Just a ?. Not a fight. Please.

[Orthodox6]

Thinking out loud, no more than that.

 

Why do so many homeschoolers want to replicate "honors" and/or "AP" courses for their high school students?

 

I don't believe it is wrong to do so !

 

I try to teaching rock-solid courses in all subjects. I don't feel any compulsion to label them "honors" or "AP". Some of my coursework probably has qualified as such, over the years, but I don't worry about it. High quality provided for my children is my aim.

 

If respondents don't mind sharing honest introspection, is this trend followed because of competition for college admission, or because of a deeply-buried insecurity of how homeschooling coursework stacks up -- (in the eyes of the sometimes hostile non-homeschooling world) -- against that of "outside schools"?

 

Similar possibility, perhaps, is it that homeschoolers are imitating outside schools, where AP classes have proliferated like healthy rabbits?

 

Not a trace of anti-intellectualism among my family, as dh and my education proves. I'm not coming from that angle.

 

I'm just interested and very curious.

Edited July 30, 2011 by Orthodox6

[regentrude]

I want my high schooler to receive an education according to her abilities. She would not be challenged by a standard high school course (took college physics in 8th grade), but needs more challenging coursework, at least what an AP level class would provide. I would like her transcript to reflect this level of work to accurately describe her education.

She is interested in attending a selective university and will be competing with students who took these kinds of classes in school. So, we need to make sure she has at least a few SATIIs and APs.

 

I have no insecurities about homeschooling, but see the value in an outside validation that goes beyond a mommy transcript.

[Orthodox6]

Thank you!

 

One vote, then, for competitive admissions process. (This is a very legitimate scenario!)

 

Both SAT-II and AP exams can be taken without reference to what the high school transcript labels a course.

 

My only experience with transcript for a [selective] school entailed me compiling an exhaustive list of all books and resources used by my ds during high school. That list made incontrovertibly clear that he was operating at the level of an upper classman, even of a graduate student in his target field. (He was admitted to the university, with a scholarship.)

 

 

 

 

 

I want my high schooler to receive an education according to her abilities. She would not be challenged by a standard high school course (took college physics in 8th grade), but needs more challenging coursework, at least what an AP level class would provide. I would like her transcript to reflect this level of work to accurately describe her education.

She is interested in attending a selective university and will be competing with students who took these kinds of classes in school. So, we need to make sure she has at least a few SATIIs and APs.

 

I have no insecurities about homeschooling, but see the value in an outside validation that goes beyond a mommy transcript.

[nynyny]

I want my high schooler to receive an education according to her abilities. She would not be challenged by a standard high school course (took college physics in 8th grade), but needs more challenging coursework, at least what an AP level class would provide. I would like her transcript to reflect this level of work to accurately describe her education.

She is interested in attending a selective university and will be competing with students who took these kinds of classes in school. So, we need to make sure she has at least a few SATIIs and APs.

 

I have no insecurities about homeschooling, but see the value in an outside validation that goes beyond a mommy transcript.

 

:iagree:

[Jen in DE]

Around here, most kids strive for honors and AP courses. Our local university REQURES many of these. I will go with both college competition, as well as outside pressure regarding homeschooling. I know a lot of homeschoolers in our area who don't worry about it, but they usually don't end up going to top universities, either. My daughter just wants to go to our local university, but she is hoping to get a scholarship so that she can live on campus instead of at home.

I feel a lot of pressure for my kid to take AP and honors courses, as we live in a college town, and many of her friends have professors for parents. These parents put a HUGE emphasis on school, and are constantly questioning and evaluating what I am doing in our homeschool. Needless to say, I have become very good at switching the subject!

[Susan C.]

I want the proper credit given for what is done. And our state has ranking for scholarships that is based on GPA, without the weighted honors courses there is no chance of getting some scholarships.

[Orthodox6]

Sigh. Outside schools often rely on grade inflation. If we, too, must switch to "weighted" GPAs, then the racket is worse than I thought.

 

Starting to sound as if a portfolio, coupled with an annotated transcript, may be best way to go, because this provides concrete proof of what the student has accomplished.

Edited July 30, 2011 by Orthodox6

[EKS]

I will not be labeling any of my son's courses as honors though I think many of them would qualify as honors level. I figure I'll let the course descriptions/book lists speak for themselves.

 

ETA: My son will be looking at highly selective schools.

Edited July 30, 2011 by EKS

[Hunter's Moon]

Competition.

 

I was mostly worried when I left public school for 11th grade how my transcript would look next to all the students who had honors or AP designations on their transcript.

