Spelling is a disaster, I don't know what to do.

[Garga]

Please--if you had a child who was doing horribly at spelling, and you found a program that actually WORKED, can you please tell me about it? Don't tell me about it if your child was a naturally good speller. I want to hear about the kids who were doing just awful, but then something happened to change it around.

 

Here's my background:

 

Someone gave me k12's curriculum for spelling. It has a teacher's guide and a student workbook. It teaches spelling phonetically, with a few "words that don't follow the rules" each week, like "could." It lays out the rules for how to spell, then has the list of words. Each day there are activities in the workbook to do. I can't really see how the program could be improved.

 

We did no spelling for 1st and 2nd. Starting in 3rd, we've followed K12 and we're in the 3rd week for 4th grade, and his spelling is still horrible. There has been NO improvement over the past school year.

 

And the problem is English phonics--words simply ARE NOT spelled the way that you say them. You may be able to use phonics to decipher, but enciphering is a whole 'nuther ball game. The spelling rules are NOT true much of the time. They're just not! And there can be multiple combinations that produce the same sound. So, how does a new speller know which combination to use? They don't!! They just have to guess, and there's a good chance they'll be wrong.

 

For some really good examples of what I mean, here is how he spelled these words today (we're been working on them for 3 days so far):

 

reckemends (recommends)

infents (infants)

conekts (connects)

disigry (disagree)

disreespect (disrespect)

disapeer (disappear)

ruoghf (rough)

enoghf (enough)

 

For some of those words, he spelled them Exactly As He Hears Them. And seriously, how would anyone "know" that there are 2 m's in recommend? How is that phonetic? And why couldn't it be ck? Lots of other words use 'ck' for the K sound. And we don't actually say recOmmend: we say recEmmend.

 

Sooooo....what to do? Is there anything in existence to really teach spelling? Or do I just wait until he's been reading long enough for exposure to solve the problem? (He started reading in the middle of 1st--it was a struggle, and he doesn't read the Iliad at age 8, like other homeschool kids. We're still reading Beverly Cleary--and even that is iffy sometimes.

[Hsmomto4]

I'll be honest with you, I have a daughter like that as well. My oldest won the school spelling bee when she was in school, her sister? Oh man! So we fought and fought over spelling for YEARS! It wasn't till last year when I was going over the phonics cards with her younger sisters (who were in K and 1st) that I noticed a funny look on her face. I stopped and asked if she was ok and she says yes, I just didn't know ea had 3 sounds. See I didn't use the same phonics program with her when she was younger and so it was like turning on a light bulb for her. So from that point on I made her sit in on the flash cards when we did them (she was in 5th mind you) and her spelling started to get better and better! She understood things that she just never got before. Even now, I make her review the special sounds cards I have just to keep them fresh in her mind, but in just one year everything changed with her! She reads great now, spells much better and we don't fight about school as much now.

[Haiku]

Starting in 3rd, we've followed K12 and we're in the 3rd week for 4th grade, and his spelling is still horrible.

 

reckemends (recommends)

infents (infants)

conekts (connects)

disigry (disagree)

disreespect (disrespect)

disapeer (disappear)

ruoghf (rough)

enoghf (enough)

 

Um, my dd is 9 and wouldn't be able to spell those words. She's not a great speller, but ... I'm not overly worried about it at this point. Maybe that's not what you want to hear, but I honestly wouldn't be too worried about how your son spelled those words, nor would I label him a horrible speller.

 

Btw, we are using Wheeler's Elementary Speller, free from Google Books, and I see steady improvement in dd's spelling. But we are NOT working on words like recommend and disrespect.

 

Tara

[JudoMom]

My ds10 was a horrid speller. I've seen improvements after using Sequential Spelling. Actually, none of my older 3 boys are great spellers, and I've seen improvements with all their spelling since using SS (we're on lesson 60-something of book 1--we started last year).

[Embassy]

Rod and Staff has worked well for my son. Spelling didn't come easy to him, but reading did.

 

However, there is an informal activity that I used with both of my boys. They were reading well, but had tons of spelling errors. I had them type on the computer with spell check enabled. That alerted them to any errors immediately and they changed it. I think that instant feedback helped them.

[Jana]

I've been in your shoes. I use Spell to Write and Read, but I don't use it as a complete LA program.

 

I like that it requires the student (and teacher) to break words apart, and mark them with coded markings. This requires thinking about how phonics/spelling rules correspond to your actual pronunciation. Sometimes they just don't; the word has to be memorized.

 

There are times (while breaking apart words) we find the SWR's coded markings to be inaccurate, so we decide how we think the word corresponds to the rules and mark the word accordingly.

