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Children who purposely annoy


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#1 Cindy in C-ville

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 11:34 AM

Do any of you have kids who intentionally irritate you? Katya makes noises with her mouth, gets in my space, and basically just asks for attention through annoying behavior. And, yes, she gets plenty of my attention for positive behavior and just general snuggling, cuddling, talking, cooking together, etc. One of the most difficult ones is when she is kissing and hugging me, but it's not affectionate, but really manipulative. Of course I hate to tell her to get out of my space, stop hugging me, etc., but it's clear that her purpose is not affectionate.

Wisdom?

#2 meggie

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 11:38 AM

Pigby does it when my attention is elsewhere like when I'm writing or reading or on the computer. Since the computer is a problem for me, I try to stay off it when he gets like that and play a game with him or something. I'm sure that's not very helpful for you though. I have no advice, just :grouphug:

#3 jplain

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 11:39 AM

Have you spent time thinking/reading about this behavior through the lens of Katya's experience as an adoptee?

(Edited to add, I know it is unwise to assume everything is about adoption. Of course, that isn't always the explanation. Sometimes it is just a kid doing annoying kid stuff. I'm just wondering if you've considered it, as it might provide you with some guidance regarding how best to respond.)

Edited by jplain, 02 February 2012 - 11:46 AM.


#4 Mothersweets

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 11:40 AM

If one of my kids is doing that, I flat out tell them to stop. I explain what they are doing, why it is not appropriate (or welcome) and how to behave otherwise.

#5 jillian

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 11:41 AM

DD does this. It drives me nuts. DH can't understand how I get so annoyed but oh my it bugs me. No advice but I'll be reading this.

eta: my dd's issue is a developmental one

Edited by jillian, 02 February 2012 - 02:46 PM.


#6 Cindy in C-ville

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 11:46 AM

Have you spent time thinking/reading about this kind of behavior through the lens of Katya's experience as an adoptee?


Oh yes. MUCH! What I'm not sure about it the best way to help her work through this behavior when the roots go down to a need for the mothering she missed. In "normal" situations, what I've always heard, and what generally works with the others, is to give them attention for the positive behavior and much of the negative behavior with subside. For Katya, it just doesn't relent. But increases, and increases, and increases. I've demonstrated countless times how to give "good" hugs, "good" kisses, respect space and still be affectionate. I am particularly careful to give her the tools to communicate to people that she doesn't want to be hugged, kissed, etc. and how to recognized "good touch" and "bad touch."

Thoughts? Red flags?

#7 indigomama

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 11:46 AM

If I remember correctly, Katya is adopted from Ukraine. I know it's been a while you've adopted and I am sure you give her plenty of good attention, but it might be a lifetime of her seeking "extra" attention, to make up for the time when attention was scarce.

I lived in Ukraine, and regularly visited one particular orphanage and while it was nicer than some, the kids did not get much personal contact or attention. They did not learn appropriate ways of interacting with people.

I think the best way to work through this is prevention and redirection. Continue to make sure her "cup" is overflowing with positive attention. And when annoying things come up redirect. She's making weird noises, have her read a book out loud to you, or practice her memory work, or chew gum. She's hanging on you, too in your face, take her hand and go for a small walk. Send her on a small task and praise her for getting your slippers for you. Keep her busy and engaged in something besides the annoying problems.

#8 amo_mea_filiis.

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 11:53 AM

My dd has asperger's and is sensory seeking. I have no problems telling her to go rub her blanket instead of my arm. She can hug me, but I'll stop her when she's rubbing her cheek on my chest (for the feeling of my shirt, not anything inappropriate).

What I don't do much is talk about it. I just physically stop her in the moment and redirect her.

#9 Amy in NH

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 11:56 AM

I think she's old enough for you to tell her that.

#10 Cindy in C-ville

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 12:01 PM

I think she's old enough for you to tell her that.


Tell her what?

#11 Cindy in C-ville

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 12:04 PM

Redirection is key. But, with so many around, it's not always possible to redirect. I can't take her hand and go for a small walk when I conjugating verbs with my 8th grade. Not ideal, but the reality of large family life. Right now, she's diligently working on her math facts b/c the others finished their morning work and are going to jump on the trampoline. She knows that she needs to get her work done before she can join them. She totally has the capability to attend to task and do so without annoying me, or others, but sometimes that's a lot more fun than simply attending to task.

#12 gardenmom5

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 12:05 PM

is she a sensory seeker and is looking to meet those needs?

#13 Cassy

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 12:07 PM

My eldest, DS12 does this. I don't understand why. He's always had plenty of love and positive attention. Maybe being the eldest, with three little brothers following in reasonably quick succession left him feeling a little insecure.

I used to think it was just me, but over the past couple of years DH has commented on it too. We've discussed it and both feel that he's pushing us, testing us, to see whether we love him enough not to get ratty with him. I am usually very determined not to get ratty with him, in the hopes that he'll eventually feel secure enough not to do it, but sometimes, if he catches me at a very bad moment I can snap. Now that he's getting older, of course, it's becoming a little easier to point out what he's doing, and ask him to reflect on it :001_unsure:. Mostly, I'm hoping he'll grow out of it as he matures, but who knows?

Best wishes

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#14 Cindy in C-ville

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 12:07 PM

is she a sensory seeker and is looking to meet those needs?


Perhaps. How would I go about identifying this and then working with her on it?

#15 bookfiend

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 12:07 PM

Just a thought, but she could be looking for boundries as much as she is looking for affection. I believe children understand the love that comes with the willingness to train/discipline. Would you allow this same behavior from any of your other children? Doesn't she know you wouldn't? Giving her the same boundries as all the others shows her she is the same, not different, not damaged, in fact - not needy. It shows you have confidence in her ability to control herself. It shows she is just one of the other greatly loved children in your family.

#16 Cindy in C-ville

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 12:11 PM

Just a thought, but she could be looking for boundries as much as she is looking for affection. I believe children understand the love that comes with the willingness to train/discipline. Would you allow this same behavior from any of your other children? Doesn't she know you wouldn't? Giving her the same boundries as all the others shows her she is the same, not different, not damaged, in fact - not needy. It shows you have confidence in her ability to control herself. It shows she is just one of the other greatly loved children in your family.


No, I wouldn't allow this behavior from any of the kids. If they are purposely annoying each other, and with homeschooling five of them we definitely have this at times, they have to be by themselves until they are ready to join the family. I do think that I can verbalize to her that I am confident that she can control herself. That's a good message.

#17 myfunnybunch

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 12:37 PM

My 9 y.o. pesters and gets in my space for attention sometimes. I move to arm's reach but still keep physical contact, make eye contact and tell him, firmly, "I enjoy spending time with you. You are a remarkable young man. You don't need to pester me to get my attention." Then I give him one "real" hug and make a plan to read together or snuggle or play a game, whether it's in that moment or in the near future. A couple times, at bedtime when the issue isn't immediate, I've talked to him in general about personal space and annoying people for attention. I am honest about how that kind of hugging makes me feel. I always make sure to begin and end with something along the lines of: "You are kind and clever and funny. The people around you appreciate those qualities."

It seems to be helping. Now when he starts to pester me, I can just say, "You are a remarkable young man. You don't need to pester me to get my attention," and I can redirect him easily.

That's what is working for us right now.

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#18 torikei

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 12:52 PM

Some children feel very safe when all the attention is focused on them. This can be quite common in older adoptees. It sounds like you are doing a great job. Sometimes it can be overwhelming as the parent so :grouphug: to you. There is a book called The Out of Sync Child that addresses sensory issues. Another beneficial book is Attaching in Adoption by Deborah Gray I believe. My very best advice from one who has been there several times is to keep the bonding process growing. I would say more but typing on iPhone is torture. :001_smile:

Tori

Edited by torikei, 02 February 2012 - 01:22 PM.


#19 SweetMissMagnolia

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 02:29 PM

yeah my ds does things like that.....if he doesn't want to do something or if he knows he has to be quiet in a certain place---he knows how to push buttons and be annoying....UGH what to do? no idea--therapist says try to ignore the behavior but it is sooooo hard sometimes.....

#20 Ellie

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 02:36 PM

I'd be all over a child who purposely annoyed anyone...especially me! That is a discipline issue and it needs to be taken care of.

#21 Amy in NH

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 10:41 PM

Do any of you have kids who intentionally irritate you? Katya makes noises with her mouth, gets in my space, and basically just asks for attention through annoying behavior. And, yes, she gets plenty of my attention for positive behavior and just general snuggling, cuddling, talking, cooking together, etc. One of the most difficult ones is when she is kissing and hugging me, but it's not affectionate, but really manipulative. Of course I hate to tell her to get out of my space, stop hugging me, etc., but it's clear that her purpose is not affectionate.

Wisdom?


Tell her, "I need a little space right now. Let me give you a quick hug, and then you need to give me some room."

Tell her, "That kind of noise overstimulates me. Please stop before I lose my temper."

Tell her, "I don't like this kind of hug, it feels more like you want something than that you really need a hug right now. How about if you use your words instead of hanging on me."

Seems like you need to call her out on her behavior and/or tell her the appropriate way to ask for what she's really wanting right then.

#22 Lawana

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 10:45 PM

If you consider the purpose of the behavior, it seems to be directed at getting attention. Have you asked her directly, "It seems you may need more attention than you are getting. What can I do to help you feel you get enough attention?" You may think you are giving her plenty, but she may have an entirely different perspective.

ETA I didn't read through the replies to realize this was an adopted child. The above may apply, but may not, I don't know. In any case, I hope you can reach some solution that works.

Edited by Lawana, 02 February 2012 - 10:50 PM.
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#23 swellmomma

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 10:46 PM

No advice, my 3rd born is annoying as all get out. He intentionally does thing to annoy others and if told to stop he does it more and louder

#24 Mommyfaithe

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 10:50 PM

No advice, my 3rd born is annoying as all get out. He intentionally does thing to annoy others and if told to stop he does it more and louder


Yeah, I have one too. Official diagnosis....butt head.

It is a personality trait....not a good one, and when he acts that way, I point out how much he hates it when someone else acts like him. I know grown men like that.....and had an uncle who would just bust chops all.the.time.

Oy.
Faithe

#25 swellmomma

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 11:09 PM

Yeah, I have one too. Official diagnosis....butt head.

It is a personality trait....not a good one, and when he acts that way, I point out how much he hates it when someone else acts like him. I know grown men like that.....and had an uncle who would just bust chops all.the.time.

Oy.
Faithe


:lol: I thought it was tied into his ADHD and maybe it is to an extent, but I think you nailed it on the head with your diagnosis. I feel like I spend 80% of my time with him correcting, reminding, disciplining the annoying things he does. Drives us all up the wall.

#26 Jaybee

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 12:01 AM

"Another beneficial book is Attaching in Adoption by Deborah Gray"

I second Deborah Gray's book. She also has a second book out now called (something like) Nurturing Adoptions. I have found her books THE most helpful books in giving me specific things to do and say. Her books are also very hope-inspiring, in that she just does not give up on a kid. She gives good strategies for dealing with boundaries, etc., and does not back away from difficult situations that others may not address. She deals with issues in a positive but firm way.

#27 Cindy in C-ville

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 07:46 AM

"Another beneficial book is Attaching in Adoption by Deborah Gray"

I second Deborah Gray's book. She also has a second book out now called (something like) Nurturing Adoptions. I have found her books THE most helpful books in giving me specific things to do and say. Her books are also very hope-inspiring, in that she just does not give up on a kid. She gives good strategies for dealing with boundaries, etc., and does not back away from difficult situations that others may not address. She deals with issues in a positive but firm way.


Sounds perfect! Thank you!


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