Rigor threads

[laundrycrisis]

I haven't seen any threads on rigor/academic standards in homeschooling lately. I miss reading them but don't feel qualified to start one myself ! :tongue_smilie: But I will say that when I feel like a lost, lonely misfit in the world of homeschooling, I dig up those threads and read them. Those are where I find my alignment and my inspiration to keep reaching for more. Reading those helps me to ignore the siren song that I sometimes feel surrounded by. When I need to retreat from what feels almost like peer pressure to do less, it helps to read encouragement from those who make the case for doing more. Thank you especially to those who have shared these thoughts. :)

 

I would like to sign up for a service that sends a daily email encouraging an academic focus for homeschooling. Does anyone want to provide that ? :lol:

 

Okay, in all seriousness....I struggle with feeling like a rarity for wanting to have an academic focus, for caring about the kids being at least at grade level, etc. I'm uncomfortable with feeling that perhaps this is a rare thing among homeschoolers now. I do my best not to think critical thoughts about others and to worry only about my own business. I care about where our kids are academically. This seems to qualify me as an oddball. :confused: Is anyone else having this experience ?

[Tarreymere]

We're all about rigor in our homeschool, but since I know very few other homeschoolers in real life (okay, I know one) it hasn't been an issue. We do other weird things like school year 'round and we do educational things all day long and not just for two or three hours. Creepy, right?

 

I'm not prepping the kids for the Ivy League. I enjoy learning and I enjoy modeling a learning lifestyle. I despise the anti-intellectual trend in popular culture. I was a nerd in high school. I filled up my first kindle and have trouble sending content off into archive. St. John's College had me at 'hello'. In my next life I definitely plan to attend.

 

I also know my kids and what they are capable of. I see no point in allowing them to work below their ability. I am homeschooling for academic reasons after all. My husband calls it 'giving them Neo's blue pill'.

[FaithManor]

I know how you feel. None of the homeschoolers in my area that have high schoolers, at least the ones I've met, have much for standards and especially at the high school level. They look at me like I have lost my mind because gasp, we homeschool 200 days per year or there abouts, teach real math and science, keep records, average grades, require 28 credits (the boys may have more) to graduate from homeschooling, and gasp....the biggest horror of them all...I am not kidding, this is the thing I have been the most openly criticized for amongst the homeschoolers here -most of whom I now have virtually nothing to do with - my kids are all interested in STEM careers and tier 1 universities.

 

Now, I don't care one bit what their kids do upon graduation. Seriously, I don't have a dog in their fight. But, I am absolutely shocked at the criticism heaped on those few homeschoolers whose kids are challenged in math and science and rise to the occasion. Oh, the other biggie, we use textbooks for high school - apparently that is a shameful choice - and we study foreign languages! Yep, the looks of horror, the step backward they take from me when they find out what we do, ...I know exactly how you feel.

 

Take heart! Go hang out on the high school board even if you don't have a high schooler yet and read the riveting discussions we have about AP's, SAT's, ACT's, getting into college, how to prepare our children for a career in X, how to land merit money, how to pursue rigorousness in disciplines such as art, music, photography, foreign language, etc. Let Ester Maria, Regentrude, Jane in NC, and Nan in Mass (to name only a few because there are an awful lot of moms on that board GETTING THE JOB DONE!!!!) make your brain turn into oatmeal at the same time inspiring you to keep on going, stick to your standards, define your goals, and see the bigger picture.

 

Go look up the thread on what does it mean to be well-educated...you will take heart after reading through it, seeing the variety of responses and approaches all of which do seem to lead to the same goal...a logically/rhetorically thinking, responsible, inspired adult who will be able to pursue their passion because they've been given an excellent education.

 

Log into the college board - see what Margaret in Co, Creekland, etc. are posting. You will be amazed!

 

Most of the rigor threads or the "where to set the bar" threads will not be on the general board - okay, except for when Spycar waxes poetic about Moby Dick :lol:. This is our chatty, let our hair down board. The High school Board is where we put on our big girl panties on and get serious! :D

 

Faith - off to grade algebra exams, discuss more genetics with her 9th grader (JUST EXACTLY HOW MUCH IN GENETICS DOES ONE 14 YEAR OLD NEED TO KNOW - I'M SICK OF IT!!!!!!!), hold a conversation in Latin with her sons, watch the last Sister Wendy Art History video with said 14 year old and check his notetaking, listen to the 6th grader attempt to recite the Periodic Table of Elements (his idea, not mine so no tomatoes please), wrestle with parenthetical phrases and the gramar reluctant 8th grader, make more assignments, and prepare for chem students who require tutoring and ACT prep exams this afternoon...do you feel better???? :D

[mombygrace]

This is just the thread I needed. I've been having doubts lately because most homeschoolers around me shun academic rigor. I'll be following this thread. My kids thrive on a rigorous program with fun activities thrown in.

[Halcyon]

I completely understand. We do run a fairly "rigorous' homeschool here (I know people define that term differently) and we are definitely different than almost every other homeschooler around us. It's not that they intentionally are NOT rigorous--it's just that most do not place the same emphasis on academics and learning above ALL else. There's always "something" that distracts them from schoolwork. In our school, barring severe illness, we learn. Whether that means using curricula, reading books, discussions, science experiments, what have you--we're learning.

