I have some weird Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome symptoms. About a week ago something scared me, and I started getting more twitchy, and when I get twitchy my language abilities and multi tasking abilities become quite limited.

 

My writing is fairly unimpaired this week, but my speech is affected enough, I haven't been able to speak and read aloud properly and I'm finding to teach the integrated lessons requires a degree of mental multitasking that I can't do right now.

 

It's been a frustrating week for me and my student and we have been discussing how to best plan for the next few weeks. We looked at the books shelves, ordered a couple things we wanted to try out, and are having to reevaluate how to proceed taking into the reality that any day, I can suddenly be incapable of understandable speech. I'm hoping this will pass quickly, but this was a wake up call for us, that despite how well I have been doing, and how much we have both been loving the Spalding lessons, that we need a back up plan.

 

What do Spalding teachers do when they lose their voices from a cold? What do they do on days, they are distracted, and not at their peak? Teaching explicit and integrated requires a fully functioning brain at peak performance.

 

Hunter, I don't know what Spalding teachers would do but perhaps you should give yourself a break for a few days and just take care of things that you are able to. I am not a doctor but perhaps pushing yourself right now is not a good idea! :grouphug:

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1. As I think it was Marie asked, are the youngest students supposed to be tracing letters on paper with pencil? If so, are there tracing pages available with the proper letter formations printed on them?

No, no tracing. You teach the dc how to write the letters, and they write them. Littles can write them with chocolate pudding on a placemat. :)

 

2. For the youngest students, what exactly should be the very first things we start with:

a. phenomic awareness (I think that is what it was called in the 4th ed. manual); if so, are there any recommend materials or dialogues for this?

Phonemic awareness. This is discussed in Chapter 1 of the manual. :)

 

3. Are the McCalls books expected to be used in the first 12 weeks of Kindergarten?

No. In fact, *I* would probably not use them with 5yo dc at all, but if you really want to, then your 5yo will need to complete the spelling words at least through Section H (this is just from memory, mind you).

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Hunter, I don't know what Spalding teachers would do but perhaps you should give yourself a break for a few days and just take care of things that you are able to. I am not a doctor but perhaps pushing yourself right now is not a good idea! :grouphug:

 

When I rest, I think too much. Studying is soothing to me :-0 As long as it is what I want to study and there is no pressure and deadlines. I've adjusted what I'm studying and doing, but rest...I don't think I truly comprehend rest and think I am incapable of that. I'm not pushing myself, but need to keep mentally running from what is scary.:auto:

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Charts like this are used by ESL teachers and teachers combining 2 curricula.

 

Phonograms are the order for reading. Phonemes are the order for spelling.

 

Aren't phonograms the letters and letter combinations and the phonemes the sounds that they make? I am a bit confused why the phonograms and their sounds in the order that Spalding has them in and the spelling rules are not enough to learn how to decode words! There must be something I am not understanding. Personally, I would think that teaching the phonograms based on their sounds instead of teaching the phonograms in order with the sounds each makes, would be more confusing to a student. That could just be me though, not understanding the logic behind it! Honestly, if my kid's skills/ abilities were more consistent, I would just use Spalding from the beginning. However, I know that trying to teach my 3 year old all the sounds a phonogram makes would not work right now and waiting until he is ready to get that is not an option I am prepared to live with. This is why I found the solution that will work for me and mine.

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When I rest, I think too much. Studying is soothing to me :-0 As long as it is what I want to study and there is no pressure and deadlines. I've adjusted what I'm studying and doing, but rest...I don't think I truly comprehend rest and think I am incapable of that. I'm not pushing myself, but need to keep mentally running from what is scary.:auto:

 

OK, I did not mean resting as in lying down. I know you better than that :lol:! What I meant was resting your brain from things that may be stressing you right now.

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1. As I think it was Marie asked, are the youngest students supposed to be tracing letters on paper with pencil? If so, are there tracing pages available with the proper letter formations printed on them?

 

My quote about tracing was from the grade 1 TG (2nd edition). I am not sure if that was just worded incorrectly or what that's supposed to mean. My understanding though, based on the Spalding manual (5th edition that I own) is that the writing is meant to be pencil and paper, otherwise how is the child supposed to progress to spelling words! Well, that's just my thoughts anyway!

