Bang!Zoom! Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 ? Brand, book, page, price? Make it simple? 3rd grade science worthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tammyw Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 My kids want a microscope for Christmas. The ones that seem to be recommended most here are: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000Q768K8/ref=ox_sc_act_title_8?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER and Home Science Tools (they have many, here is just one nicer one): http://www.hometrainingtools.com/home-1000x-microscope/p/MI-4100DXL/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HejKatt Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 HSBC is also taking suggestions for a microscope group buy. This was in their email this morning: It has been many years since we did a Group Buy for microscopes. As you probably know -- and especially when it comes to microscopes -- you get what you pay for, and we aren't interested in doing a Group Buy for the cheap stuff you get in the big box stores. IF we can find a supplier, we will aim to get good quality microscopes -- at least as good as the ones you would find in a traditional private or public school. We don't have a specific website for you to check out, but let us know: What do you think? (Question links to website below): http://www.homeschoolbuyersco-op.org/interest-meter/?_id_12=Microscopes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama2two Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 We just bought this one from home science tools and so far are very happy with it http://www.hometrainingtools.com/home-microscope/p/MI-4100STD/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morosophe Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I'm drooling over the Sonlight Ultra Microscope. I don't own it (yet), so I can't really tell you much about it. The page is really informative about all the "extra" features it has, though, so at least you can learn a little more about microscopes. It's very pricey, though--$230.00. Just a heads up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHomeScientist Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I'm drooling over the Sonlight Ultra Microscope. I don't own it (yet), so I can't really tell you much about it. The page is really informative about all the "extra" features it has, though, so at least you can learn a little more about microscopes. It's very pricey, though--$230.00. Just a heads up. If you're willing to pay something in that range, you'd be better off with the National Optical 131-CLED, which HST sells for $210 (a pretty competitive price). Add the $30 optional mechanical stage and you're good to go. I wrote elsewhere about this microscope: "This scope [...] can serve a student from middle school or junior high school through high school, excepting AP biology. [...] this scope provides very good optics and mechanicals. The only major missing feature is the 100X oil-immersion objective, which is needed for cell biology studies in high school AP biology courses." HST also carries a line of private-labeled microscopes, which at any particular price level have more features than the National Optical models, but are inferior optically and mechanically, and have shorter warranties. If I were you, I'd go with a National Optical model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justLisa Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 THis thread came at the right time. I know my kids both would like a microscope. They are 5.5 and 7. I am thinking of getting a very nice one that will take us through our schooling rather than a couple of cheaper ones just for playing around with. Do I need two? I'm trying to remember my bio days from school and how many were in a classroom. It seems we always did things in smaller groups with one microscope. I certainly cannot afford to buy two that are $2-300 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Critterfixer Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 My plan for fourth grade is to buy a refurbished scope through our microscope servicing company. I don't think I could do without oil immersion--it's just way, way too cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morosophe Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 If you're willing to pay something in that range, you'd be better off with the National Optical 131-CLED, which HST sells for $210 (a pretty competitive price). Add the $30 optional mechanical stage and you're good to go. Why in particular is it any better than the Sonlight microscope, which includes the mechanical stage in its price, and so is about $10 cheaper, not considering the shipping. (Also, you can get the 100xr lens for the Sonlight microscope for an additional $100.00. Can you do something like that for the National Optical 131-CLED?) I'm not really trying to defend Sonlight, here; I just want to know what is superior about the brand you prefer. Is it just that it has LED lighting, and why would you consider that a better choice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nukeswife Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 We just bought this one from home science tools and so far are very happy with it http://www.hometrainingtools.com/home-microscope/p/MI-4100STD/ :iagree: We have this one too and I bought the mechanical stage for it as well. My FIL who was a high school biology teacher for decades said it was an excellent microscope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyP Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 :bigear: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama2two Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 :iagree:We have this one too and I bought the mechanical stage for it as well. My FIL who was a high school biology teacher for decades said it was an excellent microscope. My husband's uncle, also a biology teacher, said the same thing. We odn't have the stage though, looks like a great addition, thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lejardin Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I've researched microscopes here in the past and found some good information but it's like a new language! We haven't purchased one yet and are considering it as a Christmas gift for DD this year. At HST there are no reviews for the National Optical mentioned above. I would like to know more about the upgrade for the Home MI-4100std. It's available with an iris diaphragm and 1000x maganification. Are these features valuable for later sciences (high school) or just nice-to-have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tammyw Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 If you're willing to pay something in that range, you'd be better off with the National Optical 131-CLED, which HST sells for $210 (a pretty competitive price). Add the $30 optional mechanical stage and you're good to go. I wrote elsewhere about this microscope: "This scope [...] can serve a student from middle school or junior high school through high school, excepting AP biology. [...] this scope provides very good optics and mechanicals. The only major missing feature is the 100X oil-immersion objective, which is needed for cell biology studies in high school AP biology courses." HST also carries a line of private-labeled microscopes, which at any particular price level have more features than the National Optical models, but are inferior optically and mechanically, and have shorter warranties. If I were you, I'd go with a National Optical model. Which HST microscope would you recommend for around $300 or so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbkaren Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 THis thread came at the right time. I know my kids both would like a microscope. They are 5.5 and 7. I am thinking of getting a very nice one that will take us through our schooling rather than a couple of cheaper ones just for playing around with. Do I need two? I'm trying to remember my bio days from school and how many were in a classroom. It seems we always did things in smaller groups with one microscope. I certainly cannot afford to buy two that are $2-300 My son is 6 and we haven't come to the point where we have needed a microscope for anything but curiosity. For that, this fit the bill, in spades! http://www.amazon.com/Carson-Digital-Microscope-Optical-Safari/dp/B001GIDW2S/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1319225176&sr=8-1 At one point, they were selling the green one for $20 so I bought one and we love it. They're $40 now but seriously, it's instant fun! Everything from looking at a living bug, to our own ears and navels (a life-changing experience), this gadget is big fun. The only downside is it has to be connected to the computer (the image is blown up on the screen; you can save screen shots and I believe, video as well). But if you have a laptop, that'd make it more portable. Love this little thing, and this forum is where I found out about it! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHomeScientist Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Why in particular is it any better than the Sonlight microscope, which includes the mechanical stage in its price, and so is about $10 cheaper, not considering the shipping. (Also, you can get the 100xr lens for the Sonlight microscope for an additional $100.00. Can you do something like that for the National Optical 131-CLED?) I'm not really trying to defend Sonlight, here; I just want to know what is superior about the brand you prefer. Is it just that it has LED lighting, and why would you consider that a better choice? The first thing to understand about inexpensive microscopes is that they're all Chinese-made. The second thing is that Chinese quality control across the board is terrible. A production line can turn out a pretty decent microscope followed immediately by a truly awful one. Unfortunately, they make a whole lot more bad scopes than good ones, and whether you get a good one or a terrible one is a crapshoot. That's true for just about any private-labeled microscope. National Optical is a US company that owns a Chinese plant that produces microscopes under various brand names, including National Optical and Swift. (IIRC, that plant also manufactures Leica-branded scopes.) National Optical then imports those microscopes in literally pallet-loads. They open each box and run their own quality-control checks before they ship a scope. I know many people who have purchased National Optical scopes, and I've never heard anything but praise from those buyers; conversely, I also know many people who have been disappointed by generic Chinese scopes. Incidentally, in case you're wondering, I have absolutely no interest, financial or otherwise, in National Optical. When I was consulting with Maker Shed (which I haven't been for a couple years), we sold a lot of National Optical models. As far as I remember, we never had so much as a complaint, let alone a return. I think you're wise to consider getting a scope that has a 100X objective in addition to the standard 4X, 10X, and 40X objectives. That gives you 1000X magnification, which is almost essential for AP biology work. Such a scope can be used all the way through high school. I don't believe that HST carries it, but the National Optical model 134-CLED is essentially the 131-CLED with the 100X objective and a standard mechanical stage. The 134-CLED is widely available from on-line microscope dealers for roughly $100 more than the 131-CLED. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 (edited) This one is also highly recommended on the forums here and is American made :D: http://www.magiscope.com/ We just bought the full package (package IV) from Rainbow a few months ago and I love the fact that it is tough since I have little hands that are using it ;) and you can easily take it with you on field trips etc. We love it so far :)! Edited October 22, 2011 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHomeScientist Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 I've researched microscopes here in the past and found some good information but it's like a new language! We haven't purchased one yet and are considering it as a Christmas gift for DD this year.At HST there are no reviews for the National Optical mentioned above. I would like to know more about the upgrade for the Home MI-4100std. It's available with an iris diaphragm and 1000x maganification. Are these features valuable for later sciences (high school) or just nice-to-have? The iris diaphragm isn't a big deal. It allows you to adjust the diaphragm opening continuously, while the cheaper disc diaphragm has a set of circular holes that allow you to adjust the diaphragm opening in steps. I'd prefer the iris, but having the disc doesn't really hamper you noticeably. The 100X objective (which yields 1000X magnification with a standard 10X eyepiece) on the other hand is a big deal. A 400X scope just doesn't offer enough magnification to view details in bacteria and other small cells. You can probably scrape by AP bio without a 1000X microscope, but it's much better to have one. In the $340 range, the HST Ultimate Microscope is a decent choice, but you can get the National Optical 134-CLED for about the same price (which is probably why HST doesn't offer the 134-CLED). The main differences are that 1. The HST UM has quartz-halogen illumination, which is brighter than the LED illumination of the 134-CLED (but is also much hotter, which dries out living specimens in pond water and so on). I prefer QH illumination to LED, as do most experienced microscopists, but this is a relatively minor issue. 2. The HST UM offers Köhler illumination, which the 134-CLED does not. Köhler illumination is a minor issue, primarily useful if you will be doing a lot of photography through the microscope. (Köhler illumination provides extremely even illumination across the field of view). For visual work, you don't need Köhler illumination. 3. The HST UM offers coaxial focusing, while the 134-CLED has separate knobs for coarse and fine focusing. I prefer coaxial, but this isn't a big deal for most people. I haven't seen the HST UM, but I'd expect it to be a decent scope. The only thing that concerns me is, again, quality control. On that basis, if I had $340 to spend I'd probably go with the 134-CLED because there's close to zero chance that I'd get a bad one. I don't know what kind of QC HST does themselves on the UM, or even if they do their own QC on it, but if I bought one I'd do some pretty rigorous testing on it once it arrived. Or, if I wasn't an experienced microscopist I'd get someone who was to check it out for me. Incidentally, in case anyone was wondering, my own primary microscope is a National Optical model 160, which I bought from HST. As a teenager, I had a superb older Zeiss microscope, which I sold after college. I was expecting the NO 160 to be a noticeable step down in quality both optically and mechanically, but I was pleasantly surprised by just how good the NO 160 is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 My kids want a microscope for Christmas. The ones that seem to be recommended most here are: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000Q768K8/ref=ox_sc_act_title_8?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER That's the one we have. I got it after some research and have been happy with it. It's my hope it will last us all the way through. Also, I like that Celestron has an optional piece you can add to view and take images on your computer. Nifty. I'm hoping to get that when we do biology, maybe next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChandlerMom Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 An iris diaphragm is a MUST for me! I like to look thru the scope while I change the illumination -- helps me see lots of detail I'd miss flipping thru disc (pinhole) type. I also wouldn't get anything but LED lighting -- safer for the kiddos, won't fry the specimen, and no bulb changing and coaxial focussing was another non-negotiable for me. Not saying those are "musts" for you, I am just mentioning 'cause what is "not a big deal" to one person may be a deal breaker for another. I'd educate yourself on features and decide what is important to YOU. All but a few very pricey (as in many thousands) are made in China (like everything else these days). I think the QC issues are overstated -- less true than 10 years ago. As to the Sonlight and such -- they aren't manufacturers, just resellers who have the plant in China slap a sticker with their name on it. Most US homeschool resellers don't do any QC or checking, so why pay more? I have a Barska stereoscope and a microscope.net biology scope (straight from China! LOL The importer is a chinese american who got his ed in the US). Mine came with the 100x immersion, but I didn't attach it to the scope -- too easy for my kids to break slides with it and they don't need it yet. As long as your scope uses standard objective lenses, you can switch one out later when they need it (or leave the cover on the turret like I did). I also got a scope with a reversed nosepiece -- just means the turret "leans" the other way, which makes it easier to get slides on/off for the kiddos. Not a necessity, but nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tammyw Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 It sounds like the 134-CLED is the way to go! I found it here for $334 free shipping. I'm having a hard time finding many online stores that carry it though. If anyone has a recommendation, please post for those of us interested! http://benzmicroscope.com/store/view-item-list.aspx?PlacementID=119 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHomeScientist Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 It sounds like the 134-CLED is the way to go! I found it here for $334 free shipping. I'm having a hard time finding many online stores that carry it though. If anyone has a recommendation, please post for those of us interested! http://benzmicroscope.com/store/view-item-list.aspx?PlacementID=119 Good choice, and that's a good price, particularly with free shipping. You might want to verify with Benz that they're in fact selling the 134-CLED. The image and description they have for the 134-CLED shows a microscope without a mechanical stage, which is standard on the 134-CLED. I suspect they just used the wrong image and messed up the description. Here's the National Optical page for that scope: http://nationaloptical.com/products/compound/models/134-CLED.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tammyw Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Good choice, and that's a good price, particularly with free shipping. You might want to verify with Benz that they're in fact selling the 134-CLED. The image and description they have for the 134-CLED shows a microscope without a mechanical stage, which is standard on the 134-CLED. I suspect they just used the wrong image and messed up the description. Here's the National Optical page for that scope: http://nationaloptical.com/products/compound/models/134-CLED.html I'll check that! My husband asked about a binocular head? He thinks we *need* that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHomeScientist Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 I'll check that! My husband asked about a binocular head? He thinks we *need* that. A binocular head is one of those nice-to-have features, but there's nothing you can do with a binocular head that you can't do with a monocular head. The problem with buying a binocular head is that it's a pretty expensive feature, so at any given price level you end up getting a binocular scope that's optically and/or mechanically inferior to what you would have gotten by going with the monocular head. With inexpensive Chinese scopes, a binocular head typically amounts to a $75 to $150 option. In my opinion, if you're going to spend $75 to $150 more on a scope, you'd be better off going with a monocular head and getting better quality and/or features for your money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tammyw Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 A binocular head is one of those nice-to-have features, but there's nothing you can do with a binocular head that you can't do with a monocular head. The problem with buying a binocular head is that it's a pretty expensive feature, so at any given price level you end up getting a binocular scope that's optically and/or mechanically inferior to what you would have gotten by going with the monocular head. With inexpensive Chinese scopes, a binocular head typically amounts to a $75 to $150 option. In my opinion, if you're going to spend $75 to $150 more on a scope, you'd be better off going with a monocular head and getting better quality and/or features for your money. Thank you for that information! I'll pass it along to my husband :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3lilreds in NC Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 In the midst of all these knowledgeable people, I will put in my plug for the Brock Magiscope. Rainbow Resource sells packages with varying lens options. If you want to keep it simple, this is your microscope! It's tough and very easy to use. I started looking at microscope options and read lots of reviews and suggestions here. It made my head hurt and I must confess that I don't know what an abbé condenser is or why on earth I might need one. :lol: It happened that mom2legomaniacs was selling her Brock, so I got it from her and I am thrilled. If you're not amazingly science-y, as I am not, I think it's ideal. It says it can take you all the way through high school science. I know mom2legomaniacs was upgrading to a more complicated scope, but she is into that stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iucounu Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 I'm drooling over the Sonlight Ultra Microscope. I don't own it (yet), so I can't really tell you much about it. The page is really informative about all the "extra" features it has, though, so at least you can learn a little more about microscopes. It's very