 

It is through this process (and endless practice) that my son's spelling has improved. He is about a year behind (according to the placement tests in SWR). But I'll take it, because three years ago, he couldn't spell anything (reliably) except VCV words.

[Tam101]

Tricks of the Trade student notebook and You Can Teach Any Child to Spell teacher text. Has helped my son tremendously.

[Mrs Twain]

My son could spell very few words coming out of public school. I started him on Spelling Power and have seen wonderful results. There are two reasons I like the program in which you may be interested:

 

First, the student practices a maximum of five words. The practice method has been devised to help all types of learners--the student speaks the word, writes the word, spells it with eyes closed, traces it very large, writes out a sentence with the spelling word, etc. I haven't seen another program with a practice method that seems as effective to me.

 

Second, the program can be used from 1st through 12th grade. There is a placement test to tell you where to start in the spelling lists. You can go as fast or slowly as you like, adding in extra review if you think it is needed. The levels are A, B, C, etc. so there are no grade levels to get hung up on.

 

Just an idea. I hope you find something that works well for you.

[LizzyBee]

Please--if you had a child who was doing horribly at spelling, and you found a program that actually WORKED, can you please tell me about it? Don't tell me about it if your child was a naturally good speller. I want to hear about the kids who were doing just awful, but then something happened to change it around.

 

Here's my background:

 

Someone gave me k12's curriculum for spelling. It has a teacher's guide and a student workbook. It teaches spelling phonetically, with a few "words that don't follow the rules" each week, like "could." It lays out the rules for how to spell, then has the list of words. Each day there are activities in the workbook to do. I can't really see how the program could be improved.

 

We did no spelling for 1st and 2nd. Starting in 3rd, we've followed K12 and we're in the 3rd week for 4th grade, and his spelling is still horrible. There has been NO improvement over the past school year.

 

And the problem is English phonics--words simply ARE NOT spelled the way that you say them. You may be able to use phonics to decipher, but enciphering is a whole 'nuther ball game. The spelling rules are NOT true much of the time. They're just not! And there can be multiple combinations that produce the same sound. So, how does a new speller know which combination to use? They don't!! They just have to guess, and there's a good chance they'll be wrong.

 

For some really good examples of what I mean, here is how he spelled these words today (we're been working on them for 3 days so far):

 

reckemends (recommends)

infents (infants)

conekts (connects)

disigry (disagree)

disreespect (disrespect)

disapeer (disappear)

ruoghf (rough)

enoghf (enough)

 

For some of those words, he spelled them Exactly As He Hears Them. And seriously, how would anyone "know" that there are 2 m's in recommend? How is that phonetic? And why couldn't it be ck? Lots of other words use 'ck' for the K sound. And we don't actually say recOmmend: we say recEmmend.

 

Sooooo....what to do? Is there anything in existence to really teach spelling? Or do I just wait until he's been reading long enough for exposure to solve the problem? (He started reading in the middle of 1st--it was a struggle, and he doesn't read the Iliad at age 8, like other homeschool kids. We're still reading Beverly Cleary--and even that is iffy sometimes.

 

My 10 yo is dyslexic and we use Barton Reading and Spelling. English is much more structured than most people think it is, if you know the rules (more rules than are typically taught) and some basic history of the language.

 

In the examples above, some of the applicable rules are:

 

Recommends: /k/ is usually spelled with a c unless there is a reason not to use c. C = /s/ before the watch out vowels, e, i, and y. Since the /k/ in recommends comes before o, there's no reason not to spell it with a c. The m is doubled because the /m/ sound is part of the last syllable; this leaves the 2nd syllable open, so the o would be pronounced with its long sound; therefore, we add an m to the 2nd syllable to close the syllable and make the o say its short sound.

 

Infants: O and A change to the schwa sound in an unaccented syllable. (Any vowel can change to the schwa sound if it is followed by an l.) To find the spelling of the schwa, you can use an electronic speller and type a question mark in the schwa space. Eventually, most kids will memorize the spelling of the schwa in common words, but the electronic dictionary is a good tool to use in the meantime.

 

Connects: Same rules as above for recommends. Words spelled with ct come from Latin.

 

Disagree: Schwa sound again in the 2nd syllable, because an open a that is not accented changes to schwa. Y is the most common spelling of e on the end of a multisyllable word, but sometimes it is spelled ee. When not sure, look it up.

 

Disrespect: Re is an open syllable, so the e makes its long sound. Therefore, it doesn't need to be doubled to make it long.

 

Disappear: I think ee vs. ea is something that the student should look up if unsure which to use. If there's a rule that applies there, I haven't learned it yet.

