American citizens living abroad: question about college

[cathmom]

If you are living abroad and are not military (because I think that military people still have a home state), when your dc who are living abroad with you apply to college, can they not get in-state residency anywhere? Can they attend universities in the country you are living in even though not a citizen?

 

Thanks in advance!

[Jean in Newcastle]

Not living abroad now but was growing up. My parents had a home in the US which allowed them to establish residency in a certain state. My sisters were able to get in-state residency rates at the university there. I went to a private university in a different state so residency did not apply to me. I had friends who applied and went to private universities in Japan where I grew up. Citizenship did not matter. Passing the entrance exams did.

[mumto2]

For the Uk and possibly the EU I think you can attend university there if you are a permanent resident with all the proper paper work.

[cathmom]

Thanks - neither of those situations would apply in our case. I would be in Canada on a student visa and we would not own any property in any state. I guess I'll have to call the university in Canada and ask them my questions, and see if they know.

[TheReader]

Where we live, if my sons were able to pass the entrance exam for college/university, they could attend here. However that assumes a level of language fluency which I don't think they'll quite have; in your case since it would be English language and assuming) English native speakers, shouldn't be an issue but you would need to check the requirements with the college there to see if your college children could attend.

 

As for in-state residency, depends on how long you are gone from your state before you return. The best place to check for that would be the website of whatever US colleges you're looking at as each college sort of has its own rules.

 

One thing to consider is the use of on-line school programs for high school. We're in the position of having to do that right now. We are lifelong Texans but have been out of the US for 4.5 yrs now and could be out of the US right up until our oldest goes to college (another 4.5 yrs). If we remain here for that long, he won't have in-state resident status according to Texas colleges.

 

However, if he uses a Texas on-line high school and graduates from that program, he has then graduated from a Texas high school which grants resident status automatically no matter where he lived at the time (I am 99% sure on this, at least). It is the only for sure work-around we've found.

 

there is a temporary absence clause, if the parents were out of the state temporarily with the full intent to return to the same state, then even if the return is not 12 months before the start of college, the student can get an exemption. However, most colleges we've looked at have a 5 year limit on "temporary" so for us it doesn't apply. If your time in Canada will be less than 5 yrs, that might apply for you.

 

Things like home ownership, paying property taxes, even voting records do not guarantee in state tuition anymore; we've looked into all of those options and the schools we've checked, it's not enough.

 

Best of luck; it's a tough situation, being out of the country and trying to prepare a student for college.

[Laura Corin]

Can they attend universities in the country you are living in even though not a citizen?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

There will be residency and visa requirements, however.

 

For example, if you are an American living in the UK, if you have been here legally for three years, and did not come specifically to study, then you pay local fees here. If it's a shorter period, then you have to pay higher overseas-student fees.

 

You would also have to look into visas, to see if you could continue to live in the UK under your parents' visa, or whether you would need a separate student visa.

 

Laura

[JennifersLost]

My experience in Canada was that we could not attend any schools until we had permanent residency.

 

On the other hand, they began paying us a monthly payment for having kids before we got permanent residency. I thought that was so strange!

 

We were not able to get in-state residency for any state schools in the US. On top of that, we were charged the international fee, which resulted in my oldest not going to college this fall. (We didn't realize the "full" scholarships they give only covered the in-state tuition, not the international tuition part).

 

It's good to really research these things early!!!!

[Ohdanigirl]

I am in Mexico, and my dc could attend college here if they pass the exit exams for grad school, middle school, and high school. They would also need to pass the entrance exam for which ever school they wanted to attend. I have also heard that there is US based financial aide/scholarships available. I am not sure if that is true, but it's what a college official told me.

 

I do not want my dc to attend college here, though. We maintain residency in California, and may even move back in the net two years That is, if we do not move to another part of the US for work, or relocate to another country.

 

Danielle

[DawnM]

If you (parents) are US Citizens, you have a state of residence. My parents did not own a home in the US when I went to college, but they had a state of residence.

 

Dawn

[TheReader]

I am in Mexico, and my dc could attend college here if they pass the exit exams for grad school, middle school, and high school. They would also need to pass the entrance exam for which ever school they wanted to attend. I have also heard that there is US based financial aide/scholarships available. I am not sure if that is true, but it's what a college official told me.

 

I do not want my dc to attend college here, though. We maintain residency in California, and may even move back in the net two years That is, if we do not move to another part of the US for work, or relocate to another country.

 

Danielle

 

If you (parents) are US Citizens, you have a state of residence. My parents did not own a home in the US when I went to college, but they had a state of residence.

 

Dawn

 

You want to really carefully check this, though. It varies greatly from university to university.

