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Dear Eighth Grader: So You Want to Apply to Harvard? Some Words of Advice...


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Doesn't Harvard receive Federal funding?

 

They are so confident about their ability to discriminate based on religion (his questions about God, morality and the origins of the universe are inherently religious) that they are willing to publish it?

 

I disagree. He does not say the students should or should not believe in God, morality and origins of the universe. He says that should be able to address (in their own thoughts, not parroting someone else) why they believe what they believe. I taught for several years with a very mixed group of homeschoolers. I told the high school kids up front that I would respect any political, social, religious opinions that were sincerely theirs.

 

I enjoyed the article and I don't think we hear his main point often enough. Believe in something, feel strongly about something, be dedicated to something. Don't just follow crowd.

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his questions about God, morality and the origins of the universe are inherently religious

 

No, I do not find this at all.

I think that a teenager who is on the verge of entering college should have thought about these questions and should have decided for himself what his morals are, whether he wants to believe in a God or not, and if so, why. He should have an idea of what he thinks about the origin of the universe. he should be able to explain the foundations of his reasonings and beliefs.

The questions must be wrestled with by any thinking adult.

 

I read nothing about the author expecting religious apologetics. The way I understood it was that he wants to see that the student has been thinking about these questions and has reasons for his particular world view - but NOT that he must subscribe to a certain one.

And honestly: a 17 year old who has not given any thought to these questions- morals, origin of universe and mankind, religion - at his age does not strike me as a deep thinker who should be admitted to a highly selective institution of learning.

Edited by regentrude
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Any young adult at 18 who is well read has pondered about religion, meaning of life or other philosophical questions. I loved the article, because I think in a nutshell all he is asking for is an interesting conversation only well educated (well read) kids could deliver. I have seen "typical" 18 year olds (unfortunately one is an extended family member) and I agree that spotting a "special" child isn't hard.

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I disagree. He does not say the students should or should not believe in God, morality and origins of the universe. He says that should be able to address (in their own thoughts, not parroting someone else) why they believe what they believe. I taught for several years with a very mixed group of homeschoolers. I told the high school kids up front that I would respect any political, social, religious opinions that were sincerely theirs.

 

I enjoyed the article and I don't think we hear his main point often enough. Believe in something, feel strongly about something, be dedicated to something. Don't just follow crowd.

 

I agree. I wondered if he brought up religion as it is often a topic about which people feel passionate.

 

I really liked what he had to say about that kind of passion enriching your life no matter where you go to university. Checking the accomplishments checklist so that you can look good on paper isn't nearly as satisfying as finding and following your passion. I wish I'd really understood that when I was preparing for college.

 

Cat

Edited by myfunnybunch
missing a word
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Good points Cat.

 

I agree. I wondered if he brought up religion it is often a topic about which people feel passionate.

 

I really liked what he had to say about that kind of passion enriching your life no matter where you go to university. Checking the accomplishments checklist so that you can look good on paper isn't nearly as satisfying as finding and following your passion.

 

I have really tried to express this to the teenagers I work with.

 

 

I wish I'd really understood that when I was preparing for college.

 

Me too. In fact there were a lot of areas I had not really questioned' date=' until it was time to explain my positions to my girls. Another plus for homeschooling. :lol: [/color']

 

Cat

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Great article! Thanks for the tip. I'm filing a copy away for future reference-for me and the kids that is.

 

Doesn't Harvard receive Federal funding?

 

They are so confident about their ability to discriminate based on religion (his questions about God, morality and the origins of the universe are inherently religious) that they are willing to publish it?

 

His article doesn't show discrimination. It suggests that teens who wish to discuss their faith should show due consideration and reflection on the topic. Not just blanket acceptance of a set of beliefs but a faith built on well thought out arguments and personal conviction. I don't think he, as an interviewer, cares which faith the student professes but more about the applicant's ability to express themselves intellectually on the topic.

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No, I do not find this at all.

I think that a teenager who is on the verge of entering college should have thought about these questions and should have decided for himself what his morals are, whether he wants to believe in a God or not, and if so, why. He should have an idea of what he thinks about the origin of the universe. he should be able to explain the foundations of his reasonings and beliefs.

The questions must be wrestled with by any thinking adult.

 

 

At 18, all I knew was that I didn't know. I was not so presumptive to think I did, or that I even had a clue on the depths of these questions. Perhaps this is a familial trait, but I consider it very "uppity" for young adults to have an answer for these things. To me the **decent and respectful thing** to say would be that I was only 18 and I knew I knew little, and was looking forward to years of experience and education needed to be cogent about this.

 

I consider myself a thinking adult. Do people go around deciding they "want" to believe in a god? And if you want to, but "can't" what on earth would they do. I can think of about 100 things I consider more important in the next 60 seconds.

 

And knowing what the various theories on the origin of the universe is different than having an opinion on them. I would feel I needed to have much more of an astrophysics background before I could comment.

 

As for simply parroting others, sometimes something has been said better than I could dream of. E.g. I rely on Russell's words when pressed by a table-pounder for an opinion:

 

"The scepticism that I advocate amounts only to this: (1) that when the experts are agreed, the opposite opinion cannot be held to be certain; (2) that when they are not agreed, no opinion can be regarded as certain by a non-expert; and (3) that when they all hold that no sufficient grounds for a positive opinion exist, the ordinary man would do well to suspend his judgment."

