Help! Balancing maturity and intellectual needs

[Reya]

I have a DS who is flying like crazy through grade levels. I'm not worried about most subjects--even English has ended up being just fine. But math's got me in a quandary.

 

DS is consuming math at a rate of 2-7 day-long lessons per day in RightStart. When we go back to Singapore for review, he does 5-45 days worth of lessons in one day. At his insistence, we do NOT take weekends or vacations off. I've mostly cut him down to 3 lessons of new material per day, which doesn't make my brain hurt *g* (it gets horrible tedious, even really fast), but this speed still means that we'll be looking at finishing at LEAST fourth grade before the end of Kindergarten. If he maintains 2/3 of my cut-back rate and take 50 days off, he'll finish sixth grade before starting first officially.

 

Now, he's mature for a 5-y-o, but he's still, well, a 5-y-o. So I'm trying to balance his age with the level of math that he's doing--and is going to be doing. He loves doing math *with* me at this age. With a kid going at a normal rate, I wouldn't demand that he be largely independent until 3rd grade in math. I don't think this would be a reasonable demand for a 5-y-o, though. Also, doing above-level math at a rate of 3 lessons a day, he gets a LOT more problems and worksheets assigned per day than is normal for a kid several years older than he is. It seems excessive to insist that he do all that writing. So right now, I require that he do the longest worksheet (RightStart) or a third of the worksheets (Singapore) himself, and I do the writing for the others. But I still make him do every single assigned problem.

 

What I'm not entirely sure about is our goal. By grade 6-level work, should he be doing ALL the writing and ALL the homework with no input and no secretary duties from me? He'll likely be 6 years old! But how weird would it be for me to be doing some of his writing in algebra? Right now, I can set him loose with an easy worksheet and come back to check it when he's done, but the hardest ones I have to check on every couple of problems, often to get him back on task. (He loves math but wants everything to be easy but not boring... :-) I think that's a natural attitude for a 5-y-o, if not a realistic one!) Once every 15 lessons or so, we hit a lesson where I have to coach him on each step of the first several problems on the worksheet, and he'll still make careless errors and miss a number of them, and this REALLY worries me. I KNOW I don't want to be doing that in algebra! But is it realistic to expect and demand that he monitor himself like that, particularly on something brand new?

 

The good thing is that even in algebra above, he'll have all of the material again with greater formalism when he's older. With that in mind, is it silly that I'm sweating the fact that he sometimes needs help? He also loves to sit in my lap and do his work, even if I'm not paying the least attention to it, and I'm inclined to think that this is reasonable for a 6 or 7-y-o, no matter what level of math they're doing. I want it to stay FUN for him, but I want to make very sure that he's not in the least just going through the motions, too.

 

Anyhow, I'm currently thinking, tentatively, that I will do any copying of equations out of the textbook until he is 3rd grade age. I'm tentatively thinking, too, that I may just require him to write the odds and I'll write the evens, since lots of teachers just assign one or the other, until that age. I'm also thinking that I'll continue to give a lesson of sorts rather than insist that he get everything from the book himself through 3rd grade age, too, and possibly 4th grade, but that I'll cut back as we go. And I think that he can do all his work sitting on my lap until 2nd grade. I'll still be asking a LOT more of him physically than is normal for his age, but I think that isn't *too* much, especially considering the level of work he'll be doing. Does this sound sane? Or sane-ish?

 

This was, of course, the child who, at age two, thought the BEST bedtime reading came from Shaum's Modern Physics Outline, with me doing all the equations orally! So I'm trying not to get too hung up on what's normal.

[Reya]

Singapore's doing the stop thing gap for me right now. I can get DS to do the workbook and intensive practice 99% independently. (He likes me to read the instructions even when he doesn't need it.) I haven't tried CWP independently yet. But I already know adding more drill would be a flop. He rejected adding Extra Practice to Singapore. The problem is that it doesn't last so long when he can do 20 worksheets or more at a sitting! And I feel guilty about asking him to do too much writing, anyway, and it's a bit mean to have him practice stuff he can do instantly, in his sleep.

 

For algebra, we're probably going to do NEM, which has a workbook. That means not too much writing of equations there!

 

DS used to love Destination Math when he was 2 and 3, but he's since been a little burned out on it. He'd want me to be with him, anyway--he hates being alone in a room. (Clearly not my son!) I'm planning on trying it on our vacation this summer. (No, I am NOT supposed to stop doing math over vacation. :-) )

 

My dream is just to give him a book and have him do it completely on his own, but I'm afraid I'm being really unrealistic for a kid this age.

[JennW in SoCal]

A few thoughts.

 

First, how cool that your son has a passion for math! Have you looked into other sources of materials to feed his passion? Teaching Company lectures, math game workbooks from Critical Thinking Press or Prufrock or Highlights, manipulatives like pattern blocks are some fun alternatives. There are also lots of web sites with math games for all levels or math worksheets. Having other outlets for exploring math would ease your burden for being his scribe. Or he could use Alexs.com (or is it Aleks?) for his math, which requires no writing and would let him advance as fast as he wants, and which lets no one off easily for making careless mistakes.

 

Second, your son might not necessarily continue with his current rapid rate of advancing through math lessons so that he might not be doing algebra in 6th grade. He may hit a wall with some concept or another, or his interest may wane somewhat while his other skills and maturity catch up. Its hard to say what he will be like in 2 years or 5, or if your lap will always be so available once a new baby comes.

 

I don't think it is a big deal for a 5 year old to make careless mistakes some days. And it is far too early to expect him to monitor himself. Teens often need to be reminded to check their own work! Your son is at an age where you simply should follow his interests, and keep things comfortable for him -- both of which you are already doing. It is natural to want to think ahead to how things will be in the future, and start planning how you will handle it, but really, it is impossible to know. I've been homeschooling for 9 years now -- believe me it is impossible to know!!! You just keep on being the responsive parent that you are -- be ready for most anything!

 

One last thought, a little less profound, perhaps. White boards are fun for doing math, and ease the burden of copying out endless problems because the colorful markers are fun, and you can write big.

[Reya]

Have you looked into other sources of materials to feed his passion? Teaching Company lectures, math game workbooks from Critical Thinking Press or Prufrock or Highlights, manipulatives like pattern blocks are some fun alternatives. There are also lots of web sites with math games for all levels or math worksheets. Having other outlets for exploring math would ease your burden for being his scribe. Or he could use Alexs.com (or is it Aleks?) for his math, which requires no writing and would let him advance as fast as he wants, and which lets no one off easily for making careless mistakes.

 

My mother cracked up when she was here because I let her borrow my slippers, and she put her foot in and found a pattern block. *g* Par for the course here!

 

We're going to use ALL the enrichment workbooks that Critical Thinking Co has. I think they're great.

 

I haven't tried ALEKS!

 

Second, your son might not necessarily continue with his current rapid rate of advancing through math lessons so that he might not be doing algebra in 6th grade. He may hit a wall with some concept or another, or his interest may wane somewhat while his other skills and maturity catch up. Its hard to say what he will be like in 2 years or 5, or if your lap will always be so available once a new baby comes.

 

He's been like this about math for three years now. I've just been REALLY bad about accommodating him until recently. I'd try to do what he wanted, get burned out, and hide for months. That was bad.

 

I'm counting on him slowing down by nearly half of what he's doing now. Otherwise, we'd be doing Algebra in the spring! Ack!

 

If I let him, we'd do math five hours a day. I know because I did it for three days during my "I'm going to be the best gifty mom EVER!" stage when I was determined to fully accommodate every little need.

 

Um. Yeah. That didn't last. Now I realize I have to not go CRAZY.

 

He's understanding things so well that it's almost like he's remembering them rather than learning them. If he blips on something mentally and we just move on to the next topic and come back in two weeks, he flies through it the second time as if he's been doing it all his life. He's doing things in his head that's WAY beyond what the curriculum asks for, laying down the foundation for much more advanced math. It's cool, but I get a bit tired thinking about it sometimes.

 

I don't think it is a big deal for a 5 year old to make careless mistakes some days. And it is far too early to expect him to monitor himself. Teens often need to be reminded to check their own work!

 

Thanks for the reassurance! Every day, I think, "I'm asking way too much to expect Y" and then the very next day, I turn around and think the exact opposite. *g* I seem to be always certain that I'm doing one or the other.

 

One last thought, a little less profound, perhaps. White boards are fun for doing math, and ease the burden of copying out endless problems because the colorful markers are fun, and you can write big.

 

He's a lefty, and he smears boards. He also likes writing small because he can keep everything lined up better. But it'd be a fun change of pace sometimes!

[Donna]

On Ruf's Levels of Giftedness, a Level 5 gifted child is capable of completing all grammar school material in 6 months time. A level 3 or 4 can complete it in no more than a year and a half. My 5yo dd is headed in that direction having completed 1st through 3rd grade this year.

 

That being said... I do not require her to do every problem...I skip lessons on topics she has already mastered and move faster on materials she masters quickly...and I also let some things go to come back to them later (like math facts which she is learning as she feels the need to know them or through repetition with higher level skills).

 

I don't think my dd would do so many worksheets in a day...well, maybe if I did the writing but we wouldn't have the time since I have other children to teach also. She is a girl (my boys were not so adept at writing when they were 5yo)...so she does the writing and reading on her worksheets easily but it is generally only a lesson or two a day. Her next math level requires a textbook and I will type or write out the problems for her as I did with her brothers (one of whom started Algebra in 5th grade and the other who will start it by mid-5th grade) until she is old enough to handle that part of it. I think it would be ridiculous to hold up her math studies because of her maturity level.

 

Also, I wouldn't be concerned if you son needs help at this point on certain things...it takes the average child 7 repetitions (as in lessons on the topic) to learn a new concept (one of the reasons grammar school math is so repetitive)...so the fact that it takes your son a little more than one is nothing to be worried about. You are doing a great job with him.

[Reya]

On Ruf's Levels of Giftedness, a Level 5 gifted child is capable of completing all grammar school material in 6 months time. A level 3 or 4 can complete it in no more than a year and a half. My 5yo dd is headed in that direction having completed 1st through 3rd grade this year.

 

 

I am/was a level 5 kiddo pretty handily, but I'd assumed my DS was either a very high 3 or a 4. Some serious auditory issues and dyslexia have caused all sorts of interference and problems with assessing what's going on in his brain, though, and he's looking more and more like a 5, which was the projection he was following from birth to 10 months.

 

(I taught him to follow one command before he was ten days old--"Let go of Mommy's hair, please!" It just about made people pee in amazement when he did that. He was rolling over by a week and could pick me out in a room and track me in and out of the room at three days old. But it's required just TONS of speech therapy to get him back on track again, poor guy.)

 

I am making him answer all the questions because it gives PLENTY of time for everything to gel and prevents any frustration. It's a lot more than most kids do and, yes, he could do a K-6 program MUCH faster if I just let him go as fast as he could understand it, but there is still a value is practice, even for the most intelligent students. Practice allows a concept to move from something consciously thought about into the realm of automaticity. This is important because it increases speed and accuracy and greatly reduces the overhead of the concept. I have discovered in self-education that while I can learn something very swiftly, through a single exposure and very little practice, if I don't practice, I can build up such a pile of things I have to actively think about that my learning becomes greatly impeded, and my accuracy drops. So even though I think that, yeah, he could probably learn all the concepts in just a few weeks, I don't think he'd be ready to go on in by my definition of readiness. :-) So rather than compacting the K-6 sequence, I'm having him do two different curricula and tons of enrichment--the exact opposite. I do as much as he still enjoys. So I'm playing a kind of balancing game.

 

I don't want him to grind to a halt because he starts Algebra I in K and gets bogged down when we get to Algebra II not because of the raw concepts but because of the greater number of things you have to keep in your brain. So that's why I want to make REALLY sure he knows everything inside and out.

 

The other kiddo I'm teaching much easier to categorize. I think he's a solid 3 with no 2-E issue or areas of extreme aptitude. He'll be doing 2nd grade work right as he starts Kindergarten, and he started nearly a year earlier with formal math than my DS. He'll finish the K-6 sequence in about four years with low pressure (counting pre-school). If he becomes driven, he'll do it in 3 without any difficulty, but any more than that, and I think he'd start to struggle.

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

Well, my child isn't as accelerated in math, although I believe it's because I was standing in his way..

 

Anyway, something that worked great for us was 'fridge math'. I got number magnets aplenty, and he would solve the problems using the fridge as his board, while I was free to cook dinner or clean the kitchen. The magnets actually slowed him down - looking for the right one, aligning it properly, etc.. He LOVED it, especially when a math problem had to be interrupted so I could get the milk. That was instant giggles.

 

The problems he solved were from Singapore Math.

[Reya]

Well, my child isn't as accelerated in math, although I believe it's because I was standing in his way..

 

Anyway, something that worked great for us was 'fridge math'. I got number magnets aplenty, and he would solve the problems using the fridge as his board, while I was free to cook dinner or clean the kitchen. The magnets actually slowed him down - looking for the right one, aligning it properly, etc.. He LOVED it, especially when a math problem had to be interrupted so I could get the milk. That was instant giggles.

 

The problems he solved were from Singapore Math.

 

Mine isn't the slightest bit interested in that. I tried it. What he cares about is how the numbers dance in his brain, and taking the time to find magnets keeps him interested exactly as long as it would take to do one problem. Then he wanders off. He wants to do everything he can mentally.

 

If I tried to keep him to or near his grade level, he'd be in tears and fits and would shut down. In fact, shutting down is exactly what he did when I tried to introduce Singapore's Extra Practice. He just looked at it and said, "I don't want to do this." He really is only mildly interested in well-known math concepts. What he really wants is NEW.

 

He also doesn't like puzzles. I don't think he sees the point. I never liked them, either, except as a social activity. So he's a weird gifted kid!

[JennW in SoCal]

Wow, you are in territory very unfamiliar to me, but I still have one more suggestion to throw out at you. Have you heard of the author Theoni Pappas? She's written books and puts out calendars that are filled with mathematical ideas -- numbers dance around in all her works! Check her out on Amazon -- The Adventures of Penrose the Mathematical Cat, for instance.

 

Your son might enjoy the Life of Fred books, too, as Fred is a young mathematical genius professor.

 

Best of luck on your journey!

[Laura Corin]

I think carrying on being secretary until 3rd grade or so by age is fine. I certainly did some writing for Calvin until that age, then phased it out.

 

Best wishes,

 

Laura

[Donna]

My dd loves to do the activities in this book to supplement her regular math curriculum... http://www.challengemath.com/primarygrade.htm

 

It teaches them to think mathematically rather than just doing facts.

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

Try and get yourself the "Challenging Mathematics" by Robert and Michel Lyons. They're a Quebec curriculum, but it's very different from the normal curriculum. I used it with my son (in French though) and it allowed me to keep him just 2 years ahead.

The curriculum is filled with logic problems, nice geometry problems (my son just studied the optimum inclination for stairs - as an introduction to what's a slope, but he was running around the house measuring our stairs and comparing). He also built a birdhouse in the section on measurements.

 

But Challenging Mathematics also has a huge component on numbers, and how they interact. Series, golden number, etc.

 

Oh yeah, last fun problem:

an ant is walking on an elastic at the rate of 6 cm per minute. At the end of every minute, the elastic is stretched by 12 cm (I'm not sure of this number). When will the ant reach the end of the elastic? Assume the elastic can be stretched indefinitely.

 

Now, if you take the elastic, and draw a spot on it representing the ant, you'll see that stretching will take the ant further down the elastic, so it would have reached the 9cm spot. The child has to take into consideration this stretching, of course, otherwise the ant would never reach the end. This is typical of Challenging Mathematics, lots of 'cognitive clashes' that are quite fun.

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

Here's the info I could find

 

 

# Challenging Mathematics

by Michel Lyons and Robert Lyons

Hardcover, Mondia Editeurs, ISBN 289114418X (2-89114-418-X)

More editions of Challenging Mathematics:

 

* Challenging Mathematics: Hardcover, Mondia Editeurs, ISBN 2891144643 (2-89114-464-3)

* Challenging Mathematics: Hardcover, Mondia Editeurs, ISBN 2891144724 (2-89114-472-4)

* Challenging Mathematics: Hardcover, Mondia Editeurs, ISBN 2891144783 (2-89114-478-3)

* Challenging Mathematics: Hardcover, Mondia Editeurs, ISBN 2891145364 (2-89114-536-4)

* Challenging Mathematics: Hardcover, Mondia Editeurs, ISBN 2891145771 (2-89114-577-1)

* Challenging Mathematics: Hardcover, Cheneliere/McGraw-Hill, ISBN 2894612508 (2-89461-250-8)

 

# Challenging Mathematics: Cycle 1

by Michel Lyons and Robert Lyons

Hardcover, Cheneliere/McGraw-Hill, ISBN 2894618700 (2-89461-870-0)

More editions of Challenging Mathematics: Cycle 1:

 

* Challenging Mathematics: Cycle 1: Hardcover, Cheneliere/McGraw-Hill, ISBN 2894618719 (2-89461-871-9)

* Challenging Mathematics, Cycle 1: Hardcover, Cheneliere/McGraw-Hill, ISBN 2894618727 (2-89461-872-7)

* Challenging Mathematics: Cycle 1: Hardcover, Cheneliere/McGraw-Hill, ISBN 2894618735 (2-89461-873-5)

[Reya]

My dd loves to do the activities in this book to supplement her regular math curriculum... http://www.challengemath.com/primarygrade.htm

 

It teaches them to think mathematically rather than just doing facts.

 

Yes! That book's on order. :-)

[Reya]

Here's the info I could find

 

Cool. Thanks! My only concern is his language processing problems--he may or may not be able to process some of the questions sufficiently to understand what's being asked.

 

Edit: Hmmm. I can't seem to find anywhere that actually SELLS this book. I'd really prefer English because then DS could read it.

 

This isn't the same as Défi mathématique, is it? I got the first section of that a couple of years ago on your recommendation and DS flew through it.

[Reya]

Wow, you are in territory very unfamiliar to me, but I still have one more suggestion to throw out at you. Have you heard of the author Theoni Pappas? She's written books and puts out calendars that are filled with mathematical ideas -- numbers dance around in all her works! Check her out on Amazon -- The Adventures of Penrose the Mathematical Cat, for instance.

 

Your son might enjoy the Life of Fred books, too, as Fred is a young mathematical genius professor.

 

Best of luck on your journey!

 

I've heard and was planning on grabbing those and the Sir Cumference books, which look thoroughly cute!

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

Cool. Thanks! My only concern is his language processing problems--he may or may not be able to process some of the questions sufficiently to understand what's being asked.

 

Those books are not workbooks. You're supposed to be there with the child, and discuss the problems. They are classroom books, and the discussions are an integral part of the program. IMHO, it's the only program that successfully uses classroom discussions for a real purpose, and not just to say that classroom discussions are being done.

 

 

Edit: Hmmm. I can't seem to find anywhere that actually SELLS this book. I'd really prefer English because then DS could read it.

I have a friend who has a few grades for sale. I could ask her the price (and which grades they are)

 

The French books are easy to find, the English are rarer than gold!

 

Do you have any knowledge of French? Because the authors have re-written their series for homeschoolers and distribute it for free. Yes, free! The homeschool series goes even further than the school one. (grade 1 starts with square numbers and square roots. My DS went banana over that, he was thrilled! Grade 1 also covers equations of the first degree) The homeschool series is meant for the parent. It's a collection of math exercises to be done with the child, but not something he can do on his own.

 

Edit; you're editing your post as I'm editing mine. ;-)

Yes, it's Défi Mathematiques in French. My own DS also flew through the series, up to grade 4. Then I switched him over to the book version, which has more exercises - still challenging though. Like converting numbers from the Sumerian to the Egyptian way of counting. Stuff like that. Interesting even for mom...

[Reya]

Those books are not workbooks. You're supposed to be there with the child, and discuss the problems. They are classroom books, and the discussions are an integral part of the program. IMHO, it's the only program that successfully uses classroom discussions for a real purpose, and not just to say that classroom discussions are being done.

 

 

 

I have a friend who has a few grades for sale. I could ask her the price (and which grades they are)

 

The French books are easy to find, the English are rarer than gold!

 

Do you have any knowledge of French? Because the authors have re-written their series for homeschoolers and distribute it for free. Yes, free! The homeschool series goes even further than the school one. (grade 1 starts with square numbers and square roots. My DS went banana over that, he was thrilled! Grade 1 also covers equations of the first degree) The homeschool series is meant for the parent. It's a collection of math exercises to be done with the child, but not something he can do on his own.

 

 

This must be Défi mathématique, then! Yes, I muddled through the first section I got emailed. (I know Spanish, a reasonable amount of Latin, and the French I've just sort of absorbed, so it's enough.) I'll take another look at it. He might enjoy doing the upper levels beyond what we'd first been sent! The author was reluctant to give a 3-y-o anything except the very first section even though he'd already worked through Singapore's EB kindergarten, so all I've seen is the beginning.

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

Yes, the author has some problems dealing with advanced kids. Even though his series is good for those kids!

I have year 2 here, somewhere on the computer, that I could send you.

[Reya]

Edit; you're editing your post as I'm editing mine. ;-)

Yes, it's Défi Mathematiques in French. My own DS also flew through the series, up to grade 4. Then I switched him over to the book version, which has more exercises - still challenging though. Like converting numbers from the Sumerian to the Egyptian way of counting. Stuff like that. Interesting even for mom...

 

Yes, confusing everyone with many edits!

 

Since I'd be using it as a supplement, I think we won't want extra exercises. I printed out the sections I have and will try to get the next few and take them on vacation with us! That, the Primary Challenge Math, the last of Mind Building Math, and the rest of Singapore 1-2 ought to keep him PLENTY busy for a week. :-)

[Reya]

Yes, the author has some problems dealing with advanced kids. Even though his series is good for those kids!

I have year 2 here, somewhere on the computer, that I could send you.

 

That'd be great!

 

Yes, he insisted that kids under 5 couldn't do the program. Um. Oh-KAY....

 

Oh, and my email is connected to my username.

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

if Mr Lyons doesn't want for some reasons to send you the next section, let me know. I have them on my computer somewhere.

 

Posting again at the same time! That makes this particular post completely useless now! LOL

[Reya]

If you don't get emails at the addy I you have in your profile, mine is reyesuela@yahoo.com.

[lovemyboys]

First, how cool that your son has a passion for math! Have you looked into other sources of materials to feed his passion?

 

One last thought, a little less profound, perhaps. White boards are fun for doing math, and ease the burden of copying out endless problems because the colorful markers are fun, and you can write big.

 

My ds aren't on this fast a track, but Jenn's are great ideas that work here. Your lefty will figure out how to avoid smears and the whiteboard is a source of endless fun here too.

 

How about fractiles and tangrams too? I bought a number of different math supplements like a multiplication board when we first started, I'm still amazed at how much time dc spend with those things...so worth the money!

[Reya]

My ds aren't on this fast a track, but Jenn's are great ideas that work here. Your lefty will figure out how to avoid smears and the whiteboard is a source of endless fun here too.

 

How about fractiles and tangrams too? I bought a number of different math supplements like a multiplication board when we first started, I'm still amazed at how much time dc spend with those things...so worth the money!

 

 

I have tangrams. DS is more interested in a puzzle called Shape by Shape, which is much like tangrams. Haven't done anything with fractiles yet.

 

I think the drawing portion of RightStart is super cool, too!

[nmoira]

I know this doesn't address the bulk of your concerns, but have you looked into EPGY? I know it's expensive, but if your local public schools participate in EPGY's Schools Program, you may be able to purchase it discounted through them. They also give discounted tuition based on family income and number of courses being taken simultaneously.

[Reya]

I know this doesn't address the bulk of your concerns, but have you looked into EPGY? I know it's expensive, but if your local public schools participate in EPGY's Schools Program, you may be able to purchase it discounted through them. They also give discounted tuition based on family income and number of courses being taken simultaneously.

 

I've looked into it, but considering the likelihood of it being a good fit (DS REALLY likes human interaction), it doesn't seem worth the risk.

[lighthouseacademy]

I can relate to much of what you have said about your son. I can also relate to the poster who said her son is not as far accelerated because she stood in his way. My son would do 2-10 RS lessons in a day as well. If I had all the time in the world, he would have completed B, C and probably be in D now. However, I have stood a bit in his way. I have nonchalantly handed him workbooks to play with, played math games, and we do a lot of mental math. I also require all writing of him. As he gets more advanced, the actual writing of it will be important to cementing the concepts. Also, it will be very tedious for him to coach you on exactly what to do rather than you preemptively doing some of the minor steps. My son was much more inclined to write numbers than he was to write words, so he has never complained at writing numbers. We like the books by Greg Tang- Math Appeal, Math Potatoes, etc. They are logic picture riddles.

[KAR120C]

They're two completely different things, and it isn't any weirder to help him write for algebra than for him to BE in algebra... kwim? DS was 7 when we started Algebra, and I still did a tiny bit of writing (less than one problem per set). That was also the first time that I could really try to slow him down at all. Juggling algebra, geometry and statistics -- four books in all including NEM 1 -- has dragged it all out quite a bit. Actually it's more that he started slowly (sort of) and with a kind of meandering path through things, and has wound up in the last month or so just plowing through again. So this slowing down thing maybe isn't permanent...

 

Anyway, point being, you have to teach the kid you have. If he's ready for more math, give him more math. If he's not up to writing much, don't make him write much. If that's weird, well... okay. Sometimes things just are! Unless it actually creates problems, I'd just go with the flow. You've been given some good ideas for non-writing math (I'll add Gelfand for algebra -- lots of thinking and discussing, not much writing), but I think if your writing for him is a problem, you'll know, and then you can change it. Until then I wouldn't borrow trouble.

 

On this point:

I'm also thinking that I'll continue to give a lesson of sorts rather than insist that he get everything from the book himself through 3rd grade age, too, and possibly 4th grade, but that I'll cut back as we go.

I would say absolutely be prepared to give lessons -- straight up through high school. Yes, it's entirely possible that he could learn everything from the book, but IMO it's quite appropriate for you to teach him anything that he needs teaching, and I don't really see a benefit to not teaching a lesson, unless a) you can't or b) he really prefers that you not. If it's just a matter of independence, I'd let him be dependent for lessons and independent for practice/homework and tests.

[sarahberry]

Your son sounds in many ways like my own. I know that my son could do a lot more than I give him but he is one of four children so I have to draw some boundries on what I can and can't give. He just turned five but is going to finish third grade math this year with ease. This is lower than his level but my reason is that we are doing a full program of subjects and there is a lot of writing to do in many of the subjects. I want this year to be a lot about refining his writing skills as well as training him to work a little more independently (nescessary in our home because we have other children to work with). He writes fluently in cursive and I am working on bulding his endurance so when he is a seven or eight year old doing algebra and high school level subjects all aournd the board he will be able to keep up in writing as well as working with independence. This is just what I have to do though since there is little chance that I could play the role of secretary for him for much longer. Though it would be unwise to expect such a young child to work fully on his own it certainly is a good time to start training the child to work independently whether you have the luxory of sitting with your child all day or not.

 

I can't really give advice on a math program to use. It highly depends on needs. I have tried many programs. My ds is such an amazing abstract thinker already that I prefer to use a very conrete curriculum with him at an accelerated pace. I know a lot of other parents of gifted children prefer quite the opposite though.

 

I used to drive myself buggy trying to accomodate my ds's needs and preferences. I gave up trying that and just decided that like it or not he is going to have to get with a program that isn't going to burn me out! He was a very demanding baby who always needed constant stimulation night and day. He is still very needy but now he can fend for himself a lot more because he has the ability to read and comprehend at at least a middle school level or higher. I am surprised I didn't burn out already tryign to accomodate his serious need for materials and his drive to absorb information.

 

This year I made a program for him that is both easy in some ways but very challengiing in others but he has to do it on my schedule because he is old enough to realize that the world isn't going to revolve around him. In a home with four children and growing it can't. Does he always like what I give him to do? No, but I do know what he needs and I also know that it is good for him to learn to do some things he doesn't like to do. I think that he is happy with this set up and if he doesn't find as much challenge one day in one subject he will find it in another. Gifted or not some day he is going to have to function in an average world such as when he goes to college and finds that things aren't made to accomodate him but rather he must sometimes yield to schedules adn agendas other than his own preferences. Or when he enters the working world and things are on terms not always his own or to his preferences. I guess for me I see that looking at the whole picture means educating a gifted child very well but at the same time preparing them to deal with the realities of life and those aren't alwasy goign to be as accomodating to the gifted person as we can make the world for our child in the home. It doesn't mean dumbing a child down or that a child is being held from reaching out to his full potential though.

 

I don't think you are in the wrong to have your child do more written work than most five year olds...mine does, for sure. I can't say I insist he do every problem though on every page. If he knows it and it solid on the concept it wouldn't kill him to not do a few of the practice problems. Since we are doing a full program we don't always have time to do a whole page of problems but half is many times sufficient. If you are really doing a full program and not just a couple subjects then maybe it might be a bit much but I don't recollect you mentioning what else you all were doing in addition to the math.

 

We are doing:

 

Math

English Grammar

Literature Study

Spelling

Vocabulary

Science

History

Art

Music

Religious Studies

Foreign Language

 

The grade ranges of the subjects are mostly 3-6 grades with a couple starting at 2 but will be up to beginning fourth at the end of the school year. This is a lot for many five year olds. I wondered for awhile if it was too much but my husband pointed out that it isn't fair to compare him to an average five year old so it isn't fair to have to same expectations in all areas of development as an average five year old, academically speaking, of course.

 

In terms of emotional maturity I would say he is many ages. He is as comfortable acting younger than five as he is acting much older. I think this is common with gifted persons and a fact of life. It may seem odd that he does what seems impossible for most young children several years older than he is and then he still walks around with a stuffed animal or throws an occasional tantrum. I guess the key is moderation in all things as well as looking at the whole picture and how it will pan out in the long term.

[Reya]

If you are really doing a full program and not just a couple subjects then maybe it might be a bit much but I don't recollect you mentioning what else you all were doing in addition to the math.

 

We're doing reading, handwriting, grammar, spelling, history, science, Bible, memory work, Spanish, Bible, music, and art. But not everything every day during the summer!

 

In emotional maturity, he's quite advanced--probably three years, at least. Physical maturity, though, he's above average in most things, but nothing to write home about!

[Kay in Cal]

This was one of the reasons we moved to EPGY--the online format was so much easier for my ds when we started last year. No copying, no answers I couldn't read. And it is done mostly independently as well. I know I keep talking about it, but EPGY really has been great for us!

[summer]

l