 

I will post more on this later, but school has begun :tongue_smilie:

[justamouse]

We're all about rigor in our homeschool, but since I know very few other homeschoolers in real life (okay, I know one) it hasn't been an issue. We do other weird things like school year 'round and we do educational things all day long and not just for two or three hours. Creepy, right?

 

I'm not prepping the kids for the Ivy League. I enjoy learning and I enjoy modeling a learning lifestyle. I despise the anti-intellectual trend in popular culture. I was a nerd in high school. I filled up my first kindle and have trouble sending content off into archive. St. John's College had me at 'hello'. In my next life I definitely plan to attend.

 

I also know my kids and what they are capable of. I see no point in allowing them to work below their ability. I am homeschooling for academic reasons after all. My husband calls it 'giving them Neo's blue pill'.

 

:iagree::iagree: I love St. John, and The Thomas More College of Liberal Arts .

Edited February 1, 2012 by justamouse

[ByGrace3]

Thanks for this thread. Especially with littles, I definitely feel like an oddball. I have no intention of "taking away my children's childhood" ;) but sometimes that is how people make you feel. :glare: I am encouraged by many of you who do post, and appreciate having you all to "look up to" in our homeschooling journey. I also know I won't wake up one day with a logic or rhetoric student of that level without a strong foundation in the grammar stage. So, we press on. Thanks to many of you that set and keep the bar at a level that many of us aspire to in our homeschools. :grouphug:

[elegantlion]

I look at what others are doing on this board and wouldn't say we are rigorous. However, I don't know any classical homeschoolers in my area, not saying they aren't here, I just don't know of any.

 

I would call us intentional. As we approach high school, we're gaining momentum in the rigor department.

[lllll]

..

[elegantlion]

It's possible that many of you don't meet the more rigorous hs'ers irl because they are home doing school with their kids. I never did much with the hs groups, even though I was a member for the simple reason that we had SO much material to cover that I just really had to stay home and do it.

 

(NOT saying that everyone should stay home all the time and do nothing but school. Just that there could be some like me who DID do this - out of necessity, mostly. Older kids and all ...)

 

That's us. I can't afford to take a day out of the week just to be "social". None of the classes offered around here would be academic related.

[FourOaks]

So needed to see this thread today. I seriously just got finished having a conversation with myself in my closet while getting dressed (yes, I'll admit I talk with myself because I seem to have so few others who I can have these discussions with) about this VERY topic.

 

I can't find any groups or offerings around me that hold to the academic standards that I have set. That in itself would be okay, but the fact that others think I have a "problem" because I have these standards just kills me! Why is it so terrible that I would expect a highly academic, highly intellectual, discussion-filled course where there are specific goals/expectations to be met for my (somewhat advanced) 9th grader next year -- or even for my 7th graders next year?

 

And forget even thinking about speaking allowed the words "graded class" for high school level courses!!! How dare I think that there should be grades given for expectations met or not met. Seriously, I am looked at as though I am an alien and I am so tired of being talked about behind my back (because I know that I am the subject of conversations).

 

Just had to have a conversation about some of this again yesterday when I was asked why I wouldn't continue with a group that I am working with again next year. It's just not okay that I have expectations for my kids. I feel like I am losing friends over it and I'm just sick of it.

 

Yes, I love the flexibility of homeschooling, and yes, I do think we have the ability to change up things when family issues arise and that is wonderful. And no, we probably don't accomplish even half of what I'd like to most of the time, but I still feel like at least setting the bar higher is better than not having a bar at all. KWIM?

[justamouse]

It's possible that many of you don't meet the more rigorous hs'ers irl because they are home doing school with their kids. I never did much with the hs groups, even though I was a member for the simple reason that we had SO much material to cover that I just really had to stay home and do it.

 

(NOT saying that everyone should stay home all the time and do nothing but school. Just that there could be some like me who DID do this - out of necessity, mostly. Older kids and all ...)

 

:iagree: We just don't have the time.

[rutamattatt]

This thread has made me breathe a sigh of relief.

 

We are first year home schoolers in a community with many home school families. I cannot begin to tell you how many times I hear (literally...out loud), "Wait until next year and you relax. You'll see that they don't need to be doing 'school' stuff all the time." Or "Why in the world are you making your kids learn Latin?" or "Where did you get that curriculum anyway?" It goes on and on...and on. Did I mention it is also out loud? :lol: I actually have people tell me that they would love to do some things with me and my kids next year when we "calm down".

 

Now, there is no judgement on my part. Honestly. I am really good at the live and let live philosophy, especially when it comes to home schooling, but I would love some folks to reciprocate that attitude around here.

 

I would love a "Rigor Thread" to keep me form feeling like I am living under the old mossy rock of home schooling. :001_smile:

[lllll]

...

[chepyl]

I feel like we have rigorous academic standards, I just don't do school 6 hours a day. My son is kindergarten age doing 2nd - 3rd grade work. I don't want him doing algebra in 4th grade. If I did an hour of math a day (we would both go insane) and we would go through two grade levels a year. I want him to really get it. We do two lessons/exercises a day. It takes 20 min max. We do the same with grammar.

