Thomas Jefferson education

[nmoira]

Did you know that you, too, can receive a daily or weekly dose of brilliance by subscribing to the DeMilles' website (for a fee)? :tongue_smilie:

Funny, I woke up this morning with the feeling there was a wee bit of brilliance missing from my life. Maybe it's not caffeine I need...

[PollyOR]

As a supporter I thought that this next resource would be the final missing piece I needed to make it work.

 

This was my experience too. :001_huh:

[Corraleno]

No, maybe they are not unique... but I think its the same idea as the WTM. The trivium and its methods are not unique to the Wise's... but they are explained packaged (and sold to the tune of millions of dollars) in a way that makes sense to many.

Hmmm... I don't think it is "the same idea as WTM." The idea of classical education is not unique, but what Susan provides (for a mere $26) is a clear, explicit program for implementing those ideas, complete with suggested schedules and curriculum recommendations. She also provides, at her own expense, an extremely valuable and totally free forum. :D OTOH, as several posters have mentioned, one can spend hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars on TJED books, classes, and seminars, just trying to figure out how the heck to implement the program — and still never get a solid answer. Despite the much higher costs involved, DeMille doesn't really add any value beyond the "7 Keys," which are not original or unique ideas. Oh, and Susan has a PhD from William & Mary, instead of a fake degree from a diploma mill.

 

And lest it seem that I'm just a WTM groupie bashing the "competition"... while I've read WTM and greatly respect Susan, I don't actually follow any of the recommendations in WTM. My own philosophy is actually much closer to the "7 Keys," but IMHO what DeMille has created around those (very common and not original) ideas is not an educational system but rather a very clever ponzi scheme that preys on homeschooling mothers.

 

Jackie

[Lang Syne Boardie]

 

My son is young - we are still in the lower grammar stages.... so obviously I'm not claiming to be an expert here.... just that it is working beautifully for us. And I'm loving it.

 

I'm glad for any family finding success in homeschooling, whatever the methodology or philosophy the mother pursues, but I have to confess I'm disappointed, Momma2Luke. You spoke so authoritatively about TJED that I figured you must have tested it with children older than your son's age.

[Veritaserum]

I'm glad for any family finding success in homeschooling, whatever the methodology or philosophy the mother pursues, but I have to confess I'm disappointed, Momma2Luke. You spoke so authoritatively about TJED that I figured you must have tested it with children older than your son's age.

 

I was a zealous supporter when my children were small. ;) I wholly abandoned TJEd when my oldest was 7 (thrd grade) and I realized how miserably TJEd was failing her....

 

I regret my earlier zeal and I am certain I did not impress my more experienced homeschooling peers. :tongue_smilie:

The thing I like about the WTM is that SWB's writing just oozes authenticity. She's been there, and while her methods may not work for every family, it has worked for hers. One thing I've come to appreciate is that education is incredibly pragmatic. For all the theories we have about the brain and cognition, no one really knows how it works, and all our educational theories have to face the facts of the real world.

 

When I read TJed, way back when it first came out, I didn't get this same feeling at all. It was just philosophy, and I didn't get the feeling that the author was the one doing the teaching. Is Oliver DeMille the one doing the teaching at home? How old was his oldest when the book was written? ten years old? That alone makes me skeptical.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I was a zealous supporter when my children were small. ;) I wholly abandoned TJEd when my oldest was 7 (thrd grade) and I realized how miserably TJEd was failing her....

 

I regret my earlier zeal and I am certain I did not impress my more experienced homeschooling peers. :tongue_smilie:

 

LOL! I feel the same about my early mothering zeal. I was too evangelical about my baby-rearing methods, to say the least. Funny to look back on! And glad we didn't have Facebook, because I wouldn't want a record!

 

Concerning homeschooling, it's just that almost every deliberate attempt at schooling will result in some interest, excitement, and joy in small children. They even like public school at that age! Children ages 5-8 (or so) are very, very eager to learn, and very eager to please their parents and teachers.

 

Way too early to claim success. You may or may not have ongoing success with your methods, but what you have right now is a normal, curious, and learning young child.

[Mom-ninja.]

Glad I read this thread. Now I won't waste time on the book.

[Maus]

I personally don't see anything wrong with reading the book to see if there is anything of personal value in there, or even to get where your friends are coming from.

 

I wouldn't spend money to read the book: get it from the library, or borrow it from a friend, or pick it up cheap, used. But then, I read WTM first from the library, several times, before I decided it had enough value for us to be worth supporting the author, and having on hand. I do that with all curriculum and most books, I read it first, then buy it.

 

 

I read the first tjed book at the library, and never bought it. It had a few points I liked, but not enough to go back to or support.

