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Why should homeschoolers be allowed to participate in ps sports?


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#51 Mrs Mungo

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 02:04 PM

So, you are so against allowing homeschoolers to participate in extra curricular at the public school that you are writing a letter in opposition to your representative? You feel so strongly that you don't want ANYONE to have that opportunity? Why are you so opposed? If you are opposed for your children that's one thing but why are you against anyone else being able to do so?

NJ just started allowing homeschoolers to participate in school sports. From what I've seen it isn't going to raise our taxes or have any effect except on the students who actually participate. Even if I didn't care one way or the other (which is the case for us since my kids are very young) I can't see being so opposed to it that I would be willing to actively work against it.


I agree. Even if I didn't want to participate, I would NOT actively campaign against allowing access for people who do want it.

#52 regentrude

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 02:06 PM

Because I pay for it through my tax dollars, even if I do not send my kids there full time.
So, why should my kids NOT participate?

#53 In The Great White North

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 02:07 PM

Why should homeschoolers be allowed to participate in ps sports?


For the same reasons ps students should be allowed to participate in ps sports: health, teamwork, discipline, dedication , etc of the future citizens.

I don't think the public schools owe us the right to pick and choose which activities our dc will participate in, regardless of the taxes we pay.


I suspect this opinion comes from too much propaganda from the NEA. The law in our state says otherwise. We can pick and choose classes, music, band,sports, etc. ANYTHING AVAILABLE FOR PS STUDENTS MUST, BY LAW, BY OPEN TO HOMESCHOOLED STUDENTS.

Here in Virginia it isn't the state so much as the Virginia Sports League. Their rules require that a child take certain classes and have certain grades, but home schoolers do not qualify. I feel that is another way of saying that I am not educating my child, and that home schooling is not a legitimate form of education.


The state is permitting this, therefore, it IS the state. It would be illegal here.

Why should there be any difference between sports and a graded music class? Why should one be okay but not the other?


No difference. Both are OK here and the ps funding system hasn't fallen apart.

Sports, and other "extracurriculars," are not "carrots" for keeping students in the ps system. Of the many reasons for funding school sports, providing an expensive reward for attending school has never been one of them.

#54 NotAVampireLvr

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 02:13 PM

I pay taxes to my school district.

I also have to "report" to my school district each year with portfolios, standardized testing certain years etc to their satisfaction.

So I guess if I had an interest in pursuing extra-curricular activities at the school district level, I'd certainly feel "justified" in doing so.


:iagree:

#55 ThisIsTheDay

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 02:13 PM

Why get your nose out of joint over it?


My nose isn't out of joint; I'm just looking for the other side.



Your opinion doesn't need to change. Just remember to refuse your kids should they ever want to opt-in to certain extra curricular activities at your local schools.

My parents refused me when I was in HS and I'm still mad about it at times.


I'd refuse my kids just as I would refuse other things they may want to do with which I don't think they are entitled. I'm the parent; I get to make those choices, and I wouldn't do it with the concern they might still be mad at me years later.


Even if I didn't care one way or the other (which is the case for us since my kids are very young) I can't see being so opposed to it that I would be willing to actively work against it.


As a homeschooler, I am interested in legislation that affects homeschoolers. I don't consider sending an email to my representative to be actively working against it, but perhaps you are right. If it's not something I'm in favor of, why should it matter to me? Does it hurt me, or really otherwise affect me in any way? Honestly, this might be the best point for me to consider in the thread. Thank you.

#56 AngelBee

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 02:14 PM

I'll take the unpopular view that homeschoolers have no place in public school sports. When I opt out of the p.s. system, I'm opting out of ALL of it. Period. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

jmho


This is an us vs them mentality.

We homeschool because academically, it better serves OUR family.

I am not "against" public schools just because we do not utilize their academic classes. I actually am a Head Coach of the Dance Team at a local high school. :)

For me, it is about community. We go watch the football games, donate books to middle schoool, and participate in clubs and sports. It builds our community....for all of us....regardless of how we choose to school our children.

#57 dirty ethel rackham

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 02:18 PM

Looking at the bill, it may seem like a good fit for Alabama, which seems to be a fairly highly regulated state. If I lived there, I would want equal access since I would already have plenty of intrusion into my homeschool. However in states where there is less interference, I fear that adding homeschoolers (especially making a statute that separates homeschoolers from other private schools) would invite lawmakers to stick their noses where they don't belong. In IL, we are de facto private schools - not by legislation, but by case law. We like the projections we have in being private schools. We tend to fight legislation that threatens our status as private schools. I realize that TX, having similar laws, doesn't seem to have this problem. However, the political environment in TX is very different than IL.

