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I read this blog today where a woman was discussing her method of homeschooling as being Tidal. As in ebbs and flows between more structured and more relaxed. Definitely describes our family. I love WTM and the structure in the book but in practice in our family it is not like that. I like the idea of unschooling or Waldorf, but again in practice my family is not like that. We are somewhere in between much like the woman in the blog. I have an eclectic blend of inspirations. Sometimes we get going on a highly structured plan and stick with that, working hard, happily draconian and at other times we just meander around following the kids interests, nothing structured just going with the flow so to speak. And there is times in where things are in between. I have noticed in my family since we began this journey 5 years ago that we were much this way and can really relate to the term tidal homeschooler. Is there anyone else here that has noticed a similar pattern?

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Yeah, totally. I spent hours last night planning the next school year. I made sure to leave a LOT of room for interest-led activities and schoolwork. We do use some curriculum (especially math, latin and language arts) and I have a framework of what time period we're studying. I also have a "suggested" book list (but I don't want to be tied down). If they are interested in something, I am perfectly fine with letting them explore.

 

I also get their ideas on what we could do to cover a subject. For example, we're studying the American Revolution...my son wants to work thru one of those Dover coloring books where you color the soldiers, etc. Also, he took a big box of Legos and made a battle map. Cool, Dude. :thumbup1:

 

Here's some of the stuff that's popping up lately in our house:

 

My 9 yro has been writing little guide books on how to take care of pocket pets. She's also working on a pamphlet about different kinds of plants. My 8 yro just reads and reads and reads :001_huh:. This sounds silly, but we started going to our downtown library every weekend so he could have a bigger selection. (I told him he's turning into Nat Bowditch! :tongue_smilie:)

 

Enough mindless rambling! We're eclectic and stuck in the middle with ya'! Ah, to fit in a category would be nice...sigh. Maybe we could be pioneers of our own homeschool style...the strange tidal homeschooling style... Lol.

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Yep, that's us too :001_smile:

Too rigid for the unschoolers, too slack for the classical educators, but just right for us ;)

 

ETA we never particularly planned to do the tidal thing, but that's how it seems to work out. We go very structured for a while, the kids get resistant and don't enjoy it any more after a time, so we ease off and let them do more of their own thing. The sooner or later they start to show signs of needing more structure again, and so it goes...

Edited by Hotdrink
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That's us. We tend to go in cycles. Some times we are more rigid and others we are more free-flowing. At times we could be the best school at home or Classical educators around according to our schedules and curriculum plans but at other times we go into Waldorf land or even just do the bare minimums so that we are almost unschooling.

 

:001_smile:

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I like it!

 

My mom told people we "hybrid" schooled about the time my daughter was 13ish. She figured that anyone using so many resources wasn't necessarily HOMEschooling anymore; but obviously, we didn't send our kids to school either. Hybrid schooling is where mom may teach some subjects, classes may be taken in a variety of places (co-op, online class, private school, college, etc), a child may decide to self-study, a computer program may be used, etc.

 

Anyway, but I like Tidal schooling. Much like the young lady mentioned in another thread (an article online from her), our homeschooling had periods of being this style or that style. Some of those styles were quite structured for a time. Some were so unstructured, people may wonder if it was schooling at all. The more structured times were very intentional. Many times, they were born out of fear. Certain more unstructured times were more intentional. Sometimes, we had a more natural ebb and flow. The only thing I was more conscious about was making sure we were conscientiously working towards reasonable and appropriate goals. I was determined not to fall into "do nothingness" (which is different than unschooling!) like the majority of local homeschoolers I met.

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I really like that article. Lissa reworked it for the book A Little Way of Homeschooling which is all about Catholics who unschool. The entire book was fantastic, but that essay and three more in the back of the book are from families like hers who don't consider themselves full unschoolers, but some kind of hybrid. There is one article there by Karen Edmisten and also by Faith who bills her family as "classical unschoolers" and is on the forums here some. I found those essays in the back of the book so helpful and refreshing.

 

Julie from Bravewriter also had a similar blog post out today. She called her style Rastafarian Homeschooling. :-) When she posted it on her Facebook page she commented about "putting the joy ahead of the stress." I think put the joy ahead of the stress is going to be my new mantra. No matter what we are doing -- structured, unstructured, sitting at the table or running in the world as long as we are putting the joy ahead of the stress all will be well.

 

Neat topic.

