Grammar stage to Logic? (and an intro)

[Elohcin]

How do you know when a child moves up?

 

I know that it is gradual. I have been planning and thinking of my 10yodd in grammar terms, but she is really throwing me some harder questions and really wanting more from her studies. I want to challenge her, but not overwhelm her. I also don't want to make the shift too soon.

 

So, is there some checklist? I know that may seem silly, but I love checklists. If not, is there a really good description of the stages somewhere? Otherwise, please, please someone enlighten me. This is new territory, uncharted territory and I have no idea what it looks like. Thanks.

 

BTW I am Nichole. I am mostly a board reader and on occasional question asker and commenter. I have been on the boards for (wow) 5 years now. I have been blessed more times than I can count by the women (and men) on these boards. I used to go by Nichole but now have changed to ndniki. I have 5 children, three homeschooling, one extraordinarily busy 3yrds and a baby dd . This is my 5th year homeschooling. We are just starting TOG and using VP as well (for memory and books). We love Singapore math, LFC, and R+S Grammar.

 

I appreciate any advice and help. Thanks.

[Guest]

You asked the same question I have! I hope someone can answer us. I have read the Logic stage section of TWTM but would also like a checklist. Mine have always asked why? what does this mean? and hard questions so that doesn't help me know if it is time to move up or not.

[Kathie in VA]

Well, I'm no expert. My oldest is only 13, 7th grade. I haven't seen a specific checklist but I can share *my* ideas. I think of grammar, logic, rhetoric as the stages of learning anything. Even as an adult I realized that I go through the same three stages. When I started homeschooling and heard the about some method called "classical education" I had some reading to do. I needed to learn the lingo; I needed to understand what was meant by grammar, logic/dialectic, rhetoric, copywork, dictation, history cycles, etc. As I got the basic terms down and noted how they varied I gradually shifted into the logic stage to understand why it is considered better then other education methods. etc.

 

However for teaching the kiddos, I think of them as areas to focus on as well as age. In the grammar stage (grades 1-4ish) *I* think we are focusing on learning the facts of a given subject.... answering what happened, where and when it happened. But as you both stated, the kids do ask why it happened. In *my* opinion, that's fine.... and answering it is fine. In fact I think it's a good idea to gloss over the whys even in this stage. As they get older and move into the dialectic stage the main focus shifts from learning what/where/when to learning the whys. Now there will still be basic facts to learn but the focus will be on the whys.

 

So it seems that if your dc is asking why, check to see if they know the grammar of what they are asking (who, what, when, where) IF they have enough of that then it really can't hurt to begin to study why. Reading different opinions of a topic can fun. Reading primary sources is great, especially if you can find some on different opinions of the given topic. Journals and biographies from the time period in history that you are studying may be good as well. Perhaps instead of writing a narration on what happened or what they read, they can write about why the event occurred; or compare and contrast topics.

 

This is also a great time to start those logic puzzles like Mindbenders or something.

 

Well, that's probably more than enough from me. Perhaps someone else with more experiance can help. ... or you can post on the High School board... now that's a place with experianced folks.

[Trivium Academy]

By fifth grade, a child's mind begins to think more analytically. Middle-school students are less interested in finding out facts than in asking "Why?" The second phase of the classical education, the "Logic Stage," is a time when the child begins to pay attention to cause and effect, to the relationships between different fields of knowledge relate, to the way facts fit together into a logical framework.

 

 

A student is ready for the Logic Stage when the capacity for abstract thought begins to mature. During these years, the student begins algebra and the study of logic, and begins to apply logic to all academic subjects. The logic of writing, for example, includes paragraph construction and learning to support a thesis; the logic of reading involves the criticism and analysis of texts, not simple absorption of information; the logic of history demands that the student find out why the War of 1812 was fought, rather than simply reading its story; the logic of science requires that the child learn the scientific method.

from http://www.welltrainedmind.com/classed.php

 

 

 

http://www.triviumpursuit.com/articles/the_logic_level.php

 

 

 

The good thing is that you can feed a little at a time to see if it's a fit.

[Alana in Canada]

I'm so glad you raised this question!

 

It's always good to start looking a few years down the road, to make sure we're equipped when we get there.

 

The Classical Christian Education site is a favourite of mine. Here's the link to what it has to day about the logic or dialectic stage (scroll down to it): http://www.classical-homeschooling.org/trivium.html#dialectic

 

Here is the overview with links to subjects and curriculum: a bit dated, but it gives you some very specific ideas about what to plan for.

http://www.classical-homeschooling.org/dialectic/index.html

[dangermom]

SWB said at a recent seminar that you could tell when a kid started saying "How do you know?" :D Kids enter the logic stage at different times in different subjects, so you have to watch carefully. A kid who's good at science might be in the logic stage there but still in grammar in something else.

[Elohcin]

Wow, thanks for the great advice. I didn't even think that she could be logic in some stages and grammar in others. Lots of food for thought.