Why should homeschoolers be allowed to participate in ps sports?

[NancyNellen]

I don't know about the Tebow Bill, but you pay taxes for the post office so that you can use the post office not so that you can sort mail. You pay taxes for the library so that you can borrow books from them, not so that you can order the books. You pay taxes for schools so that you (or your kids) can learn/participate in them, not so that you can teach in them.

 

:iagree:

 

Exactly. I don't think your examples have anything to do with what we are talking about. I am happy to pay library taxes so that I can have access to the database. I am happy to pay PO taxes so that my mail gets delivered to my mailbox. If I so choose, I should be able to participate in the local schools where so much of my tax monies go. I am not asking to change offerings there, just participate in what my tax dollars are helping to fund.

 

(And this from someone who does not use the PS for anything, sports or otherwise. I still think it should be an option if I desired to use it.)

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Why should there be any difference between sports and a graded music class? Why should one be okay but not the other?

 

I think both should be ok:) Part time school does benefit the schools funding wise from what I understand.

[TranquilMind]

I'll take the unpopular view that homeschoolers have no place in public school sports. When I opt out of the p.s. system, I'm opting out of ALL of it. Period. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

jmho

I'd agree with you, if I could also opt out of paying the high taxes for the local failing school system. It is patently unfair to take my money and allow me no access.

[justasque]

Thank you for all of the helpful comments. It's made me think about the bigger picture and focus on a few points.

 

End result:

 

1. You've changed my opinion regarding my state's pending legislation, since I am required to do certain things to maintain my homeschooling status.

 

2. If someone else wants to do it, there's no reason for me to say the law should not be changed (which is moot, considering #1 above).

 

I knew that I could get a wide range of opinions here. :001_smile:

 

:):):)

I'm impressed; it's not everyone who can listen to diverse opinions and experiences and in the end decide to think differently about something. :-)

[mytwomonkeys]

we live in florida & my children can take classes at the PS. i LOVE this option. when my daughter is in 6th grade, she will join choir, drama, and cheer. my son wants to be in the band later on. i don't mind if homeschoolers opt out of this, but for my family it is an awesome option.

[freesia]

Don't feel bad. Our superintendent informed us two years ago that the wave of the future is community based sports.

 

Richer districts now rent fields from our district to practice on. I hear Carlisle over in Penn solved the mowing costs by using sheep. I wonder if that's next...let the maintenance staff go and part-time hire the farmer.

:D Probably! Where does all our tax money go?

 

For me it's the attitude--we aren't exactly opting out when we have to be so entwined with the bureaucracy. It feels like a punishment. We didn't want to let anyone homeschool so we will grudgingly allow you to if we can closely monitor you but, because we didn't get what we wanted, you can't have anything from us. Na-na.

[CLBMom]

My city sent out a census of sorts a few years ago asking all the ages of the childrens under 18 in the house. It stated that the information would be used to get the most state/federal funding possible for the public schools. I called around to verify and was told they wanted to count the private schooled kids because they get paid for every child in the city regardless if they are enrolled (they said they already had hs kids if the parents were doing it legally) My first reaction was to not fill it out but after praying about it and talking to my dh I did. I know my children wouldn't benefit first hand but other children could so they got my 3 counted. The hs kids playing ps sports is up for vote in my state this year (Virginia) I really hope they pass it. I also believe kids in private schools that don't offer sports should also have the option since they are paying taxes and the school gets $ for them as well.

[ThisIsTheDay]

My city sent out a census of sorts a few years ago asking all the ages of the childrens under 18 in the house.

 

I was surprised to learn that this census has changed, effective this year. They will now be estimating student count, instead of individual counting. http://www.doe.virginia.gov/statistics_reports/enrollment/triennial_school_census/index.shtml

 

[CLBMom]

I was surprised to learn that this census has changed, effective this year. They will now be estimating student count, instead of individual counting. http://www.doe.virginia.gov/statistics_reports/enrollment/triennial_school_census/index.shtml

 

Ok maybe I'm missing something. How exactly will they be counting them now?

[Rivka]

My local PS wanted my dd on their drill team desperately. She went to try out with her friend for fun, and they were blown away by her dance ability (she is now a professional ballerina and attending college on a ballet scholarship, as well). They moved heaven and earth to make sure she participated. [...]

 

She had a great time participating and contributed a lot to the team. There were some bumps, as she was the best dancer there (because she'd spent every day up to that point in a ballet program from 11 AM to 6 PM....duh...she had BETTER be the best one in the room :D), and some of the other girls who had been on the team for years got their noses out of joint when she was always placed in front or given solo numbers, but she worked it all out, and it was great.

