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Derek Owens - Any Middle Graders taking his classes?


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I've heard that Derek Owens courses are somewhat fast paced as well as the fact that he talks fast. I've reviewed his videos on youtube, but would like hear people's experience with his classes.

 

How would you rate the difficulty level of his Algebra 1 class for example for younger students? I know he requires them to take notes and do homework. Does it seem like a moderate amount of homework, like an hour a day or so? I also wonder how he handles students who struggle more vs. those who simply get it right away? I can imagine he gets a wide range of ages and abilities, especially for Algebra 1.

 

Thanks,

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Well, the pacing is entirely up to you. He posts a syllabus for in-person classes, and those are *generally* a very appropriate approach based on years and years of teaching the classes, but if you're doing the course online, you can speed up or slow down as much as you like. (Actually, you can do that with the in-person classes too, but you lose some of the benefit of meeting for class each week if you're not doing the same material everyone else is.) Derek is very, very flexible about when material is turned in, so if a kid needs to repeat a section (he also has a "B" version of each test, so if a child just bombs a chapter, he or she can go back, study the material, and take another different test that covers the same material and till receive full credit), he can do that.

 

If anything, I would say he errs towards *too* flexible rather than too rigid -- if a kid falls behind, it's up to the parent / kid to notice and push to finish in a reasonable amount of time. I've seen teens whose parents clearly do not look at the progress report (you'll get an update *every* time your child turns in homework -- but if your child never turns in homework, you might not ever see the link) and are surprised to learn that their kid hasn't been doing anything. Ahem. So, if your student turns in work regularly, you'll get constant updates that tell you *exactly* what he or she has missed and what the current grade is. If your student turns in nothing and you aren't checking up on him or her, you just won't hear anything.

 

We didn't use Derek when ds was in Algebra 1 (though we used the same textbook). Ds has gone on to do geometry and algebra 2 as a middle schooler with Derek. It's hard for me to know, since ds is a bit exceptional academically. The videos are all very short (mostly 1-3 minutes long), so if a kid needs a few extra minutes to fill in the notes, he can always pause a video, wait to finish writing before he starts the next, or re-watch a section. I think the fill-in-the-blank notes are very helpful, especially at the lower levels. It's almost as if the kids are building their own textbooks. Again, a student who simply chooses *not* to do the work will be a a huge disadvantage and there's no specific grading of the notebooks. But Derek makes it very easy to do what is asked and perform well in the course.

 

I don't think he moves particularly quickly, and the amount of work seems quite reasonable to me. Ds works daily, but doesn't seem to have a problem keeping up with the syllabus. He really enjoys the classes and we plan to stick with Derek through calculus.

 

Other parents I know have complained about the amount of work. But they were complaining about 5-8 hours of work per week, which seemed completely reasonable to me for a high school level (geometry) math class (class work and homework together). Less than that amount of time per week and I'd be questioning whether it was really covering the material thoroughly. And, of course, speed depends a lot on the individual student and how distractible he or she is.

 

Ds has always done very well in the classes, and Derek has never said a word about ds being younger than most of his classmates. On the other hand, I've been standing nearby and overheard conversations where he has very gently told a parent that he did not think a student was really ready for a particular class and that that student would be best prepared by moving back a class for the year. He doesn't seem very concerned with age so much as readiness and an ability to do the course work.

 

Does that help at all?

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Yes, thanks, that's good to know and very helpful. I didn't realize the classes could that flexible. If our kids take one of his classes it would be their first actually class taught by an instructor. So I want to make sure they are prepared and not blown away by Derek's classes. Of course they will need to get used to this style of classroom for their future. I'm just not sure at what age or maturity level they will need to be to dive right in like your ds. I have heard of younger students taking his classes. However as you said your ds is an exceptional student. I've also heard of very young children doing AoPS and thriving. But that isn't at all the norm. I guess the maturity level needed will vary with each child in terms of their age and development.

Edited by dereksurfs
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I can imagine he gets a wide range of ages and abilities, especially for Algebra 1.

 

Thanks,

 

I wouldn't necessarily assume this. There's a certain amount of self-selecting in the process. He has extensive, extensive samples, including *all* his pre-algebra lesson videos available on youtube and his lucid education site, so you'll be able to tell for yourself if it's a good fit.

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I am using his prealgebra course with my just turned 10yo son. I have adapted what we do to accommodate my son's relative youth. I do the note taking. I actually find Mr. Owens to give ample time to take notes, much more so than other video lecturers we've used. All of the homework (called practice) is in the note/workbook and is not graded (solutions are provided). The workbook format is fabulous for a younger student. Then there are worksheets (called homework) that are graded, so they're more like quizzes. Finally, there are exams.

 

It's been working very well for my student because we can go quickly through the stuff he knows, frequently skipping the practice problems and then spend more time on the new material.

 

I plan to use Mr. Owens for algebra next year as well.

 

ETA: I wanted to say that if I didn't have the ability to alter the format of the course that it probably wouldn't be a good fit for my son. I could not just hand him the materials and tell him to go for it because I would have a revolt on my hands. For him, taking notes would be difficult. The lectures are long (once you've watched all of the little pieces) and slow moving. On most topics, there are too many practice problems for my son's needs. So while I think that Mr. Owens' courses are great, you need to make them work for your situation. Thankfully, they are designed so that this is possible.

Edited by EKS
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Kai,

How many short video segments do you typically watch before doing one homework lesson? Is there any built-in review other than what must be remembered in order to do the advancing problems? Please share how young your student is. Mine will be 10 and I'm wondering if I would still need to accommodate for her age.

Thank you!

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Kai,

How many short video segments do you typically watch before doing one homework lesson? Is there any built-in review other than what must be remembered in order to do the advancing problems? Please share how young your student is. Mine will be 10 and I'm wondering if I would still need to accommodate for her age.

Thank you!

 

We typically watch just a few (sometimes none). Most of the videos are of Mr. Owens going over example problems, so I have my son do the examples himself (with me as scribe) and we talk about them. Then if he is having trouble with anything, I might pick some of the practice problems for him to do. I can use this approach because most of what's being covered right now is review for my son. I'll likely take a different approach next year when it is all new.

 

There is no built in review except for a large review problem set to be done prior to each semester exam.

 

My son just turned 10 a few days ago. I would say that I am accommodating for two things, his age on one hand and his high level of ability in math on the other. I accommodate for his age by writing the notes for him and scribing for the example problems (that he is doing himself). I accommodate for his high ability by allowing him to simply do the example problems instead of watching them being done and by allowing him to skip most of the practice problems. Anything he turns into Mr. Owens for grading needs to be written by him and done without any help from me.

 

Having someone other than Mom doing the grading has forced my son to see the importance of writing out his work. The fact that he refused to do this before taking this class is the reason I didn't have him start algebra this year. That alone is worth the price of admission (for us).

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I'm smiling about this helping children learn to write out their work. That has been something my dd has gotten very frustrated about as well (thanks to Singapore's teaching of mental math, I'm guessing :)). But, it's a skill she absolutely must learn prior to algebra. I was planning to go with the Lucid Education pre-algebra course. Is there a reason you chose the online course? :bigear:

 

to edit: I just realized that the Algebra course is offered online only.

Edited by Dassah
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Kai,

How many short video segments do you typically watch before doing one homework lesson? Is there any built-in review other than what must be remembered in order to do the advancing problems? Please share how young your student is. Mine will be 10 and I'm wondering if I would still need to accommodate for her age.

Thank you!

 

Ds was turning 10 when we started Dolciani at home (the text DO uses for algebra 1) and 11 when he did Derek's geometry course. I made no accommodations along the way. It was my view that if I were going to say he was at that level, I wanted him to be performing at that level, you know? I find the videos move slowly enough (and there are enough breaks in them) that ds never had any trouble keeping up with the notes or working the example problems.

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As I'm reading that you don't always watch the videos I'm wondering if that is because the notes from the lectures are all ready written and that allows you to teach from the notes just as the video would. Aren't the lecture notes the only "text" material? I had guessed the videos were the main reason for using this algebra course.

 

Regarding the talk about note taking: I thought from looking through the samples that the notetaking was actually just doing sample problems after the written lecture notes. Am I wrong?

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I'm smiling about this helping children learn to write out their work. That has been something my dd has gotten very frustrated about as well (thanks to Singapore's teaching of mental math, I'm guessing :)). But, it's a skill she absolutely must learn prior to algebra. I was planning to go with the Lucid Education pre-algebra course. Is there a reason you chose the online course? :bigear:

 

to edit: I just realized that the Algebra course is offered online only.

 

I chose the online prealgebra course because I specifically wanted Mr. Owens to do the grading. Having someone else involved has been motivating for my son. We'd still be arguing about the necessity to write out his work otherwise.

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Ds was turning 10 when we started Dolciani at home (the text DO uses for algebra 1) and 11 when he did Derek's geometry course. I made no accommodations along the way. It was my view that if I were going to say he was at that level, I wanted him to be performing at that level, you know? I find the videos move slowly enough (and there are enough breaks in them) that ds never had any trouble keeping up with the notes or working the example problems.

 

This (the bolded) is the approach I took with my older son. I have since decided that it was a mistake. With my 10yo, I provide scaffolding as needed, particularly for things that are truly unrelated to the math, such as note taking. I don't consider the note taking aspect to be a part of performing at the prealgebra level. At some point, I'll hand over the note taking to him, but it will be when he's ready, and not because he has reached a certain level in math.

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As I'm reading that you don't always watch the videos I'm wondering if that is because the notes from the lectures are all ready written and that allows you to teach from the notes just as the video would. Aren't the lecture notes the only "text" material? I had guessed the videos were the main reason for using this algebra course.

 

Regarding the talk about note taking: I thought from looking through the samples that the notetaking was actually just doing sample problems after the written lecture notes. Am I wrong?

 

Have you looked at the sample workbook pages online? If you print them out and go through the corresponding lectures with them, it will all become clear.

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