 

We vote in the US elections (national), pay US income taxes, maintain our TX driver's license, etc. NONE OF THIS will grant our son(s) In State Tuition if we do not return a full 12 months prior to him/them entering college, since we will have been gone longer than 5 years.

 

And, in the case of "not sure where we'll return to" that blows the temporary loop hole right there, b/c to grant that it has to be "with a firm & clear intent to return to this state."

 

Maintaining residency for tax purposes, voting purposes, etc. does NOT equate residency status for in state tuition purposes. Sad, but true.

[DawnM]

I see. Maybe it has to do with the length of time. We were never gone for more than 4 years at a time and would return for one year and then go back for 4 years.

 

Dawn

 

You want to really carefully check this, though. It varies greatly from university to university.

 

We vote in the US elections (national), pay US income taxes, maintain our TX driver's license, etc. NONE OF THIS will grant our son(s) In State Tuition if we do not return a full 12 months prior to him/them entering college, since we will have been gone longer than 5 years.

 

And, in the case of "not sure where we'll return to" that blows the temporary loop hole right there, b/c to grant that it has to be "with a firm & clear intent to return to this state."

 

Maintaining residency for tax purposes, voting purposes, etc. does NOT equate residency status for in state tuition purposes. Sad, but true.

[Bootsie]

You want to really carefully check this, though. It varies greatly from university to university.

 

We vote in the US elections (national), pay US income taxes, maintain our TX driver's license, etc. NONE OF THIS will grant our son(s) In State Tuition if we do not return a full 12 months prior to him/them entering college, since we will have been gone longer than 5 years.

 

And, in the case of "not sure where we'll return to" that blows the temporary loop hole right there, b/c to grant that it has to be "with a firm & clear intent to return to this state."

 

Maintaining residency for tax purposes, voting purposes, etc. does NOT equate residency status for in state tuition purposes. Sad, but true.

 

I had lived in Texas for three years as a graduate student (with a research assistant position which granted in-state tuition); I then (without leaving the state) got a full-time job in Texas, bought a house in Texas, had a Texas driver's license, had a car registered in the state of Texas, had voted in Texas for three years, and served jury duty, but I did not qualify for in-state residency tuition rates.

 

A neighbor had graduated from a Texas high school, voted in Texas, and had a Texas Driver's License but he lived on a oil rig in the Gulf for a couple of years after his parents both died. When he was home he was staying with relatives or in a hotel. He decided to go to college and did not qualify for Texas in-state tuition (or any other state)

 

So the rules can be tricky and vary by state.

[cathmom]

It's not sounding like a good idea, then. We would be in Canada for a minimum of five years (with possibly one year in Germany - it's for a PhD in German) and have no intention of coming back to the state in which we currently reside. We would not own a house or any property.

[cathmom]

If you (parents) are US Citizens, you have a state of residence. My parents did not own a home in the US when I went to college, but they had a state of residence.

 

Dawn

 

I don't understand this. If you don't live in the US, how can you have a state of residence?

[DawnM]

The state they lived in before they left and the one they always returned to, was their state. They had their passports with addresses from that state, they had driver's licenses from that state, and they filed taxes with that state, even while overseas. They were even sent absentee ballots from that state.

 

When you lived in the US didn't you have a state of residence?

 

HOWEVER, I did not attend college in that state nor did I go to a state school, so I didn't try to get in state tuition anywhere. I can ask some other people I know who did receive in state tuition how it worked.

 

Dawn

 

I don't understand this. If you don't live in the US, how can you have a state of residence?

Edited February 27, 2012 by DawnM

[cathmom]

The state they lived in before they left and the one they always returned to, was their state. They had their passports with addresses from that state, they had driver's licenses from that state, and they filed taxes with that state, even while overseas. They were even sent absentee ballots from that state.

 

When you lived in the US didn't you have a state of residence?

 

HOWEVER, I did not attend college in that state nor did I go to a state school, so I didn't try to get in state tuition anywhere. I can ask some other people I know who did receive in state tuition how it worked.

 

Dawn

 

I haven't actually done this yet, so I don't know. We would be leaving our current state with no intention of returning, to live in Canada for at least 5 years while I get my PhD. Would we still have to pay taxes to a state?

[Aelwydd]

cathmom, my dh actually posted some information relevant to your situation on your other thread about Montreal.

 

In a nutshell, state residency laws vary. You will have to check your individual state to inquire about whether your kids would have in-state tuition. In Texas, they would not (with a few exceptions). However, in the state university I attended, even if you were not in-state, you were automatically given in-state tuition if you received financial aid of $1000 or more. That is to say, there are many variables here, including individual institutional policies.

