In2why Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Athletic, yes-but I can't think of many homeschoolers who play football, as opposed to soccer, swimming, volleyball, track, gymnastics, dance...And this is in a community where it's common for boys to start football at about age 4, so it's not that there aren't opportunities. You simply don't see many homeschooled kids at pee wee football (or in rec cheer, for that matter-my DD is on a team of 24 girls, and she's the only one who's homeschooled). And yes, some of these other sports evaporate at high school level too, so it's not the case that parents are picking sports that their child can continue into high school. It just seems that homeschoolers are more likely to choose a sport because they enjoy it-and that this means that it's unlikely that you'd end up with them JUST on the football team (which is what most of the commenters on Tebow articles seem to assume-that homeschoolers are going to come in droves and take their child's spot away). All my boys played football. 2 of them in high school. They also played Basketball and soccer, and wrestled. They were really good at sports. My youngest is 8 and eats, sleeps, and breathes football even though I tried to convince him that he didn't really want to play. ( I was tired of being a football Mom lol) I also know a couple of families here that chose K-12 Public school at home this year only so their kids could participate in football. I am looking at how this works, because I don't know how I will feel when I need to decide for our family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In2why Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 No. It would just mean that someone worked harder. Not everything that affects us is actually about us. Tara I find it amusing that you would stress to me that "Not everything that affects us is actually *about* us, in response to a direct question from me to Dottie. I get it, this is a public message board, but that seriously made me laugh. I do believe that it isn't a bad thing for teens to realize that there are people who will out perform them though, and of course if it did bother Dottie's daughter she could prioritize dance over academics, sleeping, eating, or any other number of things. Then she too could practice 35 hours a week, and then Donna's daughter could decide to practice 50 hours, and then Dottie' could go for 60, and so on and so on. Of course eventually one of them would give up or die, but it wouldn't be unfair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I find it amusing that you would stress to me that "Not everything that affects us is actually *about* us, in response to a direct question from me to Dottie. I get it, this is a public message board, but that seriously made me laugh. Oh. Ok. I don't get it. :confused: I just read a thread, I don't really pay attention to who is talking to whom. Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcconnellboys Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I'm not sure how your tax dollars are not going to your local school. Where we live, our tax dollars do go to our public schools, whether we have children there or not. If my child were allowed to attend certain things at the public schools, the school could include them in their count of student numbers and receive even more money. I'm not sure why they wouldn't want to do that.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In2why Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Why do you think that? The homeschool National Honor Society requires third-party testing, many organizations do. Parents might object to applying one testing standard across the board, but I doubt many of those who desire to participate would deny the value of testing to prove eligibility. We need a poll :D. And I.couldn't set one up on this kindle if my life depended.on it. Right here in this thread I see people not wanting testing requirements. We also have different eligibility rules. I agree that cutting kids from sports based on grades is not always ideal because for some kids sports are the only reason they muddle through school, but the reality is that many States and communities do have GPA requirements and that would mean additional testing for home Schooler's. I also wonder what it would.do to religious exemptions, whereas those families have no state requirements. Here I can see HS families wanting their cake and eating it too. :D. I know for me I would not be.willing to submit to the SOL's for activities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In2why Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Oh. Ok. I don't get it:D. :confused: I just read a thread, I don't really pay attention to who is talking to whom. Tara I am glad you took it the way I meant it with a laugh. I thought as I was typing that she will get it and have a sense of humor or be PO'd. But I figured you would go with it. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcconnellboys Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 The problem with homeschooled children being locked out of school sports is that for some who are very talented in sports, this means that they may not be seen by recruiters and may not have an option for scholarship money to college that they might otherwise receive. Tim Tebow was allowed to play with his local high school. I believe he received scholarship money as a result. And now he plays professionally. If other venues of play were widely available for homeschoolers, and if they would still have an equal chance to be seen by recruiters, then I wouldn't have a problem with them remaining separated in play. But that's not a real option in most states for most folks with most sports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meriwether Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I see public school teams as representing that school. If my child does not actually attend that school, then he should not be one of it's representatives. Schools represent the community. We are part of the