 

I know that your daughter was actually recruited by the school, but I'd call this story an argument for why HS kids shouldn't be allowed to be on PS sports teams. If a HS kid can devote professional-level time and practice to a sport or activity, that puts them at an unfair advantage over kids who, however talented they may be, have to put in seven hours a day at school.

 

It sounds like your daughter was a ringer, an essentially professional dancer who came onto the team and took solo/leadership roles away from kids who were the kind of amateur student-athletes that, IMO, high school sports are supposed to be about. If I had been a parent at that school, you'd better believe I would have been raising questions about the situation. That the school encouraged it reflects poorly on them.

[DianeW88]

Other PS kids put in just as many hours for their sports or activity....they simply do them at another time. I went to school, but also trained as a dancer and a figure skater. I skated before school from 5 to 7:15 AM, then went after school from 3:30 to 6 PM. I also participated in school activites. If the child is driven enough...they can do it.

 

And in Utah, ALL children are allowed to participate in public school activites, no matter what. My dd also didn't have any "official" grades to report to be on the team. She didn't have to...she didn't get any through the school. The school assigned her a 4.0 grade point average and she made the state honor roll for drill team as well.

 

Life isn't "fair" and the one thing that bugs me most about public school is the constant whining of "that's not fair". It is what it is....and the real world and real jobs aren't "fair" either. My dd was better than the other girls, she made the school look better and her talent and hard work paid off. Same as in life. High school athletics are NOT about "everyone can play". They want to win. More money for their school. What happened with my dd would be no different than someone on any other team.....they play the best players. Period.

[NASDAQ]

Full disclosure: I do not use the public schools and don't encourage my kids to do anything that they'd do at the public schools, even though the public schools in our area (BC, Canada) are quite supportive. Although school sports are not a big thing in my area.

 

I think it depends on what you see the mission of public schooling to be. I think it's to assist parents in educating their children, subject to the limits the school has to create for self preservation. If music and sports education are a priority for the community, I think it would be in the best interest of the community to offer those things as widely as possible.

 

I'm puzzled by people who think home schooling must be all or nothing. That would make it much more difficult for people with marginal incomes to home school. They're already hit twice -- taxes as well as home schooling costs. So why do we want to pile on costs of speech therapy, sports, and music? The marginal cost of one extra kid in a music class is not high.

[Haiku]

Life isn't "fair" and the one thing that bugs me most about public school is the constant whining of "that's not fair". It is what it is....and the real world and real jobs aren't "fair" either. My dd was better than the other girls, she made the school look better and her talent and hard work paid off. Same as in life. High school athletics are NOT about "everyone can play". They want to win. More money for their school. What happened with my dd would be no different than someone on any other team.....they play the best players. Period.

 

Yup. My kids play hockey, which most schools around here don't even offer. If kids want to play hockey, most play for community teams. Should my kids not be allowed to play on those teams because they get more ice time than the kids who are in school while my kids are attending the homeschool skate?

 

Some kids are better and put in more time. That's life. I really don't get this idea that in order for things to be fair or right, homeschooled kids have to be banished from anything having to do with the public schools. Why create division where none need exist?

 

Tara

[DianeW88]

Yup. My kids play hockey, which most schools around here don't even offer. If kids want to play hockey, most play for community teams. Should my kids not be allowed to play on those teams because they get more ice time than the kids who are in school while my kids are attending the homeschool skate?

 

Some kids are better and put in more time. That's life. I really don't get this idea that in order for things to be fair or right, homeschooled kids have to be banished from anything having to do with the public schools. Why create division where none need exist?

 

Tara

 

Exactly. My dd did nothing "wrong" by being on the team. She had as much right to be there as any other girl. And it is a competitive team. Over 70 girls tried out and only 16 made it. Why? Because they only wanted the best dancers, not recreational ones. There are places in the community for kids to play recreational sports...high school isn't one of them.

[LucyStoner]

speech therapy

 

At least for speech therapy and the like, you are required to have equal access regardless of school enrollment in all states.

 

I guess I am spoiled in WA state but dual enrollment/PT school participation seems like a no-brainer to be me for the parents who want it. I am kinda surprised that it is not allowed in 26 states!

[Donna]

I know that your daughter was actually recruited by the school, but I'd call this story an argument for why HS kids shouldn't be allowed to be on PS sports teams. If a HS kid can devote professional-level time and practice to a sport or activity, that puts them at an unfair advantage over kids who, however talented they may be, have to put in seven hours a day at school.

 

It sounds like your daughter was a ringer, an essentially professional dancer who came onto the team and took solo/leadership roles away from kids who were the kind of amateur student-athletes that, IMO, high school sports are supposed to be about. If I had been a parent at that school, you'd better believe I would have been raising questions about the situation. That the school encouraged it reflects poorly on them.

 

This thinking is so completely wrong.