 

You may feel differently; it doesn't matter to me and we can still be friends. If you start preaching it, or any other method, I might start to avoid you. (the wink in the title bar is supposed to be here. Apparently, my phone doesn't agree....)

[Momma2Luke]

I'm glad for any family finding success in homeschooling, whatever the methodology or philosophy the mother pursues, but I have to confess I'm disappointed, Momma2Luke. You spoke so authoritatively about TJED that I figured you must have tested it with children older than your son's age.

 

 

LOL!:lol: Oh come now.... I merely stated that my TJED/Classical is working really well for me, and I questioned whether some of the posters truly read the books because your vision and experience with TJED differs from mine sooo greatly ( I swear we could be talking about two different things!) And I simply wanted to encourage others who are curious to go ahead and read the books themselves and form their own opinion. I'm not sure I'd call that authoritative... but I can see how some seasoned homeschoolers would feel slighted and annoyed that a seemingly newcomer to homeschooling and to these forums would have the audacity to offer a differing opinion. Thank you for the condescending pats on the head regarding my so called "zealousness". ( Rolling my eyes. )

 

I can tell that any further efforts to urge others to read TJED books for themselves will be only be met with the same rinse-wash-repeat arguments (con-artist, fake, etc, etc). That's unfortunate because I really feel that TJED can richly complement a classical education.

Edited June 12, 2012 by Momma2Luke
typo :)

[nmoira]

LOL!:lol: Oh come now.... I merely stated that my TJED/Classical is working really well for me, and I questioned whether some of the posters truly read the books because your vision and experience with TJED differs from mine sooo greatly ( I swear we could be talking about two different things!)

I guess the people who've done it and moved on just don't understand. Did you read their posts?

 

And I simply wanted to encourage others who are curious to go ahead and read the books themselves and form their own opinion. I'm not sure I'd call that authoritative... but I can see how some seasoned homeschoolers would feel slighted and annoyed that a seemingly newcomer to homeschooling and to these forums would have the audacity to offer a differing opinion. Thank you for the condescending pats on the head regarding my so called "zealousness". ( Rolling my eyes. )

Gently, "I love it! It works for us!" absent any other information isn't substantive. Frankly, if your son is early elementary (does this mean just starting or finishing first grade?) I don't see how you can have "done" TJE with him at all. Please don't confuse skepticism with irritation or hostility. Very different beasts.

 

I can tell that any further efforts to urge others to read TJED books for themselves will be only be met with the same rinse-wash-repeat arguments (con-artist, fake, etc, etc). That's unfortunate because I really feel that TJED can richly complement a classical education.

And will probably make as much impression as water off a duck's back. ;) Edited June 12, 2012 by nmoira

[thefragile7393]

I personally don't see anything wrong with reading the book to see if there is anything of personal value in there, or even to get where your friends are coming from.

I am more curious now, the way people carry on about the author and stuff makes me curious to see for myself. Likely I will treat it the same as any other method-take what applies to us and leave the rest. I don't care about people's opinions on the creator's philosophy-anyone can have good ideas and strange ideas. I don't plan to pay for them, but I can find them for free and figure out what is good for my family.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Momma2Luke, you can get offended if you want to but that's not why anyone posted questions to you or responded to your answers. We're just letting you know that TJED is not respected here for several reasons:

 

1. Many established and well-known posters here gave it the ol' college try in their homes with children older than yours and have articulately and logically analyzed and explained why the method failed.

 

2. DeMille's dishonesty concerning his credentials is well-known.

 

3. Qualified and credentialed authors have created classical homeschooling road maps, guide lines, curricula, and more, all in resources that can be obtained for free from the local library, so DeMille's ponzi scheme isn't even necessary to pursue.

 

4. the TJED method of reading about math instead of learning math is just silly. The same for science, literary analysis, or anything, really. Good classical or traditional education in the West has always included teachers, textbooks, and living books, because that's what it takes.

 

As far as most of us are concerned, TJED has been demystified and debunked.

 

So why did we ask you so many questions? Simple. Many come here to tell us how wonderful TJED is, but nobody tells us why or how their child's education is improved. We want tangibles. Is he a leader in his community? How, precisely? With what recognition? With what outcome for himself or others? Does he possess outstanding understanding of the classics? Which classics? What truth has he learned? Is he prepared for college math? How is he prepared? Is he a cogent thinker and a capable writer? May we read his essays or research papers? How did TJED lead him toward those skills? Which of those skills did he learn elsewhere?

 

You wouldn't answer, because your child is very small and none of these outcomes apply to him yet.

 

What you need to understand is that nobody can answer these questions well concerning TJED, even for students who should be old enough to give a representation of these topics having learned them in their homeschool setting. Why not? Because TJED does not concretely lead toward these outcomes.