 

Rigorous does not have to equal time. Especially in lower grades. When we finish seat work, there is lots of time for legos, painting, drawing, creative writing, and yes.....video games (some educational, some just fun). He works hard so he can play hard.

[swellmomma]

I look at what others are doing on this board and wouldn't say we are rigorous. However, I don't know any classical homeschoolers in my area, not saying they aren't here, I just don't know of any.

 

I would call us intentional. As we approach high school, we're gaining momentum in the rigor department.

 

 

:iagree: This is us too. Compared to many on this board we are slackers. Compared to the those hsing in the next town over we are rigorous. We are definitely picking up momentum as they kids get older. Even my oldest with his multiple LD and other issues is starting to grasp things allowing us to pick it up a bit. Makes me feel better for sure about the slow start we had in the younger grades, and that my ds8 has now.

[scrapbookbuzz]

Just a little laughter for your day: when I first read the title to this post, I had a couple of different thoughts right away. The first was, 'Maybe she meant 'trigger' threads.' Then I as I thought you maybe you really did mean 'rigor', I wondered why you were talking about RIGOR, as in rigor mortis! :tongue_smilie::lol::D

[laundrycrisis]

I am feeling better already - thank you hive ! :grouphug:

 

"Rigor" looks very different at our house due to the learning differences, but I do believe very much in challenging our kids every day. I want to bring them to the edge of what they can do and expand it a little each day. I want them to progress, even if it seems like baby steps. I think it is really important that they are making the effort and doing their best and increasing their stamina and skills each time they work. It really does matter to me to keep up with grade level work. I would love for them to exceed that. I am alarmed when people truly don't care that their kids are behind the public schools, and tell me that I should not worry about it either.

 

It will also look different here because I am an engineer, and I have never had any inclination toward history or literature. But I am trying. I am learning history along with our 8 yo. I have to admit that most of it is brand new information to me ! But I am making an honest effort here to give our kids a much better exposure to history than I ever had. I am also exploring good children's literature for the first time. The books used in WWE are great suggestions for read-alouds with the kids. I am also exploring some of the classics for my own reading. I am a long way from having any interest in "literature analysis" but I will encourage them to read and think about good books. We are exploring languages, including Latin, which is also new to me. And they are both getting a better music education at a younger age than I did.

 

My own inclination is in the areas of math and science. I want to give them much more math by the end of high school that I had. In fact I have hopes of taking them through all the undergrad math subjects. IMO it is not that hard and there is no reason a high school age student can't do it. I also don't want them to have any fear of chemistry and physics, and to at least enjoy reading about biology as an area of interest, if not formal study. DH is also a STEM person. So rigor here may look less classical and more STEM-oriented, unless one of them has a strong preference for the classical. But I do want them to at least be exposed and have some knowledge of the classical areas.

 

I do not understand the logic of those who believe that kids should only have to follow their passions and not be required to work hard at anything unless they choose to. I believe that learning to work hard, even when you don't feel particularly inspired, is a skill that enables a person to follow their passions, and actually follow through on them, later. A lot of people are great at starting to chase a passion, but when it gets tough, they bail because this new thing is too hard. Also if a child grows up to have an interest in an area that requires a high level of academic skill, I don't want them to think it is out of the realm of possibility for them because it is too hard. I want them to learn that they can tackle hard things and be successful at them. I think that those who reach adulthood without having learned to work hard at anything are at a disadvantage. It is also a disadvantage for a person to not have much confidence in his or her mental abilities. I think that starting the teen years academically behind would probably be a huge blow to many kids' confidence. It is not something I would want to risk.

 

I also wonder about the statistics. I have encountered quite a few very relaxed homeschoolers who bring up the statistics that homeschoolers outperform public school students on standardized tests and college entrance exams. They are very confident that their kids can basically do what they want and somehow still end up ahead. I believe this data is perhaps a little old, and I wonder if it would still be true today if someone were to do a study using a random sampling of homeschoolers. I find it hard to believe that the same people who say that being at grade level "doesn't matter", whose kids are not specifically working on basic skills, will have students who outperform public school students. Some of these kids are very behind and the parents do not see a need to work on things. I can see how the gifted kids can learn these skills without much focus on them, and test very well, and I understand why parents of gifted kids may choose not to put much focus on practicing these skills with a child who doesn't need the practice and would be bored by it. But a lot of kids do need specific practice to learn these skills, and their parents are operating with the idea that these things will eventually be learned simply by "exposure", with no real effort. I end up wondering how long it will be before there is a new set of statistics that incorporate the kids whose parents choose not to be concerned about academic progress. Right now, homeschooling overall looks pretty good on paper. How long can that last if it is trendy to not do academics and more and more new homeschoolers are buying into that ?

Edited February 1, 2012 by laundrycrisis

[Bang!Zoom!]

Here is a thought of the day for ya'll:

 

From the moment they awake they devote themselves to the perfection of whatever they pursue.

 

I'd agree it's good to have this bonding among mindsets as a open topic. It helps people connect, make friends, receive support and not feel so alone.

 

Hopefully some good friendships can be created which would not have if it wasn't brought up.