 

There are many kids in PS who go above and beyond to work on their sport/musical interests. I know a swimmer who got up at 4am every morning to go to the pool then swam on the school team in the afternoon, dancers and gymnasts who practice every night, and kids in music who come home from school and practice all afternoon for 4-5 hours.

 

My own son in PS gets up every morning to run, works out lifting weights after school, then goes to wrestling practice nearly every night...probably adds up to about 4.5-6 hours of work depending on the day and lengths of his workouts and he wrestles year-round at tournaments on weekends...so, do you think he shouldn't be able to participate on the school wrestling team because he has the drive and we have the money to pay for extra coaching in the off season?

 

You're basically saying if you work harder than everyone else, you should not participate in school activities because they are only for mediocre kids who put out no extra effort. So, where will they draw the line on who's a "ringer" and has an unfair advantage....why leave out the kids who homeschool? Maybe they work on school for 5-6 hours a day, too, and practice in between school rather than all at one time in the afternoon?

 

Life isn't fair. Some people have advantages others don't have whether that is time or money or knowing the right people. Some people work harder than others or have some natural talent or drive. Kids might as well learn that lesson early on in life.

 

Over 80% of my property tax money goes to the school budget. I get none back because I homeschool. If they had some opportunity available for my dd's music, I would certainly fight to take advantage of that opportunity.

[creekland]

My guys play on our high school chess team and helped them win the state competition at their level last year. ;) They appear set to go again this year since they are undefeated so far in league competition.

 

My tax $$ go to the school. I work at the school. Just because I feel their academics are lacking and opted to pull mine out due to it (youngest is back in by his choice), doesn't mean we have to give it all up. There's no local "club" chess team. Even if there were, mine enjoy the high school chess team.

 

If we didn't pay tax $$ unless our kids went there I would think schools could discriminate, but count me among those who can't fathom why schools can discriminate when we do pay tax $$.

[In The Great White North]

It sounds like your daughter was a ringer, an essentially professional dancer who came onto the team and took solo/leadership roles away from kids who were the kind of amateur student-athletes that, IMO, high school sports are supposed to be about.

 

A "ringer" is someone recruited from out of district. A child who lives in the district is not, by definition, a "ringer." The recruiting rules are rather strict and have clearly defined what is inappropriate. A coach may "recruit" athletes from within his district. A coach may not recruit an athlete who lives elsewhere.

 

"Essentially professional" means the child has been paid and is not at all related to where they go to school or how many hours they put in.

[Haiku]

One of my regular customers where I work is a teacher at the high school that's three blocks from where we live. When he came in last night, I asked him about homeschooled kids utilizing public school classes/activities/sports (keep in mind that my dd17 plays for the boys' varsity soccer team at this same school; she doesn't attend, but because her school doesn't offer sports she is allowed to play for teams at other schools in the district).

 

He said that he doesn't think homeschooled kids should have access to public school classes and resources because homeschooled kids "get the best of everything anyway" and something should be leftover for the schooled kids.

 

:001_huh:

 

Tara

[Wheres Toto]

I know that your daughter was actually recruited by the school, but I'd call this story an argument for why HS kids shouldn't be allowed to be on PS sports teams. If a HS kid can devote professional-level time and practice to a sport or activity, that puts them at an unfair advantage over kids who, however talented they may be, have to put in seven hours a day at school.

 

It sounds like your daughter was a ringer, an essentially professional dancer who came onto the team and took solo/leadership roles away from kids who were the kind of amateur student-athletes that, IMO, high school sports are supposed to be about. If I had been a parent at that school, you'd better believe I would have been raising questions about the situation. That the school encouraged it reflects poorly on them.

 

I understand what your saying here but IME with my dd who has always gone to public school, this isn't the case. I'm sure it depends on the high school but around here high school varsity sports are for those kids who are good enough to be looking for college scholarships and professional opportunities. These kids train all year round, some take summer intensive camps. There may be a disparity due to income since there are definitely more opportunities for those who can afford them but there are scholarships/financial help for lower income families.

 

My daughter has been dancing since she was 4. She dances 10-15 hours a week despite being in school all day. When she tried out for cheerleading at her high school, despite never having done cheer before, she made the squad and was a Captain her junior and senior years. The dancing definitely gave her an advantage since she learned routines quickly, was able to help others learn them and had good moves. But it wasn't an UNFAIR advantage, she worked hard for years to get those skills.

[Lady Florida.]

Thank you for all of the helpful comments. It's made me think about the bigger picture and focus on a few points.

 

End result:

 

1. You've changed my opinion regarding my state's pending legislation, since I am required to do certain things to maintain my homeschooling status.

 

2. If someone else wants to do it, there's no reason for me to say the law should not be changed (which is moot, considering #1 above).

