Chris in CA Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 I always assumed it was, but I've read posts to the contrary. I would love a program that teaches actual literary analysis thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathleen in VA Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 I recommend Adam Andrews's Teaching the Classics. He is a very engaging speaker and teaches how to analyze any piece of literature. I saw him at the HEAV Convention here in VA a few weeks ago and I cannot say enough good things about him. His website has several freebies, including a quicktime audio version of the lecture he delivers at homeschool conventions (Literary Analysis from Seuss to Socrates), as well as literature lists and video clips of his DVDs. Click all around to make sure you don't miss anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in CA Posted June 19, 2008 Author Share Posted June 19, 2008 Thanks Kathleen, I have the syllabus and had the DVD's - loved them, but sold them after I took extensive notes - perhaps I should take those notes out again. I was looking for something that dd could do more independently, but maybe that doesn't exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathleen in VA Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Chris, I did the same thing - bought the DVDs, watched them, took notes, sold them. Now I'm wishing I hadn't - oh, well. I did buy Lightning Lit (early 18th cent.) for my dd15 last fall and didn't like it at all. I am one of these types that needs everything laid out in plain English. The manual was set up in such a way that I had to do a lot flipping here and there to get through a lesson. I couldn't just say, "Do Lesson 1" - I had so say, "Read pp. 1-5, do questions on page 15 and top of 16, etc.) Yikes, I really dislike that. Is it so stinking hard to just lay it out one lesson at a time for crying out loud?!:confused: Anyway, TTC is not any better in that regard, but I just liked that you could learn to analyze anything with it. He sells individual classes now, taught on DVD, covering Hamlet, Huckleberry Finn and soon - The Yearling. He also sells guides - w/o DVDs for other books. This year my daughter is doing The One Year Adventure Novel. It teaches literary analysis through the back door. In order to write the novel, you have to learn how an author thinks and works. She is a writer so this was a no-brainer for me once I found it - even though it is pricey!! Andrew Pudewa's site sells a literary analysis course that I would buy in a second if I had any more school money. I downloaded the sample and it looked excellent - again teaching how to analyze anything you read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in CA Posted June 20, 2008 Author Share Posted June 20, 2008 Thanks Kathleen!! Wow, the novel writing course sounds like something my dd would love, she too is a writer. I haven't looked at Andrew Pudewa's site, but I will - although it may be cost prohibitive here as well. thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DianeJM Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 I understand what some of you are saying about the learning curve on some of these courses. I have tried to implement a couple of biggies in my lifetime, and, splat! Nope. Can't do it. I wonder why I don't hear more about BJU literature courses. People like BJU for other subjects, but I haven't heard much about their high school literature. I was just at their display this week, and their brand new just-revised 8th grade course looked pretty good to me. I know many might look down on it because it's a textbook with literature in it, not quite the same thing as "real" literature. This one made me feel that I could actually do it. It had discussion questions on several levels, it seemed to explain things pretty well, and for the teacher it has many helps, that part alone was very attractive to me. I need something that spells it all out for me. I don't have what it takes to tackle (from what I am reading in the above posts) figuring out all these fancy programs, although they do sound wonderful, and often have me drooling. But I have learned that I need to keep it simple. I wonder if a course like the BJU I just saw is going to do the job. It's so hard to figure this all out. Thanks for asking the question, and thanks for all the responses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennW in SoCal Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Chris and Kathleen, I feel like a broken record because I'm always recommending this, but what about simply using the Well Educated Mind? Read the section about how to read a novel, have your highschoolers read it, then have them follow the method that is laid out. I have post it notes stuck on the pages that have the questions and steps laid out so we can easily refer to it as needed. You can always find additional essay topics and quizzes for specific titles at Sparknotes. It isn't as easy as having a prepackaged program, but in the long run it is cheaper as it is just the one time cost of the book! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathleen in VA Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Jennifer, I bought that book and sold it too. I guess I'm just a big baby but I need it laid out more. However, since you highly recommend it, I will consider it again. I did check out WTM from my library (I've bought and sold that twice!!) and liked the literature method in there, too. Are they quite similar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Is Lightning Lit - literary analysis?? Yes. . .and no. It teaches literary analysis in that one chapter / lesson would cover, say, "setting". However, the questions that go with that lesson would all be reading comp, yet the essay suggestions that follow do a fair job of staying with the lesson. However, I found two major flaws with this program: It's too easy to do a file dump at the end of each lesson. So what that you learned about setting? You won't cover it again for the rest of the year. (In my mind this one was "bigger".) It was WAY too easy for me to throw the boys a schedule and have them do it on their own. And, as much as I despise admitting it (because my time is so valuable to me); I think you honestly have to go through the works with the child(ren) for them to gain anything from it. (The whole "discussion" thing is the kicker.) So, as much as I shudder at the thought, next year I'm just going to have to find more time from mine to go through their literature with them. We will be using TTC. . . However, should you (or anyone) choose to use LL; I have schedules on my blog. . . :001_huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAR120C Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 ...that literary analysis can't really be "done" in a package. It has to include discussion, and ideally, discussion with a variety of people who might disagree with your interpretations. We have really enjoyed LL&C, and yes, it does introduce many literary analysis topics and does that very well, but if you really want literary analysis I think you need much more than any curriculum is going to give you alone. The way we've done it (which probably isn't perfect either, but which I have found ideal for our situation), is first we started with Junior Great Books in a group with about five other kids from our homeschool group. That had only a little to do with literary analysis, but a ton to do with the discussion. Second we added LL&C at home, which introduced a lot of the analysis topics (but the only discussion was between DS and me). The Junior Great Books group has evolved into a full-fledged book group, and what I find is that when we add in some of the concepts from LL&C (not all of them, just what applies at the moment) to the discussion, we get so much more out of it than either one can do on its own. It doesn't take a lot of "textbook analysis" (the vocabulary, concepts, examples) to add really a huge amount to the discussion, but it is extremely difficult to do substantial literary analysis without group discussion, and practically impossible to do it in any kind of "hand it over to the kid" curriculum. This isn't to say you can't get something out of it, even without a group, but that if you're really seriously interested in doing it as thoroughly as you can, you'll probably find all the curricula disappointing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathleen in VA Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 ...that literary analysis can't really be "done" in a package. It has to include discussion, and ideally, discussion with a variety of people who might disagree with your interpretations. We have really enjoyed LL&C, and yes, it does introduce many literary analysis topics and does that very well, but if you really want literary analysis I think you need much more than any curriculum is going to give you alone. The way we've done it (which probably isn't perfect either, but which I have found ideal for our situation), is first we started with Junior Great Books in a group with about five other kids from our homeschool group. That had only a little to do with literary analysis, but a ton to do with the discussion. Second we added LL&C at home, which introduced a lot of the analysis topics (but the only discussion was between DS and me). The Junior Great Books group has evolved into a full-fledged book group, and what I find is that when we add in some of the concepts from LL&C (not all of them, just what applies at the moment) to the discussion, we get so much more out of it than either one can do on its own. It doesn't take a lot of "textbook analysis" (the vocabulary, concepts, examples) to add really a huge amount to the discussion, but it is extremely difficult to do substantial literary analysis without group discussion, and practically impossible to do it in any kind of "hand it over to the kid" curriculum. This isn't to say you can't get something out of it, even without a group, but that if you're really seriously interested in doing it as thoroughly as you can, you'll probably find all the curricula disappointing. TTC also stresses discussion now that you point it out. I think you are right - this is not something that can be done by filling in the blanks or just answering questions at the end of the chapter, so to speak. When I listened to Adam Andrews session (Literary Analysis from Seuess to Scorates) he kept asking the audience what they thought and then he would follow up by asking why do you think that? I think the point was that not everyone is going to have the same answer and that points can be made for a variety of responses. His list of Socratic questions at the end of the syllabus for TTC is the core of the program and these must be discussed. I guess my laziness at wanting it to be easy is peeking through, huh? Looks like I'm going to have get down and get dirty and discuss! Thanks for the push! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhondabee Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Because I'm using it for myself (my oldest is going into 8th), and I love how it really helps me discover the essence of a work without telling me what I ought to be looking for. (Often, I find my discovery is a bit different from the slant of the online book-analysis sites.) But, one thing that concerns me is that there is very little literary-analysis-eeze (that's not right - but what I mean is, WEM doesn't specifically mention "denouement" or "microcosm", for example). The curriculum that teach literary analysis seem very focused on these types of terms and identifying these things in a story. So, I get scared that we're going to miss out on something important! I know that's silly. We are finding the theme, and we are discussing how the author develops that theme; but, still that "Oh, I hope I'm not messing this up!" feeling frequently returns! The other thing - and the thing that *really* frustrates me, and maybe others - is the lack of how to write about what we're discussing. My oldest (tho' admittedly not yet in high school) is still firmly entrenched in writing summaries. I'm trying to trust the WTM path, and hope that somewhere there's going to be a resource that will gently move us onto the path of writing essays. I know that's not the focus of WEM....But.....Could you please share what you've used for this? :) Thanks, Jennifer! Rhonda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIch elle Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 CLE reading helps you learn the facts (lit. devices, logic, roots, & voc., etc.), understand (apply facts)and then you can use what you've learned in CLE reading to other longer lit. works (analysis). Here's what's included in CLE reading 8: SUNRISE READING 800 – Where Roads Diverge 801 Analyzing story characters Working with the Latin word roots annus, quattuor, and junctum Identifying setting in a story Defining and identifying foreshadowing Identifying figurative language: metaphor, personification, simile Understanding and identifying allusions Considering the results of respecting older people Understanding and identifying conflict Relating characters’ actions to “where roads diverge†Understanding what an essay is Identifying the theme of an essay and a story Interpreting unusual figures of speech Rewriting a passage to eliminate a figure of speech Identifying the lessons taught in a fable Identifying the theme of a fable Identifying paraphrases Paraphrasing passages Identifying personification Extracting lessons from characters’ mistakes and examples Identifying the parts of plot: conflict, crisis, climax, resolution Labeling a plot map for a story Understanding and identifying prejudice in story characters Identifying a strategy for avoiding wrong judging Interpreting symbolism in literature Considering anger as a response to stimuli Considering and identifying satire Identifying the main ideas of paragraphs Writing the main idea of a paragraph Interpreting a metaphor from a Scripture verse Gaining information from letters, dialogue, and narrative Identifying allusions Comparing a character’s situation to a Bible character’s Identifying the main points of stanzas of poetry Identifying summaries of stanzas of poetry Marking the rhyme scheme of a poem Identifying eye rhyme Contrasting two characters Interpreting the meaning of a poem Applying the message of a poem to life 802 Identifying first- and third-person narrators Considering how point of view helps develop a story Identifying characters as static or dynamic Identifying a selection as romantic or realistic Identifying the theme of a selection Determining the likely veracity of statements Analyzing a poem’s structure Identifying beautiful language in a poem Working with the Latin roots jactum and dentis Identifying the possible varying sides of a story Interpreting description Analyzing character in relation to ‘‘where roads diverge†Analyzing how characters took responsibility Analyzing setting Identifying foreshadowing Applying principles from the story to life Interpreting passages from an essay Inferring from the essay Identifying onomatopoeia Marking the rhyme scheme of a poem Identifying similes Identifying a paradox Interpreting poetry Comparing a poem and an essay Identifying mood-creating words in a poem Telling why the first person to declare his cause usually seems right Understanding unity in