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

"Rigor" looks very different at our house due to the learning differences, but I do believe very much in challenging our kids every day. I want to bring them to the edge of what they can do and expand it a little each day. I want them to progress, even if it seems like baby steps. I think it is really important that they are making the effort and doing their best and increasing their stamina and skills each time they work. It really does matter to me to keep up with grade level work. I would love for them to exceed that.

 

This is exactly how I feel. I want the kids to do work that challenges them and expands their horizons and sets high expectations for them. In many different ways over the almost 43 years of my life, I've discovered that people are capable of amazing things when it is expected of them- either by themselves or by others.

 

Around here, this often looks like baby steps, but if I take some of their work from this week, and compare to work from this time last year, I can see the progress they've made.

 

I constantly wish I had had an education like the one my kids are getting. College would have been a very different experience if I'd known half the things these kids already know. And I was in gifted programs.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

....I have no intention of "taking away my children's childhood" ;) ......

 

LOL That one always leaves me wondering how to respond.

 

Part of me is :001_huh:? Another part is tempted to start a conversation about the history and culture of childhood.

 

I am encouraged by many of you who do post, and appreciate having you all to "look up to" in our homeschooling journey. I also know I won't wake up one day with a logic or rhetoric student of that level without a strong foundation in the grammar stage. So, we press on. Thanks to many of you that set and keep the bar at a level that many of us aspire to in our homeschools. :grouphug:

:iagree:

 

Well said.

[laundrycrisis]

Here is a thought of the day for ya'll:

 

From the moment they awake they devote themselves to the perfection of whatever they pursue.

 

I'd agree it's good to have this bonding among mindsets as a open topic. It helps people connect, make friends, receive support and not feel so alone.

 

Hopefully some good friendships can be created which would not have if it wasn't brought up.

 

I love that quote. Where is it from ?

[Georgiana Daniels]

I haven't seen any threads on rigor/academic standards in homeschooling lately. I miss reading them but don't feel qualified to start one myself ! :tongue_smilie: But I will say that when I feel like a lost, lonely misfit in the world of homeschooling, I dig up those threads and read them. Those are where I find my alignment and my inspiration to keep reaching for more. Reading those helps me to ignore the siren song that I sometimes feel surrounded by. When I need to retreat from what feels almost like peer pressure to do less, it helps to read encouragement from those who make the case for doing more. Thank you especially to those who have shared these thoughts. :)

 

I would like to sign up for a service that sends a daily email encouraging an academic focus for homeschooling. Does anyone want to provide that ? :lol:

 

Okay, in all seriousness....I struggle with feeling like a rarity for wanting to have an academic focus, for caring about the kids being at least at grade level, etc. I'm uncomfortable with feeling that perhaps this is a rare thing among homeschoolers now. I do my best not to think critical thoughts about others and to worry only about my own business. I care about where our kids are academically. This seems to qualify me as an oddball. :confused: Is anyone else having this experience ?

 

Considering it's 9:30 and we haven't started school yet, I'm not qualified either :D

 

I LOVE rigor threads because they provide me with motivation and challenge me to be a better teacher. At the moment, seeing as how I'm online with a cup of coffee in hand, puttering through the morning--I really need one!

[swellmomma]

Considering it's 9:30 and we haven't started school yet, I'm not qualified either :D

 

I LOVE rigor threads because they provide me with motivation and challenge me to be a better teacher. At the moment, seeing as how I'm online with a cup of coffee in hand, puttering through the morning--I really need one!

 

 

Hey it is 930 am here too, and not only have we not started school yet I have not evern woken the children up yet today. We are rigorous in our own way, and that does not include starting school before 11 am.

[sagira]

This is exactly how I feel. I want the kids to do work that challenges them and expands their horizons and sets high expectations for them. In many different ways over the almost 43 years of my life, I've discovered that people are capable of amazing things when it is expected of them- either by themselves or by others.

 

Around here, this often looks like baby steps, but if I take some of their work from this week, and compare to work from this time last year, I can see the progress they've made.

 

Amen.

 

Dh calls it being "ultimate" as in "Ultimate Ds" and "Ultimate Dd". If you are writing, do the best writing you can. If you are dancing, dance the best you can. If you are cleaning, do the best you can. And so forth.

 

I feel like I'm too strict sometimes if I compare myself to some other homeschoolers I know. OTOH, I feel it's right and I'm only doing what I know (grew up in a Dutch educational system where excellence was expected).

I appreciate this thread.

Edited February 1, 2012 by sagira

[Bang!Zoom!]

I love that quote. Where is it from ?

 

The Last Samurai - The movie.

 

Instead of sticks, we use books and *Great Things* lol

 

flash forward to moment: 1:41

 

 

[Allearia]

Thank you, definitely in need of one of these right now! We are just finishing a period where I was working almost full time from home so not much school was done except some online classes and programs, educational videos, and reading. We are back to a pretty full schedule and I am motivated but it would be so easy to slip back into the previous mode, "just go do your fun computer math and watch a video about Jamestown." there are surprisingly some relatively rigorous families in our area but mostly people look at me like I have two heads and am locking my children up. (I made a video of them playing at the beach because my I laws kept asking my older son if I was making him study - this is a subject he is passionate about and chose, I actually tried to get him to quit because it is so much work but he loves it.) so hearing from other people who don't think watching tv and cooking are a sufficient education. They don't always love everything so sometimes I am making them do things they don't want to do - but I trust myself by now to know when to back off, know when to take a break to just play, know when to go to other activities that are great in other ways, that I don't want to defend my desire for them to also have strong academics.

