hana Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 We all need to think about what we believe is upright and moral and then VOW to act properly when/if ever faced with such a situation. Doing what you believe is RIGHT even when it is really really difficult is called integrity. Right, but we don't all need to "act properly" according to what YOU believe is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted January 29, 2012 Author Share Posted January 29, 2012 I agree with you, Scarlett. It would be awful. I would go crazy. But when I married DH, I put no qualifiers on my vow. He is it for me. He is it for me even if he dies. He is it for me even if he is in a terrible accident and isn't himself anymore. He is it for me even if he is in a vegetative state. I'll take care of him no matter who he is. I have to agree with Scarlett. I am astounded that she and I are the only ones that feel this way...or there are people not responding because there is such a response for the opposite. I will say, I didn't feel disgusted per say, just sad. Thank you both! And maybe disgusted is not quite the right word...indignant maybe? And yes very sad for her Xhusband. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5kidsforME Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 I agree with you, Scarlett. It would be awful. I would go crazy. But when I married DH, I put no qualifiers on my vow. He is it for me. He is it for me even if he dies. He is it for me even if he is in a terrible accident and isn't himself anymore. He is it for me even if he is in a vegetative state. I'll take care of him no matter who he is. Amen and amen and amen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted January 29, 2012 Author Share Posted January 29, 2012 FTR, I don't want my dh to 'find love' (read: commit adultery) while I am still alive. I want him to honor his vow to me, made before God and our children. And sure I haven't lived in her situation. But you know what? We all need to think about what we believe is upright and moral and then VOW to act properly when/if ever faced with such a situation. Doing what you believe is RIGHT even when it is really really difficult is called integrity. Right, but we don't all need to "act properly" according to what YOU believe is right. Please note my my comment that you quoted above was in response to kipipt's comment below that SHE could not see herself doing it but that we don't know what we would do if placed in that situation. If you think it is ok to divorce your mate because he has changed more than you like, then that is your business, but I am also free to think it is horrible. I am sure that 8-9 years ago, this lady felt similar. Most people I know say they would want their spouses to find love but that they could not see doing it themselves. I feel similar- like I could never do it emotionally. But what you and I have in common is that we have not lived 7 years in this situation. This woman did and it undoubtedly was not an easy thing for her to come to or something that she did lightly or to be unloving. I personally don't think that we know what we will do till we get there and the vast majority of us will never be in this situation. It is easier to judge this than it is to live it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sputterduck Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 I don't want to address the situation in the article directly. I'm not done digesting it in my head. But my grandma nursed my grandpa for 30 years. She married a whole, healthy man. Then when two of her kids were little and my dad was in college, he got sick and became a quadriplegic. She wasn't the greatest person in world, as she had some major personality issues, but she was an amazing wife. Personally, I want to be *that* kind of wife. It's not about my happiness. It's about a commitment, a life-long loving commitment. And I won't get married until I mean that kind of commitment by my vows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 FTR, I don't want my dh to 'find love' (read: commit adultery) while I am still alive. I want him to honor his vow to me, made before God and our children. And sure I haven't lived in her situation. But you know what? We all need to think about what we believe is upright and moral and then VOW to act properly when/if ever faced with such a situation. Doing what you believe is RIGHT even when it is really really difficult is called integrity. Frankly, I personally don't consider it loving or moral to expect my 32 year old husband to have me die mentally and never have a loving intimate relationship again- intellectually or physically. I would not want him to go though life alone. I love him too much to want that for him. I know he would do the right thing when it came to my care and I know it would not be a fast or easy decision for him. Still, I would hope to spare him some of the pain of life alone like that by telling him now, while I can, that it would be understandable and acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chepyl Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 I said before, it is not a decision I would make, but it Is not our place to judge them. There are many lifestyles that I don't agree with or would not chose for myself, but I will not call someone disgusting for their choices. No one has been hurt, they are not asking you to do the same. People do what is right for them, if it works and they are happy and everyone is well cared for, leave them to their choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted January 29, 2012 Author Share Posted January 29, 2012 Frankly, I personally don't consider it loving or moral to expect my 32 year old husband to have me die mentally and never have a loving intimate relationship again- intellectually or physically. I would not want him to go though life alone. I love him too much to want that for him. I know