 

I knew that I could get a wide range of opinions here. :001_smile:

 

I've been reading this thread even though I haven't posted. All of what I had to say was said by other posters anyway. I do want to say though, that I think it's great that:

 

1. A respectful discussion on the subject did actually have an effect on you.

2. You were willing to publicly admit that you changed your mind, and you thanked those who helped change it.

[In2why]

A "ringer" is someone recruited from out of district. A child who lives in the district is not, by definition, a "ringer." The recruiting rules are rather strict and have clearly defined what is inappropriate. A coach may "recruit" athletes from within his district. A coach may not recruit an athlete who lives elsewhere.

 

"Essentially professional" means the child has been paid and is not at all related to where they go to school or how many hours they put in.

 

 

This is an interesting idea I hadn't considered. Here we have a 2.0 rule to play. What happens when a kid who can't maintain a 2.0 in public school has parents who decide to "homeschool" him/her so they can play sports? Or is assigned one school based on where they live but the other school has a better football team so they pull them out of school so they can play for the school they want? I am not worried about people who are already homeschooling, but I wonder if it couldn't lead to people joining the home school community who really don't care about academics. Then I see the possibility of regulations to prevent that, so more testing and requirements.

I know that olympiads and actors have homeschooled for years to be able to support their passion, so I don't see that as any different from a dancer who rearranges her schedule so she can dance more and school/sleep less. It is an advantage, but not unfair. It would only be unfair if her education actually suffered and there was no plan B if dancing didn't work out or there was a career ending injury. Sorta like Basketball players who graduate unable to read, but can make 3 pointers all day long.

[In2why]

I understand what your saying here but IME with my dd who has always gone to public school, this isn't the case. I'm sure it depends on the high school but around here high school varsity sports are for those kids who are good enough to be looking for college scholarships and professional opportunities. These kids train all year round, some take summer intensive camps. There may be a disparity due to income since there are definitely more opportunities for those who can afford them but there are scholarships/financial help for lower income families.

 

My daughter has been dancing since she was 4. She dances 10-15 hours a week despite being in school all day. When she tried out for cheerleading at her high school, despite never having done cheer before, she made the squad and was a Captain her junior and senior years. The dancing definitely gave her an advantage since she learned routines quickly, was able to help others learn them and had good moves. But it wasn't an UNFAIR advantage, she worked hard for years to get those skills.

 

 

But serious question, how upsetting would it be if someone knocked her out of her position and you knew they were able to practice 7 hours a day, or 35 hours a week? Something that no one in public school could do unless they gave up sleep. You already stated that she worked hard, would that mean that she didn't work hard enough? Or needed to work harder?

I don't have a concrete opinion, although I do agree that life isn't fair, and that there is always going to be someone better, but it an interesting dilema, and could have an effect on public school activities that I hadn't considered before.

[SailorMom]

Regardless of all the other arguments and fairness issues...

My property taxes pay for the school. Many people who attend do not pay property taxes, and my money subsidizes their kids.

If we decide to utilize any PS resources for our DS who is not attending, it is wholly appropriate and acceptable.

What about HS'ers who do not pay those taxes? Well - how in the world would the school districts handle figuring out that??? It would cost more money just to manage it.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I see public school teams as representing that school. If my child does not actually attend that school, then he should not be one of it's representatives.

[Haiku]

I wonder if it couldn't lead to people joining the home school community who really don't care about academics.

 

Interesting. I know plenty of people who homeschool for reasons that have nothing to do with academics. I know plenty of people (myself included, in the case of dd17) who send kids to school for reasons that have nothing to do with academics.

 

I don't think we should restrict homeschooling to those who do it for academic reasons. Those who do it for religious, cultural, health, social, athletic, or other reasons should have a place, too, and not be looked on negatively for it.

 

Tara

[Haiku]

would that mean that she didn't work hard enough?

 

No. It would just mean that someone worked harder. Not everything that affects us is actually about us.

 

Tara

[Margaret in GA]

Interesting. I know plenty of people who homeschool for reasons that have nothing to do with academics. I know plenty of people (myself included, in the case of dd17) who send kids to school for reasons that have nothing to do with academics.

 

I don't think we should restrict homeschooling to those who do it for academic reasons. Those who do it for religious, cultural, health, social, athletic, or other reasons should have a place, too, and not be looked on negatively for it.

 

Tara

 

:iagree: I homeschool my 12 yo and my 15 yo attends a private school. We would rather homeschool and have him play sports at our local high school, but we've been told by the school that we cannot do that in the state of Georgia. Anyone know if that's really true? :bigear: I find it very frustrating to pay property taxes and sales taxes and to not be allowed to use the very facilities I've helped pay for.