 

I want to make it clear that I don't judge if other families have other priorities, other learning needs, etc. which always seems to happen in these threads. But on a board supporting classical education I love support and discussion for people following this path.

[Plucky]

There comes a time when you stop caring what other homeschoolers are doing. It doesn't matter what curriculum, style, method, etc. they use. You use what you need to use for your kids and spend the time needed for each. I cringe at the word rigor because it is so vague. It can intimidate, comfort, isolate, make one feel superior, but it is rarely definable except in an independent way.

 

Also, it seems like rigor is not so much discussed as others' lack of rigor. I don't have the time or energy to worry about other people's kids. My kids see that other families do things differently than we do. Oh, well. What another family does isn't going to change our methods, unless there is a definable reason.

 

For me, and I hope I don't offend anyone, comparing ourselves actually is a distraction. :001_smile:

[Bang!Zoom!]

I

will

not

touch

this

keyboard

 

(repeat)

 

I

will

not

touch

this

keyboard

 

(repeat)

 

lol

[Audrey]

I care about the academics. It's the only real reason we homeschool. I just don't participate in the rigour threads because those seem to be far less about actual academics than bragging about what an amazing hard-a$$ people are on their uber-genius kids.

 

I just have a regular-smart kid and an average workload. It's excellent stuff and he gets a lot of instruction to foster excellent academics, but I'm not so into the whole "draconian is a badge of honour" thing.

[Audrey]

There comes a time when you stop caring what other homeschoolers are doing. It doesn't matter what curriculum, style, method, etc. they use. You use what you need to use for your kids and spend the time needed for each. I cringe at the word rigor because it is so vague. It can intimidate, comfort, isolate, make one feel superior, but it is rarely definable except in an independent way.

 

Also, it seems like rigor is not so much discussed as others' lack of rigor. I don't have the time or energy to worry about other people's kids. My kids see that other families do things differently than we do. Oh, well. What another family does isn't going to change our methods, unless there is a definable reason.

 

For me, and I hope I don't offend anyone, comparing ourselves actually is a distraction. :001_smile:

 

 

Oh. Now see... you've just said it so much nicer than me. ;)

[Plucky]

I

will

not

touch

this

keyboard

 

(repeat)

 

I

will

not

touch

this

keyboard

 

(repeat)

 

lol

 

:lol::lol::lol: You can set me straight I don't care. :001_smile:

[Halcyon]

Boys are doing some independent work so I have a moment to myself :D

 

I wanted to give an example of how rigor and attention to detail has benefitted my older son. He had a couple of areas that benefitted from increases attention over the last couple of years (well, more than a couple, but I'll focus on one here). Writing--he was a reluctant writer--not _terribly_ reluctant, but it wasn't his first love, by any means. Every day we did WWE, without fail. His dictation was...um...not good at first. For quite a while, in fact (we started with WWE2 in 3rd grade). And it was hard: hard for him and hard for me. I sometimes wondered whether we would ever have a breakthrough. I often had to read dictations more than 3 times. Many more. And he often had to read the passages more than once to understand what was happening. It was slow going. I occasionally freaked and added in other writing curricula like Writing Strands (blech) because I got nervous. Jump to today: he just began WWS and the change in his writing is so amazing. Not only has he improved, but he has begun to take real ownership in his writing, and have a style. He rarely makes grammatical mistakes, and his sentence structure is improving all the time. I attribute this not only to WWE, but to a daily diet of small doses of grammar, vocab and spelling as well as daily read-alouds of high quality literature.

 

The improvement can only be seen when I look back at how he was writing a year ago, two years ago. I believe a daily, focused effort that expected the very best of his ability at all moments has truly helped my son academically.

[laundrycrisis]

Also, it seems like rigor is not so much discussed as others' lack of rigor.

 

If I ran into "lack of rigor" once in a while, it would barely make my radar. Not my problem. It does get to me though, because it seems to be the status quo among most homeschoolers I meet. I am quickly the oddball getting unsoliticed advice about "relaxing" and "letting go" after revealing that I actually make our kids do schoolwork and want them to be at least on grade level.

 

I think it may be true that many of the more rigorous folks are not out at the homeschooling activities - they are home doing school, so I am not meeting them. I am trying for a balance...we get our school done and then go do other things. So we are doing both. But it's rare for me to meet anyone IRL who does the school part very seriously.

[laundrycrisis]

I care about the academics. It's the only real reason we homeschool. I just don't participate in the rigour threads because those seem to be far less about actual academics than bragging about what an amazing hard-a$$ people are on their uber-genius kids.

 

I just have a regular-smart kid and an average workload. It's excellent stuff and he gets a lot of instruction to foster excellent academics, but I'm not so into the whole "draconian is a badge of honour" thing.

 

If someone doesn't want to call it rigour, or be competitive about how many hours or the difficulty level etc, I'm happy to call it something else...but it really helps to connect with others who do the schoolwork, at whatever level their child can handle, who think it's important, and who care about academic progress.