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I really like that article. Lissa reworked it for the book A Little Way of Homeschooling which is all about Catholics who unschool. The entire book was fantastic, but that essay and three more in the back of the book are from families like hers who don't consider themselves full unschoolers, but some kind of hybrid. There is one article there by Karen Edmisten and also by Faith who bills her family as "classical unschoolers" and is on the forums here some. I found those essays in the back of the book so helpful and refreshing.

I just read this book and to be honest, I found it really confusing. Not because I couldn't picture what the families were doing, but because I couldn't understand why many of them would describe themselves as unschoolers at all. Since the early days of homeschooling, there have been people who took a relaxed approach and used eclectic methods. This is typically described as relaxed or eclectic homeschooling (for obvious reasons :)). These terms seem to me to be a better fit for the families in the second half of the book, and perhaps even some in the first half.

 

Maybe they're trying to reclaim the word "unschooling" from the RU people? But they don't seem to be using it in John Holt's original way either. The author doesn't really define what she means by it, and the families themselves use it in all kinds of different ways. Many of which just seem like common sense. :confused:

 

----

What unschooling means to me is that we needn’t adhere to a model of school that doesn’t serve us.

 

----

With this addition of more structure, would I still call what we do unschooling? Yes, because our home is still an intimate, loving learning environment in which we discuss what is important and why it is important, with the people on earth who are most important to us. And this learning together, day in and day out, continues to teach me that my relationship with my children is more important than my curriculum choices for them.

 

----

And so unschooling is not the same as homeschooling. Home-schooling parents often designate a separate room and time for instruction, using a predetermined curriculum to push learning along at a set pace. They reward and punish their children for their performance and are really replicating most of the conditions of school, only placing the process in the home. (...) In contrast, parents who unschool might very well have their children take advantage of courses offered at a school.

 

----

 

Anyway, I do like Lissa's description of what her family does. And I appreciate that she made up her own term, rather than giving her own subjective meaning to another one. It's helpful for those of us who aren't into "undefining." ;)

Edited by Eleanor
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Well, the four families I referred to in the "back of the book" appeared in a section called "Unschooling and more." All of them, like the Tidal Homeschooler, spend some time unschooling and some time following other methods.

 

I don't agree that families in the book (or the author) are not doing unschooling as John Holt originally defined it. In fact, many of the chapters reminded me very much of the book Better Than School by Nancy Wallace, which I also read recently. Nancy was a contemporary of John Holt and a pioneer of the homeschooling movement. John often visited her family and came to her aid, advising her when she had to face the school board. While she considered herself unschooling it was certainly not radical unschooling as defined today. She sat with her kids and did planned work more days than not, yet she also followed their lead and allowed them time to pursue their own interests. It is a fascinating read and really makes me appreciate those who came before us and fought the establishment so we can do what we do.

 

You could also say they follow the Pat Ferenga definition of unschooling which is to "allow as much freedom as the parent can tolerate."

 

I have never understood why the labels mean so much? If these ladies want to call themselves unschoolers, that's ok with me. No one would call us unschoolers -- especially if they saw our curriculum list. I call us "us-schoolers." We just pick and choose and do what works for us in the methods that work for us.

 

Cheers,

Pam

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Well, the four families I referred to in the "back of the book" appeared in a section called "Unschooling and more."

That's interesting. In my book (Kindle edition), the section is called "More Catholic Unschoolers."

 

I have never understood why the labels mean so much? If these ladies want to call themselves unschoolers, that's ok with me.
I'm not a fan of the labels myself, but these families chose to label themselves this way, and the author is marketing it as such. As a stakeholder in both the English language and the homeschool community, it does affect me -- and everyone else -- when so much is written about a concept that seems to only have a vague, subjective meaning. I was hoping this book would bring some clarity to the way these people are using the term (which is something that's puzzled me for the last few years, when it started becoming popular), and was disappointed to find that it doesn't.

 

The way I'm reading it, most of the book just seems to be about Catholics who homeschool in diverse, often non-traditional ways. Which is great; I think we could use more books like that. :) I guess I don't know why they have to align themselves with a particular group. It just seems to perpetuate a situation that several of the women mentioned -- that is, mothers pigeonholing each other based on their use of a particular curriculum, or lack thereof. There's even something in the introduction about homeschooling being a spectrum with Seton on the right, unschooling on the left, and MODG in the middle. That image is just so one-dimensional that I can't wrap my head around it.