#58 GoVanGogh

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 02:19 PM

Well, I will go out on a limb here and say that I don't think homeschoolers should be allowed to play ps sports, but that is because I don't think sports have any right to be within the public school system in the first place.

I was pleasantly surprised to read in the paper today that a school in our (football-crazed) state has canceled their entire sports program to focus on academics. I wish more school districts would take such bold actions.
http://www.themonito...mont-south.html

#59 HSmomNY

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 02:23 PM

I think that homeschooled student should be able to participate in public school sports because the public school students need to learn how to work and play with people from different backgrounds and people who have had different experiences and those who may have different beliefs. Remember school is all about socialization. :)

#60 TaraTheLiberator

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 02:27 PM

The public schools are publicly funded for the benefit of all school-aged children. School-aged children, even those from families who have not enrolled them full time, should be able to benefit from these publicly funded institutions in the ways they see fit, be it part-time enrollment, access to curriculum/intervention services, extra-curriculars, or what-have-you.

Completely aside from the fact that many schools have a monopoly on the sports opportunities in their communities.

I don't think schools should have sports. I think they should be entirely community based. But given that they are not, then taxpayer-funded sports should be available to all.

Tara

#61 mamajag

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 02:31 PM

I didn't know I was going to homeschool from the beginning. We have public schools here that celebrate every year that they are not taken over due to failing standards by a large margin. They fail at educating my child, and I pay through property taxes for that school regardless and put in through my federal taxes as well. If I wanted my child to take part in extracurriculars, why should they be turned away? Most activities here have the parent pay for uniforms, hazard insurance, trips, etc. It's pretty much ps in name only aside from the building where the activity is held.

Personally, I have no interest in this. There is a very negative attitude towards education in this area, and I would rather my children not pick up on it. My now 3yo son was really excited when he learned his letters, numbers, and colors from just watching us do homeschool that he was calling them out in a quiet voice in WM and he gets dirty looks and parents asking me why I push him so hard. I don't. The boy is just a sponge and picks up on everything around him. I am trying very hard to put off his formal learning and only do OPGTR with him because he saw me doing it with the girls and understood from conversations that it is used to learn to read. He came up to me, pointed to the binder, and asked to learn to read. He even said please. How could I say no? You'd think from their reaction I beat knowledge into him. Around here, fun is king and no one has any idea learning can be fun. I think it's tragic. :(

#62 Dolphin

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 02:33 PM

Ladies, You have made some excellent points, if Day is not swayed by the arguments for this by now, she isn't going to be. I would let it rest and move on to something else.

Nicole

#63 bookfiend

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 02:33 PM

I would like for my boys to be able to participate in sports within the PS setting. However, I wonder - when sports participation is linked to academic performance/criteria. How will that be assessed fairly across the homeschool community? And you know the question will arise. I would not be willing to have an outside administrator evaluating our course selection or provide grade and test results. So while we would like to participate if it were offered, we would not be willing to pay privacy cost I'm certain would be demanded.

#64 In The Great White North

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 02:40 PM

However, I wonder - when sports participation is linked to academic performance/criteria. How will that be assessed fairly across the homeschool community? And you know the question will arise. I would not be willing to have an outside administrator evaluating our course selection or provide grade and test results. So while we would like to participate if it were offered, we would not be willing to pay privacy cost I'm certain would be demanded.


I have to send a letter to the principal saying they are "making satisfactory academic progress." That's it.

#65 dmmetler

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 02:40 PM

My DD's former (parochial) school principal suggested that DD could still participate in school sports and extracurricular activities and keep contact with her school friends. So we tried for Soccer season her first year of HSing. We found that it wasn't a good fit for us-so many of the social connections started during the school day and conversations extended that DD was simply outside the group. Not to mention regularly getting to the school, only to find that the practice had been cancelled and it had been announced at school, but no one had told me (one mother did start texting me when her daughter called her to let her know that she needed to be picked up from school-which I appreciated). DD wasn't in the team picture because they simply called the girls from their classrooms to do the pic. And so on. In many, many ways, DD simply wasn't part of the team because she wasn't attending that school. Another homeschooler in our homeschool group did the same thing for her two daughters (at a different school), and had the same effect-even though her DDs had been in school with those kids much longer than mine had (she had a 2nd grader and a 6th grader when she pulled them out), they still very quickly became not part of the group.

I can't imagine that this wouldn't be worse for, say, a high school football or basketball player who is homeschooled. It might be worth it if you're Tim Tebow and are likely to make sports your career, or if it were the only way to play that sport/activity, but for now, I feel it's better to stick with the activities open to the community-and if DD really wants to play a high school sport only available through the schools, we'd have to seriously consider sending her to PS for those grades.

#66 AngelBee

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 02:41 PM

I have to send a letter to the principal saying they are "making satisfactory academic progress." That's it.


:iagree:

#67 swellmomma

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 02:41 PM

It's not an option here in Alberta, Canada.

In fact, I'm fairly certain that it's not an option in any province in Canada, but not 100% on that.

And yes, we pay taxes to the schools too.


:iagree: Which really sucks when you live in a small town with no community sports. THe next town over has a couple but to really get to do art lessons, or drama or most sports, and most music (for less than $75/hour) you have to be a ps student. It was easier in the city there was lots of homeschool options and community options but out here you are either in the ps and having activities or you are not. Even some of the community options are sponsered by a special counsellor thing at the schools and so only students can go to them. Each of the 4 schools K-12 public and catholic have 1 of these workers. The 4 will plan an activity that is advertised as a community thing but really only is if your child is enrolled in a ps anywhere in the region. So if I lived 2 hours away but was still registered as a ps student anywhere in the region I could attend, but if even if I live down the street in the community but hs nope. THese things are not even held at the school. They are movie nights held at a building owned by a church, youth drop in times (where young teens can hang out with supervision and play games, have snacks, play pool etc) that is every Tuesday after school at a building owned by a church we are not allowed to use it. The kids can not do the afterschool cooking class even though I would be paying for it (they made an exception last year since I worked in the school). They can't go swimming at the pool at the time this team books for a "community" swim which is really only for ps families etc.

I think in cases like that, where it is a small town, my property taxes go to the school, and things are happening outside of school hours and being claimed to be "community" things my hs kids should be allowed to participate. I am the only hs family in my entire town. The next town over there is a handful more so the vast majority of kids are ps which is why they call these thing community things, they are combining all 4 schools so to them it fits their criteria, but they are leaving out about 30 mixed age kids from homeschool families, we do not have enough hsers to create our own activities.

Anyway that is my long winded reason why I thing as hsers we should be able to access ps extracurriculars/sports

#68 mamajag

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 02:44 PM

You can't be serious! After all the other taxes I pay for things which I don't agree, and you think I'd have a problem with public schools?:D


Believe it or not I do have a problem with it. If I were paying taxes for a voucher system where every child in the U.S. gets an equal amount of funding for educational purposes, I would not complain. However, my area ps spends $10,500 a student to stay just above being taken over. People routinely graduate functionally illiterate. There is kid on kid violence even in elementary school. I think it's time to face the fact that public schools in many places are complete failures. If they had to compete for tuition with other private schools and homeschool situations, they would either get better quickly or go broke. Right now our area ps is a giant free daycare center. Give me a voucher system and I won't use what I am not paying for. :)

My homeschool budget is $2,500 for 3 kids. Oh the things we would do with 10.5k each…school trips to Europe, computers that aren't on their last legs, more projects and documentary films, more reading material, etc. I was at the school board meeting where they were discussing raising property taxes for the schools again, and when I stood up to ask about funding per student, it made me really mad that they were failing with that sort of budget, and I told them so. Thanks in large part to my story of my homeschooling and my budget along with our experience in ps, the measure was a failure as the room turned against them.

#69 TaraTheLiberator

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 02:45 PM

They have both a sort of a la carte option and a "homeschool" classes where they teach music, art, have field trips, etc.


I think public schools are going to have to do this in order to continue to exist in the long run. I honestly believe that the era of parents having no choices in their child's publicly funded education (no choice in school, no choice in curricula, no choice in enrollment options) is coming to a close. Too many parents are dissatisfied with the results of the status-quo education. There is going to be a demand for more flexibility.

Tara

#70 Margaret in CO

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 02:46 PM

I would like for my boys to be able to participate in sports within the PS setting. However, I wonder - when sports participation is linked to academic performance/criteria. How will that be assessed fairly across the homeschool community? And you know the question will arise. I would not be willing to have an outside administrator evaluating our course selection or provide grade and test results. So while we would like to participate if it were offered, we would not be willing to pay privacy cost I'm certain would be demanded.


Do you have some links for what has been demanded to prove eligibility? We haven't found that intrusive behavior in CO. We send in an eligibility form once a week, stating that the athlete is not failing anything. The ps athletes send in one too, they just aren't aware that the ps teachers are doing that. No pass, no play.

