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Is all dual enrollment considered equal?

 

Obviously community college courses vary tremendously depending on where they're taken, who's teaching, texts used, requirement, etc.. But would prospective colleges consider dual enrollment courses taken at a community college different from dual enrollment done at a junior college (or is that considered on the same level?) or a state university?

 

Any btdt? Any thoughts?

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In Texas there is a signed agreement between some community colleges and the STATE universities.

 

Austin Community College classes count the same as any state university and will fully transfer (university has option of counting credits towards GPA or not--but credit DOES go towards degree program). This goes for courses with the SAME label (for example English 1301 or History 2301).

 

Also some stated will allow students with X many dual enrollment hours to enter as FIRST TIME FRESHMAN-- for scholarship reasons. After they complete their first semester the dual credits show up.

 

My dd will be a Sophomore next semester-- she entered Texas A&M (Corpus) with 27 dual enrollment credits.

This is one area you need to check with prospective colleges/universities... there are some private universities that will not accept (transfer) dual enrollment credits-- and a few that do....

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Thanks Jann. I understand that each would have different "rules" about giving credit, placing out, etc., but I guess I'm asking is if you know if they would look at dual enrollment done at a state university more favorably than dual enrollment done at a community college. Admittedly I find it a bit frustrating that community college dual enrollment courses seem to be looked on less favorably than AP classes. IMO, the high school students doing AP are working on that the entire year, while the same course taken at a cc is done in one semester. So IMO if the student is learning the same material in half the time, it shouldn't count for less. I know that the difference is that the cc class has no standardized test at the end to verify content covered and mastery of that material.

 

It's so hard to just look at individual colleges and their specific handling of dual enrollment since at this point dd has no idea which colleges she's interested in attending.

 

Is a junior college essentially just a community college? Or is it considered more favorably for dual enrollment classes?

 

 

:bigear:

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Is a junior college essentially just a community college? Or is it considered more favorably for dual enrollment classes?

:bigear:

 

Here in FL, what used to be Jr. colleges are now cc. We also have the matriculation agreement w/in all the state schools--cc classes are equal to state U classes.

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I agree that Jr college are now Community Colleges.

 

I suspect that the majority of state schools (same state as the cc) would consider the courses equal. Private colleges may not. Many of the upper level private colleges do not always offer credit to dual enrollment classes period no matter where they come from. Others say they need to consider each one on a case by case basis. I suspect these would give more weight to a 4 year school. Some give elective credit, but not specific credit. And yes, most are better with AP credit.

 

Mid to lower level colleges tend to work more like state schools and accept the credits, but probably not always. It's rare that one can say always when it comes to colleges.

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I would be very surprised if it did NOT make a difference.

I have students every semester who transfer from community college to our 4 year university - they tell me that the classes they took there do not in any way compare to the level of classes they have to take at our school and that they deal with big drops in GPA.

It would be strange if the admissions people were not aware of this fact.

 

I can also see why AP would be considered superior, because the test is standardized and passing it guarantees a certain level of knowledge. A CC class has no standardized content. (Now, passing the AP exam does not really mean mastery of level equivalent to an actual university course, but that is another issue)

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In Texas there is a signed agreement between some community colleges and the STATE universities.

 

Austin Community College classes count the same as any state university and will fully transfer (university has option of counting credits towards GPA or not--but credit DOES go towards degree program). This goes for courses with the SAME label (for example English 1301 or History 2301).

 

 

It depends on the classes and the major, even in Texas. My daughter graduated with 42 dual-credit hours, but only 12 transferred to UT. The reason is that most of her credits were in her major and she needs to have most, if not all, credits toward her major (Math) come from UT. Now, I don't know if this is because she is in the Honors college or not. I was under the impression that all dual-credit classes would transfer from cc to state university/college, but they didn't. She was able to use all of the credits as pre-requisites, though, so she is able to take senior-level classes as a freshman without having to test out or, even worse, re-take those classes. The core classes, like History, Comp & Rhetoric, Government, etc., all transferred without any problem.

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I can also see why AP would be considered superior, because the test is standardized and passing it guarantees a certain level of knowledge. A CC class has no standardized content.

 

FWIW, my experience has been the opposite. My dd is in an Honors college at University of Texas and when that question was brought up, the Dean said that they really don't look at AP classes/scores (my kids haven't done those, so I'm not sure what they're called), because all of the students accepted into the Honors program should be well beyond what AP classes teach, at least in their major. They did look carefully at where dual-credit classes are taken, because some cc are okay and some are great.

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FWIW, my experience has been the opposite. My dd is in an Honors college at University of Texas and when that question was brought up, the Dean said that they really don't look at AP classes/scores (my kids haven't done those, so I'm not sure what they're called), because all of the students accepted into the Honors program should be well beyond what AP classes teach, at least in their major. They did look carefully at where dual-credit classes are taken, because some cc are okay and some are great.

 

From what I've experienced (not in Texas), I think this might need to be interpreted differently. Schools we've talked with tell us they like AP because they can quickly look at it. A score of 4 or 5 is just that and can be interpreted quickly because they know what it stands for. Most (even top schools) readily give credit if the course is not in their major and/or if it's not a med school pre-req (if applicable). They don't have to "look deeply" as these scores. Some do not give credit within their major, but it's not different than cc in that aspect.

 

Whereas, for cc courses, they do need to spend time and look carefully at them because there is no standardization. Some schools have opted just to not accept credit from them at all (esp within a major) because there have been far too many under-prepared students from some places. Others will look at them to see if they will fit. With middle son's microbio course, colleges (this year) have told us they will need his cc to send them the syllabus for the course so they can compare it before they will see if they'll offer credit. It IS much more work for them that way. Of course, with microbio there's no AP option, but the same idea applies.

 

Every single college we've visited (except our in state school) has told us they prefer AP to cc. The in-state school told us they'd accept anything.

 

If I had it to do over again with middle son, we'd have done far more classes aligned to take AP tests. Fortunately, he'll do ok as he has a high ACT, but if he'd wanted to continue pursuing Yale I think the lack of more AP would hurt him. I think part of the reason students from my high school rarely make it into top schools even with decent scores is because our school doesn't offer AP. There are those in the guidance department who also feel this way.

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Isn't a private 2-year college still called a junior college?

 

That was my understanding Nan. I know that the public ones have changed their name to community college or just dropped the "Junior" in their name.

 

All very interesting points about AP vs cc classes, but again, I'm trying to get a sense of whether it would matter if a dual enrollment class was taken at a cc vs a state university. Any btdt?

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I'm trying to get a sense of whether it would matter if a dual enrollment class was taken at a cc vs a state university. Any btdt?

 

You need to look at the individual class at the specific institution and compare on a case by case basis.

If you want to use the credit, and if the subject is in any way related to your student's further major, you don't just want to get INTO college, you also want him to have learned what he needs from this course.

 

I currently have two students taking my class who have CC credit for the course and would not be require to take it - but they started the next level class and are completely lost because their CC course did not prepare them adequately. Now they are behind, have paid twice, and won't even earn any credit towards their major by taking my course since they already have it.

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All very interesting points about AP vs cc classes' date=' but again, I'm trying to get a sense of whether it would matter if a dual enrollment class was taken at a cc vs a state university. Any btdt?[/quote']

 

If I had a choice, I'd opt for State U. However, it's still no guarantee the credits will transfer. A student from here took courses at Penn State (hardly a ho-hum school) and a higher ranked school still wouldn't let the courses transfer. I would expect most schools would, but perhaps, not courses in their major.

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I thought you could only take dual enrollment at a CC. Can you take it at a regular 4 year college too?

You can in FL. Even the private, Christian school dd#1 attended allowed some of the local Christian hs students to do DE. I don't know about the $$ aspects though.

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You need to look at the individual class at the specific institution and compare on a case by case basis.

If you want to use the credit, and if the subject is in any way related to your student's further major, you don't just want to get INTO college, you also want him to have learned what he needs from this course.

 

I currently have two students taking my class who have CC credit for the course and would not be require to take it - but they started the next level class and are completely lost because their CC course did not prepare them adequately. Now they are behind, have paid twice, and won't even earn any credit towards their major by taking my course since they already have it.

 

Thank you for sharing that example, as I'm sure you see this often. Have you ever had a student who took the dual enrollment course at a state university instead of a community college? I'm sure it's fewer students, so you may not have come across this.

 

I'm not so much looking at whether she'd be able to skip the course in her 4yr college as wondering how it would be viewed by admissions. If she does a course in her intended major, I would expect that she'll be repeating that course anyway. I'm hoping that she may be able to get credit for courses outside her major, but again, it's mostly from the viewpoint of admissions that I'm considering right now.

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If I had a choice, I'd opt for State U. However, it's still no guarantee the credits will transfer. A student from here took courses at Penn State (hardly a ho-hum school) and a higher ranked school still wouldn't let the courses transfer. I would expect most schools would, but perhaps, not courses in their major.

 

I'm guessing that their reason for not allowing the credit to transfer is a financial one. :glare:

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I'm guessing that their reason for not allowing the credit to transfer is a financial one. :glare:

 

I don't know if it was financial or prestige. Since it was a higher ranked school, they claim they couldn't trust the content. Maybe Penn State's weren't up to snuff with what their classes cover. I honestly don't know. Only the student who had to retake the courses would know and I never heard back on that. I might be able to ask to see if anyone ever heard feedback about it. This wasn't all that long ago (maybe 5 years?).

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I don't know if it was financial or prestige. Since it was a higher ranked school, they claim they couldn't trust the content. Maybe Penn State's weren't up to snuff with what their classes cover. I honestly don't know. Only the student who had to retake the courses would know and I never heard back on that. I might be able to ask to see if anyone ever heard feedback about it. This wasn't all that long ago (maybe 5 years?).

 

Definitely would be interesting to know the outcome - keep us posted! But I can imagine that finances would play into a school's reluctance to give credit for courses previously taken. If a freshman enters with 30 credits, and is given credit for all, that student could possibly graduate a year earlier - assuming all requirements could be met for the major, etc.. That's a substantial loss to the school if you multiply that by the amount of students who do enter with dual enrollment credits.

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Have you ever had a student who took the dual enrollment course at a state university instead of a community college? I'm sure it's fewer students' date=' so you may not have come across this.

[/quote']

 

Yes - we regularly have high schoolers take our courses for dual enrollment. In fact, some of our all-time best students have been 16 year olds (who then volunteered in the tutoring center to tutor the college students). Incidentally, the student about whom one of my fellow professors still talks as his very best ever student was a 16 y/o homeschooled girl.

 

I would not see any student who took it at a 4 year university as a high schooler elsewhere in my class, because that student would have received credit for the course and been allowed to take the next level class.

 

I'm not so much looking at whether she'd be able to skip the course in her 4yr college as wondering how it would be viewed by admissions. If she does a course in her intended major, I would expect that she'll be repeating that course anyway. I'm hoping that she may be able to get credit for courses outside her major, but again, it's mostly from the viewpoint of admissions that I'm considering right now.

I don't know anything about the admissions side of it, sorry.
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Yes - we regularly have high schoolers take our courses for dual enrollment. In fact, some of our all-time best students have been 16 year olds (who then volunteered in the tutoring center to tutor the college students). Incidentally, the student about whom one of my fellow professors still talks as his very best ever student was a 16 y/o homeschooled girl.

 

I would not see any student who took it at a 4 year university as a high schooler elsewhere in my class, because that student would have received credit for the course and been allowed to take the next level class.

 

I don't know anything about the admissions side of it, sorry.

 

Thank you - that's all very encouraging!

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You should probably contact the college your considering because it seems that every state has different criteria and different standardizations...

 

The CC's here have some Guaranteed Transfer courses, meaning that the courses are just as intense as the University's and the credits are guaranteed to transfer over.

 

Is all dual enrollment considered equal?

 

Obviously community college courses vary tremendously depending on where they're taken' date=' who's teaching, texts used, requirement, etc.. But would prospective colleges consider dual enrollment courses taken at a community college different from dual enrollment done at a junior college (or is that considered on the same level?) or a state university?

 

Any btdt? Any thoughts?[/quote']

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I thought you could only take dual enrollment at a CC. Can you take it at a regular 4 year college too?

 

It really depends. Our oldest took his dual enrollment courses in math and science at a university. They only allowed 2 courses (unless they required labs)/semester. He took his humanities courses at the CC. (I won't go on a rant here about the extremely poor quality of all the courses at the 3 different CC in 2 different states that we have used. ;) )

 

In our "new" state, the unis do not regularly allow dual enrollment. They refer you to the CCs. However, we have learned that it is not a "non-negotiable" position. I did speak to an admissions counselor in the spring about our ds after he made a high score on the SAT math 2. He told me to set up a meeting w/him for admission for dual enrollment. We are not going that route this yr b/c he is only 15 and the campus is over 30 mins away and I don't have time to drive him. However, we are planning on his attending there next yr for math and science.

 

So......don't just call if the routine answer is no. Go in and talk to them in person and find out if they will make exceptions.

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