 

There were some other things I couldn't relate to. The book says over and over that unschooling means letting go of fear, but it seemed as if a lot of the women were ping-ponging between being anxious about not being "schooly enough," and being anxious about not being "unschooly enough." If anything, the essays seemed to support my own sense that confidence vs. insecurity is an internal thing that doesn't have much to do with one's choice of homeschooling methods. But maybe I'm missing the point. When I read homeschool books and message boards, it's mostly to learn about different theories and get practical advice. I'm not so much interested in getting emotional support and affirmation, or feeling part of a club. But these seem to be overwhelmingly important things to a lot of people.

 

This is probably why I have so few women friends. :leaving::D

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That's interesting. In my book (Kindle edition), the section is called "More Catholic Unschoolers."

 

You are correct. I should have verified that. The intro to the section does explain that they use unschooling as well as other methods.

 

The book says over and over that unschooling means letting go of fear, but it seemed as if a lot of the women were ping-ponging between being anxious about not being "schooly enough," and being anxious about not being "unschooly enough."

 

I've met very few homeschoolers who don't have fears about how they are teaching their children -- even ones who have been at it a very long time. If these ladies were totally confident, then I would be extremely suspicious. :)

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I've met very few homeschoolers who don't have fears about how they are teaching their children -- even ones who have been at it a very long time. If these ladies were totally confident, then I would be extremely suspicious. :)

I agree, and would add that this applies to other aspects of motherhood as well. It's just that I've read many books about parenting and education, and I've never seen one with so many expressions of anxiety. It seemed odd to me, especially coming side by side with all the exhortations to "fear not" and references to the gospels, St. Therese, St. John Bosco, Bl. John Paul II, etc. But like I said, I'm probably not the target audience. Judging by the positive reviews, it seems as if many people find this style of writing to be encouraging.

 

(I should add that Melissa Wiley wasn't among the contributors who came across this way. She ranks right up there with SWB, the Moores, John Holt, Drew Campbell, et al. in my pantheon of not-so-touchy-feely homeschool authors. ;) )

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I think the expressions of anxiety from me and the different women who contributed chapters were just part of their explaining how they evolved to the style of schooling that suited their family the best. I think all the contributers were just trying to be honest. The book is meant to encourage and soothe fears, which is, as you say, part of parenting, homeschooling, and if you are going even more against the stream by unschooling (or adapting unschooling influences into your family's learning style) so it is natural that one would talk about what is feared before one goes on to address how to be free of fear. I mean that is one common thread in the book.

 

I do notice that your oldest child, Eleanor, is 7. The moms writing in this book have unschooled kids through high school. That's a big challenge. They probably have encountered anxiety about raising their children that you haven't quite met with yet. Perhaps when your children get a little older, it might make it easier to relate to their stories. But perhaps not. No one book can speak to everyone after all!

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I think all the contributers were just trying to be honest. The book is meant to encourage and soothe fears, which is, as you say, part of parenting, homeschooling, and if you are going even more against the stream by unschooling (or adapting unschooling influences into your family's learning style) so it is natural that one would talk about what is feared before one goes on to address how to be free of fear. (...) They probably have encountered anxiety about raising their children that you haven't quite met with yet. Perhaps when your children get a little older, it might make it easier to relate to their stories.

Hi Faith,

 

It's not that I don't have anxiety at times (my husband has offered to write a testimonial letter confirming this :tongue_smilie:), nor that I think other people shouldn't talk about theirs if that helps them. It's just that I don't find this sort of talk to be a source of encouragement per se, especially when it's coming from many different people at once. [ETA: Just to clarify, I'm not referring to a scenario where people mention past troubles, then talk about how they overcame them. I'm thinking more of the people who still expressed a lot of ongoing anxiety many years after adopting their current style of education, and even right up to the present. It's all well and good to be honest, but this didn't seem to fit with all the pages of spiritual advice about "how to be free of fear."]

 

Different tastes, maybe, or different assumptions. Some women seem to find it reassuring to be told that other people have as many problems as they do. It's as if just hearing this gives them the confidence to go back about their daily tasks. And they like to hear it on a regular basis. I've noticed this in face-to-face gatherings, as well as online.

 

I guess I've always assumed that there are very few actual superwomen out there, despite all the masks, selective blog posts, and (to use the book's phrase) "five minute tidies" that most people tend to employ in their public lives. I don't think this makes me super confident. Maybe super cynical. ;)

 

When I read homeschooling boards or get involved with support groups, I'm looking for fellowship and an exchange of ideas. Quite often, though -- and especially among Catholics, for some reason -- it seems as if all I can find is reassurance that nobody else knows what they're doing either. Just kidding... I know that's an exaggeration... and at this point I'm not talking specifically about the LWoH book, least of all your lovely and thoughtful contribution. It's just that I'm feeling more and more that our community could use a big dose of solid direction, rigorous thinking, and leadership, to complement all the virtual hugs and cookies. :) Everyone's family is unique, but as Catholics, our educational goals and challenges are largely the same from one family to the next. But sometimes I feel as if it's the blind leading the blind... trying to re-invent the wheel... while going uphill like molasses in January... etc., etc.