he would do the right thing when it came to my care and I know it would not be a fast or easy decision for him. Still, I would hope to spare him some of the pain of life alone like that by telling him now, while I can, that it would be understandable and acceptable. Having a loving, intimate relationship is not a right that supercedes the rights of others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted January 29, 2012 Author Share Posted January 29, 2012 I said before, it is not a decision I would make, but it Is not our place to judge them. There are many lifestyles that I don't agree with or would not chose for myself, but I will not call someone disgusting for their choices. No one has been hurt, they are not asking you to do the same. People do what is right for them, if it works and they are happy and everyone is well cared for, leave them to their choice. The word judging gets thrown around alot in these types of discussions. I don't feel like I am judging. Because I believe in the Bible and in the sanctity of marriage, I believe the standard is already set. Saying a standard has been violated is not judging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted January 29, 2012 Author Share Posted January 29, 2012 I don't want to address the situation in the article directly. I'm not done digesting it in my head. But my grandma nursed my grandpa for 30 years. She married a whole, healthy man. Then when two of her kids were little and my dad was in college, he got sick and became a quadriplegic. She wasn't the greatest person in world, as she had some major personality issues, but she was an amazing wife. Personally, I want to be *that* kind of wife. It's not about my happiness. It's about a commitment, a life-long loving commitment. And I won't get married until I mean that kind of commitment by my vows. Yes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5kidsforME Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 I don't want to address the situation in the article directly. I'm not done digesting it in my head. But my grandma nursed my grandpa for 30 years. She married a whole, healthy man. Then when two of her kids were little and my dad was in college, he got sick and became a quadriplegic. She wasn't the greatest person in world, as she had some major personality issues, but she was an amazing wife. Personally, I want to be *that* kind of wife. It's not about my happiness. It's about a commitment, a life-long loving commitment. And I won't get married until I mean that kind of commitment by my vows. Yes!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5kidsforME Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 The word judging gets thrown around alot in these types of discussions. I don't feel like I am judging. Because I believe in the Bible and in the sanctity of marriage, I believe the standard is already set. Saying a standard has been violated is not judging. I agree. I love how when someone doesn't like someone elses opinion on things or beliefs its passed off as 'judging'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanaryMelody Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 I agree with you, Scarlett. It would be awful. I would go crazy. But when I married DH, I put no qualifiers on my vow. He is it for me. He is it for me even if he dies. He is it for me even if he is in a terrible accident and isn't himself anymore. He is it for me even if he is in a vegetative state. I'll take care of him no matter who he is. :iagree: My DH and I are both in agreement. We made a covenant before God to care for each other "till death do you part". Alzheimer, vegetative states, and such are not death. And like Kristen, I'll take care of DH no matter who he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Having a loving, intimate relationship is not a right that supercedes the rights of others. The rights of what others? No one has rights to my marriage except me and my husband. If a couple have a different take on the situation than you and have a mutual understanding that it is sad but ultimately acceptable, exactly whose rights are being infringed? I love my husband enough to want his happiness in the face of tragedy, period. I personally consider that, in the confines of my own marriage, more moral and true to the our love than "you can only ever be with me, period." For me it boils down to not considering only the death of the body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 The word judging gets thrown around alot in these types of discussions. I don't feel like I am judging. Because I believe in the Bible and in the sanctity of marriage, I believe the standard is already set. Saying a standard has been violated is not judging. You are viewing this through your morality. Her faith, morality, and marriage vows were not discussed in the article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted January 29, 2012 Author Share Posted January 29, 2012 You are viewing this through your morality. Her faith, morality, and marriage vows were not discussed in the article. Very true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 The word judging gets thrown around alot in these types of discussions. I don't feel like I am judging. Because I believe in the Bible and in the sanctity of marriage, I believe the standard is already set. Saying a standard has been violated is not judging. But is it your place to judge for marriages other than your own, which may or may not be based on ANY of the same religious precepts as yours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Absolutely. We want each other to have full and complete lives. :iagree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Peach Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 I think when it comes down to it, none of us knows what we would do if we were in that situation. Not really. It is very easy to sit back and make the determination that we would never do this or that, until the time comes when, God forbid, the situation becomes reality. I had a situation in my own family, where my mom's cousin, a mom with 4 kids, was in a car accident that left her mentally incapacitated. She is unable to speak, walk, feed herself, dress herself, etc. She has been in a nursing home ever since. This was 25 years ago. Her husband divorced her, moved on and remarried. His kids supported him and they are very close. But it left a severe rift in the family; people chose sides. I wish everyone had just supported them and loved them. I think the husband and the kids had been through enough. What good is judging them going to do?