a poem Writing an additional stanza for a poem Marking meter in a poem Learning the term iamb Identifying the thesis of an essay Identifying examples that support the thesis Identifying the double meaning of a title Working with the French root para Comparing characters’ actions to Scripture passages Determining character traits from actions Interpreting symbols in a story Using context clues to determine word meanings Identifying the elements of setting Interpreting and applying Bible verses Identifying an allusion Identifying proper response to life situations 803 Identifying a story frame Telling how a character obeyed a Bible command Telling how someone could have better obeyed a command Defining denotation and connotation Identifying the denotation and connotation of words Identifying the climax of a story Determining the broad setting of a story Working with the Greek roots biblos and philos Identifying reasons for characters’ feelings Interpreting figurative language Describing how different views of the same thing can be both right and wrong Choosing the most likely correct view of an incident Identifying the lesson taught by folktales Describing the characteristics of folktales Comparing two versions of a folktale Determining word meanings from context clues Inferring details from the story Identifying character qualities from characters’ actions Paraphrasing text from the story Interpreting an allegory Summarizing a list of items Identifying a statement that best states the idea of a number of statements Interpreting symbolism Describing the results of jealousy and envy Analyzing characters’ actions in light of “where roads diverge†Identifying irony Thinking clearly about disagreements Tracing the internal conflict in a story Identifying a character as static or dynamic Working with the Latin root centum Understanding the reasons for a character’s actions Identifying an allusion Understanding stereotypes Identifying indications of prejudice Explaining the irony in a statement Applying a verse to the story Paraphrasing a poem Interpreting symbolism in a poem Identifying the main idea of a stanza of poetry Learning the term anecdote Identifying the keyword in an anecdote 804 Identifying problem-solving skills Identifying actions that show persistence, observation, and understanding Identifying protagonist and antagonist Relating setting to mood Identifying character traits from actions Identifying the elements of plot: conflict, climax, resolution Working with the Greek root hydro Analyzing a character’s actions in light of ‘‘where roads diverge†Explaining how “talk leads to penury†Identifying the resolution of the story Determining word meanings from context clues Paraphrasing lines of poetry Explaining the poem title Identifying mood or atmosphere of stanzas of poetry Identifying the theme of a poem Matching paraphrases to lines of poetry Completing two parodies of a poem Identifying four types of fallacies in thinking Marking rhyme scheme and rhythm Identifying alliteration in a poem Identifying the moral Paraphrasing a verse Working with the Latin roots terra and pedis Identifying unfair judgments Determining character by observing actions Identifying couplets Identifying refrains Telling how a refrain affects the mood of a poem Identifying irony Identifying the theme of several verses Matching a popular saying to a proverb from Proverbs Explaining the meaning of unusual phrases Identifying foreshadowing Analyzing character in light of the story verse Noting the descriptive language used to describe setting Inferring details from the story Matching figures of speech to their meanings Describing aspects of the story setting Explaining characters’ actions 805 Determining meanings of words from context clues Inferring details from the story Analyzing characters’ actions in light of “where roads diverge†Understanding the historical background and setting Identifying four types of fallacious thinking Comparing and contrasting two characters Considering how others can stereotype you and your family Relating setting and mood Identifying the double plot of a story Identifying the theme of a story Considering the effect of one’s actions on others Matching lines of poetry to paraphrases Identifying the theme of a poem Paraphrasing lines of poetry Matching lines of poetry to anecdotes that illustrate them Identifying foreshadowing Determining character from actions Identifying how different characters would respond Identifying “victim†and “overcomer†responses Identifying how characters obeyed a Bible commandment Defining parallel Identifying three types of parallelism in Hebrew poetry Identifying the meanings of stanzas of poetry Identifying an implication of the poem Identifying the part of the plot Working with the theme of the story Identifying a character as an “overcomer†or a “victim†Identifying protagonists, antagonist, and conflicts Explaining irony in story events Drawing lessons from story events Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vmsurbat Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 I have several of the LL&C courses: Speech, British Christian Authors, World Lit I, and LL7. There *is* literary analysis taught in these LL&C courses--generally one "lit. analysis topic" per reading, sometimes two. However, what really strikes *me* about the LL series, is that the analysis is *very much geared* to using it in the student's compositions and writing exercises. Individual works are *not* heavily analyzed; one aspect (the lesson "topic" xxx) is analyzed fairly comprehensively--how did the author achieve xxxx; how can you achieve xxxx in your writing. I don't have the American/Brit. Lit courses--just the "topical" ones above. I think the Am. Lit course was their first, and it therefore has all the "learning curve" mistakes and missteps. Both the British Christian authors and World Lit courses have a lot of *very helpful* background information, suggested other readings, discussion questions and *projects grouped by category, ie., "art", "religion", "history", "hand's on", etc.*, all of which go beyond the merely reading scheduled books, answering the comprehension questions, reading the lit. lesson, and doing the required writing assignment. So, in summary, LL= learning about literary analysis primarily to appreciate the author's accomplishment and attempt it yourself. LL ~= (not equal to) deep thorough analysis of all literary aspects of each work read. (For those looking for more lit to accompany a World Geo course, the author of World Lit I has a one-year weekly schedule integrating both World Lit courses, missions reading, and BJU's World Geography text. Just wanted to pass that along). FWIW, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in CA Posted June 20, 2008 Author Share Posted June 20, 2008 thanks Christine, sounds like a no go here, I appreciate your candor - it saved me some money : ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisawa Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 I think this is such a great set... dvd and book. This has been my best friend all year. With the curriculum I use I only have lit analysis for high school level and none for Jr. high.... I have watched the dvds many a time, but the back has a Socratic list I have used to come up with assignments for my girls. (over the last 2 years) I bought the book at first because someone said it was a good starting point in case I decided it wasn't for me... $25.00 verses full price... well I loved the little book so later that year during convention I bought the dvds. Its been one of my better investments. I'm, not sure I will need it next year... but I'm hanging on to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elizabeth Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 http://www.wwnorton.com/college/titles/english/esslit/ I have not used this yet but plan to as a one year long course along with some great and "really good "books Take a peek at the table of contents this might be a great method- one course with the big concepts and individual books with discussion to flesh out the ideas from the literary analysis book. For example Symbolism/metaphor with The Scarlet Letter by Hawthorne. This will be my method because I like to have big conceptual pegs for all the tiny details to hang on otherwise it becomes a soupy mess without an overarching structure to support all the pesky details. Clear as mud?? Dd says that to me often...The Norton Critical Editions Books have all the analysis you could want even the really fun deconstructionist Derrida type stuff. Hope some of this is useful to you. I have tortured myself endlessly about using the best program etc and it is ridiculous, at some point I became irritated with the whole mess and realized that I never even thought about Freytag's pyramid or allusions etc until college. A familiarity and introduction should suffice nicely. I am in the process of cobbling together the rest of my list of "big" analytic concepts with novels and poems to illustrate the point and will hopefully be finished this month. Dh teases me endlessly about my propensity for revising the plan until it resembles the original not a bit... I call it fine tuning he calls it a gentle madness. Have a great weekend looking at all the cool norton books . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie in CA Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 I haven't seen anything that looks as good as the samples of Windows to the World (that's the one from Andrew Pudewa's site). I think it's what I've been looking for all these years! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in CA Posted June 21, 2008 Author Share Posted June 21, 2008 Do you know if they plan on having subsequent books following Windows to the World. I thought they might since it is labeled as an introduction. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in CA Posted June 21, 2008 Author Share Posted June 21, 2008 "Gentle Madness" lol - love that Ironically (or perhaps not : ) I am in the process of getting a master's in English Lit. so really shouldn't I have a handle of this ?? It seems that the subjects I love most are the ones I agonize over - with the exception of math thanks for the post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.