[Plucky]

If I ran into "lack of rigor" once in a while, it would barely make my radar. Not my problem. It does get to me though, because it seems to be the status quo among most homeschoolers I meet. I am quickly the oddball getting unsoliticed advice about "relaxing" and "letting go" after revealing that I actually make our kids do schoolwork and want them to be at least on grade level.

 

I think it may be true that many of the more rigorous folks are not out at the homeschooling activities - they are home doing school, so I am not meeting them. I am trying for a balance...we get our school done and then go do other things. So we are doing both. But it's rare for me to meet anyone IRL who does the school part very seriously.

 

But for kids your ages their parents may not think they need more than a few hours a day of academics. What I called relaxed through most of my kids' school years was more rigorous than others.

 

I don't discuss curriculum much with other hs moms. Some would be over competitive and others would just dislike my choices. :)

 

The one thing that is always, always guaranteed is that homeschoolers are very opinionated.

[Bang!Zoom!]

My personal example probably wouldn't benefit anyone, I hover (word of the day) between two or maybe even three worlds because of our situation. I don't think there is anyone on this board that works in the same framework as we do as a family.

 

I share commonalities with all three worlds; but we do -simply because of the recipe involved - have challenges we solve alone on this issue and it happens every.single.day.no.matter.what.we.do.

 

I'll spare you my examples and whining, the past (even in as far back as five minutes ago) is dead, and I don't live there anymore. Kinda a motto for me, otherwise, I'd fall to pieces and be punching people on the open street...:lol:

 

But to the topic at hand, there is I believe, a distinct and palpable shyness to discussion of what "rigor" consists of. I think there are a lot of stereotypes out there, and a lot of moms/educators who just shut up about it because of the pressure and snark that's sometimes so thoughtlessly thrown about without truly appreciating the emotional pain it can create.

 

So, ya..one hand says it's nobody else's business what goes on, yet the other says the power of discrimination that sets in due to personal disagreement or hasty judgement does a great disservice to families and children who would benefit from connection from open conversations.

 

The benefits of families connecting and sharing ideas with whatever their level of "rigor" is and comfortably works in their family is truly precious.

 

Fear of judgement can stop that from happening.

[Plucky]

My personal example probably wouldn't benefit anyone, I hover (word of the day) between two or maybe even three worlds because of our situation. I don't think there is anyone on this board that works in the same framework as we do as a family.

 

I share commonalities with all three worlds; but we do -simply because of the recipe involved - have challenges we solve alone on this issue and it happens every.single.day.no.matter.what.we.do.

 

I'll spare you my examples and whining, the past (even in as far back as five minutes ago) is dead, and I don't live there anymore. Kinda a motto for me, otherwise, I'd fall to pieces and be punching people on the open street...:lol:

 

But to the topic at hand, there is I believe, a distinct and palpable shyness to discussion of what "rigor" consists of. I think there are a lot of stereotypes out there, and a lot of moms/educators who just shut up about it because of the pressure and snark that's sometimes so thoughtlessly thrown about without truly appreciating the emotional pain it can create.

 

So, ya..one hand says it's nobody else's business what goes on, yet the other says the power of discrimination that sets in due to personal disagreement or hasty judgement does a great disservice to families and children who would benefit from connection from open conversations.

 

The benefits of families connecting and sharing ideas with whatever their level of "rigor" is and comfortably works in their family is truly precious.

 

Fear of judgement can stop that from happening.

 

Are you saying you feel judged in real life by homeschoolers or on the board? I think you are trying to be nice and careful with your words, but I'm not sure I understand.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

My personal example probably wouldn't benefit anyone, I hover (word of the day) between two or maybe even three worlds because of our situation. I don't think there is anyone on this board that works in the same framework as we do as a family.

 

I share commonalities with all three worlds; but we do -simply because of the recipe involved - have challenges we solve alone on this issue and it happens every.single.day.no.matter.what.we.do.

 

I'll spare you my examples and whining, the past (even in as far back as five minutes ago) is dead, and I don't live there anymore. Kinda a motto for me, otherwise, I'd fall to pieces and be punching people on the open street...:lol:

 

But to the topic at hand, there is I believe, a distinct and palpable shyness to discussion of what "rigor" consists of. I think there are a lot of stereotypes out there, and a lot of moms/educators who just shut up about it because of the pressure and snark that's sometimes so thoughtlessly thrown about without truly appreciating the emotional pain it can create.

 

So, ya..one hand says it's nobody else's business what goes on, yet the other says the power of discrimination that sets in due to personal disagreement or hasty judgement does a great disservice to families and children who would benefit from connection from open conversations.

 

The benefits of families connecting and sharing ideas with whatever their level of "rigor" is and comfortably works in their family is truly precious.

 

Fear of judgement can stop that from happening.

 

I have read this three times and I still don't quite get your point, one*mom. If you have a moment, can you make your point again with fewer words?

 

(This is not the first post I've struggled with today so it is obviously my problem, but I would appreciate it if you would clarify.)

[Lang Syne Boardie]

...I believe a daily, focused effort that expected the very best of his ability at all moments has truly helped my son academically.

 

If this is the new working definition of 'rigor' I am entirely on board. Well said.

[Bang!Zoom!]

Ya, I'm pussyfooting around because this is (as a topic) an atom bomb for me as a mother, I have to deal with it with graciousness every single day.

[Colleen in NS]

I haven't seen any threads on rigor/academic standards in homeschooling lately. I miss reading them but don't feel qualified to start one myself ! :tongue_smilie:

 

haha, I think you just started one, anyway! You go, girl! Loved your longer post downthread from your OP. :D

 

Okay, in all seriousness....I struggle with feeling like a rarity for wanting to have an academic focus, for caring about the kids being at least at grade level, etc. I'm uncomfortable with feeling that perhaps this is a rare thing among homeschoolers now. I do my best not to think critical thoughts about others and to worry only about my own business. I care about where our kids are academically. This seems to qualify me as an oddball. :confused: Is anyone else having this experience ?

 

Yes, I had it for many years. For years, I have had several friends around here who homeschool, and I felt silly around many of them when I first started to go in a more intentional-classical direction. But because we were friends first, it became a non-issue - we just focused on our friendships and what we did have in common (love for our kids, love for books, love for cool toys and games, love for thrifting, whatever). It has been these forums that have kept me going all these years with a more rigourous/classical/intentional/choose-your-adjective way of schooling. I have a list of my favourite posters, some of whom don't post much anymore. I'd just reread their posts if I need some inspiration again. Or peek into great threads like this one. :D

 

You might be a rarity right now in your area, but you've got the forums. :D You also might discover, if you keep your eyes peeled open, that there might be other homeschoolers in your area who do feel the way you do - they might just be being quiet about it in the face of the ones telling them to relax. I started to find this out last spring, when I finally decided, out of the desperation of wanting to talk with Moms IRL about my educational passions, to advertise for and to start a support group for classically-educating Moms. I honestly thought I might get one or two interested people. I received at least 15 e-mails in the first couple of weeks after advertising - I was in shock! So I started planning for a year's worth of (monthly - I can't do more often) meetings, and now there is a core group of Moms who really seem interested in what the meetings are all about. There is one Mom who thanks me every month, and I feel like saying, "No, thank YOU for coming and being interested in talking about educating this way!" :lol: I've met some Moms who GET IT when I rave on about how fun grammar can be. :D They get it when I talk about how I finally understood that many subjects can be studied and grasped in a patterned way (I never learned this in school). It's not *just* about enjoying grammar - it's about knowing that I can learn, and I can teach my kids how to learn. I finally understand what "learn how to learn" means, even though I'd read it in homeschool books years ago and didn't really understand what it meant. I understand now that it's very practical. But if I'm going to teach my kids how to learn, we need to put some time into it. Same as if I'm going to teach them how to shower/cook/do their laundry/manage their finances/brush their teeth/etc.

 

We are first year home schoolers in a community with many home school families. I cannot begin to tell you how many times I hear (literally...out loud), "Wait until next year and you relax. You'll see that they don't need to be doing 'school' stuff all the time." ...I actually have people tell me that they would love to do some things with me and my kids next year when we "calm down".

 

The thing is, you might relax on *some* things as you learn how to teach things, learn to teach more efficiently, learn what works for which kid and what doesn't, or decide some subjects/texts overlap others and could be tossed. BUT. I've also discovered that even though this "relaxing" has happened to us, the *time* still gets filled up as kids get older. Grammar study takes us more time now, writing study takes more time, Latin (if a foreign language is studied in your homeschool) takes more time, math takes more time, etc.. So, for us, some subjects expanded, while others caved in or were pitched altogether for particular reasons. Reading still takes the same amount of time, because I require *time spent* rather than *quantity of books read.* But, not as many books are read as when the kids were younger, because the books are longer and more involved.

 

The next time someone makes those comments to you, just think to yourself, "Of course my kids don't need to be doing 'school stuff' all the time - and they don't! They also eat, sleep, do chores, exercise, work on hobbies, visit with friends/family, etc." Just don't say it aloud - you don't need to justify your family decisions. And maybe those people who want to wait til next year to do something with your family could invite you over for supper some evening - why wait til next year? Why does it have to be a planned activity during the weekday? (I'm not asking you this, it would just be something I'd be wondering about)

Edited February 1, 2012 by Colleen in NS

[Crimson Wife]

Just sit there and smile politely when you hear the other HS moms waxing rhapsodically about a program you consider to be decidedly lacking when it comes to content. Let them think you're a weirdo for using the curricula that you do. Bean dip, anyone? :D

[Jane in NC]

I cringe at the word rigor because it is so vague. It can intimidate, comfort, isolate, make one feel superior, but it is rarely definable except in an independent way.

 

Also, it seems like rigor is not so much discussed as others' lack of rigor.

 

If someone doesn't want to call it rigour, or be competitive about how many hours or the difficulty level etc, I'm happy to call it something else...but it really helps to connect with others who do the schoolwork, at whatever level their child can handle, who think it's important, and who care about academic progress.