community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meriwether Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 No. It would just mean that someone worked harder. Not everything that affects us is actually about us. Tara Your responses in this thread have been spot on. The last sentence here is perfect in all aspects of life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Oh. Ok. I don't get it. :confused: I just read a thread, I don't really pay attention to who is talking to whom. Tara I don't get it either. Unless she was the OP - which she isn't. But even so, a message board isn't a private conversation between two people. Life isn't fair. Competition isn't fair. Some people have talent, genes, opportunities, money etc. that you don't have - and vice versa. Schools are government entities and should provide opportunities to try out at least to as many as they can. While I realize that different states have different laws on this, I'm very happy that the laws in my state allow homeschoolers to participate in ps sports, even though our family has not availed ourselves of the opportunities. I've never ever heard of any reports that this has been negative for the schools or students in our state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommyfaithe Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I don't understand, and I wonder if I'm missing an argument here. I've always held the opinion that we've already opted out of ps; we shouldn't be allowed to handpick certain opportunities. Additionally, schools are not getting our tax dollars--ETA for my specific child to attend the school--, so they shouldn't be forced to absorb our students in team sports. Please enlighten me. I know I can find insight and other valid POVs here. Because we pay exorbitant taxes and should be able to get something for our money. Because sports are often a ticket for our kids to get a good higher education. Because the social aspect and learning to be part of a team is a wonderful experience. Because there are not many sports opportunities outside the school system. I also think kids should be permitted to part time homeschool with things like Chem lab and band offered for all the community students. Because I live in a highly regulated state, and since I am providing the district with all sorts of info, and our students are considered part of the school system, they should be allowed to be part of the extra curricula offerings. Faithe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaichiki Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I don't think schools should have sports. I think they should be entirely community based. Tara :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsBasil Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 So you don't have to play for the school your child would go to if he/she was attending public school according to where you live? Not Margaret, but, aiui, no. Colorado has open enrollment that allows enrollment in a school or school district other than your zoned school or district. It's not unusual for kids to go to a school other than their neighborhood school anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Why do you think that? The homeschool National Honor Society requires third-party testing, many organizations do. Parents might object to applying one testing standard across the board, but I doubt many of those who desire to participate would deny the value of testing to prove eligibility. I think that because, while I think such a requirement is completely reasonable, I have been a member of this forum for a long time and "reasonability" is often not the hallmark for decision making that is embraced by a good number of members of this forum. Not you, of course :D I would prefer to see ways to accommodate home schoolers into participation in as many school programs as possible. There would just need to be attention paid to not creating unintended consequences. Having a parent signature all that is necessary to certify a young person as "academically eligible" creates a potentially huge arena for abuse. I think many families of academically at risk atheletes would simply pull the students out of schools and declare themselves "homeschoolers" when there was no intention of home schooling. But, as I said, if there were reasonable ways beyond self-certification to allow home student athletes the opportunity to compete on sports teams or have other opportunities to be in public school programs I am all for it. Bill Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 One way to prevent kids being pulled out of ps to homeschool just to play sports would be to say that you couldn't play sports as both a public school and homeschool student in the same year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaKinVA Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 As long as the PS students have to take the same test. If a teacher signature is enough for ps kids it should be enough for HS kids. Parents are no more likely to inflate grades than teachers of star athletes. See, that's the sticky part here in VA... the governing body for competitions in VA (academic, club and athletics) wants homeschoolers to take the VA SOL tests, which at first blush sounds reasonable. Unfortunately, they follow a set scope and sequence which puts homeschoolers in a position of either having to do a bunch of cramming for a test (seriously 30 questions on a YEAR of history or science... with US history questions including such things as "Who Invented Facebook" and "Who Invented the DVD," :confused:) I don't mind a reading test, or even a math test... or even the every-few-years required writing test... but when your child is studying Life Science and the test is covering Earth Science... it's a problem. When you're studying Western Civ and the test is covering US government... it gets sticky, because then it is more than simply mandating a test, it's actually mandating a specific time-table for a course of study. We already have required evaluations or mandatory testing in VA... but the powers-that-be say that it is not enough. They "studied" what other states are doing last year, and then tabled the legislation without discussion. It's up for consideration again this year, but I'm not optimistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I was discussing this with dh and he pointed out that our state is considering separating high school sports into parochial and non-parochial divisions that play for separate state championships. The reason for this is that the Catholic schools routinely kick the public schools' butts because the Catholic schools can recruit kids from a variety of public districts. Beyond that, I don't like the idea of holding homeschooling parents to different, more suspicious standards for academic eligibility than school teachers. Basically, that's proceeding on the assumption that teachers are more honest than parents. If school teachers have to certify students academically eligible, then the homeschool teacher should have the same responsibility. We shouldn't assume one group is going to be more or less dishonest than another. Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In The Great White North Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Quote: Originally Posted by TaraTheLiberator I don't think schools should have sports. I think they should be entirely community based. Tara That's what happens in much (most?) of Europe. The result is that school (Gymnasium) goes til 5 and becomes so stressful that most kids don't do any sport at all. Is lowering the daily athletic activity of America's youth really what we, as a country, want? While we complain that childhood obesity is reaching epidemic proportions, affecting the cost of health care, life expectancy, even national security? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaichiki Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 That's what happens in much (most?) of Europe. The result is that school (Gymnasium) goes til 5 and becomes so stressful that most kids don't do any sport at all. Is lowering the daily athletic activity of America's youth really what we, as a country, want? While we complain that childhood obesity is reaching epidemic proportions, affecting the cost of health care, life expectancy, even national security? How would making sports community-based remove daily athletic activity? Our small town has community-based basketball, soccer, baseball, and football. If you want to sign up, you register at town hall (or through the mail). You can be a private-schooled child, a homeschooled child, or a public-schooled child.It doesn't matter. The only requirement is that you live in this town. There are age-based teams (K-8) and our teams play against teams from other towns. Practices happen at the school gym or in the town fields. (The school doesn't have a field.) No one said we should remove gym class from the school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caroline Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Not Margaret, but, aiui, no. Colorado has open enrollment that allows enrollment in a school or school district other than your zoned school or district. It's not unusual for kids to go to a school other than their neighborhood school anyway. I like that. Thanks for the explanation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In2why Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 See, that's the sticky part here in VA... the governing body for competitions in VA (academic, club and athletics) wants homeschoolers to take the VA SOL tests, which at first blush sounds reasonable. Unfortunately, they follow a set scope and sequence which puts homeschoolers in a position of either having to do a bunch of cramming for a test (seriously 30 questions on a YEAR of history or science... with US history questions including such things as "Who Invented Facebook" and "Who Invented the DVD," :confused:) I don't mind a reading test, or even a math test... or even the every-few-years required writing test... but when your child is studying Life Science and the test is covering Earth Science... it's a problem. When you're studying Western Civ and the test is covering US government... it gets sticky, because then it is more than simply mandating a test, it's actually mandating a specific time-table for a course of study. We already have required evaluations or mandatory testing in VA... but the powers-that-be say that it is not enough. They "studied" what other states are doing last year, and then tabled the legislation without discussion. It's up for consideration again this year, but I'm not optimistic. Yes this is my concern, and since I am also in VA, and the legistlation is alive again I am confused, because at first glance I want it to pass, but it seems like everytime we turn around it seems that another enity wants us to have to take the SOL's. I don't mind testing, but like you said the SOL's aren't just testing knowledge, it would change our ability to make curriculum choices. So I understand the reality of some type of accountability, but I am not sure what that would or should look like Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivka Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 That's what happens in much (most?) of Europe. The result is that school (Gymnasium) goes til 5 and becomes so stressful that most kids don't do any sport at all. Is lowering the daily athletic activity of America's youth really what we, as a country, want? While we complain that childhood obesity is reaching epidemic proportions, affecting the cost of health care, life expectancy, even national security? I think the "childhood obesity epidemic" is way overblown, but even apart from that, are high school sports the way to combat it? It's been stated several times on this thread that high school sports teams are supposed to be for the best players to compete and increase their skill. They're not an "everybody plays" situation. They're also voluntary. Joe Fat Kid is probably not even trying out for the track team, but if he does, he's not that likely to make the team. I'd love to see sports be community based rather