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Too many choices---I feel like my head will explode


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We've been homeschooling for nine years (yikes--how did that happen?).

 

We've used SL K to 5 quite happily most of those years along with MUS and ABeka language arts workbooks. I love the pick-up and teach part of SL and reading out-loud to the kids has, hands-down, been the favorite part of homeschooling in our family.

 

I thought I had everything planned out to a "T" and then....

 

...my oldest finished 8th grade and I started wondering whether the upper cores of SL were sufficient or whether I would need to supplement SL6 for a 9th grader this year.

 

So, I started looking around for curriculum for the first time in many years. There is SO much out there now for high school students and most of it looks better than SL.

 

MoH, TOG, TWTM, TQ, Spielvogel, Notgrass....oh, my! Let me pop a couple of motrin and continue

 

**gulp, gulp**

 

I've got 4 years and would like to do a nice rotation through world history chronologically with a rising 2nd, 3rd, 7th, and 9th grader. Keeping them altogether on one period of history with SL doesn't seem feasible.

 

STOW is too low for the older two to use as spines, but perfect for the younger two girls.

 

MoH is too low for the 9th grader to use, but perfect for the rising 7th grader who has little WH exposure. But it is a five-volume series in which only 3 volumes are currently available.

 

Notgrass looked nice but 20% of it is a Bible lesson and it covers WH is just one year, not four. Maybe a bit light for the 9th grader, though.

 

Omnibus looks nice but it does a three-year rotation. I'm not even sure what spine it uses. It looks HARD--to teach and to use.

 

I found a 5th edition Spielvogel but that will be challenging to work through slowly for a ninth grader, but probably perfect for him by 12th grade.

 

TOG looks nice and would keep everyone together, albeit at different levels, but it (and MoH) has a lots of artsy-craftsy type stuff that I have NO interest in doing. I absolutely refused to mummify chicken bones in my homeschool--I do enough interesting mummification in my fridge as it is! :lol:

 

I've thought through this until I'm having trouble sleeping and actually broke out in a rash. I've been lurking here for several weeks and have read almost every since post made in this part of the forum.

 

Please help me think through my options!!!

 

Option #1: keep the little two in SL since I've already purchased it and would like to get a second use out of it. This would make dh happy.

 

Put 7th grader in MoH until the series ends and restart her in Ancient history when she hits 9th grade.

 

Do some kind of TWTM rotation with 9th grader (he thinks he wants to be a pastor, btw)

 

Forget about coordinating history for the family.

 

 

Option #2: move to TOG for everyone and give dh a heart-attack with the bill. This would allow us to all study together but the amount of prep-work scares me silly. I'm used to buying a SL core, opening the box, and settling down to school. The sample for TOG runs into the hundreds of pages! What's the real think like???

 

Is TOG rhetoric level really high school level? Do they read enough of the "great books"? Can I use it as-is or do I need to supplement to fill out its deficiencies?

 

 

Option #3: keep everyone in SL as planned and just supplement the upper cores. Forget about coordinating history. Re-use what I've already purchased.

 

I think that if I can settle on a history paradigm for the next four years for the older one, then I can line up the literature/science options more easily. I also think that it is imperative to have a four-year vision for high school before we get started in 9th grade so that we know where we are going and what pace we need to move to be done by graduation.

 

Am I overthinking this? Is one option leaping out as better? Have I misunderstood some part of MoH, TOG, Omnibus, TWTM, Notgrass, etc.

 

Please send your thoughts and ideas (and maybe a bowl of ice cream) to me!

 

Pam

awash in curricula magazines, samples, print-outs, and books

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We'll be using Omnibus this yr and have used TOG in the past. IMO, Omnibus is easier to use. You can just open the text, read the intro, assign reading, and ask the questions as outlined in the book (the teacher's CD will give you the answers). Veritas Press also does a lot of their reading out loud in their classroom, so you could keep that. You could also combine your 7th & 9th grader with this, perhaps going easier on the 7th grader is need be. It is heavily Christian, at least in level 1 and would be great for someone going into ministry I think.