 

Rough and enough: These words come from Old English and the spelling doesn't match pronunciation because the pronunciation has changed throughout history. My suggestion is to memorize the spelling of all the words that use ough pronounced /u//f/ at the same time. Make flashcards and review as often as necessary.

Edited September 3, 2011 by LizzyBee

[LizzyBee]

Um, my dd is 9 and wouldn't be able to spell those words. She's not a great speller, but ... I'm not overly worried about it at this point. Maybe that's not what you want to hear, but I honestly wouldn't be too worried about how your son spelled those words, nor would I label him a horrible speller.

 

Btw, we are using Wheeler's Elementary Speller, free from Google Books, and I see steady improvement in dd's spelling. But we are NOT working on words like recommend and disrespect.

 

Tara

 

I agree that those are advanced words for early 4th grade. Public schools teach lots of 4 syllable words by 3rd grade, but they are also using memorization instead of rules and logic. By learning the rules, kids can apply them to words they've not heard or seen before.

[Ellie]

Spalding.

 

And actually, yes, most English words do follow spelling rules (which are not the same as phonics rules, BTW). That there is more than one way to spell the same sound does not mean that words which use the different sounds aren't following the rules, IYSWIM. :-)

[boscopup]

And the problem is English phonics--words simply ARE NOT spelled the way that you say them.

Some of the mistakes made would be fixed by learning about syllabication rules and some basic spelling rules (which sometimes aren't taught in traditional spelling programs).

 

And there can be multiple combinations that produce the same sound. So, how does a new speller know which combination to use? They don't!! They just have to guess, and there's a good chance they'll be wrong.

That's why you need to do something to teach spelling. There are a number of ways to teach it. Studied dictation is a really good method, though I would still add some phonograms, spelling rules, and syllabication rules to help narrow down the spelling. A child can't magically figure out how to spell a new word they've never seen before. They need to be taught the spelling. But they can remember the spelling if they have some spelling strategies in their toolbox.

 

 

ruoghf (rough)

enoghf (enough)

These two show me a lack of understanding of the basic phonograms. "uo" is not a phonogram. You'd only see those together if there was a 'q' before the 'u'. And if he knew that "ough" is a phonogram that says /uf/, he'd know there is no need for the 'f' on the end.

 

And we don't actually say recOmmend: we say recEmmend.

When teaching the words, you might try teaching him to pronounce for spelling to remember some of these words. The O in that word schwas (I tend to say it with an /uh/ sound). As a child, I remember thinking to spell with the O.

 

Sooooo....what to do? Is there anything in existence to really teach spelling? Or do I just wait until he's been reading long enough for exposure to solve the problem?

I would use a phonics-based spelling program and stick with it for a while to give it a chance. Some good ones would be All About Spelling, Writing Road to Reading (might be a good read for you even if you don't use it), Spell to Write and Read, Apples & Pears, Rod & Staff Spelling... Also do lots of dictation with the spelling words if the program you use doesn't include dictation.

 

Seriously, learning the syllable types helped my son immensely. Will he still spell new words wrong? Of course! I think most kids probably do not learn to spell properly by osmosis. Some do, but many don't.

[RootAnn]

Please--if you had a child who was doing horribly at spelling, and you found a program that actually WORKED, can you please tell me about it?

 

And the problem is English phonics--words simply ARE NOT spelled the way that you say them. You may be able to use phonics to decipher, but enciphering is a whole 'nuther ball game. The spelling rules are NOT true much of the time. They're just not! And there can be multiple combinations that produce the same sound. So, how does a new speller know which combination to use? They don't!! They just have to guess, and there's a good chance they'll be wrong.

 

 

My kids take after me: they are not good spellers. The oldest was awful and still isn't great - but she's roughly at grade level (based on SWR's tests). The second oldest spells everything phonetically and lags just under grade level on her diagnostic spelling tests. They have learned a LOT using Spell to Write and Read (SWR).

 

SWR (and Spaulding and Phonics Road and All About Spelling) teach the basic 70(ish) sounds you need to spell and read American English words (even if they came from Italian, French, Latin, German, etc. roots). It also teaches many spelling rules that really do work most of the time. It does NOT teach rules you may have learned like, "when two vowels go walking, the first one does the talking."

 

It does teach:

 

- When a one-syllable word ends with one vowel and one consonant, double the last consonant before adding a vowel suffix.

- X is never directly before S.

- CK is used only after a single vowel which says its short sound.

- Z, never S, spells /z/ at the beginning of a base word.

- ALL and FULL are written with one L when added to another syllable (almost, fulfill). All right is two words just like all wrong.