than school based. I'd also love to see athletics supported at all levels, from elite competitive teams to club leagues that are about fun, exercise, and skill building. And I'd love to see community-supported noncompetitive physical activities like dance and martial arts. That's going to go a lot further towards supporting the health of the entire population of youth than a high school varsity basketball team will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In The Great White North Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Quote: Originally Posted by In The Great White North That's what happens in much (most?) of Europe. The result is that school (Gymnasium) goes til 5 and becomes so stressful that most kids don't do any sport at all. Is lowering the daily athletic activity of America's youth really what we, as a country, want? While we complain that childhood obesity is reaching epidemic proportions, affecting the cost of health care, life expectancy, even national security? How would making sports community-based remove daily athletic activity? Our small town has community-based basketball, soccer, baseball, and football. If you want to sign up, you register at town hall (or through the mail). You can be a private-schooled child, a homeschooled child, or a public-schooled child.It doesn't matter. The only requirement is that you live in this town. There are age-based teams (K-8) and our teams play against teams from other towns. Practices happen at the school gym or in the town fields. (The school doesn't have a field.) No one said we should remove gym class from the school. __________________ That is certainly what happens in Europe, where the sports are all community based. I imagine it is the cost and convenience factor. People are willing to schlep their 8 year olds around - by the time they're 15 that gets old. Compare the number of 8 - 10 year olds to the number of 15 - 18 year olds in any sports program and see the results for yourself. (There are 10 times as many 8 - 10 year olds as high schoolers on our local swim team and most of the high schools in the area don't even offer swimming.) Gym class is already down to one semester (in all four years) around here. Hardly daily activity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommee & Baba Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I don't understand how the public schools are not getting your tax dollars? Do you get a tax rebate for homeschooling?In my neck of the woods, homeschoolers get no type of rebate, and my public school definitely is still taking my thousands in tax dollars each year. By homeschooling, I've opted out of the public school education. I would still like my kids to have the opportunity to participate in all the after-school activities that my tax dollars are supporting. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In The Great White North Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 It's been stated several times on this thread that high school sports teams are supposed to be for the best players to compete and increase their skill. They're not an "everybody plays" situation. They're also voluntary. Joe Fat Kid is probably not even trying out for the track team, but if he does, he's not that likely to make the team. Hence the need for "no cut" teams. Locally, swimming, cross country skiing and crew are "no cut" and, yes, "Joe Fat Kid" and "Joe I can barely swim a length of the pool" do join. Neither of whom have done any community based sports since kindergarten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plucky Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 So many of you make it more complicated than it is. My state allows homeschoolers to participate. They have to meet the exact expectations that ps kids do. We provide a transcript, and they try out. Some sports have a varsity, jv, and 3rd team for those that didn't make the other teams. Everyone is happy. Homeschoolers do pay school taxes. Here kids can take classes and go part-time as well. Maybe our schools understand that even part-time attendance gets them $, and for sports it allows them to harvest some good players they couldn't otherwise. We have to pay to play here also. Most sports are $100 or more to play. Don't forget community sports are an excellent way to fill the gap if a kid is not able to make a team. We did community sports for years. I prefer it as it doesn't take up your entire life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I also think a community sports model, where you have the non-competitive rec teams and travel teams is important. No-cut, leveled only by age teams are great for "Joe average" or even "joe below average", but not for "Jim Hotshot"-especially not when you're talking potential college scholarship money. I see this in soccer in my area (where school teams are less competitive than the travel teams), and I could see that model working for other sports, too. I do think there would have to be a change in funding, though. At least theoretically, PS sports are open without regards to income, and that's not the case for community sports. While the parks and rec level stuff for little kids might be priced at a level most parents can afford, the higher levels get expensive fast! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 That's going to go a lot further towards supporting the health of the entire population of youth than a high school varsity basketball team will. Plus, many team sports, while a "thrill for the crowd" are not sustained into adulthood. How many 35 year old play football regularly. Tennis and such things are much more sustained into adulthood. Something that isn't high impact and doesn't require a whole pack of like-minded people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2cents Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 To the OP-if you live in the US, you are supporting the school with your tax dollars. I see myself as an 'Independent Contractor' of sorts. I report to the school in the form of yearly evaluations, I pay a 'participation fee' (my taxes). I am a teacher to my students just as any institutional teacher in the area...I just do it at home. I see no reason whatsoever that my children should not be included in any of the extracurricular activities. Apparently the school agrees because we are able to participate and homeschoolers do not generally have any problems and it is encouraged. IMO it seems like the OP is disinclined to want access to the school activities based on a personal need/quest for separation from the school 'system' rather than on actual circumstances that mostly don't prohibit homeschoolers from participation. The tax statement was simply in error. Additionally, by homeschooling you do not 'opt out' . You are still bound by the regulations of your particular state and cannot legally 'opt out'. If by 'opt out' you mean you are homeschooling under the radar (without proper reporting) then that is a different situation and not one that I would recommend. In either case, you are still supporting the school with your taxes. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 That's what happens in much (most?) of Europe. The result is that school (Gymnasium) goes til 5 and becomes so stressful that most kids don't do any sport at all. I have lived in Europe, and I have traveled extensively in Europe. I know of one country where school runs late into the day. In the others, school is no longer than it is in the US, and kids are very involved with extra-curricular activities (sports or otherwise). The other thing I observed when I lived in Europe is that they tend not to have the sports mania that Americans do. In many respects, I think that is a good thing. Also, when I lived overseas, the average person did a lot more walking and biking than the average American does. Even people who had cars tended to use them sparingly. Most people took public transit, which required walking and biking. So the need for structured physical activity was less. Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samiam Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Plus, many team sports, while a "thrill for the crowd" are not sustained into adulthood. How many 35 year old play football regularly. Tennis and such things are much more sustained into adulthood. Something that isn't high impact and doesn't require a whole pack of like-minded people. This is the exact reason why one should be allowed to play sports in high school. A average 35 year old is NOT playing tackle football. High school will be the last chance you get to do that.....if it's something you love, why not do it when you can? Not every one wants to play tennis, and frankly, that sport IS offered any many places not related to a school. You won't find many country clubs, or health clubs offering tackle football for it's members. But you can join a tennis league at the local Y. Community sports are not an option for most high schoolers. In the THREE states we have homeschooled in, knowing my son is way into football and baseball, I do keep up on what is going on out there, what his options will be. None of the communities I have lived in, in the three states, have football options via the community rec programs for high school. Why? Because those that want to play high school sports play at high school. There's no need for a community rec team. (*Thankfully we do have a Homeschool football program here that is offered) Baseball is a bit different, there are some community teams, and there are definately travel teams. Around here, travel teams for baseball can cost $1500-$2500 a season. They travel to different tournaments many weekends, which has travel/hotel/food $$$$$. My family can not afford to do that. Not only that, but it will be the WHOLE weekend, which means we would have to figure out how our other children will get to their activities. Baseball at high school, will cost around $100 for fees. He'll ride the bus to the games and if for some reason we can't go watch, he can still participate. Most games will be within an hour of our home and for the afternoon/evening. No hotel costs. My neighbor pays the exact same taxes I do. Why does her child get all access to the extracurriculars and my child gets no access? Other states are doing it and it's proven to be effective with no harm to the school system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 That's going to go a lot further towards supporting the health of the entire population of youth than a high school varsity basketball team will. Yup. Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Plus, many team sports, while a "thrill for the crowd" are not sustained into adulthood. How many 35 year old play football regularly. Tennis and such things are much more sustained into adulthood. Something that isn't high impact and doesn't require a whole pack of like-minded people. Believe me the experience of being a football player is unlike playing another sport I've ever played (rugby comes close, and maybe hockey and lacrosse do as well). It is something that people who have played the game could never hope to understand. Even at 50+ the years I spent playing football are still a big part of who I am. There is nothing wrong with tennis, but it is not the same as playing football. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 This is the exact reason why one should be allowed to play sports in high school. A average 35 year old is NOT playing tackle football. High school will be the last chance you get to do that.....if it's something you love, why not do it when you can? Not every one wants to play tennis, and frankly, that sport IS offered any many places not related to a school. You won't find many country clubs, or health clubs offering tackle football for it's members. But you can join a tennis league at the local Y. :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: You are exactly right! Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In2why Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 So many of you make it more complicated than it is. My state allows homeschoolers to participate. They have to meet the exact expectations that ps kids do. We provide a transcript, and they try out. Some sports have a varsity, jv, and 3rd team for those that didn't make the other teams. Everyone is happy. Homeschoolers do pay school taxes. Here kids can take classes and go part-time as well. Maybe our schools understand that even part-time attendance gets them $, and for sports it allows them to harvest some good players they couldn't otherwise. We have to pay to play here also. Most sports are $100 or more to play. Don't forget community sports are an excellent way to fill the gap if a kid is not able to make a team. We did community sports for years. I prefer it as it doesn't take up your entire life. I think we would all want it simple,.and based on reading, I guess some States have simple, but for those of us facing very complicated legistlation, what we want isn't what is happening. If it were simple I think everyone would want it, but if it is tied up in wording that results in a loss of freedoms, or choices that might change things for every homeschooler in the state, even if they don't participate, it is complicated. Especially strange when some of us are talking theory, some reality, and others possibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choirfarm Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Also, when I lived overseas, the average person did a lot more walking and biking than the average American does. Even people who had cars tended to use them sparingly. Most people took public transit, which required walking and biking. So the need for structured physical activity was less. Tara Ah yes, but in Europe it is set up that way. In the small towns, every single place is withing walking distance of the railway. Let's see, a railway is 30 minutes from here. I live in a small town (11,000) and there is no way to walk around our town. The houses are spread out all over the place. There is no way to walk even if you wanted to. That is one thing I loved about college, though. I walked everywhere and it was wonderful.. I was the skinniest I have ever been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 If it is too "simple," such as allowing parents to assign grades (and certify academic eligibility) no questions asked, then you open a Pandora's Box of unintended consequences. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beaners Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Joe Fat Kid is probably not even trying out for the track team, but if he does, he's not that likely to make the team. Both the track and cross country teams at my high school would take anyone who showed up. Some years the teams were very, very large. A close family member was one of the coaches at my high school, and is coaching college now. You would be amazed to see some of the transformations that happened on those teams. My high school coaches were just as happy for every student athlete who set a personal best, and put just as much time and effort into everyone who wanted to be there. :001_smile: It makes me feel warm and fuzzy thinking about it. Now soccer, football, lacrosse, basketball or baseball, those teams had cuts starting when school sports began in 7th grade. You always had at least one sport each season that did not cut any students. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plucky Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 If it is too "simple," such as allowing parents to assign grades (and certify academic eligibility) no questions asked, then you open a Pandora's Box of unintended consequences. Bill Not really. We give the coach our transcript with our assigned grades. The kids go out for the team. They either make it or not. If a homeschooled parent is not adequately homeschooling her kid it will catch up with them eventually at college level. Our state does require testing, but we aren't required to do anything with it except have it on file. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plucky Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I think we would all want it simple,.and based on reading, I guess some States have simple, but for those of us facing very complicated legistlation, what we want isn't what is happening. If it were simple I think everyone would want it, but if it is tied up in wording that results in a loss of freedoms, or choices that might change things for every homeschooler in the state, even if they don't participate, it is complicated. Especially strange when some of us are talking theory, some reality, and others possibility. Then homeschoolers in those states should show them the laws from the states that already have simple homeschool sports participation policies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Not really. We give the coach our transcript with our assigned grades. The kids go out for the team. They either make it or not. If a homeschooled parent is not adequately homeschooling her kid it will catch up with them eventually at college level. Our state does require testing, but we aren't required to do anything with it except have it on file. If the rules are so loose that a parent can claim any grades they desire and that qualifies as academic eligibility then there will be abuse, as sports-mad parents of children who are in academic jeopardy at school will simply pull the kids out of school and claim eligibility even if no actual homeschooling takes place. Of course this will catch up kids (and society). That is the problem. These lack of requirements have a very bad potential for unintended negative consequences. So if there is a way to establish actual academic minimum standards for real home educated students it removes the abuse of status issues and open up opportunities I think home educated ought to have. I am in favor of home schooled children/teens having as much access to opportunities at public schools as possible. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plucky Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) If the rules are so loose that a parent can claim any grades they desire and that qualifies as academic eligibility then there will be abuse, as sports-mad parents of children who are in academic jeopardy at school will simply pull the kids out of school and claim eligibility even if no actual homeschooling takes place. Of course this will catch up kids (and society). That is the problem. These lack of requirements have a very bad potential for unintended negative consequences. So if there is a way to establish actual academic minimum standards for real home educated students it removes the abuse of status issues and open up opportunities I think home educated ought to have. I am in favor of home schooled children/teens having as much access to opportunities at public schools as possible. Bill Well, it isn't happening here. I think I would have heard about it. More kids are pulled out because of a bad school situation, not because of bad grades and sports participation. Plus, I think coaches and admin. know when that is going on. Edited January 24, 2012 by True Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Well, it isn't happening here. I think I would have heard about it. More kids are pulled out because of a bad school situation, not because of bad grades and sports participation. Plus, I think coaches and admin. know when that is going on. The Tim Tebow bill linked in this thread would not give a coach or administrator any power to act if they knew a "home school" situation was being abused to evade academic probation, as the only qualification is a parent self-reporting eligibility. That is nuts. There ought to be a sensible middle ground of demonstrating academic elegibility. This protects "real" home schoolers too. The last thing you need is for your studenst to face more doubts about the legitimacy of their education than they might now. That would happen if so-called "homeschooling" becomes a way to evade academic requirements at schools for participation in sports. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 If the rules are so loose that a parent can claim any grades they desire and that qualifies as academic eligibility then there will be abuse, as sports-mad parents of children who are in academic jeopardy at school will simply pull the kids out of school and claim eligibility even if no actual homeschooling takes place. Of course this will catch up kids (and society). That is the problem. These lack of requirements have a very bad potential for unintended negative consequences. So if there is a way to establish actual academic minimum standards for real home educated students it removes the abuse of status issues and open up opportunities I think home educated ought to have. I am in favor of home schooled children/teens having as much access to opportunities at public schools as possible. Bill I've heard the same thing said about homeschooling in general, and there have been some horror stories where kids have been completely non-schooled in the name of homeschooling. But, in the main, even in states with limited controls, homeschoolers tend to stack up quite well against the public schools. I'm guessing this would work the same way. Would there be abuses? Absolutely, because that's human nature. But would those abuses be enough to justify intrusive regulations on ALL homeschoolers? Probably not. In general, I'm willing to accept any regulations on homeschooled student athletes that apply to all athletes-but not willing to say that these should apply to all homeschoolers. To use a silly example, if it were required that ALL 2nd grade soccer players pass a math test each week in order to stay on the team, and my daughter wanted to play 2nd grade soccer and was willing to take the stupid tests, I'd be willing to put up with it. But I wouldn't be willing to have my daughter take a test because she's homeschooled if the other kids just had to have their teacher sign a form-because I'm her math teacher, and I'm perfectly capable of judging whether she's passing 2nd grade math. And I'd have real trouble with them deciding that all homeschoolers should take weekly math tests so that, should they, at some time in the future, decide to play 2nd grade soccer we'd know they're eligible, even if there isn't even a 2nd grade soccer team at the local school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 The Tim Tebow bill linked in this thread would not give a coach or administrator any power to act if they knew a "home school" situation was being abused to evade academic probation, as the only qualification is a parent self-reporting eligibility. That is nuts. Ok, but parents of failing public schooled students might do their homework for them or complete their projects for them so they can maintain eligibility. The student might cheat. Some things can't realistically be controlled. Hard cases make bad law, as the saying goes. Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I've heard the same thing said about homeschooling in general, and there have been some horror stories where kids have been completely non-schooled in the name of homeschooling. But, in the main, even in states with limited controls, homeschoolers tend to stack up quite well against the public schools. Sure they do. But here we are talking about "real homeschoolers" vs people who are just trying to evade academic probation. I am for "real homeschoolers" having opportunities like full participation in school sports programs. I'm guessing this would work the same way. Would there be abuses? Absolutely, because that's human nature. But would those abuses be enough to justify intrusive regulations on ALL homeschoolers? Probably not. Demonstrating academic minimums is not inherently "intrusive," and it would not effect all home educated students, just those who want to participate in sports programs that have academic requirements for participation that public school kids need to meet. On that level it is an even playing field. In general, I'm willing to accept any regulations on homeschooled student athletes that apply to all athletes-but not willing to say that these should apply to all homeschoolers. Me too. And while I don't have an exact