 

Margaret

[Margaret in GA]

The majority of my property tax bill goes to the school district whether my children are there or not and per child money is not what pays for sports. In my area, because of middle and high school sports, there are very few opportunities for sports beyond 4th - 6th grade. They think that kids who want to continue in sports will just play at school.

 

 

Exactly the issue we have with our high-schooler. He plays travel soccer in the Fall, but come Spring, all the kids his age play high school soccer and he has no team at his private school. It's becoming a major issue for us and now we are likely going to move him to a public school. And believe me, we'd rather not!

 

Margaret

[ktgrok]

This is an interesting idea I hadn't considered. Here we have a 2.0 rule to play. What happens when a kid who can't maintain a 2.0 in public school has parents who decide to "homeschool" him/her so they can play sports? Or is assigned one school based on where they live but the other school has a better football team so they pull them out of school so they can play for the school they want? .

 

Well, I think a kid who isn't getting even a 2.0 probably doesn't have a supportive family that wants to homeschool him, but I could be wrong. As for the player wanting to play for a different district it doesn't work that way. If you are homeschooled you play for the school you would normally be zoned for.

[justasque]

In the case of having many students but few places in a particular sport, the answer seems to be to provide more opportunities for students to play that sport, ideally at different levels. Instead of just a Varsity and a JV team, there may be enough kids to set up an intermural team or league. In the case of dance, an A team and a B team might be a possibility - I've seen this done in Lego League and in Matheletes. I know colleges often have a swim club that trains like the swim team, but doesn't have meets; it's set up specifically for kids who are competitive swimmers but who want to have the flexibility to focus on academics. "Club" sports like this are common in colleges.

 

Also, some schools offer a "no cuts" sport every season. My son swam for a "no cuts" team; he was, to say the least, not very competitive, but he was able to practice with the team and swim in "exhibition" heats at each match. In contrast there were kids on the team who were competitive at the national level; they actually only nominally attended practice with the high school team, and the rest of the week swam on their year-round highly-competitive, swim-club-based team.

 

So if there are only a few spots, the answer isn't to ditch the homeschooled kids (who are usually a drop in the bucket, numbers-wise), the answer is to create more options and levels so that more kids can participate.

 

This would also address the issue of kids who have been doing a sport since they were 3 vs. kids who haven't had such opportunities, or for whom the sport is relatively new.

[Margaret in GA]

I know that your daughter was actually recruited by the school, but I'd call this story an argument for why HS kids shouldn't be allowed to be on PS sports teams. If a HS kid can devote professional-level time and practice to a sport or activity, that puts them at an unfair advantage over kids who, however talented they may be, have to put in seven hours a day at school.

 

It sounds like your daughter was a ringer, an essentially professional dancer who came onto the team and took solo/leadership roles away from kids who were the kind of amateur student-athletes that, IMO, high school sports are supposed to be about. If I had been a parent at that school, you'd better believe I would have been raising questions about the situation. That the school encouraged it reflects poorly on them.

 

I don't know about dance, but I can say that in soccer, it is better to have an excellent player on a team than not. It makes all the kids better. Having said that, I will add that a megalomaniac is always harmful to a team. But, if the kid is a team player, it's a great thing. We have kids all the time in and out of our various soccer clubs that are amazing and it truly gives the other kids something to emulate and it pushes them, motivates them. How can a player get better unless they see attainable excellence? In addition, coaches want to win. Players want to win. And parent want to win. Also, this isn't simply limited to high school sports or dance. At all ages, you have some kids that devote hours and hours to a sport many times with private lessons or expensive camps that others cannot afford and it's hard to deal with for some kids (mostly, it's hard for the parents).

Margaret

[Dmmetler]

This is an interesting idea I hadn't considered. Here we have a 2.0 rule to play. What happens when a kid who can't maintain a 2.0 in public school has parents who decide to "homeschool" him/her so they can play sports? Or is assigned one school based on where they live but the other school has a better football team so they pull them out of school so they can play for the school they want? I am not worried about people who are already homeschooling, but I wonder if it couldn't lead to people joining the home school community who really don't care about academics. Then I see the possibility of regulations to prevent that, so more testing and requirements.

I know that olympiads and actors have homeschooled for years to be able to support their passion, so I don't see that as any different from a dancer who rearranges her schedule so she can dance more and school/sleep less. It is an advantage, but not unfair. It would only be unfair if her education actually suffered and there was no plan B if dancing didn't work out or there was a career ending injury. Sorta like Basketball players who graduate unable to read, but can make 3 pointers all day long.

 

In my state, if you leave a PS to homeschool, you're officially transferring schools. I would imagine that high school leagues already have rules in place about transferring to a new school mid-season when you have failing grades at the old one, and I seriously doubt that even if the new school gives straight A's that the student would be eligible right away based on the lack of performance at the old one.

 

And, maybe it's because I taught in the PS system and still regularly read PS teacher boards, but I've seen a LOT of high school teachers talk about the pressure to pass start students, or the efforts to get a star student qualified on an IEP so that no pass/no play doesn't count. And I've seen those scandals in the media far more than "Extra! Homeschool moms give false grades". Realistically, giving your star athlete passing grades as a homeschooler seems likely to backfire pretty quickly when it comes time to prove NCAA eligibility for college-or even to get INTO college as a homeschooled student.

 

And despite Tebow, I don't think most homeschoolers are likely to want to be on the varsity football team. I suspect that for every Tebow, there would be 10 who are filling out the cast list for the school musical, participating in JETS competitions (Engineering and technology), playing clarinet in the band, and playing JV volleyball (to put a PE credit on their homeschool transcript). At least, based on the homeschoolers I know!

[Wheres Toto]

But serious question, how upsetting would it be if someone knocked her out of her position and you knew they were able to practice 7 hours a day, or 35 hours a week? Something that no one in public school could do unless they gave up sleep. You already stated that she worked hard, would that mean that she didn't work hard enough? Or needed to work harder?

I don't have a concrete opinion, although I do agree that life isn't fair, and that there is always going to be someone better, but it an interesting dilema, and could have an effect on public school activities that I hadn't considered before.

 

If they are willing to practice 7 hours a day and have that much of a passion for it, good for them. That kind of passion and dedication is very unusual. It would also probably have them dancing for a professional or performance company rather than trying out for a high school cheerleading squad.

 

I think those unfair advantage situations will not come up often. We have a votech school where kids can take 1/2 day of courses there and 1/2 day of classes at their local school. One of their offerings is dance. So, my dd could theoretically already be up against kids who are able to spend 4 hours of their school day working on dance, in addition to whatever they take through outside studios.

[Haiku]

And despite Tebow, I don't think most homeschoolers are likely to want to be on the varsity football team. I suspect that for every Tebow, there would be 10 who are filling out the cast list for the school musical, participating in JETS competitions (Engineering and technology), playing clarinet in the band, and playing JV volleyball (to put a PE credit on their homeschool transcript).

 

I think there is a stereotype that homeschoolers are nerdy intellectuals, but plenty of homeschooled kids love sports. Mine are heavily involved with hockey. If there is a lack of homeschooled high school football players, it's most likely because football is one of those sports that is offered almost exclusively by schools.

 

I don't like the stereotype that homeschooled students aren't athletic. My homeschooled kids are athletic nerdy intellectuals.

 

Tara

[Dmmetler]

I think there is a stereotype that homeschoolers are nerdy intellectuals, but plenty of homeschooled kids love sports. Mine are heavily involved with hockey. If there is a lack of homeschooled high school football players, it's most likely because football is one of those sports that is offered almost exclusively by schools.

 

I don't like the stereotype that homeschooled students aren't athletic. My homeschooled kids are athletic nerdy intellectuals.

 

Tara

 

 

Athletic, yes-but I can't think of many homeschoolers who play football, as opposed to soccer, swimming, volleyball, track, gymnastics, dance...And this is in a community where it's common for boys to start football at about age 4, so it's not that there aren't opportunities. You simply don't see many homeschooled kids at pee wee football (or in rec cheer, for that matter-my DD is on a team of 24 girls, and she's the only one who's homeschooled). And yes, some of these other sports evaporate at high school level too, so it's not the case that parents are picking sports that their child can continue into high school.

 

It just seems that homeschoolers are more likely to choose a sport because they enjoy it-and that this means that it's unlikely that you'd end up with them JUST on the football team (which is what most of the commenters on Tebow articles seem to assume-that homeschoolers are going to come in droves and take their child's spot away).

[Samiam]

Athletic, yes-but I can't think of many homeschoolers who play football, as opposed to soccer, swimming, volleyball, track, gymnastics, dance...And this is in a community where it's common for boys to start football at about age 4, so it's not that there aren't opportunities. You simply don't see many homeschooled kids at pee wee football (or in rec cheer, for that matter-my DD is on a team of 24 girls, and she's the only one who's homeschooled). And yes, some of these other sports evaporate at high school level too, so it's not the case that parents are picking sports that their child can continue into high school.

 

It just seems that homeschoolers are more likely to choose a sport because they enjoy it-and that this means that it's unlikely that you'd end up with them JUST on the football team (which is what most of the commenters on Tebow articles seem to assume-that homeschoolers are going to come in droves and take their child's spot away).

 

Huh...sounds like you might want to expand your world a bit. Come on down here to our small-ish city, where we have a homeschool football team. About 25 boys on the varsity team and 40 on the middle school/JV team. We played other homeschool teams from all over 3 different states (we are in the corner where three states meet) with the same type of numbers.

 

Sounds to me that YOUR child doesn't want to play high school football, so thus YOU don't have a lot of knowledge about what is happening in regards to homeschoolers and high school football. That's like me saying there's probably not alot of homeschoolers who want to participate in gymnastics or dance. Umm, I have no knowledge of either, none of my children participate so I have no idea about the sport or how many homeschoolers want to participate at higher levels. I'd be talking out of my a$&, so to speak. I would ask how often you go to the Pee-wee football games, and how often you go there and ask who is a homeschooler? I am assuming that you do this since you are able to say that there are not many homeschoolers participating??

 

My son ENJOYS football. As a matter of fact, although he excells at baseball, ie picked for All-Stars, participates in hard core travel teams, if you ask him his favorite sport to play, it is football.

 

So there's one homeschooler to add to the your short list.

 

Sadly though, the homeschool teams here just do not get exposure, so it's unlikely that any of the members will even get the chance to think about going to college to play regardless of how good they may be. And yes, there are many many smaller colleges that have football teams too, we are not just talking Division 1 huge schools.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Samiam

[Haiku]

And this is in a community where it's common for boys to start football at about age 4, so it's not that there aren't opportunities.

 

Where I live, kids can play football through community-based organizations until they are in 3rd grade. Once they hit 3rd grade, the football teams are school based. If the district superintendent allows kids to participate in school activities, homeschooled kids can play football. If, like in our district, the superintendent doesn't, then homeschooled kids simply can't play football.

 

Tara

[Caroline]

Here in CO, it works like this: if the child is failing and the parents pull him, he is ineligible. We can report test or eval results to any district, but where you report is where you play. Quite simple. If the kid wants to play soccer for Loveland and football for Boulder--can't do it. And I believe that you can't switch back and forth every year, though I am not sure about that. The psers can't move to play for South one season and East the next. If a student plays for Boulder football, but wants to swim for Loveland, the parents can't pull him--well, they can pull him but he's ineligible for that season except in the school he started with.

 

 

So you don't have to play for the school your child would go to if he/she was attending public school according to where you live?

[Spy Car]

http://www.timtebowbill.com

 

 

Many of your questions answered on faq page.

 

Hypothetically speaking I'm in favor of extending opportunities to home educated students to participate in programs offered in the local public school including (but not limited to) sports programs.

 

There are some "practical problems" including eligibility rules that present a real problem, and here the "answer" in the Alabama Tim Tebow bill website FAQ is beyond inadequate:

 

Homeschoolers would have to play by the same academic eligibility rules as any other team member.* On the one-page Florida form, the parent must fill out the student’s relevant grades, sign, and notarize the form.* That is a legally binding attestation to the validity of the statements therein.* Just as when any other student is found to be ineligible for any reason, a home-schooled student can be removed from a team or sport.**

 

Is it technically possible for a parent to be dishonest in this respect?* Of course it is.* But how many parents would decide to make the tremendous sacrifice that might be necessary in order to homeschool the child just so they could lie in this manner.* It is naïve to believe that this could ever be a big problem.*

 

If the supporters of this bill really want to claim that sports-mad parents falsely claiming their children are academically eligible isn't a huge problem, and those who would doubt it are naïve, then they are really out-of-touch with reality or flat-out confabulators of the truth.

 

The "self-reporting" and "self-accreditation" by family of student eligibility would create a huge gap in eligibility rules. Any parent who feared their child would not meet grade expectations could simply declare they a "homeschoolers" (whether home education was happening, or not) and could declare their child "eligible" with a signature. This is a problem. The proponets of this bill are living in fantasy-land on this point.

 

I suppose a system of third-party testing could be instituted to prove (or disprove) academic eligibility, but I suspect many home school parents would object more to "testing" than lack of access to sports teams.

 

I'd be very open to ways to include home educated children in public school programs. But one can't deny reality in the process.

 

Bill

[Dmmetler]

And if you go on teaching boards, you'll see that a lot of teachers report that "No Pass, No Play" means "don't fail our star athletes". Around here, eligibility never seems to be a concern, but there are high schools where a majority of their varsity major sports athletes struggle to pass the state exams, and they're not exactly New York Regents exam level.

 

I'm sure there will be students who have parents willing to lie so they can play sports-after all, there are students who have teachers and administrators willing to lie so they can play sports, and there are parents in my area, now, who claim to be homeschooling their child only to get around truancy prosecution. But the fact is, that sort of dishonesty has it's own reward-counting on a professional career in sports is about like counting on a winning lottery ticket, and if the student doesn't have high school level skills, it's very likely that they'll end up living with the parents who lied for them for much of the rest of their lives. While if a school/administrator lies to keep a student eligible, they're not going to have to face the long-term consequences nearly as directly.

