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R&S grammar vs. Analytical Grammar vs. HAKE


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#1 Nakia

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 10:27 PM

We have always used R&S for grammar, but we are thinking a change is in order for next year. Honestly I'm tired of it, but I will continue if it's the best thing for the girls. Would anyone like to share your opinions?

This will be for next year (I know, I'm ridiculous). My daughters will be in 4th and 7th grades and have used R&S for 1 year and 4 years respectfully. I am looking at AG for the oldest and Jr. AG for the 4th grader.

Someone else mentioned HAKE for grammar. This one is totally new to me. I don't even know where to go to see samples. I'd like your thoughts on that too.


Much thanks!!

#2 Ellie

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 11:28 PM

Here's the Hake website. :)

Here's your factoid for the evening: Steve Hake co-wrote the early Saxon books with John Saxon; in fact, the titles used to be Hake Saxon 54, Hake Saxon 65, Hake Saxon 76. Not sure about 87. :)

#3 Nakia

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 11:39 PM

Here's the Hake website. :)

Here's your factoid for the evening: Steve Hake co-wrote the early Saxon books with John Saxon; in fact, the titles used to be Hake Saxon 54, Hake Saxon 65, Hake Saxon 76. Not sure about 87. :)


Very interesting.

Do you have any advice for me?

#4 Ellie

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 11:55 PM

Very interesting.

Do you have any advice for me?

Not really. R&S and the other two are all good; it just depends on you. :)

Personally, I'm an Easy Grammar/Writing Strands kind of gal. :D

#5 happygrrl

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 12:22 AM

We were R&S people. When #3 came of age, I could not do R&S another time. I could not! I kept putting off starting for 'next week' (guilty admission).

Enter AG! I LOVE AG! (yes, I know I am yelling! :D) In fact I cannot count how many times I have told dh that I wish I loved all subjects as much.

The kids are retaining it better than ever, with no eye rolling. They do it rather independently as I bought the videos. Love them! I am surprised at how much better they are learning grammar, with way less work. We have even found ourselves discussing the sentence topics during dinner, as they are that interesting.

With those results in mind I just bought JAG for my youngest (dyslexic so below grade in LA). He absolutely loves it! I am very happy with AG and JAG!

#6 smilesonly

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 12:37 AM

:lurk5: :bigear: ;)

#7 smilesonly

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 12:40 AM

We were R&S people. When #3 came of age, I could not do R&S another time. I could not! I kept putting off starting for 'next week' (guilty admission).

Enter AG! I LOVE AG! (yes, I know I am yelling! :D) In fact I cannot count how many times I have told dh that I wish I loved all subjects as much.

The kids are retaining it better than ever, with no eye rolling. They do it rather independently as I bought the videos. Love them! I am surprised at how much better they are learning grammar, with way less work. We have even found ourselves discussing the sentence topics during dinner, as they are that interesting.

With those results in mind I just bought JAG for my youngest (dyslexic so below grade in LA). He absolutely loves it! I am very happy with AG and JAG!


videos?? that teach diagramming?

WHY??? (i'm yelling,too!:D) do you love AG so much?? the reviews are so mixed.:willy_nilly:

#8 rwjx2khsmj

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 09:12 AM

We've been using R&S for grades 2-5 and AG after that. It's worked perfectly.

All the R&S is done aloud and if they can get a sampling correct for each concept we move on. For the youngers, I like the immediate feedback of oral work and the incremental approach of R&S even if it is boring for me. Really, if I were entertained by 2nd grade grammar something would be wrong. Repetition is necessary for the grammar stage. I already know this stuff. Who cares if I'm bored?

AG is great to allow the olders to work independently and have more control over their own schedule. An added bonus of AG is that it's expanded my daughter's reading interest. She diagrams sentences from book and then has to go get the book to read so she can find out the rest of the story. Love that!

Both programs give a more than solid grammar education.

#9 MamaBear

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 09:16 AM

:lurk5:

#10 lauriej

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 12:08 PM

Nakia, we have used Analytical Grammar and Rod and Staff. Both are very good. As you know, R & S is very thorough, but the things we didn't like are that it's a bit dry and you have to write everything out on paper (no workbooks). Also, my oldest didn't not enjoy the "thous" and "thees" that accompany the religious material in the text.

Analytical Grammar is a bit pricier, but the book lasts you three years. The kids don't love it, but they like that it's only a few weeks a year that they have to go through before it's done. It is excellent for diagramming skills. They also like that it's a workbook format so they don't have to write everything out by hand. I think it does a very thorough job of teaching grammar in a very efficient way. We will continue to use this each year. The short coming with this program is that it doesn't focus enough on capitalization and punctuation (for us, anyway). There is a mechanics supplement that will cover that, but my kids were tired of the AG format and are protesting using any more AG this year. So I am also looking at Hake Grammar. It seems to include more punctuation and capitalization than most programs and doesn't look too heavy (since it's coming on the heels of AG, we need something a little less dense) but is still thorough. Of course, that is just where our needs are. This might not apply to you. I would like to hear other's opinions on Hake Grammar myself.

In short, between AG and R&S, I personally prefer AG.


Good luck with your hunt!
Laurie

#11 Mallorie

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 12:35 PM

I just bought Hake for my 5th grader and AG For my 8th grader. We are finishing our first week, and we have some catching up to do. Both of my boys are math and science geared, so grammar has always been nothing short of painful. They love to write, though. :/

Hake is simple, quick. I would say it is definitely the grammar counterpart to Saxon math...it shows. We are having no difficulty jumping in at the 5th grade level. My hope is that it will be a good lead-in to AG next year.

So far, i'm finding AG easy to use as well. It is a different approach than Hake, but simple and straightforward and my ds is realizing grammar is not that bad. I didn't get the videos because I'm confident in my grammar skills enough to help him, and mainly, because I didn't want to spend more money in case I hated the program. Glad to see some feedback.

I like both programs so far, they are a fit for where my boys are at. We have not reached the writing portion of Hake. I am going to see how that goes, if it is a flop (or even if it's not) I will likely do another round of Writing Strands over the summer. My kids seem to enjoy writing in the summer more, so that's part of my reason.

If I could do it all over again (and am doing this with my dd in 2nd) I would use Primary Language Lessons, followed by Intermediate Language Lessons until 6th or 7th and then jump into AG. My reasons are that PLL and ILL are not drill and kill on the grammar, but rather show the kids how to use their words to make stories, poetry, punctuation, etc. Proper mechanics without taking it apart in such a way to turn them off of language. It's been gentle, fun, and adequate.

I had a recent freakout about grammar, as I have a high schooler starting next year. So I researched like mad, bought those two programs and can now see that it's going to be fine. :)

ETA: I read where people who really like AG did not care for JAG. I don't know why, and I didn't buy JAG, but wanted you to be aware that the opinion is out there.

Edited by Mallorie, 13 January 2012 - 12:39 PM.


#12 Nakia

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 12:52 PM

Thank you for sharing!! I have another question. I know AG is meant to be used over 3 years, grades 6-8, correct? If I will be starting a 7th grader in the fall, can I get it all done in two years?

#13 happygrrl

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 12:54 PM

videos?? that teach diagramming?

WHY??? (i'm yelling,too!:D) do you love AG so much?? the reviews are so mixed.:willy_nilly:


My children seem to be natural grammarians, so Rod and Staff was becoming overkill. AG is simple and straightforward, without being shallow. The sentences are very engaging. This is their only course in workbook format, and I think they appreciate the break in copying as well.

The kids are also at the age where they enjoy independent work. About the videos- honestly, they could do the course just as well with out them, they just happen to like them! Perhaps it goes along with the move toward independence. My ds has asperger's and needs audible and visual instruction simultaneously. This videos give them that, without him having to wait on me (like his little brother, who is doing JAG, does).

I personally love that this one course works well for both my Aspie son and my bright daughter. I love that it only takes minutes a day, and yet sticks better than any grammar we tried (up to and including R&S). I like that they are learning how to do their work without me. Best of all, I like that we are discussinmg grammar outside of their LA hour!

(We are only just starting JAG. So far so good, and ds likes it. I can give a better review in a few months)

#14 Mallorie

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 01:08 PM

Thank you for sharing!! I have another question. I know AG is meant to be used over 3 years, grades 6-8, correct? If I will be starting a 7th grader in the fall, can I get it all done in two years?


That wouldn't be a problem at all. There are instructions for that in the teacher guide. We're starting halfway through 8th grade. I figure we finish it when we finish it, and will then do the high school reinforcement after that. My ds will be doing enough literature next year and the years after to count for his graduating LA credits.

#15 Homeschooling6

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 01:10 PM

Thank you for sharing!! I have another question. I know AG is meant to be used over 3 years, grades 6-8, correct? If I will be starting a 7th grader in the fall, can I get it all done in two years?


My 12yr. old dd (6th grade, late Sep. b-day :001_smile:) just finished *Season 1 and will start Unit 2 next week. After *Season 2 she'll take a break and continue *Season 3 in the fall.

My 13yr. old will not take any breaks. He is still in Season 1 and will continue with *Seasons 2 and 3, hopefully he'll finish by the start of next school year which will be high school :001_huh:.

Edited by Homeschooling6, 13 January 2012 - 03:32 PM.
*


#16 Nakia

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 09:09 AM

Thanks for your responses. I'm still confused, but thanks for your responses. :lol:

#17 kandty

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 09:50 AM

:lurk5:

I am looking at Hake and AG (and MCT) for next year too.

#18 Murrayshire

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 10:15 AM

I pulled my daughter out of PS after her 5th grade year. She has been using Hake Grammar 6 for sixth grade.....It has been working just great and she doesn't seem to be getting bored with it. She does her lessons independently and I only budge in when needed. I like how Hake has the Dictation or Journal, 2 vocabulary words each lesson, the lesson itself with practice, then review of everything she's been learning. My dd has learned alot just in these 4 months from Hake Grammar....Sometimes I'll just give her odd or even for the Review set or I'll circle the problems that I know she needs more practice on.....Just so she isn't being grinded with lessons that she already has under her belt.
I was also looking into AG for her next year but Hake is working, dd is happy, so we may just continue with 7th grade.
**Oh, we do not use the writing portion for it....it's probably fine, but too dry for us......

#19 Bloggermom

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 03:56 PM

I am so TORN between going with Hake or Analytical Grammar. Anyone who has tried both and had to go from one to the other?

#20 Nakia

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 11:00 PM

bump

#21 atozmom

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 09:04 AM

We started AG even later than you will Nakia, 9th grade here. We spread it out over two years and it has been great. The program is broken down into seasons (1,2,3). We didn't start until late into her 9th grade year so we did Season 1 that year and are doing Season 2 and 3 this year. Below is taken straight from the AG website so you can see what is in each season.

Season 1 - Units 1-10: Parts of speech, parts of the sentence and the basics of sentence diagramming

Season 2 - Units 11-17: All the phrases and clauses (this completes the study of grammar)

Season 3 - Units 18-34: All the rules of punctuation (commas, semi-colons, colons, quotations, etc.) and usage (who or whom, I or me, etc.)


When we finished season 1 last year, she worked in the Review and Reinforcement book for the rest of the year. This kept everything fresh until the next year. There are exercises for each Season, reviewing everything they have learned up until that point. This is the first program that has really "clicked" for her. It is very easy to teach and each lesson is finished quickly. I have been doing it alongside of DD and have been enjoying it. We will be using one of their High School Reinforcements books next year to make sure that nothing is forgotten.

I have been so impressed with the program that I plan on doing JAG with my son in a few years. I really wish I would have started earlier with DD (hesitated for a coupe of years because of the price) but it all worked out fine in the end.


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