formulation of "how" to accomplish it, I'd hope the means to prove academic eligibility were reasonable and uncomplicated as possible. But this would be for school athletics (or other extra curricular activities) that PS students would need to have academic eligibility only. That, I think is fair. To use a silly example, if it were required that ALL 2nd grade soccer players pass a math test each week in order to stay on the team, and my daughter wanted to play 2nd grade soccer and was willing to take the stupid tests, I'd be willing to put up with it. But I wouldn't be willing to have my daughter take a test because she's homeschooled if the other kids just had to have their teacher sign a form-because I'm her math teacher, and I'm perfectly capable of judging whether she's passing 2nd grade math. And I'd have real trouble with them deciding that all homeschoolers should take weekly math tests so that, should they, at some time in the future, decide to play 2nd grade soccer we'd know they're eligible, even if there isn't even a 2nd grade soccer team at the local school. We have no disagreement. These issues (best as I understand) pertain to High School athletics (not Second Grade). In a "perfect world" there is a reasonable way for home schooled children to demonstrate academic eligibility that is not punitive or designed to be a barrier to homeschooled kids. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Ok, but parents of failing public schooled students might do their homework for them or complete their projects for them so they can maintain eligibility. The student might cheat. Some things can't realistically be controlled. Hard cases make bad law, as the saying goes. Tara Parents can't take their children's tests for them. We can move into hypothetical discussions of other forms of potential abuse but it in no way changes the fact that the Tim Tebow bill leaves a hole a mile wide for abuse by people who have no interest in home education, and just want to keep their children elegable for sports by hook or by crook. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Parents can't take their children's tests for them. We can move into hypothetical discussions of other forms of potential abuse but it in no way changes the fact that the Tim Tebow bill leaves a hole a mile wide for abuse by people who have no interest in home education, and just want to keep their children elegable for sports by hook or by crook. Bill How many states that are considering or have Tebow bills have no reporting requirements? My state has discussed one (and left it up to the individual superintendent of each district), and in mine, in order to be eligible, you'd have to register with the public schools and take the end of grade/end of course tests for the years/classes the state requires them for PS students (already in place for homeschoolers unless you go through a private school-in which case you're eligible for programs through THAT school, and have to meet their standards). It would seem a no-brainer that a student who failed the prior year's coursework would be ineligible to play sports, so parents who wanted to lie wouldn't gain much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 How many states that are considering or have Tebow bills have no reporting requirements? I have no idea. It is the case in Alabama, which was the bill linked to earlier in the thread. Actually, there is an self-reporting requirement that is accepted on face value. My state has discussed one (and left it up to the individual superintendent of each district), and in mine, in order to be eligible, you'd have to register with the public schools and take the end of grade/end of course tests for the years/classes the state requires them for PS students (already in place for homeschoolers unless you go through a private school-in which case you're eligible for programs through THAT school, and have to meet their standards). It would seem a no-brainer that a student who failed the prior year's coursework would be ineligible to play sports, so parents who wanted to lie wouldn't gain much. This seems more restrictive to me than having general standards, but I don't have it all thought through. The goal I would think would be to maximize participation while not creating a tempting abuse situation for public school parents whose children faced academic probation. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ma23peas Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 If the rules are so loose that a parent can claim any grades they desire and that qualifies as academic eligibility then there will be abuse, as sports-mad parents of children who are in academic jeopardy at school will simply pull the kids out of school and claim eligibility even if no actual homeschooling takes place. Of course this will catch up kids (and society). That is the problem. These lack of requirements have a very bad potential for unintended negative consequences. So if there is a way to establish actual academic minimum standards for real home educated students it removes the abuse of status issues and open up opportunities I think home educated ought to have. I am in favor of home schooled children/teens having as much access to opportunities at public schools as possible. Bill A flawed but understandable logic....with Florida it has been shown that less than 3% of homeschoolers take the opportunity. In our state that is less than one-2 kids per county....I can guarantee you that the parents of academically or behaviorally expelled students will not go through the hoops to 'show' their child is being homeschooled...they can only try out in the school they are zoned to and I am sure they have written it in that a student expelled must show a period of grades before being allowed back in. Some states also accept standardized testing as proof of eligibility... If you look at those states that have had it for over a decade, the incidence of abuse is negligible...the best real world test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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