 

Having participated in many of these discussions over the years, I have witnessed many knotted knickers. When I state that my son studied this or read that, I am not stating that every child in the universe needs to subscribe to our program. And yet inevitably we see people raise objections that Calculus is Not for Every Student (a true statement) or that their teen gave up on Moby Dick. Fine. But by stating that my son pronounced Moby Dick to be one of the best books he has ever read am I condemning those homeschoolers who choose not to read Melville? I don't think so and yet somehow insecurities rear their ugly heads.

 

Perhaps I am naive. I have not seen the finger pointing that True Blue asserts. Granted, I start with my premises of what makes a Well Trained Mind. Other posters have their own ideas. These discussions have merit not only to help me see beyond my premises, but they helped me cater to the needs of my son. As homeschoolers, we have the luxury to adapt to our student's interests. These discussions shed light and offer rabbit trails. I found them to be helpful--assuming they do not deteriorate.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Hilltop Academy

[Sweetpeach]

I care about the academics. It's the only real reason we homeschool. I just don't participate in the rigour threads because those seem to be far less about actual academics than bragging about what an amazing hard-a$$ people are on their uber-genius kids.

 

I just have a regular-smart kid and an average workload. It's excellent stuff and he gets a lot of instruction to foster excellent academics, but I'm not so into the whole "draconian is a badge of honour" thing.

 

Yes. Yes, indeed.

I couldn't agree more. I have average kids who do average work who need to be pushed from time to time. I'm trying to push/pull/engage/come alongside in ways that make sense for our family, for my personality and for their age/stage/interests. I think academics are important in the same way that I think competitive sport is important as well as community and social life and spiritual development and how to enjoy a good book, how to relax, how to self-sustain when the going gets tough. Life Stuff. All important and none more or less so than the other. I want to raise balanced, happy children who go off into the real world with their emotional tanks full enough to take on relationships, friendships, university, jobs, life. Draconian is not something I've ever aspired to.

T

[GWOB]

I've been thinking about this all morning. Perhaps some of the rebellion against "rigor" we see in many homeschoolers has a little bit to do with a general rebellion against societal expectations. We're homeschoolers. We're kinda rebellious by nature:tongue_smilie:. Maybe some parents equate rigorous academics with monetary success. Relaxed homeschoolers may look upon academic-focused hsers as snotty, presumptuous, and driven my a desire to not only succeed, but excel. I'm just rambling here, and I reserve the right to be completely wrong. I'm just trying to see the other side.

 

I do consider myself an academic homeschooler. That is our focus. My kids will not fall behind. They will be challenged on a daily basis. Obviously this will look a lot differently in someone else's home, but I am only teaching my kids. Yes, it does bug the ever-loving snot out of me when I see a 7th grader who cannot spell simple color words and reads at a 2nd grade level. Yes, I get dirty looks when I tell people what we are doing. Oh well. I will do my thing and they can do their thing.

 

Homeschooling comes in many different forms. No two homeschoolers are exactly alike.i do understand that many of us here feel like drill sergeants around most homeschoolers. That's ok. We just need to keep plugging along and know we are doing the best job we possibly can for our own kids.

[-M-]

Five years ago next month, I participated in a WTM thread about rigor --more specifically, the lack thereof -- among the homeschooling "community." My response included the following admission:

There's a word or two, probably not terribly kind, for people like me, but I'll risk hearing the criticism again. Here goes: One of the reasons I homeschool is that I'm not terribly interested in what everyone else is doing -- how woefully underprepared Suzy Homeschool's kids are, how inarticulate Peggy Publicschool's kids are, etc.

 

Really. Not. Interested.

Conversely, I'm really. not. interested. in comparative rigor, either. There comes a point when you simply have neither the time nor inclination to defend your choices, be they (seemingly) more or less rigorous than someone else's. You just do what you need to do.

 

(I think Audrey and TrueBlue more civilly expressed my own reasons for avoiding such threads.)

___________________________

 

If you seek inspiration, consider the wonderful Marva Collins:

Many of us can be excellent for a day, but we find a lifetime of excellence to be just a bit difficult. Good teachers leave their egos and problems at the door each morning. They become so immersed in the children they teach that they forget time, problems, who they are, or what they can't do. They believe that they exist for their students. They hear with their hearts, they see with their souls, and they teach with their conscience.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Mental multivitamin
To delete the hyperlink

[-M-]

Parker J. Palmer also defined the essence of teaching well:

Good teachers possess a capacity for connectedness. They are able to weave a complex web of connections among themselves, their subjects, and their students so that students can learn to weave a world for themselves. The methods used by these weavers vary widely: Socratic dialogues, laboratory experiments, collaborative problem solving, creative chaos. The connections made by good teachers are not in their methods but in their hearts -- meaning heart in its ancient sense, as the place where intellect and emotion and spirit and will converge in the human self.

[-M-]

Joseph Epstein on the subject of excellence:

High standards generally — about workmanship in the creation of objects, about what is owed in friendship, about the quality of art, and much else — far from being snobbish, are required to maintain decency in life. When the people who value these things are called snobs, the word is usually being used in a purely sour-grapes way. 'Elitist,' a politically super-charged word, is almost invariably another sour-grapes word, at least when used to denigrate people who insist on a high standard... Delight in excellence is easily confused with snobbery by the ignorant.