 

However, this kind of question is perhaps why I've had so little to do with "big name" schools, institutions, etc. When I was "forced" to apply to at least 1 Ivy League school before Columbia would release my letter of recommendation, I wanted to say, "After my experience here, why would I want to ever go to an Ivy school?", but I was politic, and didn't. I just canceled my application check to whatever school I picked the second my letter went out. A hundred bucks meant a whole lot to me back then, and this "rule" was typical of what I loathed about Columbia.

 

p.s I don't think the majority of 18 year olds should vote either, but I understand why they lowered the age during an unpopular draft.

p.s.s. I didn't come to these opinions when I was over 30. I firmly felt, at 18, it was rude to act as if I was intellectually mature. I even had a little mantra about it: I had til thirty to become well-grounded intellectually, or else I would deem myself a failure. I was going off an old truism: if you are not beautiful by 20, wise by 30, or rich by 40, you never will be. :)

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I thought it was an interesting article. It sure makes you think. I like the stuff about students who have a passion.

 

Harvard has the largest endowments of US colleges. I doubt they get federal funds. Probably receive less federal funds than many religious colleges who students receive federal aid. Is one concerned about what all those colleges are asking students in their admissions process?

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At 18, all I knew was that I didn't know. I was not so presumptive to think I did, or that I even had a clue on the depths of these questions. Perhaps this is a familial trait, but I consider it very "uppity" for young adults to have an answer for these things.

 

 

Nobody would expect an 18 year old to have a final answer to these questions. All the author was asking was that they have given these things some thought and that they could articulate their opinion. Given that teenagers have opinions about everything, they should have formed an opinion about their world view and be able to explain it.

 

I consider myself a thinking adult. Do people go around deciding they "want" to believe in a god? And if you want to, but "can't" what on earth would they do. I can think of about 100 things I consider more important in the next 60 seconds.

 

 

I actually consider the question of whether to believe in God or not to be a very important one, because my answer to the question influences all areas of my life.

And yes, there are people who desperately want to believe and can not, and that causes much soul searching and suffering.

 

And knowing what the various theories on the origin of the universe is different than having an opinion on them. I would feel I needed to have much more of an astrophysics background before I could comment.

 

I do not think the author was looking to see how much astrophysics the student knows - but whether they had given it some thought.

It has been my experience that, yes, adults have more life experience and more collected knowledge, but also ask far fewer questions than young people. I do not see the all these "wise" 30 year olds; I see complacent 30 year olds who have lost their natural curiosity and sense of wonder.

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At 18, all I knew was that I didn't know. I was not so presumptive to think I did, or that I even had a clue on the depths of these questions. Perhaps this is a familial trait, but I consider it very "uppity" for young adults to have an answer for these things. To me the **decent and respectful thing** to say would be that I was only 18 and I knew I knew little, and was looking forward to years of experience and education needed to be cogent about this.

 

The way I read the article, I believe the writer would consider this a humble and thoughtful answer that showed that you'd given the matter some consideration and come to your own conclusions. :)

 

Cat

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Nobody would expect an 18 year old to have a final answer to these questions. All the author was asking was that they have given these things some thought and that they could articulate their opinion. Given that teenagers have opinions about everything, they should have formed an opinion about their world view and be able to explain it.

 

I actually consider the question of whether to believe in God or not to be a very important one, because my answer to the question influences all areas of my life.

 

 

And I think these spouting teens are rude and that it is WISE to withhold judgment until more able. At 18, I still had my reporter's notebook out and my trap shut. Therefore, I think the question infradig.

 

I'm more curious about how many cans of tomato soup are sold, per year, in Spain than I am whether there is a deity or not. Somehow "it is unproveable therefore I have no opinion" doesn't seem *long* enough. I think the question would put me at an unfair advantage. Are people who are areligious less valuable? Less intelligent? Less worthwhile?

 

As I said, I didn't get the "children should pipedown and listen" opinion when I was all grown up. I felt that way at that age. However, I could have very well NOT been the kind of student they were looking for. Perhaps they wish to weed out all but the grossly self-confident who'll make a pack of money and give them some. ;)

 

One year and two summers at Columbia doing post-bac would make me BEG my child to reconsider such a school. When I was TA there, I had to deal with 3 weeping undergrads who were only there because mommy made them. Two wanted to die, and I had to walk them over to student health. I never saw so much cheating, dumping of work on assigned lab-mates, and general awfulness. So am I not surprised I find the question wrong in an awful way for an 18 year old. :D

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And I think these spouting teens are rude and that it is WISE to withhold judgment until more able. At 18, I still had my reporter's notebook out and my trap shut. Therefore, I think the question infradig.

 

I'm more curious about how many cans of tomato soup are sold, per year, in Spain than I am whether there is a deity or not. Somehow "it is unproveable therefore I have no opinion" doesn't seem *long* enough. I think the question would put me at an unfair advantage. Are people who are areligious less valuable? Less intelligent? Less worthwhile?

 

As I said, I didn't get the "children should pipedown and listen" opinion when I was all grown up. I felt that way at that age. However, I could have very well NOT been the kind of student they were looking for. Perhaps they wish to weed out all but the grossly self-confident who'll make a pack of money and give them some. ;)

 

One year and two summers at Columbia doing post-bac would make me BEG my child to reconsider such a school. When I was TA there, I had to deal with 3 weeping undergrads who were only there because mommy made them. Two wanted to die, and I had to walk them over to student health. I never saw so much cheating, dumping of work on assigned lab-mates, and general awfulness. So am I not surprised I find the question wrong in an awful way for an 18 year old. :D

 

I don't think many kids are too worried about their classmates when they apply to these types of colleges. I would think it's more about graduating rather than dysfunctional people.

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