 

I asked you, and I will keep asking anyone claiming success with TJED, because if anyone ever does buy/attend/believe enough to make this into a real pedagogy I want to know about it.

 

In the meantime, welcome to the boards! Be the one to prove us wrong. That would be great. Or join veritaserum, Polly, and the others, and walk away from TJED toward more solid ground. Whatever. You're welcome here because you are a determined and deliberate educator. We're all in a process and on a journey.

Edited June 12, 2012 by Tibbie Dunbar

[Corraleno]

I am more curious now, the way people carry on about the author and stuff makes me curious to see for myself. Likely I will treat it the same as any other method-take what applies to us and leave the rest. I don't care about people's opinions on the creator's philosophy-anyone can have good ideas and strange ideas. I don't plan to pay for them, but I can find them for free and figure out what is good for my family.

 

I think the point is that the "good ideas" in TJED aren't DeMille's ideas. He just packages them in a way that leads parents to believe that if they follow his program (and buy his books, classes, and seminars), then they will produce the next Thomas Jefferson.

 

Here are the "7 Keys" of TJED:

 

1. Classics, Not Textbooks

2. Mentors, Not Professors

3. Inspire, Not Require

4. Structure Time, Not Content

5. Simplicity, Not Complexity

6. Quality, Not Conformity

7. You, Not Them

 

Classics over textbooks is standard advice from every classical education book ever written. Mentorship is recommended by many many authors and educators, for students at every level and in every type of schooling. The "not professors" part really makes no sense, and IMO is only there to deflect criticism away from the fact that DeMille has no real academic credentials. (My most influential mentor was a professor; I'm sure that's true for many people). "Inspire, not require," is the idea behind all child-led/interest-led/unschooling, etc. philosophies. The idea of setting aside time for school work, without requiring specific content, is also common with interest-led or project-based learning. As for simplicity and quality... who doesn't believe in those??

 

I suspect that the "you, not them" key is the one that throws most people off, if the bit of dialogue quoted by a PP is representative of DeMille's approach (i.e. telling a parent that the reason her child hasn't embraced TJED and become the next Thomas Jefferson is because she herself has not read enough classics or done enough math). That seems like a built-in booby-trap that let's DeMille off the hook for the failure of so many students.

 

Jackie

[Veritaserum]

I think the point is that the "good ideas" in TJED aren't DeMille's ideas. He just packages them in a way that leads parents to believe that if they follow his program (and buy his books, classes, and seminars), then they will produce the next Thomas Jefferson.

 

Here are the "7 Keys" of TJED:

 

1. Classics, Not Textbooks

2. Mentors, Not Professors

3. Inspire, Not Require

4. Structure Time, Not Content

5. Simplicity, Not Complexity

6. Quality, Not Conformity

7. You, Not Them

 

Classics over textbooks is standard advice from every classical education book ever written. Mentorship is recommended by many many authors and educators, for students at every level and in every type of schooling. The "not professors" part really makes no sense, and IMO is only there to deflect criticism away from the fact that DeMille has no real academic credentials. (My most influential mentor was a professor; I'm sure that's true for many people). "Inspire, not require," is the idea behind all child-led/interest-led/unschooling, etc. philosophies. The idea of setting aside time for school work, without requiring specific content, is also common with interest-led or project-based learning. As for simplicity and quality... who doesn't believe in those??

I suspect that the "you, not them" key is the one that throws most people off, if the bit of dialogue quoted by a PP is representative of DeMille's approach (i.e. telling a parent that the reason her child hasn't embraced TJED and become the next Thomas Jefferson is because she herself has not read enough classics or done enough math). That seems like a built-in booby-trap that let's DeMille off the hook for the failure of so many students.

 

Jackie

 

Yep. Lots of TJEd parents end up blaming themselves for the failure of TJEd because they must not have read enough classics (or TJEd stuff) to "do it right." :thumbdown:

 

In one of the speeches I heard DeMille give he talked about how parents should not require things even of their older students. If your kid wants to read about motor cycles all day, you should let him because he can't possibly study motor cycles for 6-8 hours per day and not get into a bit of math or history or whatever. :001_rolleyes: Also, if your kid just wants to play video games all day, let him. Only he can educate himself after all. If he chooses not to educate himself, that's his fault and not yours. :001_huh: DeMille doesn't seem to believe in the concept of educational neglect committed by parents. :glare:

[LittleIzumi]

LOL!:lol: Oh come now.... I merely stated that my TJED/Classical is working really well for me, and I questioned whether some of the posters truly read the books because your vision and experience with TJED differs from mine sooo greatly ( I swear we could be talking about two different things!) And I simply wanted to encourage others who are curious to go ahead and read the books themselves and form their own opinion. I'm not sure I'd call that authoritative... but I can see how some seasoned homeschoolers would feel slighted and annoyed that a seemingly newcomer to homeschooling and to these forums would have the audacity to offer a differing opinion. Thank you for the condescending pats on the head regarding my so called "zealousness". ( Rolling my eyes. )

 

I can tell that any further efforts to urge others to read TJED books for themselves will be only be met with the same rinse-wash-repeat arguments (con-artist, fake, etc, etc). That's unfortunate because I really feel that TJED can richly complement a classical education.

