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How to choose which level of WRTR?


allymom
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Hi, I've been reading on these boards for a few weeks and haven't found the answer to this question, so thought I'd post for once. ;D My girls are both reading delayed (7 and almost 9), but are making great progress with a current program we're using. The problem is that they were not making progress with traditional phonics based programs, so I finally switched to something mostly whole words based, which is helping them to actually start reading finally. I'm considering, now that they're starting to making progress with reading, doing some intensive phonics instruction over the summer. My older dd is dyslexic and has auditory processing problems, my 7 yr. old may or may not have dylexia, she seems more "normal" to me than my older daughter, she's just not focused (ADHD is very likely) and has little desire to learn to read. So, I want to continue with our current program, also do more phonics instruction with a better phonics program than I've previously used.

 

I've seen great reviews of LOE and WRTR here, and just based on cost and track records, I'm considering WRTR. But I have no idea how to choose which level to start with. My girls would technically be 2nd and 4th this summer, and my 7 yr. old might be able to do the 2nd grade level, but I would think my older dd would be maybe at a 3rd grade level, or maybe just 2nd too (although she reads much better than my 7 y/o.) Is there a placement test?

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Hi, I've been reading on these boards for a few weeks and haven't found the answer to this question, so thought I'd post for once. ;D My girls are both reading delayed (7 and almost 9), but are making great progress with a current program we're using. The problem is that they were not making progress with traditional phonics based programs, so I finally switched to something mostly whole words based, which is helping them to actually start reading finally. I'm considering, now that they're starting to making progress with reading, doing some intensive phonics instruction over the summer. My older dd is dyslexic and has auditory processing problems, my 7 yr. old may or may not have dylexia, she seems more "normal" to me than my older daughter, she's just not focused (ADHD is very likely) and has little desire to learn to read. So, I want to continue with our current program, also do more phonics instruction with a better phonics program than I've previously used.

 

I've seen great reviews of LOE and WRTR here, and just based on cost and track records, I'm considering WRTR. But I have no idea how to choose which level to start with. My girls would technically be 2nd and 4th this summer, and my 7 yr. old might be able to do the 2nd grade level, but I would think my older dd would be maybe at a 3rd grade level, or maybe just 2nd too (although she reads much better than my 7 y/o.) Is there a placement test?

 

Most people find the TMs useless, and sell them at a big loss. I have the grade 2 manual and don't use it all. Maybe the K and grade 1 include information I need to do first, to be able to use this? All I know is that it includes precise requirements without the resources to accomplish them.

 

I do use the WRTR manual and the McCall-Crabbs books.

 

I just started at the beginning with the student I am tutoring. And I started her in book B for the McCalls-Crabbs as I couldn't afford the earlier books.

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The 4th Edition (Blue Cover) WRTR Manual has all you need to successfully teach the program. The 5th edition makes things more confusing and the TM's that are published are meant for public schools, IMO.

 

Buy the cheaper WRTR manual and then use all the money you save on great books!! :D

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Hi, I've been reading on these boards for a few weeks and haven't found the answer to this question, so thought I'd post for once. ;D My girls are both reading delayed (7 and almost 9), but are making great progress with a current program we're using. The problem is that they were not making progress with traditional phonics based programs, so I finally switched to something mostly whole words based, which is helping them to actually start reading finally. I'm considering, now that they're starting to making progress with reading, doing some intensive phonics instruction over the summer. My older dd is dyslexic and has auditory processing problems, my 7 yr. old may or may not have dylexia, she seems more "normal" to me than my older daughter, she's just not focused (ADHD is very likely) and has little desire to learn to read. So, I want to continue with our current program, also do more phonics instruction with a better phonics program than I've previously used.

 

I've seen great reviews of LOE and WRTR here, and just based on cost and track records, I'm considering WRTR. But I have no idea how to choose which level to start with. My girls would technically be 2nd and 4th this summer, and my 7 yr. old might be able to do the 2nd grade level, but I would think my older dd would be maybe at a 3rd grade level, or maybe just 2nd too (although she reads much better than my 7 y/o.) Is there a placement test?

The Spalding teacher guides are more helpful for classroom teachers than for homeschoolers. :-)

 

To teach Spalding, you really only need the manual (WRTR) and a set of phonogram cards. You'll need a spelling notebook for your older dd.