 

It teaches that sometimes we have to THINK (exaggerating a pronounciation, for example - /col/ /or/ instead of /col/ /er/) to SPELL. It also teaches phonograms like ough (which can say up to six different sounds!), gn (which you can use both at the beginning and end of base word), kn (which you can only use at the beginning of a base word), and Latin spellings of the /sh/ sound like ti and ci (think "tion" and "cion") that help with spelling.

 

Some of the mistakes made would be fixed by learning about syllabication rules and some basic spelling rules (which sometimes aren't taught in traditional spelling programs).

 

 

SWR doesn't teach the syllabication rules and those really do help with some of the spelling stuff. I'd recommend you start by reading Spaulding's The Writing Road to Reading (some libraries have it).

 

I don't have a magic bullet (curriculum) for you. Spaulding-like (sorry Ellie!) spelling programs really help improve the spelling of most kids. Some kids will never be awesome spellers. I will never spell as well as my older sister, who is a natural speller. However, I spell BETTER than I ever did in school.

 

On a side note, this is one of those cases where I think of Liping Ma's Knowing and Teaching Elementary Math book. She shows that the teacher's level of knowledge really makes a difference in how well the students do and how well the teacher's teach. Teaching spelling to non-natural spellers is one of those areas where knowing phonics and some good solid spelling rules is a huge asset (and possibly well nigh should be a requirement) for the teacher.

[She Reads a Lot]

I haven't been using it long, but so far we like All About Spelling. We got bogged down in learning all of the phonograms back in the spring. Then I found out the child doesn't need to know *all* of them before you move on to the lessons. So this fall, we are doing much better with AAS.

 

It has magnetic letter tiles that the kids maniuplate, so if you think your child would do well with this, AAS could be a good fit (it's more exciting than a workbook for my busy 7 yo).

 

AAS has very little writing (which is great for us) but a lot of learning of the concepts/rules behind spelling. With your child being older, you could breeze through level I and maybe even several levels before you hit a point that's challenging. But they say to start at level I so the kids really learn the basic sounds, etc.

 

Best of luck!

christina

[Heather in VA]

I would recommend All About Spelling for you. I would also encourage you to help him focus on the sounds in a word (AAS does this very well). From the way he spells the words, it seems he probably doesn't know he sounds very well or isn't pronouncing the words correctly. AAS will help with that. (it is a similar philosophy to Spaulding or Spell to Write and Read so those are all good options - I just thing AAS is the most step-by-step and easiest to use.

 

Heather

[ChrissySC]

Megawords worked to get us over the hump, and we went with R&S Spelling by Sound and Structure. Making spelling something that is done vocally has been the biggest take-away from Megawords. :)

[MerryAtHope]

I have a son who in 4th grade was so confused that he went from correctly spelling "ask" to spelling it "aic" because he thought the C could stand for BOTH the /s/ and the /k/ sound, and because sometimes words just throw in extra vowels for no apparent reason. He also routinely switched letters (spelled "from" "f-o-r-m").

 

The program that helped us was All About Spelling. I wrote more about our experiences on my blog here. It only includes the dependable rules that work almost all the time (usually about 97% of the time). You are correct that sometimes there aren't rules--good spellers have to rely on a variety of strategies, including phonetic, rules, visual strategies, and morphemes. Here's an article describing the strategies.

 

Hang in there! I hope you find what will help your son. Merry

[In2why]

We love All about Spelling. He isn't advanced in spelling or reading, and we brought him home in the middle of first grade when it was obvious that he faced a school career of reading remediation and special classes. Now he is on level 3 and the difference is that he understands and remembers the spelling rules, vowel teams, syllable divisions, and dipthongs. He still isn't advanced, but he is on level and what he learns, he retains. Another important sign for me is that his work with AAS carries over in his writing for other subjects.

[SorrelZG]

Spalding.

 

And actually, yes, most English words do follow spelling rules (which are not the same as phonics rules, BTW). That there is more than one way to spell the same sound does not mean that words which use the different sounds aren't following the rules, IYSWIM. :-)

 

I can't speak for DS yet but I can speak for myself. I thought I was a great speller until I lost my spell checker. Terribly humbling revelation - I'm atrocious. However, I've been studying WRTR (Spalding handbook) and it's making a marked difference - and I wasn't even doing it for me! :lol:

[lewelma]

SWR (spelling to write and read). This is more intensive than AAS but much less teacher friendly. My ds was a terrible (and I mean terrible) speller. He had learned to read at 5, but had a speech impediment causing him to pronounce words incorrectly. Because he read so much, he mapped the sounds to the wrong letters in his mind! yikes! So when he started to write, even phonetically, it made no sense. After trying every program under the sun from age 7 to 9, we switched to SWR. SWR brought him up to grade level and even a bit ahead in 2 years. This I consider a miracle.

 

Ruth

Edited September 3, 2011 by lewelma

[kalanamak]

And we don't actually say recOmmend: we say recEmmend.

 

 

Two thoughts, although I wasn't in your shoes. Perhaps I wasn't because we started with SWR. I love the cards, so does kiddo. He loves the challenge, the finger hints, etc.

 

Second thought, have you thought about working on pronunciation? Instead of saying the second syllable of recommend with a long E, try something a little closer to the o in ox. Man do I hear syllables now that we've done SWR. HTH

 

P.s. we are still reading Beverly Cleary.

[KathyBC]

We saw improvement after using Megawords.

[SorrelZG]

Second thought, have you thought about working on pronunciation? Instead of saying the second syllable of recommend with a long E, try something a little closer to the o in ox. Man do I hear syllables now that we've done SWR. HTH

 

 

I was thinking this too. WRTR has me enunciating a lot more clearly (webster's speller helps too) which eliminates quite a few o the problems I was having.

[Paisley Hedgehog]

nm

[Hedgehogs4]

Please--if you had a child who was doing horribly at spelling, and you found a program that actually WORKED, can you please tell me about it? Don't tell me about it if your child was a naturally good speller. I want to hear about the kids who were doing just awful, but then something happened to change it around.

 

Here's my background:

 

Someone gave me k12's curriculum for spelling. It has a teacher's guide and a student workbook. It teaches spelling phonetically, with a few "words that don't follow the rules" each week, like "could." It lays out the rules for how to spell, then has the list of words. Each day there are activities in the workbook to do. I can't really see how the program could be improved.

 

We did no spelling for 1st and 2nd. Starting in 3rd, we've followed K12 and we're in the 3rd week for 4th grade, and his spelling is still horrible. There has been NO improvement over the past school year.

 

And the problem is English phonics--words simply ARE NOT spelled the way that you say them. You may be able to use phonics to decipher, but enciphering is a whole 'nuther ball game. The spelling rules are NOT true much of the time. They're just not! And there can be multiple combinations that produce the same sound. So, how does a new speller know which combination to use? They don't!! They just have to guess, and there's a good chance they'll be wrong.

 

For some really good examples of what I mean, here is how he spelled these words today (we're been working on them for 3 days so far):

 

reckemends (recommends)

infents (infants)

conekts (connects)

disigry (disagree)

disreespect (disrespect)

disapeer (disappear)

ruoghf (rough)

enoghf (enough)

 

For some of those words, he spelled them Exactly As He Hears Them. And seriously, how would anyone "know" that there are 2 m's in recommend? How is that phonetic? And why couldn't it be ck? Lots of other words use 'ck' for the K sound. And we don't actually say recOmmend: we say recEmmend.

 

Sooooo....what to do? Is there anything in existence to really teach spelling? Or do I just wait until he's been reading long enough for exposure to solve the problem? (He started reading in the middle of 1st--it was a struggle, and he doesn't read the Iliad at age 8, like other homeschool kids. We're still reading Beverly Cleary--and even that is iffy sometimes.

 

My ds 10 has had spelling struggles just as you describe. He spelled things the way he heard them and while he could memorize words for a test, they never were applied in actual writing. Spelling rules went in one eyeball and out the other (as long as we were using a workbook type thing).

 

I bought AAS and we blew through levels one and two (we are on three now) and almost overnight his spelling improved. For him, it just made sense, and having me there to work thorough words with him combined with the process of hearing, manipulating the tiles and writing seemed to make it stick. I wouldn't call him a great speller yet, but I think by the time we are done he will be absolutely fine. He loves AAS and has a whole different level of confidence when he writes.

[Hedgehogs4]

That looks like dyslexic spelling to me. Have you had him screened? Does he have any other symptoms of a learning disability?

 

Warning Signs of Dyslexia

 

It looks just like my son's spelling...who is not dyslexic, so don't freak out just yet.

[Garga]

Thank you, everyone! I have to run out the door, but later I'm going to really read these replies longer, and then research the programs you guys reckemended (hee hee).

 

And I never really understood that there are "spelling" rules different from "phonetic" rules. Teaching my kids to read and spell is the hardest part of HSing for me. Everything else is a cinch, and I feel that I'm doing a very, very poor job with teaching spelling. (My youngest is naturally picking up reading easier than my oldest, so that's a big relief.) I love the suggestion for ME to learn more about spelling before I teach.

 

I love this board so much. I just don't know what I'd do without all the wisdom of people who've gone before me. Thank you again!

[susankenny]

It looks just like my son's spelling...who is not dyslexic, so don't freak out just yet.

 

I agree. BTDT.

 

OP, what has helped my daughter the most is dictation. We use Spelling Plus and the accompanying Dictation Resource Book. The dictation book is my favorite aspect of it, as it reviews previous words from past lessons, and therefore, the review is consistent and constant.

 

We also do review spelling rules of course, but dictation daily has been what has helped her the most.

 

:grouphug:

 

Susan

[julikins]

You've received some great responses here, so I just want to reiterate what other people have mentioned but I'll share our experience.

 

I thought I was a failure as a homeschool teacher because my daughter in 3rd grade couldn't write ANYTHING without mispelling it. At the beginning of 3rd grade I dictated a 4 sentence paragraph for her to write. There were about 5 words in each sentence and none were more than the normal CVC and VCE words. She only got 1 word right in the whole thing, the word "I". I was devastated! She was just starting, in 3rd grade, to enjoy reading. We had to struggle to get her to read up to that point.

 

When I did this little test, and saw how bad it really was, a friend recommended the Writing Road to Reading. I read it and went through the Phonogram cards daily with my daughter, then did the notebook pages recommended in there, where you write the rule and a list of examples under it. Then I heard about All About Spelling on this board. I had been overwhelmed with trying to implement WRTR on my own, without direction, and then heard that AAS is based on that method (the Spalding Method) and gave it a try. It helped a lot to read the WRTR book and understand the research and method behind it. But it helps so much to have a program that takes you step by step through the process.

 

At the end of the year, I asked her to write that same paragraph. (We had done the cards and lists, then completed level 1 of AAS and about halfway through AAS2). She didn't miss any words! I was so excited. So I'm sold on AAS and seeing progress in my daughter. She's so much happier with herself and isn't afraid to write things down anymore. Doesn't love it, but it doesn't bring her to tears anymore.

 

HTH. Hang in there, it requires work and perseverance but both you and your child can do it!

Edited September 3, 2011 by julikins
editing my sentence structure

[Mom0012]

When my son was quite young, he could read very well, but was unable to spell "rat". I used SWR with him for 2 years and that helped him quite a bit. When I couldn't take another minute of SWR (it was taking us almost 40 minutes a day in 1st grade) I moved onto SRA's Spelling Mastery, which takes a morphographic approach. This is what we've stuck with and he's doing the final level this year. It hasn't been a magic bullet, but the lessons are much more streamlined than SWR and the focus on the morphographs makes it easier for him to put multisyllable words together.

 

SRA's program is expensive if you buy it directly from them, but I have bought all my levels on e-bay. Apples and Pears is another program that takes a morphographic approach and is more reasonably priced. I have never used it, but I have looked at the samples and it reminds me of SRA's program quite a bit.

 

Once we are done with the final level of Spelling Mastery, I am planning on having my son memorize all the morphographs so he can continue to use them to put words together. I also intend to have him keep a log of problem words and may have him quickly go through Susan B. Anthony's Spelling Plus to make sure he's got all the most regularly used words down.

 

The only other program that has ever called to me is Megawords but I know there is a lot of emphasis on syllabication and the spelling rules and I don't think that will help him. He does not apply spelling rules even though he knows them. SRA's program focuses on learning and applying a few basic, heavily used rules rather than the long list SWR focuses on.

 

Lisa

[LanaTron]

My older two dc had a terrible time with spelling. They were terrible spellers, and the spelling programs we tried ususally made one or both of them cry, with no improvement in their spelling. Starting when they were in K and 1st, we tried:

 

Spelling Workout

Spelling Power

Sequential Spelling

 

I gave up and let it rest. I had them doing lots of copywork, not to improve their spelling, but for writing purposes (ds had an issue with writing hurting his hand). And, BTW, that was the only writing they were doing. Lo and behold, their spelling improved! They began to be able to spell one-syllable words. They eventually stopped spelling "they" with "thay." :D

 

When they were in about 5th and 6th grades, I found and tried Megawords. It was great for us. There were no tears, because there was no "pretesting" of the words. It was largely independent, which totally suits dd. I had them work through the Megawords series, through the end of 8th grade. Neither of them finished the series, but their spelling is decent enough now, in the 9th and 10th grades.

 

Also, I willl say that some of the improvement in spelling was probably just due to their brains maturing. That is especially true for my dd, who also had a hard time with math facts and Latin. :tongue_smilie:

[Dana]

I used Spelling Workout with my son in 1st and 2nd grade. It did nothing for him - just busywork.

 

He hadn't learned phonics because he was a self-taught reader. When he'd read aloud he'd sometimes make ridiculous guesses at words - mainly names.

 

I read a lot on the boards here and made the switch to All About Spelling. It was a bit frustrating since I'd just bought our 3rd grade materials & had bought the next level of SWO. It was tough to not complete book 2 and not to use book 3 (I bought it!! I must use it!!).

