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REAL Science4kids VS REAL Science Odyssey


farming_mum
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I agree. But I'm not understanding the assertions that evolution theory permeates so many elementary science books. I really want to see these books because I haven't found any of them.

 

Whatever a person believes, there is so much science stuff out there where one wouldn't have to touch any of that with a ten foot pole, yet here people are claiming (including you) that it's everywhere in an annoying suffocating way. I'm just.not.seeing it.

:iagree:

 

I've looked and have yet to find one, and not just in American elementary texts.

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The term "secular" assumes evolution--especially in science. Others may disagree but that's my point of view. And let's get this straight, I'm not a Creationist. But that's the whole point of a secular program, right? My Freshman year Biology text had a chapter on evolution---that my teacher skipped just to save himself "the grief" as he called it. lol Now I know what he meant.

 

Usborne books make evolutionary references, DK books make evolutionary references. If a book touches on origins or prehistory even and doesn't explicitly state anything from a creationist or ID point of view---what other view is there? Evolution

 

 

I've never seen a "hypoallergenic" science book. Even rs4k can't claim that. And that's mainly my point---personal philosophies cannot be separated from science. Never has been---even the scientists themselves bring their baggage to their work.

Edited by Walking-Iris
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Usborne books make evolutionary references, DK books make evolutionary references. If a book touches on origins or prehistory even and doesn't explicitly state anything from a creationist or ID point of view---what other view is there? Evolution
True, if you're talking about supplemental and reference materials. There are also a number of picture books and books geared towards elementary aged kids. However, I think there was an assumption made (certainly on my part) that you were talking about texts and curriculum because that's what is being discussed in this thread.
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http://www.pandiapress.com/?page_id=82#level2

 

okay---since it was what the original poster was asking to begin with. A lot of people use this and I don't want to offend anyone---what's right for some is not right for others. And that's completely fine. But the emphasis on evolution is why I (personally) chose not to use this program when I first starting being aware of it.

 

And I guess this brings us right back to the original question of the main differences between these two---topic of this thread.

Edited by Walking-Iris
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http://www.pandiapress.com/?page_id=82#level2

 

okay---since it was what the original poster was asking to begin with. A lot of people use this. And that's completely fine. But the emphasis on evolution is why I (personally) choose not to use this program.

 

And I guess this brings us right back to the original question of the main differences---topic of this thread.

I've used RSO Level 1 materials, and didn't find a single mention of evolution, much less an emphasis. Level 2 is has not yet been released.

 

From their FAQ:

 

 

 

3. Are your courses written from a Christian viewpoint, or are they secular? or, Is evolution or biblical creation discussed in your courses?

 

 

 

Our courses are secular, they are not written from any particular religious point of view. We hope that customers of all faiths will be comfortable using our materials. History Odyssey courses begin at 6000 B.C., therefore evolution is not applicable. A scientist whose only agenda is to teach science writes each R.E.A.L. Science Odyssey book. Therefore, R.E.A.L Science is not from a creationist’s viewpoint.
There will be mention of evolution in level two and three courses (when available) as it pertains to science. There is no mention of evolution in the level one books.

 

I am happy to see that they will at least mention evolution in Levels 2 and 3; IIRC, the last time I looked at their FAQ, it merely stated there was no mention of evolution in the materials (possibly because Level 1 Science was not yet completed and there was some doubt as to whether it would be).

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Apparently from their link there is a unit/chapter--including "evidence for evolution"

 

And that was the original alarm bells in my head.

 

It feels like more of an agenda imo. Phrased in that way.

 

Again let me stress that this is my personal feeling regarding this---I don't want all the RSO users to suddenly jump on me just because I've looked at this--heard about it--and decided not to use it for my own reasons.

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Please give me an example of one where you feel the theory permeates. I'm only asking for one example.

 

I agree. But I'm not understanding the assertions that evolution theory permeates so many elementary science books. I really want to see these books because I haven't found any of them.

 

Whatever a person believes, there is so much science stuff out there where one wouldn't have to touch any of that with a ten foot pole, yet here people are claiming (including you) that it's everywhere in an annoying suffocating way. I'm just.not.seeing it.

 

When I wrote that many secular books for young children assume evolution, I mean just that. I actually have no problem with such books and never said that this approach is annoying or suffocating (I know that second quote was to someone else, but just ftr). I do not subscribe to a young-earth belief.

 

Much of our science reading is from the library, and many life science titles assume evolution, as would be expected. I'm surprised at the question. :confused: We come across statements about origins and ancestry quite often in our reading. I would not expect these books to discuss Creationism or ID.

 

An example? http://www.amazon.com/Evolution-Eyewitness-Books-Linda-Gamlin/dp/0756650283 :tongue_smilie: We use the Kingfisher Science Encyclopedia quite a bit and origins are discussed there.

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What confuses me is: why people worry about finding a text that teaches a subject EXACTLY as they want it to be taught. If I knew as much about science as I would like to, I would teach my children without texts.

 

Instead, we have used REAL Science, RS4K, The 5th Day Series by Apologia and MANY MANY MANY other books from the library, magazine subscriptions and TV shows and real life examples.

 

We talk to our children often about the history of science, the different theories and why we (mom and dad) believe what we believe. We teach them to read and listen critically, to question what they hear and listen with both their hearts and their brains. Paying attention to the choice of words, the intent and understanding not only what is meant to be said but also what is unintentionally stated.

 

My children do not learn science only from us because there are a great many science books out there that intrigue my children and excite their learning. I will not stop using any of these books as a result of not agree with them or the author 100%, I will stop using them when my children stop showing interest in the way the material is presented.

 

No matter what subject I am teaching, what novel we are reading, what movie we are watching there is going to be something that just does not sit right with us. THAT is why we talk and talk and talk with our children. We have discussions and ask leading questions.

 

Please understand also that although RS4K prelevel one may not be enough Chemistry for a years worth of lower elementary, it is likely to have MORE Chemistry than most lower elementary students are likely to ever be exposed to. Yes, use more in one year, if you feel the desire. This is part of the freedom of homeschooling... I love it!

 

Follow your children's love for different elements of science.

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Apparently from their link there is a unit/chapter--including "evidence for evolution"

 

 

 

The evolution chapters are from the Level 2 Biology which is coming soon.

 

I have all three of the level 1 books for RSO and none of them mention evolution specifically. But, especially in earth and space science, there is the assumption that the universe was created billions of years ago, that dinosaurs were millions of years ago, etc. but there's surprising little of that specifically mentioned.

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Apparently from their link there is a unit/chapter--including "evidence for evolution"

 

And that was the original alarm bells in my head.

 

It feels like more of an agenda imo. Phrased in that way.

 

Again let me stress that this is my personal feeling regarding this---I don't want all the RSO users to suddenly jump on me just because I've looked at this--heard about it--and decided not to use it for my own reasons.

 

Well, we know each other. ;) And I have RSO Life and there is NO evolution in it. In fact, that is one of my major disappointments with it. I know you've been looking for a secular science for awhile. I had no idea you wanted to avoid the evolution discussion. There are several for you to choose from, then, because I've owned just about every science curriculum for elementary (other than MPH) and I have never yet come across the evolution discussion except in supplementary books which I looked for in particular. Feel free to look through my RSO Life if you are worried. :)

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Yes I do want to avoid an evolution discussion as much as I want to avoid a crationism discussion. mommymilkies you have shown RSO to me :001_smile: and I've looked at their website. The evolution is in the next level---which (personally) causes me to suspect all of it. But if that's what you want and what others want, then it fits for your family. I couldn't use it.

 

I do want a secular program but not a unit on evolution or an evolutionary agenda. I don't want to use the first level and then have to switch to something else later. The fact that the authors have it in the next---including the "evidence for evolution" makes me personally uneasy with all of it---same as my uneasiness with religious publishers curriculum. I haven't found any secular programs except RSO or Singapore or rs4k---those are the only ones I know. Except supplementary books and websites and unit studies. I don't know about Singapore but I don't want to use it for other reasons (just not really fond of the Singapore materials).

 

And this is why I didn't want to do this because I knew everyone would want to defend it---when it really doesn't matter what people choose or choose not to use. :)

 

A lot of people feel uneasy about rs4k---but having spent the last few days looking through all of their books online, and other websites as well---I feel good about them. The word "design" doesn't bother me a bit. I use a unit study approach anyway and I think they would be good addition to that method.

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