 

No, I keep coming back to this thread to see if you've answered the question of what do YOU DO? You keep talking about how you mesh WTM & TJE and it works so well. I want to see what you mean--what is it that you are doing, that is working so well for you? I know it would be different in my home--I want to know what you are doing in YOUR home, as that is what you've been talking about. How do you do math on a typical day, in your TJE/WTM combo? What does writing look like in your TJE/WTM combo? I think people are just getting frustrated that you said it works great and we want to know what you mean, but all I'm seeing is more "it's great for me" and nothing else. We want to see an example of how you mesh them together like you've said you do. :lurk5:

[Corraleno]

In one of the speeches I heard DeMille give he talked about how parents should not require things even of their older students. If your kid wants to read about motor cycles all day, you should let him because he can't possibly study motor cycles for 6-8 hours per day and not get into a bit of math or history or whatever. Also, if your kid just wants to play video games all day, let him.

Hey, it worked for Thomas Jefferson — his dad let him read motorcycle magazines and play videogames all day, and he grew up to be President!

:lol:

 

Jackie

[Momma2Luke]

Momma2Luke, you can get offended if you want to but that's not why anyone posted questions to you or responded to your answers. We're just letting you know that TJED is not respected here for several reasons:

 

1. Many established and well-known posters here gave it the ol' college try in their homes with children older than yours and have articulately and logically analyzed and explained why the method failed.

 

2. DeMille's dishonesty concerning his credentials is well-known.

 

3. Qualified and credentialed authors have created classical homeschooling road maps, guide lines, curricula, and more, all in resources that can be obtained for free from the local library, so DeMille's ponzi scheme isn't even necessary to pursue.

 

4. the TJED method of reading about math instead of learning math is just silly. The same for science, literary analysis, or anything, really. Good classical or traditional education in the West has always included teachers, textbooks, and living books, because that's what it takes.

 

As far as most of us are concerned, TJED has been demystified and debunked.

 

So why did we ask you so many questions? Simple. Many come here to tell us how wonderful TJED is, but nobody tells us why or how their child's education is improved. We want tangibles. Is he a leader in his community? How, precisely? With what recognition? With what outcome for himself or others? Does he possess outstanding understanding of the classics? Which classics? What truth has he learned? Is he prepared for college math? How is he prepared? Is he a cogent thinker and a capable writer? May we read his essays or research papers? How did TJED lead him toward those skills? Which of those skills did he learn elsewhere?

 

You wouldn't answer, because your child is very small and none of these outcomes apply to him yet.

 

What you need to understand is that nobody can answer these questions well concerning TJED, even for students who should be old enough to give a representation of these topics having learned them in their homeschool setting. Why not? Because TJED does not concretely lead toward these outcomes.

 

I asked you, and I will keep asking anyone claiming success with TJED, because if anyone ever does buy/attend/believe enough to make this into a real pedagogy I want to know about it.

 

In the meantime, welcome to the boards! Be the one to prove us wrong. That would be great. Or join veritaserum, Polly, and the others, and walk away from TJED toward more solid ground. Whatever. You're welcome here because you are a determined and deliberate educator. We're all in a process and on a journey.

 

Oh gosh no, I'm not offended...I was just momentarily annoyed with feeling patronized. :001_smile:

 

I do thank you for the welcome to the boards! It is always nice to find company with fellow deliberate educators indeed.

 

I'm not out to become the poster child for TJED (or to have my son become one). I think I've been quite clear from the start that I don't "do" TJED exclusively - I apply its principles in support of a classical education. I've never understood it to be a method unto itself and I believe the DeMilles have even stated that themselves.

 

I HAVE found the TJED books and community to be incredibly inspiring in helping me to become a better student, mentor and educator, to create an inspiring environment for my son to learn in - which for me, is priceless.

 

And I will continue to urge anyone who has implemented a classical education to read TJED material, not with the idea of converting to it.. but rather, how the ideas and principles can support and enrich your existing methods and pedagogy.

[LittleIzumi]

And I will continue to urge anyone who has implemented a classical education to read TJED material, not with the idea of converting to it.. but rather, how the ideas and principles can support and enrich your existing methods and pedagogy.

 

So, how do they support and enrich YOUR methods? How did they change what you do? What do you DO in a typical day, utilizing TJE and classical principles?

[Superfly]

So, how do they support and enrich YOUR methods? How did they change what you do? What do you DO in a typical day, utilizing TJE and classical principles?

 

I gave some examples of practical application of Keys 2, 3, 4, and 7 in my post on page 2. You are welcome to read that.

[SweetandSimple]

I've always wondered about "Structure Time, Not Content" as it might apply to us non-TJEd homeschoolers.

 

Although obviously we all choose to structure some content, I have been surprised at how much more willing my son becomes when he is allowed to choose what to study, even if he's choosing among several resources that I've already picked out. I'd like to do more of this but I'm not sure how to structure it.

 

Does anyone use this idea in their homeschool?

[Veritaserum]

I've always wondered about "Structure Time, Not Content" as it might apply to us non-TJEd homeschoolers.

 

Although obviously we all choose to structure some content, I have been surprised at how much more willing my son becomes when he is allowed to choose what to study, even if he's choosing among several resources that I've already picked out. I'd like to do more of this but I'm not sure how to structure it.

 

Does anyone use this idea in their homeschool?

 

I do it with library books. They can pick any book(s) they want within certain parameters (at least one non-fiction, at least one fiction, etc.). Then they have to read for a certain amount of time each day.

[Momma2Luke]

So, how do they support and enrich YOUR methods? How did they change what you do? What do you DO in a typical day, utilizing TJE and classical principles?

 

I may come back to this question at a later date.... I'm feeling that any answer I spend time thoughtfully and reflectfully giving would not be received in the way in which it was intended.

 

But I will say that my son is in what TJED calls Core Phase... a very, very good description of what our core looks like is the Bluedorn article about 10 Things to Do with Your Child before Age 10.... that article actually incorporates quite a few TJED elements into it. However its not quite as organic as TJED and quite a bit more rigid... I find classical education style has a do-this-do-that type of feel. Some people love that though...

 

And there is no element of You, Not Them, in that article - which to me is so central to creating a home culture that is focused on learning. A culture where you are inviting your children to join and partner with you in scholary pursuits as opposed to merely teaching them. Its a seemingly subtle difference but for me is crucial and makes a huge difference. Just yesterday i was sharing a bit of my studies (currently studying medical terminology and Gullivers Travels, for 2 different purposes) with Luke and we had a WONDERFUL conversation that surprised even me. He was delighted with the little picture i painted of Gullivers Travels and a seed has been planted for him. And he actually made a connection on his own with my medical term and his recent studies on the human body...

 

You might say that discussing stuff like this is no big deal and that you already do this on occasion, whereas a TJED'er proactively seeks to implement these types of exchanges on a daily basis... its not just something that will happen if you don't take the time to study on your own and to plan what you will share...

 

That Bluedorn article also didn't capture any essence of Inspire,not Require.... and that is another small way in which TJED is so inspirational to me in trying to proactively think about how my son connects with his work on a much higher level when he is TRULY inspired and ignited.

 

I love the Yeats quote that I was just reminded of yesterday: "Education is not the filling of a bucket, but the lighting of a fire", William Butler Yeats

 

I'm a bit of a bucket filler too, but I'm also spending time figuring out how to ignite that fire...

 

Anyways, these are just a couple of tiny ways in which TJED has inspired me in our own homeschool and has enriched a classical education. I may come back to this conversation at a later point and add more thoughts.

Edited June 13, 2012 by Momma2Luke
too add the last sentence

[Momma2Luke]

I've always wondered about "Structure Time, Not Content" as it might apply to us non-TJEd homeschoolers.

 

Although obviously we all choose to structure some content, I have been surprised at how much more willing my son becomes when he is allowed to choose what to study, even if he's choosing among several resources that I've already picked out. I'd like to do more of this but I'm not sure how to structure it.

 

Does anyone use this idea in their homeschool?

 

I'm not so good with this principle...but am trying to improve....

 

What about asking your son to choose some scholary goals of his own for each semester (or however you structure your homeschool) and then scheduling in blocks of time each day or each week that he can work towards those goals on his own or in his own way with your assistance?

[Superfly]

I've always wondered about "Structure Time, Not Content" as it might apply to us non-TJEd homeschoolers.

 

Although obviously we all choose to structure some content, I have been surprised at how much more willing my son becomes when he is allowed to choose what to study, even if he's choosing among several resources that I've already picked out. I'd like to do more of this but I'm not sure how to structure it.

 

Does anyone use this idea in their homeschool?

 

My DD decides on content, and then I structure time. I have a cornucopia of resources that she has dabled in. She knows which she enjoys more. We have regular meetings where we review the content she's chosen, and then we plan what she wants to do for the next month. She has her own planner to record her choices. Sometimes she structures her own time by asking me to help her fill in her week, but usually she will just look at her goals and say what she wants to start with. This month she is spending most of her time swimming because she wants to try out for swim team. Things she chose this last spring include Spanish, Latin, Astronomy, various math and language arts resources, SOTW2(she LOVES this), logic (I made her a custom spiral notebook filled with her favorite activities), and bible study.

 

She has a file crate filled with independent seat work. In there are grammar sheets, phonics sheets, Miquon workbook, Daily Word Problems, Daily Geography, homemade logic workbook, Spanish workbooks, R&S math worksheets, and spelling. She will work from there on her own, especially if we are going to my parent's house for the day. I set up 10 large workboxes that I use to store the curriculum we will be working from that month. My YDD has a few boxes too. This makes it easy for them to see their options and choose what they want to do. They also have open access to art, manipulatives, and games. I then facilitate whatever they are doing. ODD still likes checklists so I will make her one, but I don't force her to do everything she puts on there.

 

In the past I would have flipped a lid if DD spent an entire morning working on Spanish. I would have shoved my checklist under her nose and said something like, "come on kid, we have 20 other things to do before 2pm!!!" LOL Now I see how much she truly loves learning. She loves all her subjects so much she can't decide which is the best. When I used to say it was time for school she would moan and look gloomy. The funniest part is that she is doing most of the things I want her to do anyway!

 

What it looks like schedule wise is usually 2 large blocks in the morning; generally one elective and either L.A. or math. Then the afternoon is a spattering of reading and independent work. Some mornings we will just spend on the couch reading literature, LoF, family devotions, or history and science books.

 

Now you could say that none of that is in the TJed books, and that would be true. And some of those things we may have chosen to do anyway. However the reality is that I didn't have the inspiration or ideas to structure our home school this way until AFTER I read TJed. There is a deliberateness that didn't exist before. I am more tuned in to examining and predicting my DD's behavior so I can come up with ways to empower her and inspire her.

 

I also now permit and sometimes lead rabbit trails from our literature. Before it was just read and discuss. Now I ask more questions and expand on ideas. For example, when we were reading the beginning of Swiss Family Robinson we repeatedly discussed the meaning of procurement since it kept coming up. When we got to the part about the lever, a concept my girls didn't fully understand, we stopped reading to procure parts to make a lever.

 

Another thing I allow during scheduled time is a game my girls made up called "level up." They have free reign of extra workbooks and old school textbooks. They use this to teach each other. My oldest drills the youngest on phonics and math facts. It is really quite charming. It has become their favorite game and now they involve all the neighbor kids. I even have other parents donating their kid's old school books to the game. My 8yr old is leading this group of 6-8 kids and they are all learning during summer break! She also leads them in money-making schemes, haha. The current business is making friendship bracelets. She has hired her friends to do the work for her. They may not be making any money, but at least the wheels are turning. These are endeavors I want to encourage.

[unfrumpable.]

My DD decides on content, and then I structure time. I have a cornucopia of resources that she has dabled in. She knows which she enjoys more. We have regular meetings where we review the content she's chosen, and then we plan what she wants to do for the next month. She has her own planner to record her choices. Sometimes she structures her own time by asking me to help her fill in her week, but usually she will just look at her goals and say what she wants to start with. This month she is spending most of her time swimming because she wants to try out for swim team. Things she chose this last spring include Spanish, Latin, Astronomy, various math and language arts resources, SOTW2(she LOVES this), logic (I made her a custom spiral notebook filled with her favorite activities), and bible study.

 

She has a file crate filled with independent seat work. In there are grammar sheets, phonics sheets, Miquon workbook, Daily Word Problems, Daily Geography, homemade logic workbook, Spanish workbooks, R&S math worksheets, and spelling. She will work from there on her own, especially if we are going to my parent's house for the day. I set up 10 large workboxes that I use to store the curriculum we will be working from that month. My YDD has a few boxes too. This makes it easy for them to see their options and choose what they want to do. They also have open access to art, manipulatives, and games. I then facilitate whatever they are doing. ODD still likes checklists so I will make her one, but I don't force her to do everything she puts on there.

 

In the past I would have flipped a lid if DD spent an entire morning working on Spanish. I would have shoved my checklist under her nose and said something like, "come on kid, we have 20 other things to do before 2pm!!!" LOL Now I see how much she truly loves learning. She loves all her subjects so much she can't decide which is the best. When I used to say it was time for school she would moan and look gloomy. The funniest part is that she is doing most of the things I want her to do anyway!

 

What it looks like schedule wise is usually 2 large blocks in the morning; generally one elective and either L.A. or math. Then the afternoon is a spattering of reading and independent work. Some mornings we will just spend on the couch reading literature, LoF, family devotions, or history and science books.

 

Now you could say that none of that is in the TJed books, and that would be true. And some of those things we may have chosen to do anyway. However the reality is that I didn't have the inspiration or ideas to structure our home school this way until AFTER I read TJed. There is a deliberateness that didn't exist before. I am more tuned in to examining and predicting my DD's behavior so I can come up with ways to empower her and inspire her.

 

I also now permit and sometimes lead rabbit trails from our literature. Before it was just read and discuss. Now I ask more questions and expand on ideas. For example, when we were reading the beginning of Swiss Family Robinson we repeatedly discussed the meaning of procurement since it kept coming up. When we got to the part about the lever, a concept my girls didn't fully understand, we stopped reading to procure parts to make a lever.

 

Another thing I allow during scheduled time is a game my girls made up called "level up." They have free reign of extra workbooks and old school textbooks. They use this to teach each other. My oldest drills the youngest on phonics and math facts. It is really quite charming. It has become their favorite game and now they involve all the neighbor kids. I even have other parents donating their kid's old school books to the game. My 8yr old is leading this group of 6-8 kids and they are all learning during summer break! She also leads them in money-making schemes, haha. The current business is making friendship bracelets. She has hired her friends to do the work for her. They may not be making any money, but at least the wheels are turning. These are endeavors I want to encourage.

 

Great post!

[SweetandSimple]

Thanks-- those are all great ideas! I do need to spend more time talking to him about his thoughts and goals.

 

Our main problem is that he will happily read anything that I put in front of him (no matter what it is), but he hates when I make him actually use a pencil to write anything down!

[PollyOR]

Now you could say that none of that is in the TJed books, and that would be true. And some of those things we may have chosen to do anyway. However the reality is that I didn't have the inspiration or ideas to structure our home school this way until AFTER I read TJed. There is a deliberateness that didn't exist before. I am more tuned in to examining and predicting my DD's behavior so I can come up with ways to empower her and inspire her.

 

Thanks for sharing. :)

[Momma2Luke]

 

Now you could say that none of that is in the TJed books, and that would be true. And some of those things we may have chosen to do anyway. However the reality is that I didn't have the inspiration or ideas to structure our home school this way until AFTER I read TJed. There is a deliberateness that didn't exist before. I am more tuned in to examining and predicting my DD's behavior so I can come up with ways to empower her and inspire her.

 

 

I loved your post! And this section particularly resonated with me. Thank you for sharing!

[Superfly]

Glad I could share. :)

[garddwr]

I have enjoyed the last few posts, especially Momma2Luke's thoughts on creating a culture of learning. That, I think, is the real key to successful education, and if a book or discussion or philosophy helps us better develop such a culture it will be of great value to us.

 

I have a story to share:

 

I know a family who, in spite of all their human imperfections, succeeded splendidly in establishing a family culture of learning. Mom and dad had a thirst for learning themselves and an unusual willingness to trust their own instincts rather than the advice of experts or societal norms. Mom felt that young children did not belong in school, so she kept them close by during their early years. There were no formal academics--those could wait. Instead, there were acres of cornfields to roam in, a houseful of books, blocks to build with (oh, and cuisinaire rods!), and lots of music--practicing violin or cello was mandatory. There were alphabet cards up on the wall, and math workbooks if you happened to feel like it. There were encyclopedia sets, magnifying glasses, journals to write in. There was no television. In the summer, there was a huge garden to be weeded, and cornfields needing thinning, and a vegetable stand that always needed someone in attendance (no cash register, coins were kept in a muffin tin and change was figured in your head). Mom and dad both read aloud to the kids--everything from Ramona Quimby to Pilgrim's Progress to Genesis to The Lord of the Rings to The Tempest. Actually, as the children got older reading aloud became a communal process--older children reading to younger children, family members taking turns, and especially readers' theater versions of Shakespeare's plays. Children learned to read on their own schedules--some were four, some were eight. Mom would sit down to teach a child to read, but if progress didn't happen the lessons were set aside for later. This wasn't homeschooling--that wasn't really on the agenda. It was just living and learning because that's what life is about. Most children went off to school to gain whatever could be gained there starting around age 8, but the real learning still happened at home--and away from home on many family trips. Money was tight, but seeing the world was an important part of life, so off the family would go loaded into a van with clothes in backpacks and food in a cooler and a tent and sleeping bags in the back. They criss-crossed the United States many times, even drove down through Mexico nearly to the Guatemala border on one trip. Later, when the opportunity came to live overseas, this mode of travel continued and the family van made trips up and down Europe and Latin America.

How did this family turn out? Is it any surprise that the children followed in their parents' footsteps in developing an insatiable love of learning and curiosity about the world? The lesson was well-taught at home, as were other lessons: worthwhile things are often hard, and you can do hard things (like continuing to practice when it seems you'll never get the passage right, or struggling day after day through school while you gradually pick up the local language); people matter more than things--and family are the people who matter most; above all, expect life to be challenging, rise to the challenge, and trust God when you can't see the way ahead. Those children have mostly grown up and moved ahead in life. They have flourished in a variety of universities, many have married and are busy raising the next generation (13 grandchildren, 3 on the way...) they continue to pursue both learning and life with vigor, and maintain close relationships with each other in spite of being scattered over many states and several continents. If you need some more concrete (though less significant) measure of success, academic degrees earned include 5 from Stanford, 2 from MIT, one from the University of Edinburgh, 1 from the New England Conservatory, 1 from the US Air Force Academy with another in the works, and one PhD in progress from Duke. Areas of study have included anthropology, education, music, engineering, business, statistics, medicine and mathematics.

 

I am, of course, intimately acquainted with this family and their environment because I grew up in it. Is it any wonder that I find limited use for specific plans of education complete with scope and sequence (WTM) or that I feel no need to blindly follow someone's philosophy (TJEd)? I have seen and experienced a lifestyle of learning, and it is not dependent on particular phases and application of keys nor on a formal and rigorous program of study (especially in the early years). I am content to read and study and discuss and draw from the ideas of many people and move forward in building my own home where learning thrives. I hope to build on what my own parents did and provide my children with an even richer educational experience, so I read and study and discuss and draw from those ideas of others that resonate with me. I have found such ideas in many places, and encourage others to broaden their horizons and keep their minds open for ideas that will help them build their own culture of learning.

Edited June 14, 2012 by thegardener
fix a typo

[PollyOR]

I know a family who, in spite of all their human imperfections, succeeded splendidly in establishing a family culture of learning. Mom and dad had a thirst for learning themselves and an unusual willingness to trust their own instincts rather than the advice of experts or societal norms.

 

Thank you for sharing. What an awesome family you have!

[gabbymom]

Good outlook for TJE...thanks! Now I won't bother getting the book. I always tend to wonder if there is something better out there...

[Superfly]

I have found such ideas in many places, and encourage others to broaden their horizons and keep their minds open for ideas that will help them build their own culture of learning.

 

Love!

 

No one boxed in philosophy, teaching method, training principles, etc. can be applied verbatim and produce results that are optimal for individual children. The learning environment must be customized to meet individaul needs. It shouldn't matter where the ideas come from that help create that environment as long as they are supporting the needs of the children.

[Kathryn]

Thank you for sharing. What an awesome family you have!

 

:iagree:

[Parrothead]

"Right. He reads classics and lots of things but I can’t get him to read math classics."

"What was the last math classic or textbook that you read?"

 

What is a math classic? I've never in my 8 years of homeschooling and 40+ years of life have heard of a math classic.

[Momma2Luke]

that was INCREDIBLY inspiring TheGardener!! WOW!! Your family sounds so amazing! Thanks so much for sharing....

 

And I just had a really neat a-ha moment when I realized that I've been following your blog for the past while!! LOVE your blog :)

[nmoira]

What is a math classic? I've never in my 8 years of homeschooling and 40+ years of life have heard of a math classic.

Euclid's Elements

[Parrothead]

No, maybe they are not unique... but I think its the same idea as the WTM. The trivium and its methods are not unique to the Wise's... but they are explained packaged (and sold to the tune of millions of dollars) in a way that makes sense to many.

 

Its the same way with TJED... its philosophy and related books make sense to me. They explain these concepts in a way that inspires me to become a better mentor.

This is one of the things that so throws me off. I don't want to be a mentor to dd. I want to be her mom.

[Parrothead]

Euclid's Elements

For what age?

[nmoira]

For what age?

That's a good question. And with what preparation? And to what end? I'm not dissing the Elements -- to say it's a seminal work is almost an understatement -- but we've come a long way since 300 BCE.

[garddwr]

that was INCREDIBLY inspiring TheGardener!! WOW!! Your family sounds so amazing! Thanks so much for sharing....

 

And I just had a really neat a-ha moment when I realized that I've been following your blog for the past while!! LOVE your blog :)

 

Ah thanks:blushing: It's always more fun to blog if I know someone is reading. Unfortunately I'm not as consistent as I could wish--seems keeping up on a blog has to take lower priority than actually feeding. clothing, and teaching my children:tongue_smilie:

For what age?

 

The Greek Golden Age?

 

(Sorry, just can't help myself...)