 

AAS has been a much better fit & it has helped a ton with phonics as well.

 

I've also got a reference book, The ABC's and All Their Tricks that talks about how many words are spelled in a certain way. It's nice to have but I've been most impressed with AAS.

[Cosmos]

For some of those words, he spelled them Exactly As He Hears Them. And seriously, how would anyone "know" that there are 2 m's in recommend? How is that phonetic? And why couldn't it be ck? Lots of other words use 'ck' for the K sound. And we don't actually say recOmmend: we say recEmmend.

 

I think he's spelling very well. He's spelling phonetically, which is a great start. And he clearly has a visual memory of some of those odd ones like "rough" that he's trying to reproduce.

 

He could use some help in learning spelling rules, I think. For example, we don't usually use "ck" in the middle of a word, so that would help him out in recommend. Also, that's a word that you can break down. It comes from the base word "commend" and the prefix "re". Now over time, like many words in English, we have changed the pronunciation so that we don't say it like re-commend, but it will really help if you know where the word came from. All About Spelling uses a strategy called "pronounce for spelling", and recommend is definitely a good word for that strategy.

 

Finally, why are there two m's in recommend? Well, when you know it comes from commend, it becomes very clear. In order to make the first syllable (COM) have a short vowel sound, it wants an extra syllable at the end. This is a very common pattern in English. If there were only one consonant in the middle, it would have a long vowel sound. Try writing it out -- COMEND -- and you'll see that you want to pronounce it with a long O. That's because your reading eyes instinctively know these English spelling rules. Once you articulate these rules through a spelling program, it makes spelling the words a piece of cake.

 

So, to sum up, I think your ds is doing great and is ready for a rule-based spelling program. He'll probably make tremendous progress, since he's so good at the phonetics already. We use All About Spelling and have found it wonderful.

[Ellie]

I can't speak for DS yet but I can speak for myself. I thought I was a great speller until I lost my spell checker. Terribly humbling revelation - I'm atrocious. However, I've been studying WRTR (Spalding handbook) and it's making a marked difference - and I wasn't even doing it for me! :lol:

Spalding has that effect on people. :D

[GingerPoppy]

I think he's spelling very well. He's spelling phonetically, which is a great start. And he clearly has a visual memory of some of those odd ones like "rough" that he's trying to reproduce.

 

He could use some help in learning spelling rules, I think. For example, we don't usually use "ck" in the middle of a word, so that would help him out in recommend. Also, that's a word that you can break down. It comes from the base word "commend" and the prefix "re". Now over time, like many words in English, we have changed the pronunciation so that we don't say it like re-commend, but it will really help if you know where the word came from. All About Spelling uses a strategy called "pronounce for spelling", and recommend is definitely a good word for that strategy.

 

Finally, why are there two m's in recommend? Well, when you know it comes from commend, it becomes very clear. In order to make the first syllable (COM) have a short vowel sound, it wants an extra syllable at the end. This is a very common pattern in English. If there were only one consonant in the middle, it would have a long vowel sound. Try writing it out -- COMEND -- and you'll see that you want to pronounce it with a long O. That's because your reading eyes instinctively know these English spelling rules. Once you articulate these rules through a spelling program, it makes spelling the words a piece of cake.

 

So, to sum up, I think your ds is doing great and is ready for a rule-based spelling program. He'll probably make tremendous progress, since he's so good at the phonetics already. We use All About Spelling and have found it wonderful.

:iagree:wholeheartedly.

 

He's doing well enough for his level. Those are not easy words, but you can see that he not only gets all the correct sounds in the correct order (which is great--and I would say a sign that dyslexia is not an issue), he also has some visual memory going on (as evidenced in "rough" and "enough").

 

I liked Reading Reflex (minus the stories) for both reading and spelling purposes. He would learn things like the 'ough' STANDS for the /f/ sound, so you don't need both.

 

Also, I find vocabulary work to be tremendously helpful for spelling. I always encourage my kids (students) to listen first for root word. For example, in "disagree", if they hear the word was made from the word "agree" with a prefix put in front, they are more likely to spell it properly, rather than only listening for the sounds.

 

I'd let him learn how to spell slightly easier words first (like root words on their own) before expecting him to do the list in the original post.

[jedbel]

We switched to All About Spelling about a year ago and I am seeing great results, especially from my oldest who is not a natural speller.

[chepyl]

Second thought, have you thought about working on pronunciation? Instead of saying the second syllable of recommend with a long E, try something a little closer to the o in ox. Man do I hear syllables now that we've done SWR. HTH

 

P.s. we are still reading Beverly Cleary.

 

:iagree:

I was a horrible seller in school, I am still not great. I minored in theatre and earned a master's in theatre. I spent many a class working on Standard American dialect. Riding myself of my Oklahoma Yuck dialect helped my spelling tremendously!! I makes sure to clearly pronounce, with correct vowel sounds, all words I ask him to spell.

 

I agree. BTDT.

 

OP, what has helped my daughter the most is dictation. We use Spelling Plus and the accompanying Dictation Resource Book. The dictation book is my favorite aspect of it, as it reviews previous words from past lessons, and therefore, the review is consistent and constant.

 

We also do review spelling rules of course, but dictation daily has been what has helped her the most.

 

 

We use this as well. My son is a natural seller, but I am not. We are on lesson/list 8 and I have already learned rules I never knew!! I am sure my spelling will improve as we continue ;)

 

I also have TWRTR and phonics/spelling cards I picked up.

[mom2agang]

I vote for Phonetic Zoo. It teaches rules and spelling. It is also geared for older children. I Love it! Phonetic Zoo improved my sons spelling a lot. I can't tell you enough how much I love the program.

[Medieval Mom]

A nifty guide for YOU to read about spelling rules is ABC's And All Their Tricks. (It also comes in hardcover.)

 

If you decide to give Rod and Staff Spelling a try, I highly recommend the Teacher's Manual, too. It has daily activities to teach the hows and whys of spelling that are NOT a part of the student workbooks, as well as dictation sentences, drill ideas, etc. It recommends "drill" every day, but lists MANY, MANY different ways to do that drill. (In other words, don't be tempted to skip the TM. There's more to it than that.)

[mama25angels]

:seeya: just posting a "hi" to Medieval Mom, glad to see you back.

[FO4UR]

I hesitate to post...b/c we haven't gone from horrid speller to great speller. We have gone from HATING spelling to tolerating it, and applying it in other writing.

 

I started with SWR, studied WRTR, did several months of Recipe for Reading (which actually got us over a huge hurdle...I really like RfR;)), and settled in with Apples & Pears Spelling.

 

My search was actually for increasing *reading* and not spelling...but after going through about 1/2 of Apples & Pears Book A with ds8, I decided to use it with dd6 (who is an avid reader, just needs spelling). A&P teaches spelling through morphemes by imprinting them in the child's visual memory. It is copywork and dictation, essentially...with some visual and auditory perception exercises to back it all up. I add in the "think to spell" elements from SWR/WRTR during the dictations.

 

The program is "pick-up-and-go" and the levels can be done at whatever pace. When we start to feel the climb is too steep we slow it down and I add more copywork (copying sentences before dictating them).

[radiobrain]

I have used multiple spelling programs for my 11 yo.

 

So far our latest one seems to be doing something. We are beta testing The Logic of English accelerated spelling program. The book by itself actually could be extremely helpful. It focuses on rules and phonograms. The spelling program teaches them "out of order" from the book, and my son is happy that he is finally understanding how it works better.

 

It has a few glitches, but that is mostly as my son wants to know more than any spelling program is going to do. He doesn't want the how he also wants the why.

 

From your examples, I think it is just a rule/phonogram problem. Also, when you are teaching a word, you should actually emphasize the sound it should be. We pronounce things differently than how they were intended to be said, and then the rule/phonogram gets lost. take the word TALENTED... do we pronounce it tal-EN-ed?or is it a sloppy tal-in-tid that comes out of your mouth? Once they hear the way it is said for spelling, they can usually spell it, IMHO.

 

Anyway, there is no perfect spelling program. I think that all you can do is do the best you can and explain why things are the way they are, how they work and that it is better to learn the rule and screw up the exceptions than the other way around.

 

Really, the exceptions are what make English so difficult. Oh, and the assimilation of bits of words from other languages. ;) But once my son learned there are only 9 words in the english language that do this, and 3 that do this, etc, he chilled out a bit.

 

Good luck. Apples and Pears is good too. (the British one from Promethean Press).

 

Also, your kid might always be a bad speller, it happens. But they can get better.

Edited September 4, 2011 by radiobrain

[Quiver0f10]

I had a son who spelled like that. He learned to read young, but I didn't use a phonics based reading/spelling program, so his spelling was awful. Once he leared the rules with SWR, everything changed.

[Medieval Mom]

:seeya: just posting a "hi" to Medieval Mom, glad to see you back.

 

Hi, there! :seeya: Yes, I'm back after a long break due to two LONG periods of oversees in-laws staying with us. :blink: Whew! I'm exhausted, but getting back into the groove of things. September is always my favorite month.

 

Sorry for the hijack :blush: