How to determine a good college "fit"

[snowbeltmom]

My oldest is a sophomore and we are just beginning to comprise a list of colleges that he would like to start visiting this summer and next school year.

 

I did not do a good job of evaluating school districts when my kids were small, and I would like to avoid the same types of mistakes when developing our college list since I can't homeschool college.;)

 

When evaluating public schools, I looked at the number of AP's offered and the state rating. The school system I chose had the highest possible state rating, was listed in Newsweek's list of top public schools, and offered the most AP's in the entire county. However, I did not know enough to ask the more important follow-up questions: How many APs are offered each year, and how do the kids perform on the AP exams? What is the average SAT/ACT scores, does the school participate in the individual Olympiads and AMCs, etc. Had I asked the follow-up questions, we never would have moved into this school district.

 

I have read enough college guide books to know that the rankings don't tell the whole story at the college level either. My son is a science/math kid and hopes to go on to medical school. What follow-up questions should I be asking to help us find colleges that are good fits and will help him achieve his goal?

[Julie in MN]

The first things I think about are pretty basic -

 

 

Does the child want a small school or a huge one?

 

Christian or secular?

 

Nearby or far away?

 

Is there a med school associated with the college?

 

Ideally, I wish it was easier to find out which schools actually have good resources for graduates - connections to the working world or to graduate professors seem like the key to success, but I'm not sure how to find good info except to ask for personal experiences from everyone you can.

[Beth in SW WA]

:lurk5: :bigear:

[snowbeltmom]

Ideally, I wish it was easier to find out which schools actually have good resources for graduates - connections to the working world or to graduate professors seem like the key to success, but I'm not sure how to find good info except to ask for personal experiences from everyone you can.

This exactly. How do I find how many undergrads are accepted to medical school, what the average MCAT score and gpa is, how many students are able to conduct research, etc?

 

I also have no idea how to discern whether what I read in a guide book is accurate. For example, I have read in more than one college guide book that JHU is extremely competitive and cut-throat - more so than a typical pre-med environment. One book even said that the professors lock up the labs to prevent students from sabotaging others' labs.

 

My son attended JHU for a CTY program. While there he met with one of the coaches. My son expressed his concerns regarding what he had read about JHU to the coach. The coach had him speak to some of the team members that were still on campus for the summer. The kids were all very positive about the school and said the guide books were inaccurate. In addition, the acceptance rate for the team members to medical school had been 100% for the past few years. Based on the student's accounts of the school, JHU would be a great fit for my son, but should he completely discount the guide book report? I just don't know?

[Jane in NC]

One of the things that my son looked at was research opportunities for undergrads. LACs or schools without graduate departments in potential majors often utilize the undergrads whereas schools with graduate programs usually fund their grad students first. This was important to my son but it may not be a top priority for all students, particularly potential med school applicants. That seems to be another world entirely.

 

I would not hesitate to ask the school for numbers. But then I would not allow numbers to tell the entire story. It is so important that students spend a night on campus without parents to get a real feel for what the campus is like. My son knew that one school that was great on paper with a potentially wonderful mentor in his field of interest was not the right fit after spending a night on campus and seeing how the Greek organizations ruled the social life there. Not his speed! A college may have near perfect statistics but if a student is not comfortable, he may not succeed there.

 

Creekland has been doing lots of research on potential undergrad programs for her son who wants to attend medical school. Perhaps you could search her posts for words of wisdom.

[creekland]

 

Creekland has been doing lots of research on potential undergrad programs for her son who wants to attend medical school. Perhaps you could search her posts for words of wisdom.

 

And I just saw this thread as I actually have time this Saturday morning to catch up on some! (Three more weeks of working full time and counting down!!! I'm a "part-time" lover.)

 

Anyway... what we've done was to visit some local colleges in general to get the overall feel as mentioned by a previous poster. Do my guys like small, medium, or large? Rural, suburban, city with a "bubble" (campus) or without? Christian or secular? Anything else?

 

Oldest knew within a very short time that he wanted small, Christian, and LAC.

 

Middle has been more open to many possibilities, but took a dislike for urban without a campus.

 

Then I looked at entrance stats. From my high school teaching experience I personally feel that SAT/ACT scores ARE a reasonable correlation with ability to do higher level work. This is not the same as saying that everyone with high scores will do well (or low scores won't) as there is much more to it than that. I'm saying over a larger population, my more capable students tend to score better and I want my guys with peers who tend to be equally as capable as they are. Since we also want merit aid, we looked for schools where mine were in the top 25% of stats - but not overwhelmingly so to where they'd be underchallenged. If my guy would be in an Honors College we looked at their stats more than those of the whole school IF he would mainly be in classes with those students due to the set up or his major or whatever.

 

Then we looked at majors they liked. In these cases we sometimes e-mailed (or spoke on visits with) profs in the specific department asking anything that came to mind, but one biggie was "what are recent graduates doing now?" This was more a deal with my oldest and will be with my youngest. Since middle wants pre-med, it's only important if he changes his mind.

 

For pre-med, I read, read, and read some more - anything and everything I could find online. I asked physicians we know. Then I considered my son. Right now he wants medical missions... his undergrad just won't matter too much. We've eliminated the schools that are "low" already, so those aren't a factor. We do want undergrad to be inexpensive. Hence, he applied to schools known for good merit aid and/or good aid overall if a combo. We eliminated all without merit aid. Right now our personal economy has us qualifying for a bit of need-based aid, but if he only gets need-based aid and the economy improves (it IS looking better at the moment), then all of our restored income will go into college bills. I prefer they get saved for med school.

 

When we visited places we talked with pre-med advisers. After a few of these you will start to see who knows what they are talking about and doing and who isn't quite there. That's the same advice I was given, and while I didn't consider it helpful at the time, it's proven true. The data they give, the specifics they talk about, what they do... one can tell why certain schools are more successful with their pre-meds than others. We had some who seemed surprised that I brought up the MCAT changing my guy's year and others who were already prepared specifically with HOW they are preparing their pre-meds.

 

We did look at reports online and in guide books and considered what they said - then did some considering when making actual visits ourselves. Any cons stayed in our mind, but weren't the deciding factor except in two cases where the cons were definitely confirmed.

 

He has 6 schools on his final "applied to" list and can see himself at any of them. He's been accepted to 4 and 2 will notify in March.

 

Johns Hopkins? Yes, it is cut-throat but the "incidents" you read about (while true) were in the past from what I've been told. It has improved since then. Students who go there like it, but those same student tend to thrive on competition. If your guy does too, it could be a great fit. Mine prefers other places. Pre-med is competitive anyway, so anywhere he goes it will sort of be competitive...

 

What knocked JH off our list was its location (location in the city). It's not at all what my guy wants. That doesn't mean it isn't what your guy wants. Base your applications off your guy.

 

BEWARE of 100% acceptance rates (or any high rates) - anywhere. Schools like to inflate their rates, but what happens is that students who aren't likely to get accepted aren't supported, and therefore, don't apply. Many are weeded out much earlier (freshman/sophomore year). No school has 100% of pre-med wannabes getting accepted into med school (even accounting for those who change their minds due to reasons other than academic).

 

Your guy has a great ACT score, no? He'll do fine as long as he doesn't get distracted while in college (love, sports, freedom, etc). MCAT and ACT scores tend to correlate well... I wouldn't worry about acceptance rates nearly as much as what the college can provide (see above).

 

Start visits and let him find his fit. Visit schools you have no intention of applying to just to have some to compare. Anything local will work - it doesn't have to be a huge trip - save those for schools making the cut. Insisting on secular? Visit a Christian school (unless atheist and it really bugs you) just to have a comparison. Ditto that with visiting a secular school if insisting on Christian. Visit ANYTHING to have more to compare. Then what is liked will stand out and you can start paring down. We even visited a school lower academically than I would like. It did firm up our resolve.

 

Oh yes, as a final "plan" for us, my guy is going to re-visit (overnight) any school that makes the cut financially. Then he'll have to consider his options.

[snowbeltmom]

Creekland, thanks so much for the great info.

[Candid]

Besides looking at just the colleges, make a reasonable guess list of possible med schools and see if you can learn where they get their students. You may find some colleges you wouldn't think about on that list which will help to give your ds more choice.