pricey, though--$230.00. Just a heads up. You might very well be able to get it for less by finding out the actual manufacturer and buying it separately. It would be good to find out this info in any event just to be able to find some impartial reviews. Sonlight obviously doesn't make the microscope; it's a rebrand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HejKatt Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 HSBC is also taking suggestions for a microscope group buy. This was in their email this morning: Bumping this thread, HSBC also launched their GroupBuy for microscopes. https://www.homeschoolbuyersco-op.org/index.php?option=com_hsbc_epp_order&Itemid=1641&c=1 Models: National Optical model 109 LED National Optical model C1028 National Optical 450 Series 20x/40x LED Stereo Accu-Scope 3080 National Optical 134-CLED ($308.88 + 22 s/h + 1.95 co/op fee = $331.83) Accu-Scope 3002-LED-R Binocular Microscope For the 134-CLED at least, the price was competitive with tammyw's below so some considerations could be this supplier's reputation, when it ships (group buy ends 12/1) and possibly sales tax (charged for OH residents). Just forwarding this information - I have only had positive experience with HSBC, but I don't benefit from mentioning this information (unless you count a +1 post count as a benefit :001_smile: ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHomeScientist Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Bumping this thread, HSBC also launched their GroupBuy for microscopes.https://www.homeschoolbuyersco-op.org/index.php?option=com_hsbc_epp_order&Itemid=1641&c=1 Models: National Optical model 109 LED National Optical model C1028 National Optical 450 Series 20x/40x LED Stereo Accu-Scope 3080 National Optical 134-CLED ($308.88 + 22 s/h + 1.95 co/op fee = $331.83) Accu-Scope 3002-LED-R Binocular Microscope For the 134-CLED at least, the price was competitive with tammyw's below so some considerations could be this supplier's reputation, when it ships (group buy ends 12/1) and possibly sales tax (charged for OH residents). Just forwarding this information - I have only had positive experience with HSBC, but I don't benefit from mentioning this information (unless you count a +1 post count as a benefit :001_smile: ). I haven't seen the Accu-Scope models, but I have seen all of the National Optical models HSBC is offering, and all of those are excellent choices in their price range and good value for money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHomeScientist Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 I was looking at the HSBC microscope buy too and wondering if anyone had feedback about the microscopes. My second question is how do the HSBC microscopes compare to Brock Magiscopes? The Brock Magiscopes are toy microscopes, not suitable for serious use. They are simple and rugged, which is good for elementary students, but for that purpose the National Optical 109 is a much, much better choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tammyw Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Thanks for posting this. When I first got the email from Homeschool Buyer's Co-op, I thought it was just the first (cheapest) one that was on sale. I didn't look closely enough. That is a good deal, and I like going through a well known entity rather than an unknown one. I'll probably put myself down for one here. Of course I'm also hoping we'll be able to figure out how to properly use it, and use it thoroughly. I'm sure we will, but of course my kids are only 8.5 and 5.5. In any case, it makes sense to buy a good one and only have to buy once, and hopefully everyone treats it well and gently. ETA: Has anyone looked at the slide sets for sale? Are they good? Can anyone give advice as to what "extras" we should buy, to get successfully started on using a microscope? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth in SW WA Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 I bought the Sonlight microscope here on the 'for sale' board years ago. It has served us well. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHomeScientist Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 ETA: Has anyone looked at the slide sets for sale? Are they good? Can anyone give advice as to what "extras" we should buy, to get successfully started on using a microscope? Prepared slides and sets vary from superb to truly miserable. The best ones are made by a US company, but I won't even mention their name because their prices are far more than most homeschoolers are willing to pay. As in $150 to $500 for a set of 25 prepared slides. Affordable slide sets come from China and India, and I've looked at a lot from both sources. Some of the Chinese slides are decent, but as always with Chinese-sourced items quality control is lacking, to say the least. (I've actually seen prepared slides from China that were missing the object supposedly present; an amoeba, IIRC). A set of 25 prepared slides from China typically costs $15 to $40, depending on the assortment. (I believe most or all of HST's prepared slides are Chinese.) The Indian slides I've seen are generally much better, but they also cost more, often roughly twice what Chinese slides cost. I'm facing this very issue right now, as I attempt to source specific sides for slide sets that we'll offer with our biology kits in 2012. I could put together a basic set of 25 slides and sell it for about $25 or $30 if I buy Chinese slides. If I use Indian-sourced slides, the set would have to sell for twice that. But for young children, you