 

While I can see this as a potential problem, it's not a valid reason to bar HS'd kids from extra curriculars and athletics any more than dishonestly from school personnel is a reason to bar public schooled kids from athletics and extracurriculars.

[Haiku]

While I can see this as a potential problem, it's not a valid reason to bar HS'd kids from extra curriculars and athletics any more than dishonestly from school personnel is a reason to bar public schooled kids from athletics and extracurriculars.

 

Yup. Anybody who thinks top athletes are actually held to academic eligibility requirements is naive.

 

Tara

[Mrs Mungo]

I suppose a system of third-party testing could be instituted to prove (or disprove) academic eligibility, but I suspect many home school parents would object more to "testing" than lack of access to sports teams.

 

 

Why do you think that? The homeschool National Honor Society requires third-party testing, many organizations do. Parents might object to applying one testing standard across the board, but I doubt many of those who desire to participate would deny the value of testing to prove eligibility.

[TXBeth]

Why do you think that? The homeschool National Honor Society requires third-party testing, many organizations do. Parents might object to applying one testing standard across the board, but I doubt many of those who desire to participate would deny the value of testing to prove eligibility.

 

As long as the PS students have to take the same test. If a teacher signature is enough for ps kids it should be enough for HS kids. Parents are no more likely to inflate grades than teachers of star athletes.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Yup. Anybody who thinks top athletes are actually held to academic eligibility requirements is naive.

 

Tara

 

Two starters on a nationally ranked high school team here in GA were just declared ineligible for the second half of the season. It does happen, and much more frequently than you think.

[Mrs Mungo]

As long as the PS students have to take the same test. If a teacher signature is enough for ps kids it should be enough for HS kids. Parents are no more likely to inflate grades than teachers of star athletes.

 

I don't disagree. I was only addressing Spycar's statement.

 

We choose to take our children to public school and teach them at home. I do not think that public schools we have the right to choose the activities of our CC will participate, regardless of the taxes we pay.

 

:confused:

[Donna]

If the supporters of this bill really want to claim that sports-mad parents falsely claiming their children are academically eligible isn't a huge problem, and those who would doubt it are naïve, then they are really out-of-touch with reality or flat-out confabulators of the truth.

 

Yes, they would be very out of touch.

 

I know some sports-mad parents who held their 8th graders (with good grades) back an extra year simply so they will be more mature physically for their sport before they enter high school and then further into college...basically red-shirting high school. I think sports-mad parents would do anything they felt would benefit their children's sports "career."

 

However, in the long run I don't think it would be a large number of people deciding to homeschool then put their kids in ps sports because of grade ineligibility...so not that big a deal in the long run.

[zaichiki]

No. It would just mean that someone worked harder. Not everything that affects us is actually about us.

 

Tara

 

:iagree:

[In2why]

Interesting. I know plenty of people who homeschool for reasons that have nothing to do with academics. I know plenty of people (myself included, in the case of dd17) who send kids to school for reasons that have nothing to do with academics.

 

I don't think we should restrict homeschooling to those who do it for academic reasons. Those who do it for religious, cultural, health, social, athletic, or other reasons should have a place, too, and not be looked on negatively for it.

 

Tara

 

 

Perhaps I wasn't clear. I meant people who have no intention of any type of schooling, but only taking advantage of being able to quit "schooling" so that they can continue with sports if they didn't meet the public school requirements and calling it homeschooling. If academics aren't in there somewhere near the top of the list, it might be home schooling, but it isn't anything I would want to be labeled homeschooling, in case that brought more regulation on the rest of us. Although I guess the could call it radical unschooling, and the child could do nothing but train for football and call it school. I am sure there is learning in there somewhere. But if that became a norm, even I would support more standardized testing and reporting.

[In2why]

Well, I think a kid who isn't getting even a 2.0 probably doesn't have a supportive family that wants to homeschool him, but I could be wrong. As for the player wanting to play for a different district it doesn't work that way. If you are homeschooled you play for the school you would normally be zoned for.

 

 

Or you have a parent with dreams of their little man scoring an NBA contract and buying everyone a car. It really wouldn't matter if they wanted to homeschool him, they could bring him home and jsut say they were homeschooling. Not in states that have strong requirements, but there are many out there that don't, and some that do but are easy enough to cheat if you wanted. For example here in VA I am required to test, but for all the State knows I could be taking my kids tests. SO now I am wondering if the trade off is worth it. When I first read this thread I was firmly in the camp that homeschool kids should be allowed to participate, but Diane's post about her daughter dancing 7 hours a day, got me wondering (Not a judgement of that choice in the slightest, I think it is wonderful she is following her gift) about some of the kids and parents I have met throughout my years of having teens and coaching that I could easily see doing something just like the above.