 

Taking this even more off topic (sorry), I think it would be immensely helpful for fathers to be more involved in both the "high tide" and "low tide" aspects of homeschooling. Even if they're not at home during the day, I think they need to take an equal role in the vision and planning if this is going to be a true family thing. Not sure how to do this in real life, though. Even with the best intentions on both sides, it seems to be a pipe dream for many families.

Edited by Eleanor
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Hi Eleanor! Well, I think it is a matter of interpretation. I think taking guidance from a Doctor of the Church and things like the last chapter of the book where a philosophy professor from a classical Catholic college examines unschooling in light of his understanding is giving direction and rigorous thinking. I"m not sure the author of the book was especially interested in leadership. I think she's more into just illuminating an alternative learning style.

 

But it really is true that reasonable men can differ! And it really is true that no one book can speak to everybody! And it is interesting to hear different people's perspectives. So you are absolutely entitled to your opinion and I am willing die defending your right. LOL!

 

And to get back to the OP's point. Melissa Wiley really does rock!

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. Quite often, though -- and especially among Catholics, for some reason -- it seems as if all I can find is reassurance that nobody else knows what they're doing either... It's just that I'm feeling more and more that our community could use a big dose of solid direction, rigorous thinking, and leadership, to complement all the virtual hugs and cookies. :) Everyone's family is unique, but as Catholics, our educational goals and challenges are largely the same from one family to the next. .

 

Hi Eleanor!

 

I usually just lurk here but I wanted to jump in for a minute. It seems to me that from what I have read of papal encyclicals on education, the goals and challenges of Catholic education are:

 

--Preparing a child to know, love and serve Our Lord Jesus Christ.

--Using methods in line with true principles of human nature.

--The parents have the right and responsibility to choose the child's education, in accordance with a properly formed understanding of what the Church wants.

 

I think most Catholics are reticent to go beyond that because it would be beyond their proper boundaries.

 

Sure, we can help each other out and guide each other. But we can't make rules that the Church didn't make.

 

I think some of what you notice about Catholic hsers' hesitance to do more than encourage each other is because we want to empower the newer homeschoolers to make decisions using their own lights. But I can see why it sometimes looks like just uncertainty.

 

I think most of the Catholic unschoolers in TLWoH are quite sure they have found the best path for their own kids, but they hesitate to promote it as "the ONE way" because that wouldn't be in accordance with their understanding of what Catholic education is about.

 

Plus, I think they realize that some Catholics who want to unschool are somewhat anxious about whether it can work or not, or whether it can be Catholic or not, so they want to share their history with its anxieties in order to explain how they worked them out.

 

But to each his own, as you said! :001_smile: I use a mixture, myself.... I like unschooling principles but I also get energized by some schooly things :001_smile: The bottom line is trying to make my children the primary agents in their own learning, but how that works out seems to vary a lot within my homeschool.

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Oh, I was also going to say that many words that are valuable to the English language aren't easily defined in a rigorous, univocal sense.

 

Education is one. Try to come up with a definition everyone can agree with!

 

Classical is another :001_smile:

 

The fact is that education is an art, not a science. So rigorous definitions will not suffice. That doesn't mean that the word is meaningless -- it might be very rich, just not subject to scientific terminology.

 

Or that's what I have been thinking lately FWIW.

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Hi Eleanor!

Hi Willa! Good to see you. :)

 

I usually just lurk here but I wanted to jump in for a minute. It seems to me that from what I have read of papal encyclicals on education, the goals and challenges of Catholic education are:

 

--Preparing a child to know, love and serve Our Lord Jesus Christ.

--Using methods in line with true principles of human nature.

--The parents have the right and responsibility to choose the child's education, in accordance with a properly formed understanding of what the Church wants.

 

I think most Catholics are reticent to go beyond that because it would be beyond their proper boundaries.

 

Sure, we can help each other out and guide each other. But we can't make rules that the Church didn't make.

I agree that the goals are broad, and that there's room for a diversity of educational methods. When I talked about leadership, I wasn't thinking about making rules. I'm not sure how it came across that way. :confused: It was more about how we can help each other out in dealing with the challenges and questions that many of us share.

 

For instance, we could organize discussion groups -- whether online or locally -- to talk in depth about different methods and philosophies, and to explore what the Church and educators have said over the years. There are a few groups like this, but they tend to be members-only e-mail lists that focus on a particular approach such as classical, Charlotte Mason, Montessori, or unschooling. As a result, there's a lot of richness of thought and experience that doesn't get shared in a wider public context. (Your blog is a welcome exception to this trend. :))

 

[A little anecdote: On YouTube recently, I came across an EWTN program that was supposedly about Fr. Thomas Edward Shields. I was happy to see this, as I've been wanting to learn more about him. He was the leading Catholic educational theorist of the early 20th century, and his ideas had a major influence in parochial schools and in the field of special education. He was considered a "progressive," but disagreed with Dewey in many areas. From what I can tell, Fr. Shields actually had quite a bit in common with unschoolers. There are heaps of his writings available free online, but I haven't been able to get the big picture of his philosophy and methods. So I was looking forward to watching the show.

 

Well, it turned out to be a typo. It was actually an interview with Br. Edward Shields, a school principal from the Brooklyn diocese. He seemed like a nice man, but I couldn't help feeling a bit let down. :D ]

 

To give another example of an area that could use leadership and clear thinking, it's evident to me that we're up to our eyebrows in educational resources. Just among the free online materials that are specifically Catholic, there are books about the history and philosophy of education, papal encyclicals, vintage textbooks, Latin lessons, clip art, craft and activity suggestions, book lists, entire scopes and sequences.... it's pretty overwhelming. So I'd love to see some cooperative efforts to pull these resources together and organize them in ways that make them more accessible and "open and go" for busy homeschooling parents. As it is, they're mostly hidden away in a hundred different blogs, e-groups, and web sites.

 

I've tried to start some projects along both of the above lines myself, but every time I'm getting geared up to begin, a pregnancy or new baby comes along. Maybe I should accept that my role at this time is simply to teach my own children, and wait until I've joined the ranks of "mothers of graduates" to try to help out at a community level. But I would really like to do something about it now. Preferably without annoying or offending anyone in the process (probably futile, LOL). :)

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Love your ideas, Eleanor!

 

I just discovered Fr. Shields this summer while rereading Poetic Knowledge. http://quotidianmoments.blogspot.com/2011/05/dullard-who-grew-up-to-be-educational.html. Sounds like you already know but several of his books are free on Google if you don't mind computerized reading.

 

I was thinking of "leader" as someone who (1) leads or commands a group (2) is followed by others. I can see why you'd question the word "rules" in relation to "leadership" but my train of thought was that since a leader commands or directs, there could be no true leader except Christ and the Church in regard to education. Leaders rule, yet parents are in the educational sense the leaders/rulers in their homes, under trust of course.

 

Your vision for guidance and support really rings with me though, and that would be something different than leadership the way I was thinking. It would respect the concept of subsidiarity :001_smile:

 

WRT Catholic unschooling, I do think philosophical essays like the one Tony Andres wrote attempt to sketch some parameters that would hold true across the board even if the educational applications differ.

Edited by Willa
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I think some of what you notice about Catholic hsers' hesitance to do more than encourage each other is because we want to empower the newer homeschoolers to make decisions using their own lights.

 

:iagree: This should be painted on a banner somewhere (or quilted :tongue_smilie:). And I think this applies to all homeschoolers.

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I was thinking of "leader" as someone who (1) leads or commands a group (2) is followed by others.

I think this is compatible with subsidiarity, though. A group can be of any size, depending on needs and interest, and people can join it voluntarily. But it's pretty hard to have any effective group effort -- be it a web site, local HS group, or whatever -- without some people who are willing to take on a leadership role.

 

I know people like Suzie Andres and Elizabeth Foss probably never intended to be leaders, but they've ended up being seen that way by default. Even you are the leader of an e-group, and Faith has been involved in setting up a local co-op. So it's happening, whether people want it to or not. ;)

 

Some differences from the current situation could be:

 

1) more projects that are aimed at Catholic homeschoolers in general -- not so much "hiving off" into small groups based on allegiance to some philosophy or other (no offense to the Hive!).

 

2) more ongoing active participation from fathers, as well as college educators, school teachers, clergy, and anyone else who might have something to contribute

 

3) more shared efforts to find ways to use technology to help with lesson planning (I see you've been using K12 for some subjects, so you know whereof I speak :))

 

And now, back to the daily flotsam and jetsam...

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