don't really need to buy any prepared slides. Instead, lay in a good supply of blank flat slides and coverslips and perhaps a couple of well slides (also called cavity or depression slides, and used for observing drops of pond water and so on.) For young kids, get plastic slides and coverslips rather than glass. Even the best plastic slides and coverslips are grossly inferior optically to decent glass slides and coverslips, but thin glass slides and particularly coverslips are simply too dangerous to have young kids handling even under adult supervision. Then just make your own slides from stuff you find around the house and yard. You can look at stuff like salt and sugar crystals, threads, bugs and bug parts, pond water, leaves, flowers, mold growing in damp areas, mosses, and so on. With a little imagination you'll never run out of stuff to look at. Also get a bottle of methylene blue stain, or you can simply use food color dyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morosophe Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 But for young children, you don't really need to buy any prepared slides. Instead, lay in a good supply of blank flat slides and coverslips and perhaps a couple of well slides (also called cavity or depression slides, and used for observing drops of pond water and so on.) For young kids, get plastic slides and coverslips rather than glass. Even the best plastic slides and coverslips are grossly inferior optically to decent glass slides and coverslips, but thin glass slides and particularly coverslips are simply too dangerous to have young kids handling even under adult supervision. Then just make your own slides from stuff you find around the house and yard. You can look at stuff like salt and sugar crystals, threads, bugs and bug parts, pond water, leaves, flowers, mold growing in damp areas, mosses, and so on. With a little imagination you'll never run out of stuff to look at. Also get a bottle of methylene blue stain, or you can simply use food color dyes. And to get kids interested, check out Greg's Microscope. And I mean that literally, if your local library has it. It's a great prep while your microscope is coming in the mail! (Not that we have a microscope, but we have read about Greg's.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tammyw Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Thank you Robert. Would you say homesciencetools is a good place to buy those items? Also, would you recommend a book to go with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHomeScientist Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Thank you Robert. Would you say homesciencetools is a good place to buy those items? Also, would you recommend a book to go with? Yes. HST isn't the cheapest source for most of the stuff they offer, but their customer service is excellent and I've never had a problem with anything I've bought from them. They offer a gross of plastic slides for $7 and 100 plastic coverslips for $3, which is reasonable both in terms of price and quantity. Incidentally, don't waste money on "starter kits" or "cleaning kits". They usually include stuff you don't really need, particularly the cleaning kits, and what's included is often junk. More microscopes have been damaged by cleaning than by dirt. You should never need to clean the objective lenses. You can clean eyepiece lenses (gently!) with a Q-tip and some Windex. Use a can of Dust-Off to blow off the dust, and that's about all the routine cleaning you should need to do. I keep my scopes under dustcovers, but even so I blow them off every time or two I use them. If the eyepiece lens has a rubber standoff (as it should), you might need to clean it every six months or a year. I don't remember the last time I cleaned objective lenses, except of course for the oil-immersion objective, which needs to be cleaned throughly after each use. I can't really recommend any beginning books for elementary students because that's much younger than the target audience for our own science books and kits. I see that HST offers a couple microscope books for that age range, and I suspect both are good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 The Brock Magiscopes are toy microscopes, not suitable for serious use. They are simple and rugged, which is good for elementary students, but for that purpose the National Optical 109 is a much, much better choice. Could you tell me what you base your statement that the Brocks are toys, on? Have you seen or used one? I am just curious :confused:!!!! You seem to be recommending specific brands and I am just curious if there is any personal interest there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Cross referencing this thread about the Brock: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=323190 I don't like talking about others behind their backs, so I felt it was necessary to post a link to other comments I made, where they can be seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHomeScientist Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Could you tell me what you base your statement that the Brocks are toys, on? Have you seen or used one? I am just curious :confused:!!!! You seem to be recommending specific brands and I am just curious if there is any personal interest there! Yes, I have seen and used one. The Brock Magiscopes are toys that are unsuitable for serious use because changing magnifications requires physically removing one lens and replacing it with another. Meanwhile, you've lost what you were looking at. Any serious compound microscope