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Aren't phonograms the letters and letter combinations and the phonemes the sounds that they make? I am a bit confused why the phonograms and their sounds in the order that Spalding has them in and the spelling rules are not enough to learn how to decode words! There must be something I am not understanding. Personally, I would think that teaching the phonograms based on their sounds instead of teaching the phonograms in order with the sounds each makes, would be more confusing to a student. That could just be me though, not understanding the logic behind it! Honestly, if my kid's skills/ abilities were more consistent, I would just use Spalding from the beginning. However, I know that trying to teach my 3 year old all the sounds a phonogram makes would not work right now and waiting until he is ready to get that is not an option I am prepared to live with. This is why I found the solution that will work for me and mine.

Don't get hung up on the word "phoneme." I've been reading WRTR since, oh, 1983, and have never used that word in actual conversation or thought it in my head. :)

 

Just teach the first 26 phonograms (letters that begin with circles, then letters that begin with lines), followed by the rest of the phonograms in order, and call it a day.

 

I wouldn't even try to do much with a 3yo except to read aloud to him, help him learn correct pencil grip, and to draw circles and lines in the correct direction (that is, if he's drawing a circle-ish thing, help him to start about where 2 on the clock is, and draw lines starting at the top). And yes, you can tell a child that "a" is /a/, /A/, /a/ (however you indicate the third sound of a, lol). With a 4yo, you can help him write his name with a capital letter at the beginning (and you can tell him why) and lower case for the rest. Yes, you can say all of the sounds of each letter as he writes them.

 

I am a bit confused why the phonograms and their sounds in the order that Spalding has them in and the spelling rules are not enough to learn how to decode words!

That is enough. Absolutely.

 

This thread has gotten so long that I'm having difficulty in finding where all the comments have come from. :lol: So I don't know what else you'd need: the manual and the phonogram cards are really all you need. One manual, regardless of the edition. The Spelling Assessment Manual might be helpful, if only for the Morrison McCall Spelling Scale.

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I don't think anyone would teach a student the phonemes one by one, but I often wonder what phonograms make the same sound, and if I was the student, I'd be forever pestering the poor teacher, "What other phonograms make that sound?"

 

I just want to know. I have to overcomplicate and rearrange everything. Spalding encourages "reformatting" to increase comprehension, but I doubt they meant what I do :lol:

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Well, I answered a bit of my own question. My student showed up with an early reader about Einstein and she read to ME. I don't remember Splading's terminology for teaching a student to read well a loud, but I know that is on the list.

 

And extra phonogram flash card review is good.

 

Some of our Pathways stuff came in and I'm very pleased with some of it, but I don't want this illness to reroute me too much. I can be such a fickle curriculum hopper and I don't like that about myself.

 

I really want to find a way to steadily move forward without big swings in curriculum, even when life take big swings...IF, that is possible :-0

 

Marie, resting the brain is harder than resting the body. If I don't fill it with interesting, it wanders to bad. I don't know how to rest my brain. I wish I did. It's probably the key to my recovery. But for now :auto:

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Don't get hung up on the word "phoneme." I've been reading WRTR since, oh, 1983, and have never used that word in actual conversation or thought it in my head. :)

 

I was trying to follow what Hunter was saying more than anything else. I figured, if I can understand in my mind the distinction between the two, I might understand why a list like what she was looking for would be useful.

 

Just teach the first 26 phonograms (letters that begin with circles, then letters that begin with lines), followed by the rest of the phonograms in order, and call it a day.

 

I wouldn't even try to do much with a 3yo except to read aloud to him, help him learn correct pencil grip, and to draw circles and lines in the correct direction (that is, if he's drawing a circle-ish thing, help him to start about where 2 on the clock is, and draw lines starting at the top). And yes, you can tell a child that "a" is /a/, /A/, /a/ (however you indicate the third sound of a, lol). With a 4yo, you can help him write his name with a capital letter at the beginning (and you can tell him why) and lower case for the rest. Yes, you can say all of the sounds of each letter as he writes them.

 

Malcolm already knows the first sounds the (26) phonograms make and is already trying to make sense of how reading works. He does not settle for his books alone. He will bring us any book that the cover appeals to him (the other day he took down Cathy Duffy's book and he has paged through the WTM numerous times :lol:) and will show us letters in words and say their names. He has also caught on to first sounds words make and will say for example "e" says /e/ (first sound) and then he will tell you one, or two and sometimes three words that start with that letter. While I can tell him the other sounds the phonograms make, I know it won't make much sense to him for a while. This is why I want to start him reading first (Spalding method sacrilege, I know!) but I will continue to reinforce Spalding with him also, based on what he can comprehend. If he is reading well like Adrian, by the age of five, he will then be much better prepared for Spalding, I feel.

 

I am hoping by then, and for his K and 1st grade at least, to also follow Spalding composition with him and forgo on using a grammar program. I will be using WWE along side Spalding for grade 1. Of course all this could change based on how he is doing.

 

Malcolm already has a pretty decent pencil grip and of course we are still working on it and will be working on it for a while to come. This is from a couple of months ago. Around the time of his birthday. He is making circles and lines and I have followed your advice and am teaching him to start at 2 o'clock now, rather than later. I have also always shown them to start lines at the top. I never had the nicest handwriting but at least was never allowed to get into bad handwriting habits. I have tried to pass that onto my boys. When I started teaching Adrian to write, and even now sometimes, I would sit next to him reminding him about posture, proper letter formation, holding the pencil properly... I have been a strict (mean? :tongue_smilie:) mom. While Adrian does not always follow the 2 o'clock rule, he does follow the other rules and has nice handwriting when he is doing copywork. I made the mistake at some point of putting worksheets in page protectors and having him use dry/ erase markers and that did some amazing damage :glare:. Lesson learned though and we have worked really hard to bring his handwriting back to how it should be. Oh, and he likes curling some of his letters. I don't have a problem with that, once the letters are formed correctly.

 

[ATTACH]8409[/ATTACH]

 

Coming back to Malcolm, at this age of course, he still has a long way to go before he can form his letters properly. My goal for mastery in that area, like the Spalding Manual says, is to get there before the end of 1st grade.

 

Sorry for the rambling! For others that may be reading, I am not trying to brag. I have full knowledge of my boys' strengths and weaknesses and try to work with them. I don't have a background in education so the past 4 1/2 years and even before that (since my first boy was born) have been a huge learning experience for me and my boys teach me how to teach them every. single. day. Just when I think I have things figured out, something changes!

 

That is enough. Absolutely.

 

This is how I feel about the Spalding method also. While I have and will be teaching reading ahead of time, I cannot think of a better program to tie everything together and teach spelling.

 

This thread has gotten so long that I'm having difficulty in finding where all the comments have come from. :lol: So I don't know what else you'd need: the manual and the phonogram cards are really all you need. One manual, regardless of the edition. The Spelling Assessment Manual might be helpful, if only for the Morrison McCall Spelling Scale.

 

At least for as long as I can remember, this is the longest Spalding thread we have had :lol:! I like that! I don't think Spalding gets enough mention on here and people are intimidated by the method. I know I have been! Thank you to Hunter for starting this thread! I think it has been very educational for all of us researching, hoping, or trying to do Spalding.

 

If you remember, I already have quite a few of the Spalding materials :). Here's our package that we bought from SEI, so we have the spelling scale in our TG:

 

[ATTACH]8410[/ATTACH]

 

There are certain purchases that I have regretted during our homeschool journey. Our Spalding materials will definitely not be one of them :). When Malcolm is in K, we should have homeschool funding for him as well. I may then get the McCall-Harby and McCall-Crabbs books for him. I like the readers too, but I doubt we will need them.

 

Thank you Ellie for always being willing to answer our questions. My apologies for the loooong post.

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I don't think anyone would teach a student the phonemes one by one, but I often wonder what phonograms make the same sound, and if I was the student, I'd be forever pestering the poor teacher, "What other phonograms make that sound?"

 

I just want to know. I have to overcomplicate and rearrange everything. Spalding encourages "reformatting" to increase comprehension, but I doubt they meant what I do :lol:

 

Hunter, I can see this being something interesting to figure out on one's own, after knowing the phonograms really well. I still feel that this would make things more complicated for a young student. I am an inquiring mind, much like you, also :). I have come to realize though that where my inquiring mind leads me, is not always beneficial for my boys to know ;). For an inquiring mind like that, I would say "learn your phonograms really well, and then you can work on putting that list together". Working on something like this ourselves, will help it make so much more sense. And don't think for a moment that I don't deal with minds like that every. single. day. Adrian challenges me with his questions constantly. He is very observant too! When he was five for example, and we were following SL and while using Ruth Beechick's "Language and Thinking for Young Children", he caught that the alphabet poem in the book was missing the letter I. He wanted to know how they missed it! I never caught that and no one else, when I posted on the SL forums had noticed it at the time either. Both my boys are very obviously 2E to me, as I feel their dad and I are. We are both moderately right brained and I think the boys are too. The human brain is such a wonderfully powerful thing, with all its complex learning differences :)! Kids with learning disabilities are the true heroes here. They defy the odds and work more than twice as hard sometimes for things that come easy to others. The parents that are teaching these kids are even bigger heroes in my eyes :)!

 

Anyway, I am rambling now, but I know full well that what I have posted is something that you will definitely understand.

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Well, I answered a bit of my own question. My student showed up with an early reader about Einstein and she read to ME. I don't remember Splading's terminology for teaching a student to read well a loud, but I know that is on the list.

 

And extra phonogram flash card review is good.

 

Some of our Pathways stuff came in and I'm very pleased with some of it, but I don't want this illness to reroute me too much. I can be such a fickle curriculum hopper and I don't like that about myself.

 

I really want to find a way to steadily move forward without big swings in curriculum, even when life take big swings...IF, that is possible :-0

 

Marie, resting the brain is harder than resting the body. If I don't fill it with interesting, it wanders to bad. I don't know how to rest my brain. I wish I did. It's probably the key to my recovery. But for now :auto:

 

Hunter, I have been one that hates curriculum hoping also. My kids have taught me that I need to reevaluate every year and make changes to suit their needs. After all, aren't they the reason we are doing all this :)? I feel that educators like Montessori, Spalding, CM and many many others, were so effective and have put together approaches/ methods that have withstood time, because they observed what worked for their students and developed their approach that way. After all, how can we be effective teachers if we don't put our kids'/ students' needs first ;)!

 

I know that a brain like yours and mine never rest. The way I rest my brain is by focusing on other things for a time that help me relax and "rest" my brain. I have finally felt more at ease with my decisions for my boys and have finally started working on myself. I am following your advice :)! I have several resources and just bought the Well-Educated Mind on Kindle and am getting ready to start with Don Quixote, a book I have been wanting to read since my youth but never got around to it since I was not living in North America at the time. Is this relaxing for one's brain you might ask :lol:! For mine it is. I have one of those hyper-focusing type minds when it is something that interests me. When I am hyper-focused I reach another dimension. I am sure you know exactly what I mean ;)! That was the kind of "brain rest" I was talking about.

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I don't think anyone would teach a student the phonemes one by one, but I often wonder what phonograms make the same sound, and if I was the student, I'd be forever pestering the poor teacher, "What other phonograms make that sound?"

 

I wonder if perhaps you saw this in the HTTS TM or an online sample of it? They include this information. I think there are 8 phonograms that say a long /A/ sound, for example. They teach the same O-G phonograms that AAS does, and they have students dictate those phonograms, nonsense words, real words and sentences, and also list all the phonograms that make a particular sound.

 

That's the only place I've seen a list like that. I thought Spalding actually said NOT to do that? I'd have to re-read my manual again. :tongue_smilie:

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I wonder if perhaps you saw this in the HTTS TM or an online sample of it? They include this information. I think there are 8 phonograms that say a long /A/ sound, for example. They teach the same O-G phonograms that AAS does, and they have students dictate those phonograms, nonsense words, real words and sentences, and also list all the phonograms that make a particular sound.

 

That's the only place I've seen a list like that. I thought Spalding actually said NOT to do that? I'd have to re-read my manual again. :tongue_smilie:

 

Riggs has the chart posted right on their website. I think they use it just for TEACHER reference and to answer questions. Their revised phongrams are a little different than Spalding. I just really thought I saw the chart for Spalding; I remember being taken aback by it.

 

Marie, I love the pictures and hearing your stories. You are the perfect teacher for your boys :-) My 8th grade teacher showed us part of the movie Don Quixote and to this day I'm still puzzled by it. Maybe I need to read the BOOK.

 

Confession time. My student and I purchased the Spalding videos. We still don't have flashacrds or any of the good stuff Marie has, but we spent $100.00 on the videos. I don't think we were supposed to find them humorous :lol: I think it takes two 2E adults to prefer watching Spalding videos, to going to the movies, but I'm laughing harder at these than I would a comedy.

 

Grade 4 is priceless. There is an announcement at the beginning of the video about how good Spalding is for low income schools, because all you need to teach it, is paper and pencil. Then the teacher just minutes later is having all the students aim remote controls at a giant computer screen where their responses create a graph :confused:

 

I think it's the grade 5 students that look clueless about what they are parroting back at the teacher.

 

I did learn quite a bit, but...do not think a cash strapped mom will get $100.00 worth of help from them, who isn't including the purchase in her entertainment budget. My student's entertainment budget is big enough to pay to watch me laugh, which makes her laugh.

 

I just came back from a GIANT book sale at the city's biggest library. I only came home with 2 books :-0 My home library is becoming so good and well rounded, that I'm often passing up opportunities to buy books, lately. Today was the first time I realized how incredibly selective I'm now becoming. This proves I'm not just a hoarder. Or so I'm trying to convince myself.

 

Skimming the responses. Dry erase. The kids on the Splading videos were using dry erase boards :confused: Not getting that! If the school is too poor for paper, maybe they should get rid of the smart board! It's SO tempting to use dry erase for those expensive color worksheets! It has always scared me though. Except for the circling and drawing lines type and maybe the crossword puzzles. I've thought of getting some covers and markers, but Marie, you are making me think not.

 

I wonder how chalk compares to markers for handwriting. I know I can't handle dry erase. My hand just slips all over the board.

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I wonder how chalk compares to markers for handwriting. I know I can't handle dry erase. My hand just slips all over the board.

 

Chalk is supposed to be better for getting the sensory feeling from the writing, much like you do with a pencil. OTs often recommend against using dry erase markers for kids with handwriting issues. That said, I DID use dry erase markers for my oldest who is writing phobic, and it did help him. He basically needed to write MORE, but physically couldn't handle writing more with pencil and paper. So dry erase it was, and now he can write quite a bit in one sitting with pencil and paper. The other day, he wrote out 6 exercises from R&S English 3 (copying sentences and adding quotation marks and capitalization where they belong). His hand did NOT hurt! :party:

 

Anyway, an alternative to dry erase markers would be dry erase crayons. They are more like chalk in feel, providing that sensory feedback. The only downside is that they don't erase easily like chalk does. You need a wet cloth to erase them easily, so erasing and writing again immediately is difficult.

 

I need to do more chalk board vs. white board research again... Our white board from Sam's has just about had it. It's cheap, so I didn't expect it to last forever. It lasted a good year. Now stuff isn't erasing off it or cleaning off it, not to mention the frame that is duct taped together. :lol: It seems like chalk board might be a better investment, and they have that dustless chalk nowadays (none of us has horrid enough allergies to be bothered by chalk). I dunno. I'll be setting up a "school room" soon where the baby used to sleep (all 3 boys now share a room, and the baby's old room is a toy room, but will be converted to toy/school room). I need to put SOMETHING up on the wall. The white board on easel in the living room is space consuming and a bit of a pain to use.

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I've been reading my Riggs book today. It is explaining some of what I saw in the Spalding videos. I wouldn't understand either alone and only understand these together after having read WRTR in 3 editions numerous times and SWR. I don't think this is all that hard. I really don't. I just think we have crappy incompatible resources with high price tags on them.

 

All I can say is it's a good thing most kids basically teach themselves to read! And also that even doing this "wrong" helps a LOT.

 

But I just want to bang my head up against a wall, when it comes to deciding which stack of flash cards I want to use on Monday, because ALL the publishers need to smarten up, write their materials better and sell them for an affordable price instead of spending so much time and energy trying to compete with each other. Imagine if they got together and each did the part they do best and made the materials compatible.

 

Ecclesiastes talks about chasing the wind. I feel like I am chasing phonics wind.

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