 

State taxes--again, this is on a case-by-case basis. It is most likely that those states that would still recognize you as a resident, would be the ones requiring a tax return. I doubt most states would require one, unless you owned property there, or were otherwise making some form of profit off of investments in a given state. You have said you don't own property, so that's not likely an issue.

 

What is potentially an issue is you will definitely have to file a federal return, and if you make over a certain amount (I think the cut-off is somewhere around 90k), then you'd have to pay taxes to both the U.S. and Canada on that. That's not a Canada thing--that's a U.S. thing. Canadians, Germans, Brits, Norwegians, French...you name it, they don't have to pay their governments taxes if they are living here. But American citizens are subject to the ****able IRS even if they are living permanently elsewhere and paying taxes there. Don't get me started.

 

That said, if you do go to Canada to study, once you're in, your time can be counted towards permanent residency, even as a temporary resident. Permanent residency can be had in some places as early as a year, or sometimes sooner. Citizenship can be had in 3 years. That means your kids would be given resident tuition rates, if they attended up there.

 

Point being, if you're going to be there for 3-4 years, I would much prefer Canadian universities for my child(ren) anyway. Canada has a superior educational system for many reasons, not the least which it's cheaper than most American university systems. C'mon, you're looking at McGill. You've seen their rates (I could have an MPH there for 8K a year). That school is on par with any Ivy League, but try attending an Ivy for that price, for a graduate education. Unless you are getting a stipend, and are teaching, you're talking $$$. So, keep that in mind when weighing college options for your kids.

 

As for Montreal's culture, yes, it is more "big brotherish" simply because it's French. They have socialized government, and what's more, they believe in it. They are big on preserving their culture, to the point of alienating others at times. It's kind of their hallmark. This can be good or bad, depending on your views.

 

They fiercely defend French values, and while most Canadians are tolerant of their quirky province, a lot of Americans don't understand it; they are quick to deride the Quebecois, because they don't know their history, nor understand their viewpoint. So, be prepared to hear a lot of negativity about their culture and ideals, when seeking information from American sources, is all I will say.

 

Finally, and this is just an aside really, but as a catholic, you would find a great deal about Montreal's architecture to appreciate. It has a considerably catholic population, and it's called the "City of Saints" because of its many beautiful churches. It's frankly gorgeous. As for things to do, omg--take your pick. You've got parks galore, bike trails, hundreds of outdoor and indoor ice skating rinks, river sports, water parks, a Six Flags theme park, shopping, museums, culture. Tons and tons of things to see and do there.

[cathmom]

cathmom, my dh actually posted some information relevant to your situation on your other thread about Montreal.

 

 

Yes, thanks to you both! I know you've researched it extensively!

 

I'm going to call my local Canadian consulate this week and talk to them about this specific question. From what I read of my state's residency laws, they would not be considered in-state unless they were residing here 12 before the start of the term.

[Cammie]

The state they lived in before they left and the one they always returned to, was their state. They had their passports with addresses from that state, they had driver's licenses from that state, and they filed taxes with that state, even while overseas. They were even sent absentee ballots from that state.

 

When you lived in the US didn't you have a state of residence?

 

HOWEVER, I did not attend college in that state nor did I go to a state school, so I didn't try to get in state tuition anywhere. I can ask some other people I know who did receive in state tuition how it worked.

 

Dawn

 

This is interesting. We still own a house in the US but we rent it out. When our driver's licenses expire, we will not be able to renew them as we don't have a US residence. Our passports have our addresses in India. We only file state taxes because we have state income (the tental income on our house.) I don't think we would qualify as residents of our state unless and until we returned and lived their again.

[TeacherZee]

I really depends. I have voting residency in a US state, but I don't think I would qualify for in state tuition.

[Aelwydd]

Yes, thanks to you both! I know you've researched it extensively!

 

I'm going to call my local Canadian consulate this week and talk to them about this specific question.

 

You're most welcome! :)

 

Hope it goes well, and you get the information you need. We are in the process of planning a move to Canada, but it'll have to be 2-3 years from now.

[chiguirre]

Yes, thanks to you both! I know you've researched it extensively!

 

I'm going to call my local Canadian consulate this week and talk to them about this specific question. From what I read of my state's residency laws, they would not be considered in-state unless they were residing here 12 before the start of the term.

 

In addition to the Canadian consulate, contact your nearest Quebec delegation. They are QC government offices that include immigration and cultural questions and they'll be able to help you navigate QC specific rules. Here's their link:

 

http://www.gouv.qc.ca/portail/quebec/international/general/delegations/?lang=en