 

TOG required more parental preparation IMO and at least in the dialectic level didn't use as much of a socratic method. That said, TOG is very academically sound for high school, probably just as much as Omnibus.

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Veritas Press also does a lot of their reading out loud in their classroom, so you could keep that. You could also combine your 7th & 9th grader with this, perhaps going easier on the 7th grader is need be. It is heavily Christian, at least in level 1 and would be great for someone going into ministry I think.

 

TOG required more parental preparation IMO and at least in the dialectic level didn't use as much of a socratic method. That said, TOG is very academically sound for high school, probably just as much as Omnibus.

 

I really DO want to keep reading out-loud to my kids! You would not believe how easily they have developed a solid vocabulary just from hearing books read to them.

 

Is TOG a lot of work to prep every week or is it something that you can do all of the prep work during the summer?

 

Thanks for the reply!

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I'm just going to give you a big AMEN sister! :iagree:

 

I am right there with you! I haven't slept in two weeks, I have piles of catalogs next to my bed and I am so confused. Last week at work, when I went to ask my boss about some bank reconcilliations, I accidentally asked him something about TOG! :ack2:

 

My post is a big DITTO to yours! I have the added bonus of an upcoming frreshman who is totally right-brained (ADD) and wants to be a RN. She needs serious composition and grammar remediation without falling behind in LIT and she also needs to continue in math while gaining some additional understanding of the concepts.

 

You are so not alone! :svengo:

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Well, I'm probably not the best person to answer since I am always changing my mind about curriculum, buuuut, I say stick with SL. You are used to it, it will give your children a solid education, it is laid out nicely and your older children (7th and 9th) could probably work fairly independently using the IGs. The little ones, as you point out, would benefit greatly from the read-alouds. You are right about the benefits of reading aloud.

 

Making dh happy is important, too.:)

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I concur with Kathleen and encourage you to consider staying the course with Sonlight. (I should note that I've used SL 7 years myself, so I am "biased" in that direction.) While staying abreast of what's available is important, it's important not to get carried away on the curriculum-comparison merry-go-round.

 

Do you visit the Sonlight forums? If not, I'd encourage you to do so before jumping ship to a different program altogether. There's a wealth of wisdom to be gained there from folks who have successfully used the upper-level Cores. I've spent a good deal of time listening to parents of high schoolers both here and on the SL board. Often, they are two very different lots so it's interesting to glean the best of both worlds. I've also explored other programs (primarily Tapestry of Grace and Omnibus) to determine if SL is my best bet for the future. It is.

 

So I'll cast a vote for Option #3 and spend a moment thinking through your reality. You said:

 

I've got 4 years and would like to do a nice rotation through world history chronologically with a rising 2nd, 3rd, 7th, and 9th grader. Keeping them altogether on one period of history with SL doesn't seem feasible.

 

Well, no, I have to agree that I wouldn't simply use one Core over such a wide range of ages. Even this year, with my oldest in 7th and my third son in 2nd, I've used two Cores. Have you used two Cores simultaneously at any time? It's not overly difficult, particularly if you're revisiting material (which you would be in the case of the lower Cores). Your 9th grader should be more than capable of working independently in large part; it's not as if you'll be hand-holding. Naturally you want to be available, engage in discussion, and even do some reading together, but it's a different ball game than teaching a little person, of course.

 

You're wondering if the upper cores are sufficient or whether you'll have to supplement Core 6 for your 9th grader. Well, Core 6 really isn't an "upper core". So yes, you'll want to add, at a minimum, a more in-depth spine. If you go this route, you're next four years might look like this:

 

2008/9 ~ Core 6 (supplemented for 9th grader, as-is for 7th grader); Core 1+2 (very little extra work on your part and more age-appropriate for the 3rd & 2nd graders)

 

2009/10 ~ Core 7 (supplemented for 10th, as-is for 8th); Core 3 (4th and 3rd) *(these two Cores are more similar than you might think)

 

2010/11 ~ Core 100 (supplemented for 11th...I'd consider combining Core 100 and Core 400 for the oldest; as-is for 9th); Core 4 (5th & 4th)

 

2011/12 ~ Core 200 or Core 300 (12th & 10th); Core 5 (6th & 5th)

 

Clear as mud?;)

 

Personally, rather than focus on a four-year chronological history cycle, I'd concentrate on actually moving your oldest into those more age-appropriate upper-level Cores now. But all of this to say, if SL has worked well for you thus far, I don't see why that needs to change now.

 

Hope this helps a bit!:)

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Omnibus looks nice but it does a three-year rotation. I'm not even sure what spine it uses. It looks HARD--to teach and to use.

It uses Spielvogel as a spine. It's not hard to teach (answers provided), but some students would find it hard to use.

 

TOG looks nice and would keep everyone together, albeit at different levels, but it (and MoH) has a lots of artsy-craftsy type stuff that I have NO interest in doing. I absolutely refused to mummify chicken bones in my homeschool--I do enough interesting mummification in my fridge as it is! :lol:

No need to do the hands-on, your week will be full enough without it.

 

Option #2: move to TOG for everyone and give dh a heart-attack with the bill. This would allow us to all study together but the amount of prep-work scares me silly. I'm used to buying a SL core, opening the box, and settling down to school. The sample for TOG runs into the hundreds of pages! What's the real think like???

 

Is TOG rhetoric level really high school level? Do they read enough of the "great books"? Can I use it as-is or do I need to supplement to fill out its deficiencies?

Right, TOG is not an open the box and use curriculum like Sonlight. There is no daily schedule, just weekly. It's big, but remember each week is for 4 levels and covers many subjects.

 

Are you doubting it's rhetoric level because you think it's not rigorous enough? That is not the case, far from it. If you check the scope and sequence for the Redesigned year plans you are easily see what's covered in high school.

 

Scope and Sequence Year 1

Scope and Sequence Year 2

Scope and Sequence Year 3

 

Is TOG a lot of work to prep every week or is it something that you can do all of the prep work during the summer?

 

I do most of my planning ahead of time. I make workbooks for my children and that helps too.

 

Karen

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We'll be using Omnibus this yr and have used TOG in the past. IMO, Omnibus is easier to use. You can just open the text, read the intro, assign reading, and ask the questions as outlined in the book (the teacher's CD will give you the answers). Veritas Press also does a lot of their reading out loud in their classroom, so you could keep that. You could also combine your 7th & 9th grader with this, perhaps going easier on the 7th grader is need be. It is heavily Christian, at least in level 1 and would be great for someone going into ministry I think.

 

Is Omnibus using Spielvogel for a spine??

 

BTW, I woke up this morning saying OUT-LOUD "I'll just go with Omnibus". My poor dh thinks I'm crazy. And he thinks I'm driving him crazy. Eventually, he'll tell me to order whatever I want and leave him in peace. That's my plan, at least!:thumbup:

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I'm just going to give you a big AMEN sister! :iagree:

 

I am right there with you! I haven't slept in two weeks, I have piles of catalogs next to my bed and I am so confused. Last week at work, when I went to ask my boss about some bank reconciliations, I accidentally asked him something about TOG! :ack2:

 

I'm not unaware that I've got a bad case of "the curriculum is always greener on the other website", BUT, I am very concerned that SL, as is, won't be enough, and, if I have to supplement anyway, I might as well look at all my options.

 

As I was praying this morning, I felt God nudging me to write up a list of family/homeschooling goals BEFORE I make any curriculum decisions. I have to visit my 4 kids, all at boy scout camp this week (yes, I am home ALONE for seven whole days---Glory be!) and so this is a good time to step back and rethink my priorities and goals prayerfully.

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Thank you so much for taking the time to write out such complete thoughts about how I could continue using SL. I had almost given up on SL completely but now, I think I should put it back onto the table.

 

Thank you!!!!!:Angel_anim:

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I've done this curriculum dance also! This is our 11th year of homeschooling and I have used SL for nine of them. When we first started high school I also started looking at the many, many wonderful choices. After driving myself and my family crazy with curriculum information overload, I asked my high school students what they thought. Their choice -- stay with SL! My youngest is now in 11th grade and I can say in hindsight that it was the best choice for our family.

 

So... have you asked your children what they would like to do?

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Sorry, people, there was spam here and now it is gone! I assume our wonderful webmaster came and blasted it. I'll try to edit my post but I don't think I'll be able to change the title. Is there a better way to deal with spam in this new format?

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what I thought was Spam on the board, and I hit the flag button on the upper right-hand corner of the post. I think it's a triangle-shaped thing (I can't see it now since I'm posting!!!). I don't think we on the boards can see if a post is flagged this way, but the moderators can.

 

I think that the administrators can see that flag on a particular post and take care of it. But, you didn't do anything wrong! Apparently they took care of the Spam right away, so that made your post look like it was "out of place". However, there is the "Spam" symbol on the list of Smilies, so----I guess what else would one use it for???

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As I was praying this morning, I felt God nudging me to write up a list of family/homeschooling goals BEFORE I make any curriculum decisions. I have to visit my 4 kids, all at boy scout camp this week (yes, I am home ALONE for seven whole days---Glory be!) and so this is a good time to step back and rethink my priorities and goals prayerfully.

 

It's funny that you mentioned that because God was giving me more than a "nudge" in that direction! I was getting so wrapped up in my goals for my daughter that I was beginning to lose site of HIS.

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I make workbooks for my children and that helps too.

Karen, your workbooks look incredible!! Do the pages stay in well? I'm wondering how much "abuse" the spiral bound pages can take. My two boys are rough on books.

 

Also, which yearplan are you using? I'm going to be doing Y3 this year. I've been with the Redesign since they started. While I LOVE the Redesigned format, it can be difficult to only receive one unit at a time. I'm finding myself longing a little to be able to plan out things for more than a unit at a time (I would think something like this would be one of those things.)

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I concur with Kathleen and encourage you to consider staying the course with Sonlight. (I should note that I've used SL 7 years myself, so I am "biased" in that direction.) While staying abreast of what's available is important, it's important not to get carried away on the curriculum-comparison merry-go-round.

 

 

Colleen, may I jump in here to ask you a question about your years using SL?

 

I also have a dd beginning high school in September and have already purchased SL's Core 100 for her; for 7th grader also. (Still glancing over at that merry-go-round, though!)

 

Did you use SL's language arts as well? Were the literature studies thorough enough? I recently purchased a Total Language Plus guide for one of the SL books, and it looks excellent.... Now I find I'm toying with dropping SL's language arts section for that.

 

Why am I so all over the place? :confused:

 

I'm also praying and seeking the Lord for His guidance in all this. I appreciate the input on this thread and will be watching it carefully.

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Hi Pam, Omnibus does use Spielvogel as a spine, although only snippets, not complete chapters. I think you'll get a lot out of the history included in the recommended reading: Hammurabi's code, Bible, Herodotus & Plutarch's Lives for instance.

 

Best of luck to you in your decision. I agree with others that SL could do just as well.

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I also have a dd beginning high school in September and have already purchased SL's Core 100 for her; for 7th grader also...Did you use SL's language arts as well? Were the literature studies thorough enough? I recently purchased a Total Language Plus guide for one of the SL books' date=' and it looks excellent....Now I find I'm toying with dropping SL's language arts section for that.[/quote']

 

Hi there! As you can see from my signature line, my oldest is son is just 13, so I've not yet used the high school years myself. I've not used the LA portion of SL for the Cores we've covered thus far (Core K-Core 6). This upcoming school year, my oldest will move on to Core 7, which of course has the LA incorporated with the actual core. For Core 7, at least, I plan to use the LA "as is", but I may very well supplement Cores 100-400 a bit. I'm familiar with Total Language Plus; I've considered adding something like that or Lightning Lit to the upper level Cores' LA. I wouldn't drop the LA portion of the Cores altogether, though.

 

I've asked on the SL high school board whether others feel the literature studies in the upper level cores is sufficient; as expected, the answers are a mixed bag. (It'd be too easy if everyone agreed!;)) Do you read the SL boards? I find the advice there from the parents of high schoolers quite helpful.

 

I see that LaurieM, who posted below, has some experience with SL's high school cores. I'm going to post and refer her to your question.:)

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This is our 11th year of homeschooling and I have used SL for nine of them. When we first started high school I also started looking at the many, many wonderful choices. After driving myself and my family crazy with curriculum information overload, I asked my high school students what they thought. Their choice -- stay with SL! My youngest is now in 11th grade and I can say in hindsight that it was the best choice for our family.

 

Just above, King's Kids posed a question to me regarding the literature studies in the upper cores. Since I don't yet have firsthand experience with those levels, I thought perhaps you migh chime in. She asked:

 

I also have a dd beginning high school in September and have already purchased SL's Core 100 for her; for 7th grader also...Did you use SL's language arts as well? Were the literature studies thorough enough? I recently purchased a Total Language Plus guide for one of the SL books, and it looks excellent....Now I find I'm toying with dropping SL's language arts section for that.

 

What's your thought, Laurie? Have you felt the need to supplement the upper level cores? Thanks for your input!

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I've done this curriculum dance also! This is our 11th year of homeschooling and I have used SL for nine of them. When we first started high school I also started looking at the many, many wonderful choices. After driving myself and my family crazy with curriculum information overload, I asked my high school students what they thought. Their choice -- stay with SL! My youngest is now in 11th grade and I can say in hindsight that it was the best choice for our family.

 

So... have you asked your children what they would like to do?

 

I listed some options for my son, who's going into 9th grade. He was definitely most excited about doing a survey of world history (of any length: 1 year/2years with SL, 3 years with Omnibus, or 4 years with MoH/TOG). He emphatically wanted something that clearly integrated Bible/God/Christian Worldview into the history program. He was "sick of history treating the Bible like it didn't exist".

 

He wasn't strongly for or against staying with Sonlight and understood that getting a 4-year plan for high school was a good idea.

 

Now, if he could just tell me how willing he would be to switch to Rhetoric level work this year, everything would be hunky-dory!:lol:

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Karen, your workbooks look incredible!! Do the pages stay in well? I'm wondering how much "abuse" the spiral bound pages can take. My two boys are rough on books.

 

Also, which yearplan are you using? I'm going to be doing Y3 this year. I've been with the Redesign since they started. While I LOVE the Redesigned format, it can be difficult to only receive one unit at a time. I'm finding myself longing a little to be able to plan out things for more than a unit at a time (I would think something like this would be one of those things.)

 

Thanks. :001_smile: I have 3 boys and they are pretty rough with their books too, but they stay together well. We are also moving on to Year 3 Redesign. Hopefully we'll have unit 1 in the next week or two.

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Just above, King's Kids posed a question to me regarding the literature studies in the upper cores. Since I don't yet have firsthand experience with those levels, I thought perhaps you migh chime in. She asked:

 

 

 

What's your thought, Laurie? Have you felt the need to supplement the upper level cores? Thanks for your input!

 

 

SL's LA has been adequate for my family. I have done some tweaking depending on my students needs at the time. But I feel I would do that with any LA curriculum.

 

Since the LA is included in the upper level Cores, I would suggest allowing a little extra time to look over the LA material. Then you can evaluate whether or not it will meet your family's LA needs.

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SL's LA has been adequate for my family. I have done some tweaking depending on my students needs at the time. But I feel I would do that with any LA curriculum. Since the LA is included in the upper level Cores, I would suggest allowing a little extra time to look over the LA material. Then you can evaluate whether or not it will meet your family's LA needs.

 

Good to know! Thanks for your reply, Laurie.

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I really DO want to keep reading out-loud to my kids! You would not believe how easily they have developed a solid vocabulary just from hearing books read to them.

 

TOG has begun to schedule read-alouds, although I was doing RA's with my kids with TOG before that. I would just choose one of the lit selections and instead of having the kids do it independently, I'd RA. And because TOG gives you a page of alternate resources, you *could* choose one of those for a RA. Many options there.

 

Is TOG a lot of work to prep every week or is it something that you can do all of the prep work during the summer?

I've done my prep work two different ways. I started out by doing the prep work on a weekly basis for the following week. On Fridays, while all the books were out and about anyway, I'd gather them up and determine my schedule for the following week. I created a spreadsheet document so that I could put each dc's assignments for the week (for every subject) on a single page. It would take me about 60-90 minutes to do that for the following week (2 levels and every subject).

 

Over the past year, I've moved to planning out an entire unit at one time. I do the same thing as above, but with ALL the books for the entire unit. That takes me about 4-5 hours per level. It also includes subjects that are not TOG, like math, science. I like doing it this way because I become less of a stumbling block in getting assignments out in a timely manner.

 

I just learned of Karen's workbooks and I'm VERY anxious to implement this as well. I think it will be of great benefit to my kids and will really give us something to look at when the unit is done. It could function as a "portfolio" of sorts. We are not required to keep those, but I figure it couldn't hurt and would be a very useful tool for my older dc who are required by our umbrella school to have at least 1 test/month/academic subject. These notebooks could be a great study resource!!

 

I'd love to be able to do ALL my prep work over the summer, but because we are on the cycle that depends on TOG's production schedule for the Redesigned version, we are limited to planning by the unit. However, I have dreams of 2 summers from now, when I am preparing for our second rotation of Year 1 (which I will already have with many of the resource books), being able to really spend a great deal of time preparing so we can "hit the ground running" when we begin school that year!! :lol:

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Good to know! Thanks for your reply, Laurie.

 

Colleen,

 

I don't post often so bear with me as I'm feeling a little out of my element!

 

One thing that I have really appreciated with SL's LA is that the some of the assignments may seem simple, informal even at times, but they really get the kids thinking. For my students it's these simple, informal assignments thrown in-between the essays and research reports that really make a difference.

 

In the past we have had assignments asking simple questions such as: Why did the author started the story at this particular point? Would it have mattered if he/she chose another time or event to start the story with?

 

Even though we did the above type of assignment long ago, just yesterday my ds came to me to discuss the current book he is reading and why he figures the author chose particular people and events for the starting point of the book.

 

Not sure if this is the best example for what I'm trying to say, but when my son brought this up yesterday I thought of this post. I guess my point is, the assignments are interesting to my students so they internalize the methods to use later on their own. This type of thinking/evaluating just becomes a natural process. To me that's a bonus!

 

I'll stop rambling now and go back to my lurkdom!

 

Laurie

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Hi there! As you can see from my signature line, my oldest is son is just 13, so I've not yet used the high school years myself. I've not used the LA portion of SL for the Cores we've covered thus far (Core K-Core 6). This upcoming school year, my oldest will move on to Core 7, which of course has the LA incorporated with the actual core. For Core 7, at least, I plan to use the LA "as is", but I may very well supplement Cores 100-400 a bit. I'm familiar with Total Language Plus; I've considered adding something like that or Lightning Lit to the upper level Cores' LA. I wouldn't drop the LA portion of the Cores altogether, though.

 

I've asked on the SL high school board whether others feel the literature studies in the upper level cores is sufficient; as expected, the answers are a mixed bag. (It'd be too easy if everyone agreed!;)) Do you read the SL boards? I find the advice there from the parents of high schoolers quite helpful.

 

I see that LaurieM, who posted below, has some experience with SL's high school cores. I'm going to post and refer her to your question.:)

 

LOL! I know what you mean about getting a mixed bag on the SL forums. Yes, I visit the SL forums frequently and find there a wealth of information. I'll be hanging out more and more on the high school boards and hope to glean some wisdom and direction over the next month. Meanwhile, I'm carefully going through the SL language arts section, but finding blocks of time to do so has been challenging... :001_smile:

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SL's LA has been adequate for my family. I have done some tweaking depending on my students needs at the time. But I feel I would do that with any LA curriculum.

 

Since the LA is included in the upper level Cores, I would suggest allowing a little extra time to look over the LA material. Then you can evaluate whether or not it will meet your family's LA needs.

 

I appreciate your input and plan to comb over SL's language arts over the next several weeks.

 

I also plan to visit this board more often to glean what sage wisdom I can find. :D Don't know what I'd do without these homeschooling forums!

 

Seems like a lot of hs-ers put their dc in school once they hit high school. Not an option here though. :lol: (Been wanting to use that smilie and finally got to!)

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