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted January 29, 2012 Author Share Posted January 29, 2012 The rights of what others? No one has rights to my marriage except me and my husband. If a couple have a different take on the situation than you and have a mutual understanding that it is sad but ultimately acceptable, exactly whose rights are being infringed? I love my husband enough to want his happiness in the face of tragedy, period. I personally consider that, in the confines of my own marriage, more moral and true to the our love than "you can only ever be with me, period." For me it boils down to not considering only the death of the body. I was talking about the right's of a disabled spouse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NASDAQ Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 I didn't take any death-do-us-part vows. Maybe she didn't either. If your point is divorce is never, ever okay under any circumstances, ever, I think you could have found better articles to make your point. This is certainly one of the more sympathetic divorce situations possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southernm Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 The rights of what others? No one has rights to my marriage except me and my husband. If a couple have a different take on the situation than you and have a mutual understanding that it is sad but ultimately acceptable, exactly whose rights are being infringed? I love my husband enough to want his happiness in the face of tragedy, period. I personally consider that, in the confines of my own marriage, more moral and true to the our love than "you can only ever be with me, period." For me it boils down to not considering only the death of the body. :iagree: out of all the comments I agree to this most. Also, not only would I want my husband to be happy, I'd also want my children to have the opportunity to have a female figure that could be there for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 I was talking about the right's of a disabled spouse. Rights springing from where? Do couples not have the right to have a different understanding than you and your spouse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted January 29, 2012 Author Share Posted January 29, 2012 I didn't take any death-do-us-part vows. Maybe she didn't either. If your point is divorce is never, ever okay under any circumstances, ever, I think you could have found better articles to make your point. This is certainly one of the more sympathetic divorce situations possible. My point is not that. My point is she abandoned her marriage vows when her now XH became tragically disabled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NASDAQ Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 My point is not that. My point is she abandoned her marriage vows when her now XH became tragically disabled. Well no. She divorced him. She may not have taken the same vows as you did. "Massive injury rendering spouse a near-vegetable" is probably on most people's short lists as an understandable reason to divorce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted January 29, 2012 Author Share Posted January 29, 2012 Rights springing from where? Do couples not have the right to have a different understanding than you and your spouse? The rights springing from a marriage contract that traditionally (and in many cases religiously) is suppose to make one feel that they can depend on their mate to care for them to the best of their ability no matter what. Sure. You and your mate are free to set up your own standards for your marriage. I won't be thinking it is ok. Shrug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justasque Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 I would be willing to be any part of this story, any person in it, and feel happy it could happen. They kind of glossed over the second husband's ex, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheres Toto Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 I was talking about the right's of a disabled spouse. I don't really see any evidence that the ex-husband's rights are being violated in any way. He's healthy, well taken care of and happy. He still gets to see his family, has made a new friend who takes him out to his favorite place. Things might even be better for him with the new circumstances since his ex-wife is probably healthier and happier than she would be after years of taking care of him without the support of a close, emotionally supportive relationship for her and her children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted January 29, 2012 Author Share Posted January 29, 2012 Well no. She divorced him. She may not have taken the same vows as you did. "Massive injury rendering spouse a near-vegetable" is probably on most people's short lists as an understandable reason to divorce. Clearly, shockingly to me, you are right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 The rights springing from a marriage contract that traditionally (and in many cases religiously) is suppose to make one feel that they can depend on their mate to care for them to the best of their ability no matter what. Sure. You and your mate are free to set up your own standards for your marriage. I won't be thinking it is ok. Shrug. What else would you have the lady in the story do in regards to caring for her xh? The man is loved, housed and cared for in a manner many disabled people only dream of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 FTR, I don't want my dh to 'find love' (read: commit adultery) while I am still alive. I want him to honor his vow to me, made before God and our children. And sure I haven't lived in her situation. But you know what? We all need to think about what we believe is upright and moral and then VOW to act properly when/if ever faced with such a situation. Doing what you believe is RIGHT even when it is really really difficult is called integrity. The word judging gets thrown around alot in these types of discussions. I don't feel like I am judging. Because I believe in the Bible and in the sanctity of marriage, I believe the standard is already set. Saying a standard has been violated is not judging. Calling it "disgusting" is putting a judgment on it. If you had said, "this feels wrong to me," instead of "this is disgusting," then people might have responded to you differently. "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another, commits adultery against her; and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery" (Mark 10:11-12). This applies to all divorced people who remarry, not just some. So, I think it probably feels a little strange to hear you insist upon a strict, conservative Biblical interpretation. I know people who have divorced for all sorts of legitimate reasons. It just is not *my* place to decide whether people are right or wrong to divorce and remarry under various circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted January 29, 2012 Author Share Posted January 29, 2012 They kind of glossed over the second husband's ex, though. Yeah, from this comment <<They had been good friends as kids, co-editors of the high school newspaper. He vowed to contact her the next time he was in Richmond to visit his mother. Six months later, he did. And soon after, with Allan in the midst of a divorce, they began talking regularly.>> It really makes me wonder if his divorce was caused by his 'reconnection' with his high school friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 (edited) I won't be thinking it is ok. Shrug. I won't be thinking it is ok to apply your personal standard to life situations you know nothing of. Edited January 29, 2012 by kijipt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommy22alyns Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 I just don't see a problem with the story. IMO, if it works for them and everyone's happy, who are we to judge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted January 29, 2012 Author Share Posted January 29, 2012 Calling it "disgusting" is putting a judgment on it. If you had said, "this feels wrong to me," instead of "this is disgusting," then people might have responded to you differently. Oh. I see. "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another, commits adultery against her; and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery" (Mark 10:11-12). This applies to all divorced people who remarry, not just some. So, I think it probably feels a little strange to hear you insist upon a strict, conservative Biblical interpretation. I know people who have divorced for all sorts of legitimate reasons. It just is not *my* place to decide whether people are right or wrong to divorce and remarry under various circumstances. I certainly didn't even feel I was addressing my 'strict conservative Biblical interpretation' in regards to this story. I felt it was universally believed to be wrong to divorce your husband because he becomes disabled so that you can marry another. Clearly I was wrong about how many/most people feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Yeah, from this comment <<They had been good friends as kids, co-editors of the high school newspaper. He vowed to contact her the next time he was in Richmond to visit his mother. Six months later, he did. And soon after, with Allan in the midst of a divorce, they began talking regularly.>> It really makes me wonder if his divorce was caused by his 'reconnection' with his high school friend. Now you are just reading things into the article to cast the woman and her new husband in a negative light. You have no information to base this on whatsoever. Unless you think there is no reason anyone anywhere ever should be allowed to get divorced and remarry (mutual or not) then I am puzzled. And if that is your understanding of it, you can't be shocked that many (moral and decent) people in 2012 disagree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted January 29, 2012 Author Share Posted January 29, 2012 I won't be thinking it is ok to apply your personal standard to life situations you know nothing of. I don't think I am doing that. But whatever. The details she shared in an interview are 'what I know of it'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Absolutely gobsmacked that you all think this is ok. Do your spouses know this about you? My husband told me he thinks it's nice and appropriate that she remarried. He indicated his approval of my doing likewise, should I want to. We do not believe remarriage after a divorce is adultery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted January 29, 2012 Author Share Posted January 29, 2012 Now you are just reading things into the article to cast the woman and her new husband in a negative light. You have no information to base this on whatsoever. Unless you think there is no reason anyone anywhere ever should be allowed to get divorced and remarry (mutual or not) then I am puzzled. And if that is your understanding of it, you can't be shocked that many (moral and decent) people in 2012 disagree with you. Well, I also wouldn't think it was 'ok' to begin dating someone else when 'in the midst of a divorce.' But you are correct that I don't know why the new husband's first marriage ended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincessMommy Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 It took her a long time to reach this point and she did so while continuing to care for her first husband. Until someone has been there- caring for a permanently brain damaged spouse- I don't think we can really know what we would do ourselves. I heard a brief interview with her on the radio a week or so ago. I agree. I might not be what I would chose to do but this is a very difficult situation. I don't feel I can sit in judgement. I've known a few people (or their families) who have had devastating brain injuries...it is a very difficult life for the family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted January 29, 2012 Author Share Posted January 29, 2012 My husband told me he thinks it's nice and appropriate that she remarried. He indicated his approval of my doing likewise, should I want to. We do not believe remarriage after a divorce is adultery. Well, I am glad you two feel the same about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hana Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 I agree. I love how when someone doesn't like someone elses opinion on things or beliefs its passed off as 'judging'. "Disgusting" sounds like a judgment word to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted January 29, 2012 Author Share Posted January 29, 2012 I heard a brief interview with her on the radio a week or so ago. I agree. I might not be what I would chose to do but this is a very difficult situation. I don't feel I can sit in judgement. I've known a few people (or their families) who have had devastating brain injuries...it is a very difficult life for the family. I too have knowng some people in these horrible situaitons. I am not minimizing how difficult it would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 She could have just moved in with the guy and stayed married to her disabled husband. Then I imagine people wouldn't like that either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted January 29, 2012 Author Share Posted January 29, 2012 She could have just moved in with the guy and stayed married to her disabled husband. Then I imagine people wouldn't like that either. Or she could have stayed faithful to her husband and not divorced him to marry another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hana Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Well, I also wouldn't think it was 'ok' to begin dating someone else when 'in the midst of a divorce.' Hey, I can agree with you on this one, as far as what is personally okay for me, though I still don't think it's okay to expect others to live to my standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted January 29, 2012 Author Share Posted January 29, 2012 Hey, I can agree with you on this one, as far as what is personally okay for me, though I still don't think it's okay to expect others to live to my standards. And now we are right back to religious because I don't feel like it is 'my' standard, but rather God's. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iucounu Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 (edited) I couldn't possibly respect the woman in the article. The story is disgusting. Her choice was to leave her disabled husband because of his disability, then-- though he has some level of comprehension-- allow him to stay in the same home as her and her new beau. ETA: I see he's actually in a group home. Still, . Either he actually knowingly blessed the new union with his replacement after she asked () or she knowingly asked him to sham-bless it (). Edited January 29, 2012 by Iucounu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carpe Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 The rights springing from a marriage contract that traditionally (and in many cases religiously) is suppose to make one feel that they can depend on their mate to care for them to the best of their ability no matter what. Sure. You and your mate are free to set up your own standards for your marriage. I won't be thinking it is ok. Shrug. I was going to respond to this, but dottieanna29 and Parrothead pretty much summed it up. I don't really see any evidence that the ex-husband's rights are being violated in any way. He's healthy, well taken care of and happy. He still gets to see his family, has made a new friend who takes him out to his favorite place. Things might even be better for him with the new circumstances since his ex-wife is probably healthier and happier than she would be after years of taking care of him without the support of a close, emotionally supportive relationship for her and her children. What else would you have the lady in the story do in regards to caring for her xh? The man is loved, housed and cared for in a manner many disabled people only dream of. I think the disabled husband is being better treated now. Instead of one frazzled woman and two kids, he has her (in a better mental state no less) and he new husband and 6 kids combined. That's a lot more love. I can't get upset about this. A woman I know whose fiance left her for her roommate after she had to go on bedrest for an accidental pregnancy. That is disgusting to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hana Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 And now we are right back to religious because I don't feel like it is 'my' standard, but rather God's. :D But I said, "my standards," not yours or your God's. For me, this is not a religious issue, although, if I were in the difficult situation described in this article, I would certainly draw upon my beliefs and my religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts