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Hunter
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Even before I made a tiny dent in understanding Spalding, I started using the INDEX for the WRTR Ayer's list to look up misspelled words. I'd find the word in the Ayer's list and read the rules listed in the 2nd column, and then look those up. If a 2 letter group was underlined, I'd look that up, too.

 

I learned how to spell rhythm. rh says r, y say i, th says th, m says m. I was hooked. I was studying Waldorf on a broken iPad that underlined all misspelled words in red, but didn't give suggestions to fix them. Trying to spell rhythm over and over again was making me tear my hair out! It was always underlined in red.

 

Then I started playing around with just using the SWR audio CDs to give myself spelling tests. For misspelled words, I just read the rules, and then took another test.

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Logic of English looks good to me because it is scripted and clear. I think that the WRtR manual is ridiculous. If the method is superior than why have so many editions of the manual and have to buy each one to piece together a way to use a simple, highly effective method? Grrrrrr. Why can't it be as simple as Ellie says it is?:confused:

 

I want structure, phonograms, rules, and penmanship and a sequence to follow. How do I get that from those WRtR manuals without so much stress?

 

I am using SWR, which has similar issues. It is very frustrating that one cannot just follow the instructions and get started the next day or week. I have almost finished my second year with SWR, and I have just begun teaching my second dc, and I am just beginning to feel pretty competent. But here is why I have stuck with SWR. When you have a program with lots of pieces but that is not scheduled or scripted, you have a program that you can tailor to the specific and changing needs of your student. If you have an "average" student, then I would encourage you to look at programs like AAS and LOE. But if your student has any kind of special needs, either gifted or learning disibilities or in need of remediation, then I would encourage you to stick with Spalding or SWR, because in the long run, you can better help your dc.

 

Regardless of which program you go with, you might consider joining the SWR Yahoo Group. I don't know if there are such groups associated with the other programs, but the folks on the SWR Yahoo Group have been immensely helpful. Even just lurking has been helpful to me.

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I am using SWR, which has similar issues. It is very frustrating that one cannot just follow the instructions and get started the next day or week. I have almost finished my second year with SWR, and I have just begun teaching my second dc, and I am just beginning to feel pretty competent. But here is why I have stuck with SWR. When you have a program with lots of pieces but that is not scheduled or scripted, you have a program that you can tailor to the specific and changing needs of your student. If you have an "average" student, then I would encourage you to look at programs like AAS and LOE. But if your student has any kind of special needs, either gifted or learning disibilities or in need of remediation, then I would encourage you to stick with Spalding or SWR, because in the long run, you can better help your dc.

 

Regardless of which program you go with, you might consider joining the SWR Yahoo Group. I don't know if there are such groups associated with the other programs, but the folks on the SWR Yahoo Group have been immensely helpful. Even just lurking has been helpful to me.

 

May I ask why you feel the bolded part above is true? Everything I have read on Dyslexia says that an O-G program will yield the best results.

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May I ask why you feel the bolded part above is true? Everything I have read on Dyslexia says that an O-G program will yield the best results.

 

I did not specifically mention dyslexia, as I don't have any experience with it. My point was just that for me, I find it easier to tailor a flexible program to my dd's different needs. Rather than tweak an existing schedule and script, and I can create my own to fit my student. I am not saying that this is going to be true in every situation, but I was just trying to offer a reason why someone would put up with a program that is not so "open-and-go."

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I did not specifically mention dyslexia, as I don't have any experience with it. My point was just that for me, I find it easier to tailor a flexible program to my dd's different needs. Rather than tweak an existing schedule and script, and I can create my own to fit my student. I am not saying that this is going to be true in every situation, but I was just trying to offer a reason why someone would put up with a program that is not so "open-and-go."

 

That makes sense- thanks for explaining. :001_smile:

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If the method is superior than why have so many editions of the manual and have to buy each one to piece together a way to use a simple, highly effective method? Grrrrrr. Why can't it be as simple as Ellie says it is?:confused:

It is that simple.

 

Buy one manual and one set of phonogram cards. Teach the first 45 phonograms (sample dialogues in the manual). When the dc know those, begin teaching the words in the Extended Ayres List (sample dialogues in the manual). If you have children 8 or older, have them write the rule pages in their notebooks. Drill the phonograms daily, both orally and visually, and continue teaching phonograms until dc know all 70.

 

The end. :-)

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I think that the WRtR manual is ridiculous. If the method is superior than why have so many editions of the manual and have to buy each one to piece together a way to use a simple, highly effective method? Grrrrrr. Why can't it be as simple as Ellie says it is?:confused:

 

Because the original author isn't around anymore to stop them from producing more complicated manuals and very pricey add-ons, IMO!!! :lol:

 

You might even look around for a third or fourth edition - they are SO much thinner and easier to understand. Very teacher-friendly.

 

I have the fourth and fifth. And the only reason I bought the fifth after teaching myself from the fourth was that my mother told me there were more words in the fifth's spelling list. And, you know, I thought that "more words" = "better book" - not true.

 

Teach just the alphabet sounds and handwriting. Start the spelling list. Explain rules and add multi letter phonograms as you go along.

 

 

It is that simple.

 

Buy one manual and one set of phonogram cards. Teach the first 45 phonograms (sample dialogues in the manual). When the dc know those, begin teaching the words in the Extended Ayres List (sample dialogues in the manual). If you have children 8 or older, have them write the rule pages in their notebooks. Drill the phonograms daily, both orally and visually, and continue teaching phonograms until dc know all 70.

 

The end. :-)

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

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This thread has answered so many questions for me! I tried SWR last year while I had the 5th ed. of WRTR on my shelf. I I read both and went for the one that had the lessons broken up for me (SWR). The markings were just too overkill (redundant- sp? on purpose), IMHO. I spent too much brain power on those and lost momentum on the lessons just trying to make sure I got everything right.

 

Enter PR1. Bought it and watched the videos while my eyes glazed a bit. Now that you mention it, it was missing the "why." Ultimately dropped it for PAL because of the expense and the pace seemed daunting for my 6yo. Some of it I have skipped teaching. It seems silly to me to teach 'ear' and 'eir' when we have already learned 'ea' 'ei' and 'r' separately. Am I making sense?

 

Lent out WRTR 5th ed. and am rethinking. Should I just read WRTR as a reference for the why's and use PR1? If not, how do I do this (spelling, reading, grammar, and writing with WRTR? The cohesiveness of and AIO program makes such sense and I like the streamlined approach. Some days I'm just a little foggy teaching 5 dc at different levels KWIM?

 

Thanks to all who have posted. This thread is most timely for us!!

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It is that simple.

 

Buy one manual and one set of phonogram cards. Teach the first 45 phonograms (sample dialogues in the manual). When the dc know those, begin teaching the words in the Extended Ayres List (sample dialogues in the manual). If you have children 8 or older, have them write the rule pages in their notebooks. Drill the phonograms daily, both orally and visually, and continue teaching phonograms until dc know all 70.

 

The end. :-)

 

Thank you. :001_smile:

 

If it is really that simple (and I believe you :001_smile:) then why make such a powerful method inaccessible by an enormous guide with multiple editions? Sigh. I am going to print out the instructions that Hunter and Ellie have shared, look up those sections on my WRtR 5th edition, possibly buy a 4th and 6th edition, and see if this won't just work for me.

 

Where do I buy the composition books with the correct line spacing? How about the phonogram cards and Spelling Assessment Manual?

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Because the original author isn't around anymore to stop them from producing more complicated manuals and very pricey add-ons, IMO!!! :lol:

 

You might even look around for a third or fourth edition - they are SO much thinner and easier to understand. Very teacher-friendly.

 

I have the fourth and fifth. And the only reason I bought the fifth after teaching myself from the fourth was that my mother told me there were more words in the fifth's spelling list. And, you know, I thought that "more words" = "better book" - not true.

 

 

 

 

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

That all makes sense Colleen. I think I need to find a 4th edition at the library and see if it clicks for me better than 5th. I'd buy the 6th just for the handwriting instructions. I love Spalding's handwriting. :001_smile: Off to check the library for that manual.

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Thank you. :001_smile:

 

If it is really that simple (and I believe you :001_smile:) then why make such a powerful method inaccessible by an enormous guide with multiple editions? Sigh. I am going to print out the instructions that Hunter and Ellie have shared, look up those sections on my WRtR 5th edition, possibly buy a 4th and 6th edition, and see if this won't just work for me.

 

Where do I buy the composition books with the correct line spacing? How about the phonogram cards and Spelling Assessment Manual?

A powerful method has not been made inaccessible. You only need one manual, which is not an enormous guide. Really. The edition of the manual you have will work just fine.

 

You buy the spelling notebook, phonogram cards, and Spelling Assessment Manual from Spalding Education International.:)

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Do any of you write out weekly lesson plans for teaching WRTR, or do you just follow the steps and sample pages? I really don't have much (if any) lesson planning time, which is why I usually do scripted or planned out programs. However, I do feel pretty comfortable with teaching reading because it is not unfamiliar to me. Some days I just can't make decisions like which phonograms to review, etc. These little decisions trip me up.

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A powerful method has not been made inaccessible. You only need one manual, which is not an enormous guide. Really. The edition of the manual you have will work just fine.

 

You buy the spelling notebook, phonogram cards, and Spelling Assessment Manual from Spalding Education International.:)

 

Yes, the spelling is accessible. Is the grammar, vocabulary, and literature out of reach? In my opinion, with only the 5th edition, it is. And that's why I keep reading and educating myself so that PR will work for me. I want ALL the goodness Spalding has to offer!

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A powerful method has not been made inaccessible. You only need one manual, which is not an enormous guide. Really. The edition of the manual you have will work just fine.

 

You buy the spelling notebook, phonogram cards, and Spelling Assessment Manual from Spalding Education International.:)

 

Thank-you Ellie. I'll look there.

 

I read through WRTR 5th edition twice. It did not feel accessible to me. I finished reading through it and still felt puzzled about what to do first. To me, that is inaccessible. :001_smile: But, I DID keep the manual and I'm re-visiting it now.

 

My library doesn't have the 4th edition but I did find it used for VERY cheap. :D

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Are the instructions from Ellie and Hunter the ones in this thread or was there another thread you are referencing? Thanks, I know I came in on the tail end of this discussion.:001_smile:

 

Yes, Ellie spelled out the basic steps just a few posts before this one (I can't see the post # at the moment).

 

Prior to that Hunter shared how she would rip apart the manual. It's a few posts before Ellie's.

 

:001_smile:

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For ME the integrated language arts has the priorities I want to focus on, but seems just out of my reach to implement. The 6th edition added the last 2 reading comprehension actions. I THINK I can do that now.

 

Yes, I think doing just the spelling and handwriting is easy IF you have seen at least a couple youtube and sample videos and do NOT try and add all the integrated language arts.

 

And as for the notebooks, it took me awhile to realize children under 8 don't write them. So I decided that ANY 1st year student can skip them and just do the spelling LIST, while teacher gets her feet wet.

 

Before the Ayer's list included all the notes and had an index, I think it was especially important to pre teach phonograms well before they were used in the spelling list. Also maybe when teaching a large class and trying to be as efficient as possible. But I've found that it's not a problem to introduce the new phonogram the first time it comes up in the spelling list, when using the 5th edition with one student.

 

I'd rather see people use the spelling list "wrong" than not use it at all. This wrong method isn't teaching anything that must be relearned when done "right" later on. It's just pretty much doing the kindergarten method with older students and not pre teaching the programs, and letting the student get a taste of the spelling list a little earlier.

 

The recommended way is best of course. But if the book sits on the shelf :-0

 

Separating the pages helps me. I get rid of everything that could distract me. I even do this when I want to study one of the integrated language arts subjects like the grammar. I say okay, this is all you've got. Do you want to skip this subject, make it the spine, or use it as a supplement. As I read it, I often want to use it as a spine and have grand plans to flesh out what it is there. But I don't follow through. So it's best to hide those parts when I'm doing the spelling and handwriting.

 

The indexed Ayer's list makes a great reference even for families not using WRTR. The handwriting and the indexed Ayer's list as a REFERENCE is worth the price of the book and maybe all some people want and need. Once they are cut up and bound, it's easier to see them for the 2 gems that they are.

Edited by Hunter
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The indexed Ayer's list makes a great reference even for families not using WRTR. The handwriting and the indexed Ayer's list as a REFERENCE is worth the price of the book and maybe all some people want and need. Once they are cut up and bound, it's easier to see them for the 2 gems that they are.

 

So, for just this, is the 6th edition enough? I am looking simply for the two things you mentioned. ..handwriting instruction and a spelling reference list.

 

And thank you for all the time you have taken to flesh all of this out.

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So, for just this, is the 6th edition enough? I am looking simply for the two things you mentioned. ..handwriting instruction and a spelling reference list.

 

And thank you for all the time you have taken to flesh all of this out.

 

Yes, the 6th is all you need for handwriting and even FULL spelling implementation if you want it.

 

I've seen few people take advantage of the 5th or 6th edition as a spelling REFERENCE, even though they use The ABC's and All Their Tricks as a reference and it's not as good, in my opinion.

 

The 4th and 5th are only needed for people trying to implement the full integrated Langauge Arts without buying the $75 TMs.

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I read through WRTR 5th edition twice. It did not feel accessible to me.

 

Once I have read through something twice, I have to find a way to interact with it and do SOMETHING, before passively reading again.

 

That is when I start to look for ANY way, even a "wrong" way to do something. I think, "hmm...what would happen if I...?" Then I try stuff and only THEN go back and read some more.

 

And I use things all the time in ways they were not designed to be used. I cooked my bread this morning in the lid of my cast iron pot. I put the pot upside down, on top of the lid, while it rises to keep it moist.

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Yes, the 6th is all you need for handwriting and even FULL spelling implementation if you want it.

 

I've seen few people take advantage of the 5th or 6th edition as a spelling REFERENCE, even though they use The ABC's and All Their Tricks as a reference and it's not as good, in my opinion.

 

The 4th and 5th are only needed for people trying to implement the full integrated Langauge Arts without buying the $75 TMs.

 

 

Thank you.:)

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Which videos would you recommend to watch, Hunter?

 

I have two kids with suspected dyslexia. Right now we are using Apples & Pears. I love AAS and use it for my eldest dd, but for some reason my ds started to flounder with it. I can't say I'm terribly impressed with A&P, though. It doesn't explain anything like AAS does. My ds still remembers a lot of the reasoning with AAS and loved that part. But I don't think he likes just being told to "do and not know why".

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You can see the handwriting in the preview on Amazon. Here is the link. http://www.amazon.com/Writing-Road-Reading-6th-Rev/dp/0062083937/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1333155311&sr=8-1

 

I believe page 42 is the beginning of the print information and page 67 is the beginning of the cursive. The cursive section has been expanded from previous editions.

 

HTH

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Riggs videos

 

Spalding

 

 

several SWR videos

 

 

 

 

 

Songs

 

Not Spalding or SWR or Riggs. I don't know what it is.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inr38pPc_L8&feature=fvwp&NR=1

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5jABR0dS8Y&feature=related

 

Phonogram flashcards

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMAQLW4hIEk

 

 

and
Edited by Hunter
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You can see the handwriting in the preview on Amazon. Here is the link. http://www.amazon.com/Writing-Road-Reading-6th-Rev/dp/0062083937/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1333155311&sr=8-1

 

I believe page 42 is the beginning of the print information and page 67 is the beginning of the cursive. The cursive section has been expanded from previous editions.

 

HTH

 

Thanks Brianna, but I didn't see any handwriting pages on that preview. :001_huh: Did you see them there? Am I seeing something different than you?

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It still doesn't have page 67, where the cursive instruction is! :lol:

I know. I see the sample of someone's writing, but not the actual instruction itself. :tongue_smilie: I just checked with my local Barnes and Noble, nope, not there.

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I read through WRTR 5th edition twice. It did not feel accessible to me. I finished reading through it and still felt puzzled about what to do first. To me, that is inaccessible. :001_smile: But, I DID keep the manual and I'm re-visiting it now.

What to do first? Begin teaching the phonograms that begin with circles, followed by the phonograms that begin with lines. :) After that, teach them in the order on the cards, KWIM? Drill phonograms daily, by "flashing" them and by dictating them. :)

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You have to click on the picture of the cover. You will see that it says to "Click to Look inside" around the book picture. You will then be able to select the table of contents, first pages, and some other selections or you can type in a selection in the search box such as cursive or handwriting...this preview allows you to see a lot of the book, sometimes they give very few pages. You can also type in page 42 and the link to the page should show up below in the search results. I just tried it with the search term cursive and page 15 (first page to mention cursive apparently) comes up followed by links to pages 66 and 67. Because of how the book opens, I can't paste a direct link to the preview.

 

Find the picture of the book and mouse over it...you'll see the phrase "click to look inside"!

 

Hope that helps you out...

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Well, it is comforting to know that I am not alone. :001_smile: I NEVER thought I'd say this but I might go back to PR with my daughter. She is at the ideal stage for it. It flopped here before mainly because I was trying to wade through all of that material to bring my son up to speed. Grrrrrrr. It was so expensive and I bought and sold it more than once.

 

Believe it or not my husband is not opposed to going back to it. But, Logic of English is appealing to me. I'm reading her book right now and it makes perfect sense to me. Why wouldn't the Essentials program work? It is scripted and it looks like it is VERY organized with a lot of support in the text.

 

Why do you think LOE would confuse your daughter?

 

Hi abrightmom,

 

I've been following this thread (and the other LOE thread) off and on all day on my phone, and it is hard to type and think at the same time, so I am just now getting to this answer. Probably doesn't apply to the discussion anymore, but I wanted to answer :)

 

As I mentioned, I think LOE would be just different enough from PR to confuse my DD (emphasis on *my* because she is easily frustrated!). "English has 5 reasons for the silent final 'e,'" according to Mrs. Beers. Denise cites 9 reasons. AND I completely agree with the 9 reasons, but how do I incorporate those additional 4 reasons in PR? (I'm reading Unlocking the Logic of English...can't remember if I've mentioned that is this thread or the other one...anyway....)

 

I do plan to add the additional phonograms that Denise talks about in her book (such as "augh"), but I don't want to rock the boat too much. And, as Hunter has mentioned in the other LOE thread (I think--sorry! I'm getting the two confused!) I don't know where to go next if we do LOE. Does LOE "replace" PR 1? Or maybe PR 2 because it also has grammar and vocabulary? But then we would be missing out on the literature study. And I'm sure there are new rule tunes introduced in PR 2, so I feel like by choosing LOE, I ALSO have to purchase PR 2...and in that case, why don't I just take what I see in Unlocking the Logic of English, add it to PR 1, and move on to PR 2? Just put my big girl pants on and watch those darn videos :)

 

I wanted so much for PR to be the be-all, end-all program, but I think I will still end up making it my own and adding to it. We are doing Easy Grammar right now because the English teacher in me just can't stay away from it, no matter how many Charlotte Mason books I've read :) We are also doing WWE1 because I love how SWB develops narrations and writing skills in that series. And I don't think there is enough reading to get my DD up to speed (she loves being read to, but is not so crazy about reading)--is one page a day REALLY sufficient to get her ready to read Little House in the Big Woods next year? At some point, all those things may not be necessary, but I feel like we (ok, I) need a little more than PR 1 offers. I wanted it to be THE ONE program we used, but it's just not possible for me to keep from tweaking!

 

So here is my rambling rant about PR, how it isn't the "perfect fit," but I believe LOE would just confuse matters more. Or perhaps I am confused. I'm sure this post is... :)

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You have to click on the picture of the cover. You will see that it says to "Click to Look inside" around the book picture. You will then be able to select the table of contents, first pages, and some other selections or you can type in a selection in the search box such as cursive or handwriting...this preview allows you to see a lot of the book, sometimes they give very few pages. You can also type in page 42 and the link to the page should show up below in the search results. I just tried it with the search term cursive and page 15 (first page to mention cursive apparently) comes up followed by links to pages 66 and 67. Because of how the book opens, I can't paste a direct link to the preview.

 

Find the picture of the book and mouse over it...you'll see the phrase "click to look inside"!

 

Hope that helps you out...

 

Tried all that. It showed me the search results, but page 67 was grayed out, so I couldn't view it. If I clicked on it, it took me to the next available page, which was somewhere in the 100s. :glare:

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Tried all that. It showed me the search results, but page 67 was grayed out, so I couldn't view it. If I clicked on it, it took me to the next available page, which was somewhere in the 100s. :glare:

 

yep, same here

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Hmmm....I'm an Amazon Prime member...could that be the difference????

 

Have you tried searching handwriting? Oh, wait did you try it on Amazon again? The HarperCollins link also gave me the greyed out link so I couldn't pull it up on that sample on that link. My instructions were for Amazon.

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Tried all that. It showed me the search results, but page 67 was grayed out, so I couldn't view it. If I clicked on it, it took me to the next available page, which was somewhere in the 100s. :glare:

 

It worked for me today. :confused: I just had to make sure I was signed in.

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Marie,

 

What do you think about finger spelling? I have the 1st edition kindergarten TM and I was having a hard time figuring out when they started writing. I think they were saying to just write in the air for a long time, but I'm not sure.

 

Somewhere a long time ago, I saw cards that a child traced with their finger.

 

I saw a SWR video where the child wrote BIG on a blackboard.

 

I think you linked to some mats, where tiles are laid down instead of a child writing.

 

All this pseudo writing is new to me. I'm interested in anything you want to share about it.

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