#71 SparklyUnicorn

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 02:48 PM

It's not an option here, but because everyone pays into it I think it should be. I'm not particularly interested in it, but I know others are.

That said, I can see the difficulty in allowing homeschoolers to participate because of rules regarding grades and playing. Since I can essentially make up whatever grades I want my kid could always be assured to be allowed to play.

#72 In The Great White North

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 02:51 PM

We send in an eligibility form once a week, stating that the athlete is not failing anything. The ps athletes send in one too, they just aren't aware that the ps teachers are doing that. No pass, no play.


Ours in once per season. And the school kids have to be passing at mid term. Some courses aren't even graded weekly.

#73 ktgrok

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 02:53 PM

I'm choosing to separate myself, and that's not without hard choices. I can't have my cake and eat it, too.

I

My kids do participate in sports and extracurriculars, just not at school. We live in a small semi-rural town where options can be limited, but we work around those hurdles. IMO, that's the trade-off for choices we've made WRT homeschooling. It'd be nice to have "it all," but that's not realistic. So we make do.


I'll take the unpopular view that homeschoolers have no place in public school sports. When I opt out of the p.s. system, I'm opting out of ALL of it. Period. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

jmho


Why isn't it realistic? Why can't you have it all? We do in Florida. It hasn't been a problem at all. It works fine. It works fine in other places too. So why are people saying it isn't realistic?

#74 TaraTheLiberator

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 02:55 PM

If it's not something I'm in favor of, why should it matter to me? Does it hurt me, or really otherwise affect me in any way? Honestly, this might be the best point for me to consider in the thread. Thank you.


That is true. I don't wish to be restricted in my homeschooling to what those with the more/most conservative opinions feel is the best way to do so. I'm not asking those with differing opinions to do it my way, so I'd appreciate it if those with differing opinions don't attempt to curtail my opportunities.

FWIW, in my state the local superintendent makes the call as to whether homeschooled kids can participate in any way in public schools. Our superintendent doesn't allow it. I think this approach violates equal protection under the law, but then again I really don't want my younger kids to have anything to do with the culture and climate of the local public schools, so I wouldn't avail myself of the opportunity even if it were there. But I wouldn't advocate restricting others' ability to do so.

Tara

Edited by TaraTheLiberator, 22 January 2012 - 11:51 PM.
really horrific typo


#75 dmmetler

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 02:59 PM

And, having been an PS extracurricular sponsor, I can tell you that most of the teachers weren't figuring grades for each student-and if the students was generally trying and putting in an effort, they'd sign the card for them to participate. And these weren't high-profile activities, either-I can't imagine that there were many star football or basketball players who would have been deemed ineligible no matter HOW badly they performed in the classroom.

If anything, I would expect many homeschooled parents to be MORE rigorous about what they consider "making satisfactory progress" and MORE willing to pull kids from an activity due to academics not being completed. I know at least two homeschooled kids in DD's classes who have had the experience of sitting out in an activity class/practice while a sibling got to participate, due to unfinished schoolwork, and I've heard the instructors in both cases strongly back the parent on this. I've NEVER seen a PS student sitting out due to unfinished or unsatisfactory schoolwork.

#76 TaraTheLiberator

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 03:03 PM

I've heard the instructors in both cases strongly back the parent on this.


These parents are lucky, because one of my oldest dd's coaches encouraged my dd to cheat and lie in order to maintain her weekly eligibility for soccer. She was told on one occasion to cheat on an assignment, and on another occasion she was told to pretend to be sick to miss an exam she expected to perform poorly on. Because she had 3 school days to make it up, she would have been eligible to play in the game in question (a playoff game) before she had to make up the test.

Tara

#77 Margaret in CO

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 03:04 PM

We have had ineligible swimmers--and it really hurts the team. When you lose a relay for two weeks in a row, well, that might just mean not making State. The great thing is that the ATHLETES then band together to make sure Susie-Q has her homework in on time and has studied for that pesky math test. It's a wonderous thing to see... :D

#78 Trish

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 03:04 PM

I don't understand, and I wonder if I'm missing an argument here.

I've always held the opinion that we've already opted out of ps; we shouldn't be allowed to handpick certain opportunities. Additionally, schools are not getting our tax dollars--ETA for my specific child to attend the school--, so they shouldn't be forced to absorb our students in team sports.

Please enlighten me. I know I can find insight and other valid POVs here.


You don't pay school taxes? How did you manage that?

#79 jdahlquist

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 03:07 PM

I pay property taxes to fund the school system, not because I have children, but because I own property. That money, however, does not stay within my local district. My district can only keep a "per student enrolled" amount; all additional tax revenue must be turned over to the state to fund schools with a lower property tax base. Therefore, by not having my child in ps, the school is not receiving any money to educate my child. I realize this varies from state to state, but in Texas, the school would receive more money if my child were enrolled. If everyone in the district decided to place their children in private school or home school their children, the district would get $0 even though we would all still have to pay taxes.

In cases like this, I don't see why a district should need to provide costly services for my children. When schools are funded in this way, I think strong financial reasons exist for NOT allowing students who are not enrolled in the district to participate in school athletics and other activities.

I think there is another strong reason for not having home schooled students participate in school district sports activities. The district mandates that students take certain classes, maintain certain grades, and follow code of conduct and behavioral guidelines to be eligible for sports and other extracurricular activities. I do not think it is fair for home schooled students to have a different set of rules. I don't think it is fair for an enrolled student not to be able to play in this week's game because he isn't passing XYZ class, when my home schooled child does not have to even take XYZ class. I don't think it is fair for an enrolled student not to be able to play in this week's game because he got in disciplinary trouble at school for being disruptive in math class, but if my homeschooled child is disruptive in math class this week, he doesn't have the same limit placed on him. I also don't think it would be a fair competition for the other teams. Suppose one team has several home schooled students whose parents let them sleep late and have an "easy" day to prepare for the big game while the other team had a lot of students who had to take a big geometry test the day of the game. What about the parent who allows the student to spend many hours per week in "PE" and only one hour per day on academic subjects? Public schools are limited to how many hours per day and week that students can be training for competition.

#80 SKL

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 03:07 PM

Why should ANY child have access to tax-subsidized after-school sports?

If there is some logic in it for ANY child, then how is that not applicable to EVERY child?

It seems that it should be fairly easy to administer the sports program in such a way that HS kids are included if they so choose. Excluding them would seem to be a penalty for homeschooling. Are schools in the business of punishing alternative educational choices? I don't think they should be.

#81 kalanamak

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 03:08 PM

If anybody ever actually gets around to starting a tax revolt over this I will be on board.


Unfortunately, there would be cheapskates who would pull their children for the break, and stick them in front of the TV. I work with people like this. I'm really sorry it is that way, but to have the break, I think there would have to be some sort of reporting. I'd be willing to keep doing the required standardized testing (in my state it is "required" but never asked for), and also sending it in for a tax break. But there are many here who would not want this level of reporting. To make everyone happy there would have to be an opt out for the tax break, and something to keep cheaters from doing a disservice to their kids.

#82 Laura in MI

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 03:13 PM

Here in Florida you can send the kid full time, or for just a few classes, or just one, or just for afterschool sports. Not an issue. For the first year we homeschooled my son went one day a week for the gifted pull out, and homeschooled the rest of the week.


That's what we have here too. We pay tax dollars for the schools, we should be able to use them as much or as little as we want. I think it's ridiculous that schools do not allow this.

#83 bookfiend

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 03:16 PM

I have to send a letter to the principal saying they are "making satisfactory academic progress." That's it.


Wow, this is much less invasive than I would have anticipated.

#84 DawnM

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 03:17 PM

I am a bit dumbfounded that any homeschooler would willingly send a letter asking their state to NOT allow homeschooled kids the opportunity to play sports with their local PS.

Why do you care about this so much? Why would you want to deny other hsers the opportunity?

Dawn

#85 AngelBee

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 03:21 PM

I am a bit dumbfounded that any homeschooler would willingly send a letter asking their state to NOT allow homeschooled kids the opportunity to play sports with their local PS.

Why do you care about this so much? Why would you want to deny other hsers the opportunity?

Dawn


:iagree: seems bizarre to me.

#86 eternalknot

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 03:21 PM

Why isn't it realistic? Why can't you have it all? We do in Florida. It hasn't been a problem at all. It works fine. It works fine in other places too. So why are people saying it isn't realistic?


I don't see FL as having "it all" - just a quick google of your requirements, though fairly minimal, still reflects an understanding that homeschoolers and public schoolers have agreed to work together jointly. In my original post, I said that these kinds of homeschoolers could/should expect to be able to participate in public school extracurriculars per laws initiated by the state (as far as regulating homeschooling to any degree).

My state has less restrictions/oversight than yours; as such, I feel it's not realistic to expect the state to stay out of my "school" whilst expecting the state's school to allow me unfettered access to its. We have no reporting, no notification, no portfolios to keep - nothing.

FL may be one of the easier states in which to homeschool, but it doesn't have "it all" by my personal standards (in which any regulation is too much regulation).

I have teen-aged siblings that are in or fresh out of high school, all participating in extracurriculars. I have nephews who will be in high school next year, playing sports for their schools. I have to decide down the road if my own kids would benefit enough from extracurricular participation to warrant putting them in private or public schools. It's not like this is a topic far from my heart :001_smile:

But at the end of the day, rather than ask the world to accommodate my personal desires, I'm owning that the decisions I make reflect certain sacrifices. To continue homeschooling in an unregulated state comes at the trade-off of being ineligible for public school extracurriculars. My choices are to move to a different state, to skip out on or find another sources for extracurriculars, or to enroll my kids so they become eligible.

And that's the reality of things from where I sit.

#87 TaraTheLiberator

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 03:25 PM

The district mandates that students take certain classes, maintain certain grades, and follow code of conduct and behavioral guidelines to be eligible for sports and other extracurricular activities. I do not think it is fair for home schooled students to have a different set of rules.


I think it's very easy to create a code of conduct that all children must adhere to, regardless of where or how they go to school. Above and beyond that, I don't think that grades should play a part in whether the child is eligible. Academics are academics and sports are sports, and I don't think they should intersect. Denying a poor student access to a well-rounded experience, including a physical outlet and some chance to shine (because many high school students get to play for their team because they excel at sports) in the area they excel in seems counter-productive to me.

Given that it works on the grades/behavior system, I think that homeschooled students should be held accountable for the grades/behavior in whichever way the administrator of their education (the parent) deems fit, just as the schools have created policies as they see fit. If that doesn't seem fair, consider that top high school athletes generally aren't actually held accountable to those standards, anyway, and are given special treatment that non-athletes/non-top-athletes don't have access to. "Fair" has nothing to do with it.

Divorce sports from schools is my long-held and continual mantra.

Tara

#88 PentecostalMom

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 03:34 PM

They may not be getting your child IN A HEAD COUNT, but they DO get fundin from EVERYONE'S tax dollars. We lived in Alabama last year but dh worked in GA, So we paid federal taxes,a dn takes in BOTH states to the tune of more than $12K. My kid(s) better get to do what they want!

However, I do not permit my children to play sports with the ps system. My ds is a gifted athlete, currently majoring in Sports and Exercise Science. He played for variosu homeschool organizations that had sports, and when those were not available we shelled out the $$ that private schools wanted for him to play there. The programs were much better at the private schools, though it may cost anywhere from $200 and up to play one sport for one season. He played basketball and soccer at a school that charged about $400, because the players all had nice matching uniforms, down to their socks and shoes. That part wasn't important, but since the coaches were paid better than their ps counterparts, he got better coaching. He also got more opporunities to play since the numbers on the team were not excessive.

#89 Jen in PA

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 03:39 PM

:iagree: seems bizarre to me.


:iagree: We can do extracurriculars -- sports, band, science fairs, the spring musical. As homeschoolers we bring money into the district with nothing really going back out (as opposed to the cyber schooled kids who have $$$ follow them).

#90 TaraTheLiberator

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 03:44 PM

ask the world to accommodate my personal desires


You're not. Who owns the schools? The public. For whom are they in trust? For school-aged children. Publicly funded services should be available to all who meet the criteria. It's already a precedent that non-enrolled kids can receive school services. In fact, with regards to intervention services, it's the law. The schools can't have it both ways.

Tara

#91 AngelBee

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 03:50 PM

You're not. Who owns the schools? The public. For whom are they in trust? For school-aged children. Publicly funded services should be available to all who meet the criteria. It's already a precedent that non-enrolled kids can receive school services. In fact, with regards to intervention services, it's the law. The schools can't have it both ways.

Tara


:iagree:

#92 Sassenach

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 03:59 PM

1) In some states the answer is, "because it is the law."

2) In the other states there are 2 answers. A) "because the principal sees value in allowing it." or B) "there's no good reason."

If your question is why would a homeschooler want access to school sports, I have a different set of answers for you.

#93 justasque

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 04:00 PM

My homeschool budget is $2,500 for 3 kids. Oh the things we would do with 10.5k each…school trips to Europe, computers that aren't on their last legs, more projects and documentary films, more reading material, etc. I was at the school board meeting where they were discussing raising property taxes for the schools again, and when I stood up to ask about funding per student, it made me really mad that they were failing with that sort of budget, and I told them so. Thanks in large part to my story of my homeschooling and my budget along with our experience in ps, the measure was a failure as the room turned against them.


So for $2500 a year you are buying materials, and heating your home, and paying yourself a fair salary? Because if not, you're not making a fair comparison. Even $2500 per kid for three kids ($7500/yr) doesn't look like you are taking your time and skills into account. That's only $7 per hour, 6 hours a day, 180 days a year to cover your time, your materials, and your physical plant.

And remember that the $10K is an AVERAGE - if there's a seriously special-needs kid in your district, they're spending WAY more than $10K on that one kid alone.

Teachers don't work for the public schools for free, and the buildings don't heat and clean and maintain themselves for free.

Don't sell yourself short.

#94 dani3boys

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 04:13 PM

My kids participate in band which is a graded class at out ps. They have also participated in sports in the past, but they now play for local homeschool teams instead. Our local ps has been good about our kids participating in activities.

ETA: The school never asked for grades when my kids participated in sports.

Edited by dani3boys, 22 January 2012 - 04:23 PM.


#95 KungFuPanda

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 04:35 PM

I would like for my boys to be able to participate in sports within the PS setting. However, I wonder - when sports participation is linked to academic performance/criteria. How will that be assessed fairly across the homeschool community? And you know the question will arise. I would not be willing to have an outside administrator evaluating our course selection or provide grade and test results. So while we would like to participate if it were offered, we would not be willing to pay privacy cost I'm certain would be demanded.


I am a bit dumbfounded that any homeschooler would willingly send a letter asking their state to NOT allow homeschooled kids the opportunity to play sports with their local PS.

Why do you care about this so much? Why would you want to deny other hsers the opportunity.

Dawn


There are so many sides to this. In states where the governmet is already requiring formal assessment in the form of grades or testing, I believe those students absolutely should be able to participate in public school sports. They are IN the system. However, if you have the luxury of living in a hands-off state where these things are not required, I wouldn't submit to them for the sake of marching band or football.

I do see where public school athletes who are required to keep a certain GPA (not just be enrolled in the class) would find it unfair that Billy can play because his mom gave him an A. I KNOW homeschoolers who would abuse this system and not bench their underachieving athlete mid-season. I see a slipperey slope where schools first require assessment just of those who participate in school activities, then require these things of ALL homeschoolers.

I'd rather have no testing or assessment of homeschoolers than have the oversight that often comes with enrollment in public school activities. I don't think we should be refunded our school taxes any more than retirees or childless people. The benefit is living in an educated society. The benefit is that our neighborhood has a school available should we choose to use it. If the school is decent, there is the financial benefit of increased property values.

I'd prefer a complete hands-off system where you are in school or out and neither interferes with the other. However, if you're already providing grades or using a school-funded charter, you should benefit from that trade-off.

#96 NanceXToo

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 04:46 PM

So, you are so against allowing homeschoolers to participate in extra curricular at the public school that you are writing a letter in opposition to your representative? You feel so strongly that you don't want ANYONE to have that opportunity? Why are you so opposed? If you are opposed for your children that's one thing but why are you against anyone else being able to do so?

NJ just started allowing homeschoolers to participate in school sports. From what I've seen it isn't going to raise our taxes or have any effect except on the students who actually participate. Even if I didn't care one way or the other (which is the case for us since my kids are very young) I can't see being so opposed to it that I would be willing to actively work against it.


I agree. Even if I didn't want to participate, I would NOT actively campaign against allowing access for people who do want it.


I wouldn't avail myself of the opportunity even if it were there. But I wouldn't advocate restricting other's ability to do so.

Tara


I am a bit dumbfounded that any homeschooler would willingly send a letter asking their state to NOT allow homeschooled kids the opportunity to play sports with their local PS.

Why do you care about this so much? Why would you want to deny other hsers the opportunity?


:iagree: with all of this!

Why isn't it realistic? Why can't you have it all? We do in Florida. It hasn't been a problem at all. It works fine. It works fine in other places too. So why are people saying it isn't realistic?


And this, too. I don't really get all the "You can't have your cake and eat it, too" posts. What the heck else are you supposed to do with cake, anyway? :p The truth is, in many places, homeschoolers can and do participate in public school activities with no problems. If someone is in a place where that is allowed and they choose to participate... so what? And if you choose not to...so what? But purposely making an effort to ensure that other people don't even have that choice? WHAAAT? Really?!

You're not. Who owns the schools? The public. For whom are they in trust? For school-aged children. Publicly funded services should be available to all who meet the criteria. It's already a precedent that non-enrolled kids can receive school services. In fact, with regards to intervention services, it's the law. The schools can't have it both ways.


:001_wub:

#97 ktgrok

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 04:49 PM

I don't see FL as having "it all" - just a quick google of your requirements, though fairly minimal, still reflects an understanding that homeschoolers and public schoolers have agreed to work together jointly. In my original post, I said that these kinds of homeschoolers could/should expect to be able to participate in public school extracurriculars per laws initiated by the state (as far as regulating homeschooling to any degree).

My state has less restrictions/oversight than yours; as such, I feel it's not realistic to expect the state to stay out of my "school" whilst expecting the state's school to allow me unfettered access to its. We have no reporting, no notification, no portfolios to keep - nothing.

FL may be one of the easier states in which to homeschool, but it doesn't have "it all" by my personal standards (in which any regulation is too much regulation).

I have teen-aged siblings that are in or fresh out of high school, all participating in extracurriculars. I have nephews who will be in high school next year, playing sports for their schools. I have to decide down the road if my own kids would benefit enough from extracurricular participation to warrant putting them in private or public schools. It's not like this is a topic far from my heart :001_smile:

But at the end of the day, rather than ask the world to accommodate my personal desires, I'm owning that the decisions I make reflect certain sacrifices. To continue homeschooling in an unregulated state comes at the trade-off of being ineligible for public school extracurriculars. My choices are to move to a different state, to skip out on or find another sources for extracurriculars, or to enroll my kids so they become eligible.

And that's the reality of things from where I sit.


And if you were in Florida, and were not willing to trade the minimal oversight they require (a form letter signed by an evaluator - most are homeschooling parents themselves- that says the student has made adquate progress) than you could sign up under an umbrella school (many are free with zero requirements) rather than register as a homeschool student with the county. So we do have it both ways....if you want services you register with the county. If you don't you register under an umbrella school.

#98 TranquilMind

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 05:03 PM

I don't understand, and I wonder if I'm missing an argument here.

I've always held the opinion that we've already opted out of ps; we shouldn't be allowed to handpick certain opportunities. Additionally, schools are not getting our tax dollars--ETA for my specific child to attend the school--, so they shouldn't be forced to absorb our students in team sports.

Please enlighten me. I know I can find insight and other valid POVs here.

This is not true. Believe me, the school system is taking and taking and taking taxes from you if you own real estate. I pay the equivalent of taxes for 7 single family homes, due to a tax abomination in my state, even though I have never used the school system at all, until last year.

I wish I'd never used it at all, but that's another story.

#99 freesia

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 05:14 PM

I don't see FL as having "it all" - just a quick google of your requirements, though fairly minimal, still reflects an understanding that homeschoolers and public schoolers have agreed to work together jointly. In my original post, I said that these kinds of homeschoolers could/should expect to be able to participate in public school extracurriculars per laws initiated by the state (as far as regulating homeschooling to any degree).

My state has less restrictions/oversight than yours; as such, I feel it's not realistic to expect the state to stay out of my "school" whilst expecting the state's school to allow me unfettered access to its. We have no reporting, no notification, no portfolios to keep - nothing.

FL may be one of the easier states in which to homeschool, but it doesn't have "it all" by my personal standards (in which any regulation is too much regulation).

I have teen-aged siblings that are in or fresh out of high school, all participating in extracurriculars. I have nephews who will be in high school next year, playing sports for their schools. I have to decide down the road if my own kids would benefit enough from extracurricular participation to warrant putting them in private or public schools. It's not like this is a topic far from my heart :001_smile:

But at the end of the day, rather than ask the world to accommodate my personal desires, I'm owning that the decisions I make reflect certain sacrifices. To continue homeschooling in an unregulated state comes at the trade-off of being ineligible for public school extracurriculars. My choices are to move to a different state, to skip out on or find another sources for extracurriculars, or to enroll my kids so they become eligible.

And that's the reality of things from where I sit.

And then there is NY, which is regulated to a ridiculous degree, in our schooling business in all regards--plans, quarterlies, end of the year. . . and allows us to take part in nothing.

#100 mom2scouts

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 05:18 PM

The majority of my property tax bill goes to the school district whether my children are there or not and per child money is not what pays for sports. In my area, because of middle and high school sports, there are very few opportunities for sports beyond 4th - 6th grade. They think that kids who want to continue in sports will just play at school.


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