 

If you decide to do Spalding, I would NOT continue doing any other additional phonics instruction with a different method. Spalding is all you need, and it's different enough from other products that it could be problematic. And you won't need anything else. :)

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Now I feel like you are talking to me :tongue_smilie:!

 

:lol:

 

I do see your point about not using different methods with Spalding. I would really love to do integrated lessons with the Spalding method, as I have already expressed several times since last year. I would really like to do that at least with Malcolm. The part that overwhelms me is the writing lesson. I look at the scope and sequence at the back of my 5th edition and I start hyperventilating :lol:. I hope I figure it out by the time Malcolm is ready! With Adrian, I have tried to simplify for next year, using materials that are easier on me and less time consuming in order to add Spalding, at least for spelling with him.

Yabbut you can easily do just the spelling lessons, or the spelling and reading lessons, and do something else for writing. Primarily, using something else for spelling or phonics/reading while doing Spalding is a bad idea.

 

FTR, I love the fifth edition and do NOT think it makes Spalding more difficult to figure out. I have to say, though, that I miss Chapter 6 from previous editions, and have started to suggest using the 5th edition as the manual, and chapter 6 of the fourth edition instead of the teacher's guide (the manual is less expensive than a teacher guide, so it's more economical :) ).

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Pulling out edition 4, chapter 6 right now. Thanks Ellie! I don't think I noticed or read this. Edition 4 has flashcards too. My copy is just yucky. I'm thinking of cutting them out, as I don't mind destroying this book, and I don't have WRTR flashcards. I have Riggs, SWR, TRH, Climbing to Good English, but no WRTR :-)

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Is it a program that you could do with older elementary children, as a brush up on phonics, over the summer (assuming we could commit at least 2 hours a day, 4 days a week)? I don't want to continue doing reading lessons forever. I feel like we've been at this for too long already. And we're using WWE and FLL for writing and grammar and have had great success with that. So I don't really wish to do a program with grammar involved.

 

I ordered the 5th edition, hope that works for me. I will look at getting some phonogram flashcards. Can we just make our own notebook with whatever we have available in the house? Or is it a specific one we need?

 

I guess I'll continue with our current program until summer when I've had time to figure out the spalding method and we have more time for this program. Then we'll abandon or take a break from it since that would be too much. They're very different methods, but I think both have value.

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Is it a program that you could do with older elementary children, as a brush up on phonics, over the summer (assuming we could commit at least 2 hours a day, 4 days a week)? I don't want to continue doing reading lessons forever. I feel like we've been at this for too long already. And we're using WWE and FLL for writing and grammar and have had great success with that. So I don't really wish to do a program with grammar involved.

I suppose. You understand that it isn't *phonics,* per se. It teaches children to read by teaching them to spell. At any rate, if you did it 2 hours a day, 4 days a week, for three months, yes, you'd see some improvement, but not as much as if you committed to one year of Spalding. As long as you don't say that Spalding didn't work for you if you don't see as much improvement as you'd like, I give you permission to do summer school. :D

 

I ordered the 5th edition, hope that works for me. I will look at getting some phonogram flashcards. Can we just make our own notebook with whatever we have available in the house? Or is it a specific one we need?

You do need the Spalding phonogram cards. You can make your own, but they're not very expensive; I'd just buy 'em. The spelling notebook is a black-and-white composition book. I guess you could use any other notebook, but my Mr. Monk persona is already twitching, lol.

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Nope, I was not about to add anything for spelling. I do have HOP, Horizons and some ETC books that I was going to throw in with Malcolm (Adrian has already used them). I do agree though, they do not use the same approach to phonics as Spalding. For HOP, I was just going to let Malcolm read the readers for fun. The other two I could definitely skip though. I do have the grade 1 Spalding TG and it should help me add writing, at least for that level. Should I be getting the McCAll-Crabbs and McCall-Harby books though, to use with Malcolm? I didn't end up getting those when I placed my order last year.

It couldn't hurt to get the McCall-Crabbs and McCall-Harby. They're inexpensive, and using them doesn't take much time.

 

I wasn't trying to say that the fifth edition makes Spalding more difficult. I have never even seen the previous editions in order to qualify to express such an opinion :lol:.

My bad. I just threw that in there because of comments others have made, not because of what you said. :)

 

 

What I was saying is that for me, since I went to school primarily in Greece, I do not feel equipped to cover the writing portion. I have Harvey's grammar but do not feel that it would be helpful for me to use it as a guide with the writing lesson. We will be using WWE by the way but the approach is so different! If I could follow the writing lesson with Adrian effectively, which with the Spalding method it includes grammar, I would forgo a grammar program for next year and just wait till grade 4 to add in Voyages. I just don't know if I can do it. I mean personally of course ;). Not speaking about anyone else.

I'm not sure that I would do Spalding for writing or grammar. In a classroom, maybe; at home...probably not. That much face time with the dc would make all of us crazy, lol. We like more independence than that; the spelling lesson alone really pushes us to the edge. :D

 

I have tried to buy a 4th edition used. Keep in mind I don't buy used because I hate the hassles if there are issues with the seller, but was willing to make an exception in order to get my hands on an older edition. Amazon.com however wants almost $19 to ship to me in Canada and Amazon.ca only has one copy for a reasonable price but the seller is rated at 86% so I don't want to take my chances :(.

Bummer. Well, you'll do fine with the fifth edition, because it does explain the Spalding Method well, and it has wonderful charts and sample dialogues and other helps. When you get ready to start actually teaching, message me and I'll tell you what to do next. :)

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Thanks for the reminded. I need to keep a better look here for the cards.

 

I'm ALL over the place with composition right now. I have plenty of resources, but no plan.

 

I like the McCalls-Crabb. I really do. NOT the SWR, but the individual Spalding and the SPALDING answer key. I splurged on these while tutoring a nurse from Ecuador and have been so happy since. I find that adult students SERIOUSLY like being tested for reading level!

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I'm not following you all very well, guess I haven't spent enough time on these forums yet. ;)

 

Tell me, what are the differences between ed. 4 and 5 and would it be helpful to have both books?

 

I don't totally understand what the McCall books are or if I would need them.

 

So, I could and probably would continue the program into the school year if it was working well, but would it suffice to continue at the pace of only 30 min. 3-4 days a week instead of the intense pace we might do over the summer to catch the girls up?

 

And you're saying this program is more of a spelling program, but as such, will teach fluent reading by the end? Even for learning challenged children? Tell me it's nothing like Saxon. We tried Saxon, which supposedly was orton-gillingham inspired, but it was dreadfully boring and we did not see the progress that we were hoping for.

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5th edition is a total integrated language arts program, but you can use JUST the spelling and handwriting part if you want. The 4th edition is NOT a complete language arts curriculum, and focuses on Spelling and handwriting.

 

I know nothing about early Saxon. We only used it for high school.

 

But for WRTR we see IMMEDIATE progress here, so my tutoring student is very motivated to continue.

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5th edition is a total integrated language arts program, but you can use JUST the spelling and handwriting part if you want. The 4th edition is NOT a complete language arts curriculum, and focuses on Spelling and handwriting.

That isn't entirely accurate.

 

The Spalding Method has always been a complete "language arts" curriculum. Remember that Spalding is the method; WRTR is the manual. The method has not changed; the manual has been edited to include more explicit instructions for teachers.

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allymom,

You can print Spalding phonogram cards from this page or this PDF.

 

This video shows how to say each phonogram sound.

 

------

 

BTW, I didn't get why the McCall-Crabbs books are recommended to the OP. If she wants to determine where to place her students, doesn't she need the Morrison-McCall Spelling Tests instead?

Edited by nansk
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Hmm...$6.00 shipping isn't so bad. The online ordering is coming up all funky and unusable for me today, but the printable order form says $6.00. I'm not sure why I remember it as being particularly harsh. Maybe because I have been getting so much free shipping and I just wanted something cheap. I don't know :-0 Sometimes it's all in context and when the context changes, I forget to adapt.

 

Nansk, thanks for the printable links. I found the downloads at the bottom of that page. Scanning my book, would clean up the cards, but then they wouldn't be 2 sided, and I'm feeling lazy. The printable cards nansk linked at least get me started, and often that is all it takes with me.

 

I'm not sure if I just want to scan the backs of my cards and write cursive letters on the front. I want to leave that option open.

 

Since I don't know what I want to do, just hitting print on ANYTHING that I can use TODAY sounds appealing. And not having to make any decisions about my book.

 

The 4th edition books are cheap here in the USA. It just that even these little shipping costs all add up over the month. I ordered quite a few piddly literature books this month.

 

I'm talking in circles :-0

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BTW, I didn't get why the McCall-Crabbs books are recommended to the OP. If she wants to determine where to place her students, doesn't she need the Morrison-McCall Spelling Tests instead?

The Morrison-McCall Spelling tests are optional, IMHO, although they jdo document children's improvement. They are now in the Spelling Assessment Manual (as well as in the teacher guides). I tend to start all dc at the beginning of the Extended Ayres List when doing Spalding, because analyzing the A-G words at the beginning gives the children practice for the more difficult words to follow.

 

Sometimes I recommend the Spelling Assessment Manual; sometimes I don't. Mostly it's useful for the assessment, not necessarily for the on-going recordkeeping.

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The McCall-Harby and McCall-Crabbs books were mentioned by Hunter (she shared that she is using them) and by me, when I was asking Ellie if I should get them for my kiddo.

 

They are now in the Spelling Assessment Manual (as well as in the teacher guides).

 

Got it. Thanks! :)

BTW can you tell me more about the McCall-Crabbs Test Lessons in Reading? If my dd is reading above her grade level, and narrating/sequencing correctly, do we really need these comprehension tests?

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If you are speaking of the decodable readers (a couple posts above this, not McCall Crabbs) listed in WRTR---my manual says they are not required. It also says that while they may be useful for some children they should not be used for very long.

 

Also---agree with the Ellie compliments wholeheartedly. I frequently find answers to my questions by searching through posts and looking for her name.

 

Thank you.

Edited by cfn10
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Hmm...I missed this whole page.

 

mylittlebears, it is people like you that make it possible for me to hoard all these curricula :-) I do NOT sell them no matter how infatuated I am with something else. The unused ones act as REFERENCE. You cannot have them back!

 

The Ayer's list in 5 is WAY better than 4. There is an index that allows you to find the words in the list, to use it a bit like a dictionary.

 

Chapter 6 is more of a plan of action, but a bit chatty in that 80s anecdote style, that I don't particularly like. Ellie's summary is better. I got so distracted I missed the important parts.

Edited by Hunter
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Got it. Thanks! :)

 

BTW can you tell me more about the McCall-Crabbs Test Lessons in Reading? If my dd is reading above her grade level, and narrating/sequencing correctly, do we really need these comprehension tests?

 

 

 

 

Nansk, I find the McCalls indispensable for my ESL students, and like them in general, but for my dyslexic students they are unnecessary. They do teach the student to come up with the thesis and a title, and decide if the reading is narrative, expository or a blend. They teach inference. They are efficient, and I LOVE efficiency, so they work for me. The TM includes a LOT that is not in the TM for the SWR version. And I like the small paperbacks better than the awkward hardcover.

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The default is set on FedEx it seems, the higher shipping. This is probably why you did not notice the $6. It is still pretty steep for a $13.50 order but it all depends on what will work for you, I would say. If you can get by printing the ones nansk linked then go for it :). I don't have that option with the McCall-Harby and McCall-Crabbs books, but I won't be needing them for a while for Malcolm and by then, I may just add some of the readers or something to at least make it worth my shipping dollars ;). We shall see! I have lots of readers to start him off with and after a certain level I move away from readers anyway. My readers do not correspond with how the phonograms are taught in Spalding so I may get some at least, from Spalding International. We shall see!

 

I did try to see if I could get a 4th edition from Amazon in the US but the shipping was even higher for me $19 :(. I am not about to spend that kind of money on shipping for a book that is not in mint condition, at least. Know what I mean?

 

I do wish these little pieces were available elsewhere :-( I'm altering my SWR cards, for now. And I know I'm going to make my own soon. I finally picked a dictionary today for my remedial students and I want to use the dictionary markings and sample words from it for the phonograph sounds. I want to make the back and front a foldable and tapeable card with the phonogram and extra information side my side, in a 2 column table. Then I can just print out a fresh set for each student that they can keep.

 

The Merriam Webster Pocket is almost the same as the linked to Large Print Concise. I want my students to be able to look up the pronunciations of words in a tiny portable dictionary, but also have access to a larger print at home. The Large Print Concise is a nice alternative to a Kid's dictionary, for dictionary drills.

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I find the McCalls indispensable for my ESL students, and like them in general, but for my dyslexic students they are unnecessary. They do teach the student to come up with the thesis and a title, and decide if the reading is narrative, expository or a blend. They teach inference. They are efficient, and I LOVE efficiency, so they work for me. The TM includes a LOT that is not in the TM for the SWR version. And I like the small paperbacks better than the awkward hardcover.

 

Thanks for this info. They do sound helpful. Are the McCall books sold on spalding.org different from those that SWR sells?

 

I mostly want them for my little guy. I will be starting him with Spalding from the beginning. Adrian is also a very advanced reader and I am not sure I need them for him

 

Thank you.

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I believe, but cannot confirm, that the little student workbooks are the same as those combined into a single hardcover by SWR. I do not recommend the hardcover, unless you have no other alternative. This is TESTING, more than teaching, and it is supposed to be given with a strict time limit. I don't use the time limit, at least yet, with any of my remedial students, but they are aware of the need for speed. Testing procedures are notorious for flat, thin books and an uncluttered work space. Often I photocopy the tests and that is easier with a thin paperback.

 

The TM is entirely different I believe. The TM is the whole reason I purchased the set. The TM carries out much of the 5th edition reading goals, that I was impressed with, but was unsure of how to complete. The Spalding TM is where the TEACHING material is included. The workbooks themselves are just the TEST.

 

I have the 2nd grade TM and I have the K-TM in the mail. I found the 2nd grade TM useless. It tells me WHAT to do, but not HOW. It left me frustrated and defeated. The workbook TMs do the opposite. They fill in more holes created by reading the main book.

 

I really do like the Spalding full LA scope and sequence. I like to use it a little "behind" but I like the general plan. I like it a LOT. I have really adopted a slow and steady, build a strong foundation, educational philosophy for LA, and don't care if it takes through high school to finish grade 6 LA. Old fashioned Grade 6 LA and IIM, and a good work ethic is all that is needed for junior college work, and that is the social subculture that my students come from. I no longer focus on attempting upward mobility. Upward ability will happen with some of them, but that CAN begin to take place AT the junior college, and will have nothing to do with me. My 24 year old is making more in taxes than our family income was, and he lives in an area where housing is 1/4 of the price of housing here. He has owned a house, a nice one, since he was barely 23. He credits wisdom, work ethic and good natural people skills as the strengths that help him continue to steadily climb. He believes family worship time and the KJV BIble were the best prep for college and career success despite having always been an atheist :-0

Edited by Hunter
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Marie, you crack me up. We are ALWAYS on the same page. I'm scared that instead of being on the similar but different new food paths, that gluten free is AGAIN back in my path, just because... we always end out the same places and when you said thyroid, I was like...NOOOOO! NO!

 

I will definitely share my flashcards :-) I think the pronunciation is exactly the same, but will check. I looked at that book yesterday.

 

Merriam Webster Intermediate is the same as my Concise Large Print. Merriam Webster Student is NOT, which is a shame because it includes word histories. The college pronunciation is mostly the same, but more complicated.

 

I really like the EXTENSIVE dictionary skill lessons in the Amish Climbing to Good English 2 and 3, but will need to write an adaption to work best with Spalding and the dictionaries more readily available to us. I don't want my students dependent on audio resources or other people for pronunciation assistance. I come from an educationally deprived background and had no access to HEARING new words, so can write far above my ability to speak. The Amish know the importance of being able to use the pronunciation entries in a dictionary.

 

It took me a year to pick out my dictionary, but I think I finally have it. It's about to start alpha testing :-)

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E-mail me for the rest. The OP has been gracious enough to put up with our way off topic posts. I think it's time we lay this thread to rest :lol:!

LOL! You all intrigue me. I find this board far more enjoyable than most forums I've visited. But mostly I find myself doing this. :confused1: I ordered ed. 4 and 5 of the book since you couldn't agree on which was best. ;) I did not order the cards or spellers yet, figured I'd read through the books first. Thank you all for your wise words. I can't wait to get started with the Spalding method. ;)

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Good luck allymom! Welcome to the club :lol:

 

Marie the Intermediate looks good to me. I'm realizing now that I have 2 of the Webster beginner dictionaries mixed up and can't remember what they have for pronunciation charts, if any at all. The Webster New Worlds are different from the Merriam Websters. I think the Merriam Webster Beginner doesn't even have pronunciations, but it had some great other features. It was quite chatty about each word. But that isn't the one you have :-0

Edited by Hunter
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