has a turret to allow changing magnifications instantly. When you're actually using a microscope, you change magnification very frequently. You might scan a slide at 40X to locate an object, then switch to 100X to verify that it's what you're interested in looking at, and then to 400X to examine fine detail in the object. You can't do that with the Brock, which renders it almost useless for serious work. And, to make matters worse, for the price of the Brock you can get a much more competent microscope from National Optical or any number of other vendors. As I've said elsewhere recently in a related thread, I have absolutely no financial or other interest in National Optical. I don't sell microscopes. I don't own stock in NO. I've been using microscopes since I was a teenager, 45 years ago. I've used everything from extremely costly German and Japanese microscopes to Chinese junk, and I know the differences. National Optical happens to be the best importer of Chinese scopes. They do a manual QC check on each scope before they ship it, and reject ones that don't meet their standards. For someone who wants to buy an inexpensive Chinese scope, a National Optical model is the safest bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HootyTooty Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Sorry to hijack, but I am finding this thread very informative. So if I wanted to take advantage of the HSBC sale, which would be the better choice? They are currently in grades 5 and K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Yes, I have seen and used one. The Brock Magiscopes are toys that are unsuitable for serious use because changing magnifications requires physically removing one lens and replacing it with another. Meanwhile, you've lost what you were looking at. Any serious compound microscope has a turret to allow changing magnifications instantly. When you're actually using a microscope, you change magnification very frequently. You might scan a slide at 40X to locate an object, then switch to 100X to verify that it's what you're interested in looking at, and then to 400X to examine fine detail in the object. You can't do that with the Brock, which renders it almost useless for serious work. And, to make matters worse, for the price of the Brock you can get a much more competent microscope from National Optical or any number of other vendors. As I've said elsewhere recently in a related thread, I have absolutely no financial or other interest in National Optical. I don't sell microscopes. I don't own stock in NO. I've been using microscopes since I was a teenager, 45 years ago. I've used everything from extremely costly German and Japanese microscopes to Chinese junk, and I know the differences. National Optical happens to be the best importer of Chinese scopes. They do a manual QC check on each scope before they ship it, and reject ones that don't meet their standards. For someone who wants to buy an inexpensive Chinese scope, a National Optical model is the safest bet. I respect that you have a right to your opinion about the Brock and I see some of your points (which are basically the points Dr. Nebel has made as seen in the other thread) but I think you have missed the point of the features that the Brock has and the benefit derived from them. While slowing down the process, I do not see them as flaws as much as you do given the benefits of taking it outdoors with you (which you cannot do with any conventional microscope) and having a scope that is virtually indestructible. The price of the materials (it is solid, not light weight like the toy one I bought for my son when he was five) and the fact that it is made in the US vs. the Chinese made products, I feel justifies the price and I am not even American :)! I also feel that calling the Brock a toy is uncalled for and is not justified by what you have posted here but that's just me. Promoting your science programs while putting down someones hard work does not jive well with my mentality. Thank you for taking the time to reply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 (edited) I posted this in the other thread and thought I would post it here too :D: Wow... and I guess Susan Wise Bauer and Jessie Wise are recommending toy microscopes for our kids for the Logic stage! For those that have the WTM 2004 edition like I do (I am not sure what page number in the previous and later editions), it can be found on page 396 under "Reference Materials for All Four Years" :D. Also, Susan Wise Bauer's name can be seen in the testimonials, in the Brock website here: http://www.magiscope.com/testimonials.htm ETA: This is in response to prior comments made about the Brock in this thread. It is not meant to be taken literally, should anyone read this post without reading the prior posts in this thread ;). Edited November 10, 2011 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joy at Home Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 I respect that you have a right to your opinion about the Brock and I see some of your points (which are basically the points Dr. Nebel has made as seen in the other thread) but I think you have missed the point of the features that the Brock has and the benefit derived from them. While slowing down the process, I do not see them as flaws as much as you do given the benefits of taking it outdoors with you (which you cannot do with any conventional microscope) and having a scope that is virtually indestructible. The price of the materials (it is solid, not light weight like the toy one I bought for my son when he was five) and the fact that it is made in the US vs. the Chinese made products, I feel justifies the price and I am not even American :)! I also feel that calling the Brock a toy is uncalled for and is not justified by what you have posted here but that's just me. Promoting your science programs while putting down someones hard work does not jive well with my mentality. Thank you for taking the time to reply. :iagree: We have used and loved our Brock for years. The benefits for us far outweigh any of the cons mentioned. I certainly would not call it a "toy". I did much research before buying one and I paid full price and it was well worth. With five little sets of hands using this over the years, the indestructibility factor alone makes it worth it. Lisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 For a rising 5th grader who will be studying Life Sciences next year, which one of the HSBC microscopes do people recommend? I know zero about microscopes--DH knows more, but I'd have to get him to sit down for a minute and discuss with me, which, given his schedule, is unlikely :D We'd like one that will ideally work through high school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Sorry to hijack, but I am finding this thread very informative. So if I wanted to take advantage of the HSBC sale, which would be the better choice? They are currently in grades 5 and K. :bigear: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 When we were looking to buy a microscope, and I saw the Brock mentioned on here and the features it had to offer (great for my younger crowd) I researched it specifically. I searched on the forums here and I also Googled for reviews. If you don't get any replies, that's something you could consider also. Then when you narrow it down to two, you could ask your husband ;). Not much help, I know, but at least I am giving you another bump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertmum Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 We just bought this one from home science tools and so far are very happy with it http://www.hometrainingtools.com/home-microscope/p/MI-4100STD/ I was given this name by another hs family in the Gulf. They only ship overseas if you are a U.S. citizen. We are British, so they won't service us. Anyone knows of a company which will ship overseas? P.S. Sorry to highjack the thread but I have been asking around with very little responsve and I don't kow if my question warrants starting a whole new thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetpea3829 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Hmmmm, when my 4 yr old asked if we could buy a microscope to he could "see little things bigger," I figured I might as well buy a decent microscope even though he is only 4. So I bought this one: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000NOU54O/ref=oh_o03_s00_i03_details Now I'm starting to wonder if I just wasted $60! LOL, I was thinking that was pretty expensive as far as microscopes go...apparently not! It hasn't arrived yet...but I'm hoping it will serve our purpose for the next couple of years until they're old enough for one of those fancy microscopes...lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanezomom Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 The majority of the microscopes mentioned are monocular. I have trouble closing an eye while leaving the other open so the stereo viewing looks easier. Any comments on this? How about this model: http://www.boldenmicroscope.com/servlet/the-164/National-Optical-450-series/Detail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHomeScientist Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Don't confuse "stereo" and "binocular". A stereo microscope (also called a dissecting microscope) uses two objective lens and two eyepieces to provide a three-dimensional view of the object. Stereo microscopes operate at low to medium magnifications, typically in the range of 10X to 40X. Some models have zoom, so you can vary the magnification over a range. A standard (compound) microscope uses only one objective lens to provide a two-dimensional view, but the image from that lens may be viewed with one (monocular) or two (binocular) eyepiece lenses. (Actually, there are trinocular models that have a binocular setup for one user and a third, single eyepiece for a teacher or to mount a camera.) Compound microscopes usually offer three, four, or five discrete magnifications, with 40X being the lowest and 400X or 1000X being the highest. Many people prefer a binocular compound microscope to a monocular, but the former does have some disadvantages. First, in models of similar optical and mechanical quality, the binocular model will cost significantly more. Second, if two or more people are using the microscope, the binocular model can be a pain in the butt. Each time the other person wants to use the scope, you may need to adjust both the diopter setting on the second eyepiece and the distance between the eyepieces. Third, unless the scope is perfectly adjusted, which they often are not in inexpensive models, the images from the two eyepieces may be just slightly out of sync. That may be so subtle you don't notice it, but it can lead to eyestrain. There is a quick, easy solution for you, if you don't mind looking like a pirate. Just buy an eyepatch with an elastic band. I picked one up at a toystore for a buck or so and have been using it for years for astronomical observing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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