 

I recently found out all classes I take at the CC will be given AP credit and I was ecstatic. My GPA will be higher and it shows my abilities.

 

Am I saying you absolutely need AP and honor designations to be accepted and given generous scholarship money? No. Does it hurt at all, though? Nope.

[chepyl]

Some colleges look for honors or AP classes for admission. If it comes down to a few students waiting for the last spot at a selective school, you want the designations, but only if the work was truly at that level. If your student can take, amd pass am AP test, I think you cam safely call the class itself AP.

[elegantlion]

I will not be labeling any of my son's courses as honors though I think many of them would qualify as honors level. I figure I'll let the course descriptions/book lists speak for themselves.

 

This is my plan as well.

 

Also my understanding is you can not label a class as AP unless you have your syllabus approved by the AP board.

 

I'm not sure if we'll do any AP tests, if so the class will be labeled as a regular class and the test score will be listed.

 

My son will probably (subject to change) not be looking at highly selective schools.

[KAR120C]

I try to teaching rock-solid courses in all subjects. I don't feel any compulsion to label them "honors" or "AP". Some of my coursework probably has qualified as such, over the years, but I don't worry about it. High quality provided for my children is my aim.

This is pretty much my approach too.... with one big exception. DS is young, and when I say we're doing "x", the assumption is frequently that we're doing a very light introduction to it, and not a Real Class. Mostly I don't care what anyone else thinks, and for transcript purposes I go with the list of resources and portfolio of samples rather than trying to claim any honors designations... but I had a little temper tantrum a few years back.

 

One mom had been literally following me around all day at a picnic, quizzing me about the statistics course I was doing with DS, what materials we were using, what kinds of assignments he had, etc. I finally gave in and described it all in great detail - the college textbook, the extra reading and math, the calculator programming and SAS programming and database programming tie-ins, the extensive projects submitted for various competitions, and the exams. And she said "oh yeah, that's what we're doing too." I know I said I don't care what other people think... but she had gotten on my last nerve - they were Not Doing The Same Thing. Not even close. And for all my careful description apparently she still thought we were spending the whole year averaging different things and making pie charts.

 

It would have just been a little snit, only it just happened that that night we had a party to go to where I might have had maybe one or two drinks more than I ought to have... and then went home and wrote up the whole course description and submitted it for AP approval.

 

This is what happens when math geeks get drunk.

 

I still don't put "AP" on the transcript, because he has yet to take the exam... but the plan is for him to do that this coming spring, at which point I will stick it on the transcript somewhere.

 

The only other APs I'm seriously considering at this point are for Spanish and Latin, just because again at his age people frequently assume he's still learning songs about vegetables... but since those classes are outsourced and graded, I'm not as twitchy about it as I was about Statistics.

[Sunshine State Sue]

This is what happens when math geeks get drunk.

 

:lol:

 

OT: Have you seen the play (not the movie) Proof? I love that play. The math geek reminded me of it, not the math drunk. ;)

[Laurie4b]

College admission process. Colleges weight transcripts and students who have taken courses not labeled honors or AP will be seriously handicapped compared to those who are their academic equals.

 

This is an issue if you have a student seeking admission to a selective university.

 

Why would you NOT label a course honors if it is, indeed, it is a course of that level?

[TechWife]

is this trend followed because of competition for college admission

 

This is why it is happening in our area. Two of our state universities are among the top in the nation and they are selective in their admissions process.

 

I've also observed a great deal of mompetition in our area as well, and it's not always in the best interests of the kids.

Edited July 30, 2011 by TechWife

[Teachin'Mine]

Same as Regentrude and the others - competition.

 

It also more accurately reflects what level of work we're doing. For many public school classes, the "regular" classes have had lowered standards and the typical "honors" class is what used to be the regular course. If I were to designate something as honors, and I'm not sure yet whether I will or not, it's because it is above and beyond the usual, or even AP level - but not qualified to be designated an AP course. When colleges compare GPAs, ours will be compared with students approaching a 5. If the school unweights grades, then all are on a more even field assuming all took challenging courses, but some schools compare based on the weighted GPA. We're at a disadvantage as Seton doesn't have any honors designation available. I'd venture that many, if not most, of their classes would qualify as honors level.

[KAR120C]

:lol:

 

OT: Have you seen the play (not the movie) Proof? I love that play. The math geek reminded me of it, not the math drunk. ;)

But now I'm going to have to keep an eye out for it! :) Is the movie awful? or a completely different story? or is it just not as good?

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

I do not have a high schooler yet (my oldest is going into 8th grade) and I have not decided how to do her transcripts yet. My amateur guess would be transcripts and college admittance. I do not yet know how I am going to "label" dd's work on her transcripts, I know a few areas she will be working at an "honors" level- but if its labeled that it would be strictly for college admittance. She is doing a bit of remedial math (I think? Who knows) but as long as they are on their level there is no need to label it as ahead, IMO. I think its funny also because you don't see it labeled as remedial math, or remedial English.

 

Maybe some take outsourced classes and that is just the name of the class? I don't know. :001_smile:

[Orthodox6]

assorted reasons, in my still-developing-scenario. First-up college dc went to CC, and has not yet studied beyond that. Second-up college dc is the one I mentioned earlier -- the one whose finely-detailed transcript landed him in a good school.

 

Next-up dc is the current work-in-progress.

 

There are reasons that our dc all shall obtain their initial college degrees close to home, where there are only a couple of "selective/good" schools, but several "ok" choices. Nobody will be jockeying for a slot in the Ivies or similar. So we are spared the stab-your-competition routine, I feel pretty sure.

 

I speak only for myself, and am not evaluating anybody else's course offerings. I would feel pompous to call any of my classes "honors". We do not have access (as homeschoolers) to university libraries. (When I was in high school, we had passes to Rice University library, courtesy of our honors biology teacher.) We do not own expensive laboratory equipment. Goodness, we are not even allowed to join the local co-ops ! (discussed in threads elsewhere) In addition, since I was graduated from a top university, I don't want to fall into a trap of over-estimating the academic prowess of my own dc. (No Lake Wobegon here ! :) )

 

 

 

College admission process. Colleges weight transcripts and students who have taken courses not labeled honors or AP will be seriously handicapped compared to those who are their academic equals.

 

This is an issue if you have a student seeking admission to a selective university.

 

Why would you NOT label a course honors if it is, indeed, it is a course of that level?

[Tardis Girl]

... you want the designations, but only if the work was truly at that level. If your student can take, amd pass am AP test, I think you cam safely call the class itself AP.

 

Just to be clear: we cannot use the term "AP" on a transcript unless that course syllabus was submitted to and approved by College Board. You can call something "honors" of course... just not "AP" because that is a registered trademark and the use of that term is governed by College Board and their requirements. Although anyone is welcome to study independently and take an AP exam *without* taking an AP "approved" course... just wanted to clarify.

 

For our family, we NEVER really worried about grades or labeling or anything when our kids were younger or earlier in the teens. I do feel that we had a very strong academic focus even without that, and an education rooted in the classics. Life was good. So I wasn't terribly happy about feeling like I had to jump through someone else's hoops come high school. BUT, we decided to play the game, at least to a certain extent.

 

At least one university my teens were considering specifically said that additional preference was given to applicants who took AP courses **AND/OR** AP exams. So to me, I felt like if I wanted to give them a better shot at a reasonably competitive school it was worth it to "play the game" and go through the AP approval process for at least a few courses. This way they would have AP courses **AND** AP exams to list out. The term "honors" carries no specific requirements with it, so I thought perhaps that would not be as meaningful to colleges (for what my goals were). I am by no means saying that my children had a better education by virtue of taking "approved" AP courses (and in fact I miss the days before high school because of some of that), but I knew my teens were looking at some schools that weren't necessarily super accustomed to homeschoolers. The use of some AP courses (instead of honors only) gives the prospective schools something they can recognize when they see these transcripts/applications amidst thousands of others.

 

I really don't want to play the game. But ultimately I wasn't willing to gamble with my teens' options. I don't want them to just blend in and look like everyone else, but there are plenty of ways to demonstrate strengths and uniqueness while still showing colleges the things they like to see. At least, that was my thinking when they were halfway through high school. Maybe I'll do things differently when my younger set gets to that age. I'm sure their goals will factor in to how I'm inclined to proceed.

 

Sorry this got so long. But good question, OP! :)

[Maura in NY]

I will not be labeling any of my son's courses as honors though I think many of them would qualify as honors level. I figure I'll let the course descriptions/book lists speak for themselves.

 

ETA: My son will be looking at highly selective schools.

 

This is how I look at it, as well. My son applied to a wide variety of colleges, and was accepted at several highly selective schools.

 

On the Common App, you -- as the "school" -- are asked about the highest level classes offered in each subject. I just listed what my son did as being the highest level available. In addition, on the Grading section of the Homeschool Statement, I included this paragraph:

 

As the honors designation is used primarily as a way of tiering classes, it is not applicable in our homeschool setting. While no classes are designated as "Honors", the choice of materials and the quantity of reading required for most courses would merit the label in many schools (see Course Descriptions and Reading List).

 

The Common App asks if you weight your GPA, so they know if they are comparing apples to oranges. All but the smallest colleges are used to comparing students from a variety of school settings, from very academic prep academies to poor performing urban or rural schools. Most of the advisers we talked to made it clear that they don't just throw every one into a hat and pick the highest numbers off the top. They know "Biology" isn't the same everywhere. That's why Course Descriptions matter, and why you should take advantage of every part of the application process that gives you the opportunity to talk about your homeschooling philosophy and methods.

 

 

 

Rather than create an application package that looked just like the ps kids', we choose to emphasize the academic freedom provided by homeschooling instead.

 

 

 

He had 2 APs on his transcript (from PA Homeschoolers), and one CC class. Everything else, regardless of how rigorous it was, was just listed as a regular subject. He did take 3 SAT IIs, because they were required by his first choice school.

 

 

It's really tough to figure out how to walk this narrow road between following their interests, and wanting them to be "acceptable" to their schools of choice. It think it's one of the hardest parts of high school.

 

MHO,

 

Maura

[ma23peas]

I teach writing classes and was going to go through the process of getting my course AP approved..mainly to alert the families signing up that this is rigorous...some students would not do well in this class. I opted to call it Honors, and in that I mean that it will require more hours of work a week than your standard class...

 

Last year, I taught two year programs in one year....I consider that rigorous, it's essentially twice the work and they are only getting one credit instead of two...that is how I distinguish honors over 'standard' classes....all based on the number of hours a week and the amount/level of work they are completing. Essentially, the amount of work is equal to if not more than a college level course in the same subject.

 

HTH!

[Laurie4b]

Some colleges look for honors or AP classes for admission. If it comes down to a few students waiting for the last spot at a selective school, you want the designations, but only if the work was truly at that level. If your student can take, amd pass am AP test, I think you cam safely call the class itself AP.

 

Actually, you can't. To call a course AP, you have to submit the syllabus to the Collegeboard for approval.

[elegantlion]

This is how I look at it, as well. My son applied to a wide variety of colleges, and was accepted at several highly selective schools.

 

On the Common App, you -- as the "school" -- are asked about the highest level classes offered in each subject. I just listed what my son did as being the highest level available. In addition, on the Grading section of the Homeschool Statement, I included this paragraph:

 

As the honors designation is used primarily as a way of tiering classes, it is not applicable in our homeschool setting. While no classes are designated as "Honors", the choice of materials and the quantity of reading required for most courses would merit the label in many schools (see Course Descriptions and Reading List).

 

The Common App asks if you weight your GPA, so they know if they are comparing apples to oranges. All but the smallest colleges are used to comparing students from a variety of school settings, from very academic prep academies to poor performing urban or rural schools. Most of the advisers we talked to made it clear that they don't just throw every one into a hat and pick the highest numbers off the top. They know "Biology" isn't the same everywhere. That's why Course Descriptions matter, and why you should take advantage of every part of the application process that gives you the opportunity to talk about your homeschooling philosophy and methods.

 

 

 

Rather than create an application package that looked just like the ps kids', we choose to emphasize the academic freedom provided by homeschooling instead.

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you! I copied this to save for future use.

[Laurie4b]

:

 

It was a rhetorical question, but :tongue_smilie:

 

If you haven't, check with your univeristy library. The ones here do let people check out books. I can't remember whether I can because I'm an alum, but I'm guessing it's because I am a member of the community. There is a small fee, similar to getting a card in the library from the next county over.

[Kim in SouthGa]

The son my college is looking at says that most accepted applicants have a 3.8 (I think) to 4.5 GPA. They specifically say they want to see honors and AP courses on the transcript. I am making sure that anything that I mark as honors is at least equal to school honors courses. There are tons of syllabi out there to look at for comparison.

While our academics may mirror a lot of public/private schools because of the labels of our courses, I am counting on my sons wide range of outside activities to set him apart. He is active in Key Club, Omicron Delta HOnor Society, Debate, theater group, will attend Teen Pact, is working on the Congressional Award, etc.

Edited July 30, 2011 by Kim in SouthGa

[snowbeltmom]

They specifically say they want to see honors and AP courses on the transcript.

 

Just curious if the college is asking this of homeschoolers, or is this statement geared towards the public schooled kids?

[angela in ohio]

I want my high schooler to receive an education according to her abilities. She would not be challenged by a standard high school course (took college physics in 8th grade), but needs more challenging coursework, at least what an AP level class would provide. I would like her transcript to reflect this level of work to accurately describe her education.

She is interested in attending a selective university and will be competing with students who took these kinds of classes in school. So, we need to make sure she has at least a few SATIIs and APs.

 

I have no insecurities about homeschooling, but see the value in an outside validation that goes beyond a mommy transcript.

 

This.

 

Some schools (and scholarship committees) will take the time to look through our descriptions and book lists. Some will just look at the title of the course, I'm sure. My dd has easily earned an Honors designation in most of her courses, so she gets it. I have done the research to find out what is going on in other schools, and we do use the university I attend for both the library and databases (and access to professors :001_smile:,) and I do stock a full lab for each science course (if those are criteria being used.) We don't use local co-ops for core courses, but that's because they usually aren't Honors or AP quality courses.

 

And the process of submitting an AP syllabus for approval made me a better teacher, too. I have always taken care to plan work for the year, but this made me examine my teaching in a whole new way. It will improve our entire homeschool, not just the AP courses.

 

I am confident that we will have SAT-II, AP, and SAT scores that back up my labeling of courses.

Edited July 31, 2011 by angela in ohio

[Sunshine State Sue]

But now I'm going to have to keep an eye out for it! :) Is the movie awful? or a completely different story? or is it just not as good?

Definitely keep an eye open for it. I have not seen the movie, but it did not receive positive reviews. The entire play is set on the back porch of a house, which apparently does not translate well to film, so they adjusted...

 

Proof

[In The Great White North]

I had always heard that colleges "reworked" the GPA's to try to compare apples to apples, so this talk of colleges requiring Honors or AP courses is new to me.

 

What schools do this?

[Sunshine State Sue]

I've also observed a great deal of mompetition in our area as well

:lol:

 

Interesting. I noticed that of the small group of hs'ers we know who have taken the college placement test for dual enrollment at CC, only my son and one other passed all parts.

[Stacy in NJ]

courses and GPA are part of the material considered, the SAT and/or ACT are significant considerations. Schools public and private across the US of A label classes as Honors and AP, but their quality varies greatly. There's tremendous GPA and class title inflation, but the standardized tests aren't playable.

[Orthodox6]

Thank you, Maura. You express yourself well and helpfully.

 

 

 

This is how I look at it, as well. My son applied to a wide variety of colleges, and was accepted at several highly selective schools.

 

On the Common App, you -- as the "school" -- are asked about the highest level classes offered in each subject. I just listed what my son did as being the highest level available. In addition, on the Grading section of the Homeschool Statement, I included this paragraph:

 

As the honors designation is used primarily as a way of tiering classes, it is not applicable in our homeschool setting. While no classes are designated as "Honors", the choice of materials and the quantity of reading required for most courses would merit the label in many schools (see Course Descriptions and Reading List).

 

 

The Common App asks if you weight your GPA, so they know if they are comparing apples to oranges. All but the smallest colleges are used to comparing students from a variety of school settings, from very academic prep academies to poor performing urban or rural schools. Most of the advisers we talked to made it clear that they don't just throw every one into a hat and pick the highest numbers off the top. They know "Biology" isn't the same everywhere. That's why Course Descriptions matter, and why you should take advantage of every part of the application process that gives you the opportunity to talk about your homeschooling philosophy and methods.

 

 

 

Rather than create an application package that looked just like the ps kids', we choose to emphasize the academic freedom provided by homeschooling instead.

 

 

 

He had 2 APs on his transcript (from PA Homeschoolers), and one CC class. Everything else, regardless of how rigorous it was, was just listed as a regular subject. He did take 3 SAT IIs, because they were required by his first choice school.

 

 

It's really tough to figure out how to walk this narrow road between following their interests, and wanting them to be "acceptable" to their schools of choice. It think it's one of the hardest parts of high school.

 

MHO,

 

Maura

[Orthodox6]

This is exactly what I was told by an admissions counselor at one of the two selective schools where I live. He was an admissions counselor dedicated to homeschooling applicants, but made clear that this holds for all students.

 

 

courses and GPA are part of the material considered, the SAT and/or ACT are significant considerations. Schools public and private across the US of A label classes as Honors and AP, but their quality varies greatly. There's tremendous GPA and class title inflation, but the standardized tests aren't playable.

[StephanieZ]

I'm not concerned about honors designations, as I consider all our schooling to be at honors level, but I do plan to use AP testing to validate my dcs' transcripts and possibly also get them some college credits and/or allow them to place out of some general ed requirements.

 

So, I'll plan on several AP courses for each child.

[raceNzanesmom]

I want the proper credit given for what is done. And our state has ranking for scholarships that is based on GPA, without the weighted honors courses there is no chance of getting some scholarships.

 

This was us. I wanted his GPA to reflect the same as others in public/private schools for similar work. I wish it wasn't that way. But it is. I didn't want to reduce possible opportunities simply because I wish it was different. Wishing won't pay for college. .02

 

ETA: We did AP, not Honors. I have his AP results with his transcript.

[justasque]

I teach writing classes and was going to go through the process of getting my course AP approved..mainly to alert the families signing up that this is rigorous...some students would not do well in this class. I opted to call it Honors, and in that I mean that it will require more hours of work a week than your standard class...

 

 

This coming year, I'm teaching a class I'm calling "Honors Algebra". It's, as the pp said, mainly to indicate that it will involve significant work time, will move quickly, and will go into depth. Some folks are looking for that; for others it wouldn't be a good fit. We're starting with several students I've had for a while, so I have a good sense of what they can do.

[8filltheheart]

Thinking out loud, no more than that.

 

Why do so many homeschoolers want to replicate "honors" and/or "AP" courses for their high school students?

 

I don't believe it is wrong to do so !

 

I try to teaching rock-solid courses in all subjects. I don't feel any compulsion to label them "honors" or "AP". Some of my coursework probably has qualified as such, over the years, but I don't worry about it. High quality provided for my children is my aim.

 

If respondents don't mind sharing honest introspection, is this trend followed because of competition for college admission, or because of a deeply-buried insecurity of how homeschooling coursework stacks up -- (in the eyes of the sometimes hostile non-homeschooling world) -- against that of "outside schools"?

 

Similar possibility, perhaps, is it that homeschoolers are imitating outside schools, where AP classes have proliferated like healthy rabbits?

 

Not a trace of anti-intellectualism among my family, as dh and my education proves. I'm not coming from that angle.

 

I'm just interested and very curious.

 

I have not and will not label any of our courses honors. I will give the AP designation for the PAH courses they have taken, but I won't give it a weighted grade. Unlike previous posters, I have been told to submit unweighted GPAs and that admissions offices create their own weight/unweighted system and that they regularly unweight weighted GPAs.

 

FWIW, I think every course that my kids take w/the exception of a very few are actually tougher than "honors."

 

As to why, b/c they are capable of it. B/c they would be bored w/o the challenge. B/c they have high expectations of themselves. B/c they have high goals. B/c they ask for it (my 15 yos especially.) B/c they want to be competitive for scholarships/admissions at top schools.

 

My personal educational philosophy is that each child needs to work at their highest level. With some of my kids that bar is really high. With some of my kids that bar is at a more avg level. But even with my avg kids, their workload is heavy, just at a lower level.

[Teachin'Mine]

I have not and will not label any of our courses honors. I will give the AP designation for the PAH courses they have taken, but I won't give it a weighted grade. Unlike previous posters, I have been told to submit unweighted GPAs and that admissions offices create their own weight/unweighted system and that they regularly unweight weighted GPAs.

 

FWIW, I think every course that my kids take w/the exception of a very few are actually tougher than "honors."

 

As to why, b/c they are capable of it. B/c they would be bored w/o the challenge. B/c they have high expectations of themselves. B/c they have high goals. B/c they ask for it (my 15 yos especially.) B/c they want to be competitive for scholarships/admissions at top schools.

 

My personal educational philosophy is that each child needs to work at their highest level. With some of my kids that bar is really high. With some of my kids that bar is at a more avg level. But even with my avg kids, their workload is heavy, just at a lower level.

 

 

Yes, but they can only decide what "value" to give a class based on how it's listed on the transcript. Classes for which the student has taken an AP test are obviously at that level, but others would be considered to be regular classes unless the word honors was used. I can't imagine that admissions, with thousands of applications to filter through, would take the time to read each and every course description to determine whether it's a regular or honors course. Or am I wrong?

 

Does anyone know if CC classes are weighted? Are they given .5 extra, like an honors course, or based on a 5.0 scale like the AP classes?

[mom31257]

This is a topic that really frustrates me. We didn't have those classes at my high school, but that was in the day when not all kids were required to do 4 science, 4 math, 2 foreign language, etc. Kids were actually allowed to decide if they wanted to prepare for college or not.

 

I believe those classes today are what were our college-prep classes then. I had some very, very good classes in my high school in my college prep-track. I think it's just been a way to "dumb down" those hard classes by making them the regular ones, yet kids are still getting the credit requirements for "college-prep". Those kids are the ones who get to college and have to take tons of remedial classes because they really shouldn't be there to start with. They should probably have been in vocational training. The colleges get even more money because they have to stay in school longer. (That's another issue!)

 

Sorry for the rant. I'm just a little fed up with the system right now! It probably doesn't help that my dh is a public school teacher.

[Jane in NC]

Yes' date=' but they can only decide what "value" to give a class based on how it's listed on the transcript. Classes for which the student has taken an AP test are obviously at that level, but others would be considered to be regular classes unless the word honors was used. I can't imagine that admissions, with thousands of applications to filter through, would take the time to read each and every course description to determine whether it's a regular or honors course. Or am I wrong?

 

Does anyone know if CC classes are weighted? Are they given .5 extra, like an honors course, or based on a 5.0 scale like the AP classes?[/quote']

 

The weights you list are arbitrary. As previously noted, many college admissions offices discard all weights since there are no universal standards.

 

I avoided the honors label on my son's transcript. To me the label suggests that a school offers two sorts of courses, something "regular" and something with more demanding content. My homeschool only offered the latter. This was clear from the course descriptions as well as the document which described the educational philosophy of our home school.

[8filltheheart]

Yes' date=' but they can only decide what "value" to give a class based on how it's listed on the transcript. Classes for which the student has taken an AP test are obviously at that level, but others would be considered to be regular classes unless the word honors was used. I can't imagine that admissions, with thousands of applications to filter through, would take the time to read each and every course description to determine whether it's a regular or honors course. Or am I wrong?

 

Does anyone know if CC classes are weighted? Are they given .5 extra, like an honors course, or based on a 5.0 scale like the AP classes?[/quote']

 

I do include a column with some identifiers. This column is between the courses and the grades (I group by subject vertically and grade levels go horizontally). I list AoPS, OCW (open courseware), CL (college level), etc. I do include the word Advanced in course titles when it is applicable. With the test scores on the same page, I really don't believe it is an issue at all.

 

Homeschoolers are not going to be evaluated the same way as traditionally schooled students. The GPA is not going to hold the same value regardless of whether the course is entitled "honors." I do not believe that not listing a course as honors and weighting is going to impact admissions in the slightest. The overall picture is going to be what matters. I think, for example, if a student has multivariable calculus listed on their transcript as a high school student, the word honors is completely irrelevant. I would think that w/o verifying test scores, the admissions office would probably unweight them anyway.

 

FWIW, I'm pretty sure that when Kathy in Richmond has described her kids' transcripts that she has discussed them being unweighted. If I am correct, it certainly didn't impact their acceptances or scholarship offers since they were both accepted at several top-tier schools with essentially full-ride scholarships.

 

I think that interviews, essays, course descriptions, etc. are going to be more important.

 

FWIW, I am even planning on giving P/F grades for French b/c I don't believe I can honestly evaluate it completely. I did it on my rising sr's transcript for the classical college that just accepted her as a freshman (though we are counting it as her sr yr.) I simply explained that she had above avg mastery in the written/grammar portion of the French program, but since I am not fluent in French, I cannot evaluate her speech. It wasn't a problem.

Edited July 31, 2011 by 8FillTheHeart

[lakerks]

Haven't read the other responses yet, but my first thought is that it has to do with being competitive for college admissions.

[snowbeltmom]

Homeschoolers are not going to be evaluated the same way as traditionally schooled students. The GPA is not going to hold the same value regardless of whether the course is entitled "honors." I do not believe that not listing a course as honors and weighting is going to impact admissions in the slightest. The overall picture is going to be what matters. I think, for example, if a student has multivariable calculus listed on their transcript as a high school student, the word honors is completely irrelevant. I would think that w/o verifying test scores, the admissions office would probably unweight them anyway.

 

:iagree:

 

I also am not listing any of our classes as "honors." I explain in our school profile that we believe the "honors" designation is only applicable in a traditional school setting when a less rigorous class is also an option.

 

Also, unless a college requests it, I am not assigning "mommy grades." My kids will only have a grade if an outside course is taken. My kids will have AP scores, SAT II's, SAT/ACT scores, etc. to validate their homeschooled educations. In my opinion, standardized test scores carry far more weight than a letter grade; I believe this is true for all students- both traditional and homeschooled.

[lakerks]

As the honors designation is used primarily as a way of tiering classes, it is not applicable in our homeschool setting. While no classes are designated as "Honors", the choice of materials and the quantity of reading required for most courses would merit the label in many schools (see Course Descriptions and Reading List).

 

:iagree:

Great post, Maura in NY.

[Teachin'Mine]

I do include a column with some identifiers. This column is between the courses and the grades (I group by subject vertically and grade levels go horizontally). I list AoPS, OCW (open courseware), CL (college level), etc. I do include the word Advanced in course titles when it is applicable. With the test scores on the same page, I really don't believe it is an issue at all.

 

Homeschoolers are not going to be evaluated the same way as traditionally schooled students. The GPA is not going to hold the same value regardless of whether the course is entitled "honors." I do not believe that not listing a course as honors and weighting is going to impact admissions in the slightest. The overall picture is going to be what matters. I think, for example, if a student has multivariable calculus listed on their transcript as a high school student, the word honors is completely irrelevant. I would think that w/o verifying test scores, the admissions office would probably unweight them anyway.

 

FWIW, I'm pretty sure that when Kathy in Richmond has described her kids' transcripts that she has discussed them being unweighted. If I am correct, it certainly didn't impact their acceptances or scholarship offers since they were both accepted at several top-tier schools with essentially full-ride scholarships.

 

I think that interviews, essays, course descriptions, etc. are going to be more important.

 

FWIW, I am even planning on giving P/F grades for French b/c I don't believe I can honestly evaluate it completely. I did it on my rising sr's transcript for the classical college that just accepted her as a freshman (though we are counting it as her sr yr.) I simply explained that she had above avg mastery in the written/grammar portion of the French program, but since I am not fluent in French, I cannot evaluate her speech. It wasn't a problem.

 

With what I bolded above, you are in essence labeling the courses as higher than a "regular" high school course without using the word "honors". With a transcript like that, which I think is good, if a college wanted to take your unweighted grades and convert them to graded, it would be rather simple. Much easier than having to read through each and every course description.

 

I agree with what you said about homeschool transcripts being given different attention from the usual and test scores and the overall picture counting more than any "mommy" grades. Honest mommy grades are usually validated by standardized test scores.

[Teachin'Mine]

The weights you list are arbitrary. As previously noted, many college admissions offices discard all weights since there are no universal standards.

 

I avoided the honors label on my son's transcript. To me the label suggests that a school offers two sorts of courses, something "regular" and something with more demanding content. My homeschool only offered the latter. This was clear from the course descriptions as well as the document which described the educational philosophy of our home school.

 

 

Yes, many colleges do unweight weighted GPAs, but there are also those who compare weighted scores and will weight unweighted GPAs. I think that adding .5 to an honors course and 1.0 to an AP course is the usual either, that or a lot of high schools also use the same arbitrary grading system.

 

I guess a lot of this depends on the particular college and how much time the admissions personnel give to a particular transcript. My concern is with those who simply numbers crunch to narrow down the field of applications. Maybe that's a wrong assumption on my part.

[Jane in NC]

Yes' date=' many colleges do unweight weighted GPAs, but there are also those who compare weighted scores and will weight unweighted GPAs. I think that adding .5 to an honors course and 1.0 to an AP course is the usual either, that or a lot of high schools also use the same arbitrary grading system.

 

I guess a lot of this depends on the particular college and how much time the admissions personnel give to a particular transcript. My concern is with those who simply numbers crunch to narrow down the field of applications. Maybe that's a wrong assumption on my part.[/quote']

 

My son applied to one state uni as a safety. Admissions there was less interested in things like course descriptions than the school's honors program.

 

LACs were much more interested in the total package. Of course YMMV.

[Teachin'Mine]

My son applied to one state uni as a safety. Admissions there was less interested in things like course descriptions than the school's honors program.

 

LACs were much more interested in the total package. Of course YMMV.

 

That makes sense since the state universities must have an incredible volume of applications to weed through and they probably go for the most time efficient way of comparing. From what I've read here, they're not always the most homeschool friendly. Of course not all states or schools within are the same.

 

Good to know that the LACs took the time to look at everything.

Edited July 31, 2011 by Teachin'Mine

[justasque]

I also am not listing any of our classes as "honors." I explain in our school profile that we believe the "honors" designation is only applicable in a traditional school setting when a less rigorous class is also an option.

 

(To all who said "no honors designation, not just the poster quoted above) But if your child was not capable of working at the honors level, then your homeschool would offer a non-honors class, no?

 

I guess my feeling is that using the same kind of language/designation that a school uses (and I know schools vary) would be the best way to communicate with a system that is used to that language. And the bigger, more bureaucratic the school, the more that would apply. If you want it to be perceived as the equivalent of an honors course, why not designate it as such on the transcript, rather than hide that info in the school and/or course description?

 

I get that an honors class at a private prep school where all the kids go to college may be different than an honors class at a public school where only half go. What I don't get is downplaying the rigor of an hs class rather than highlighting it.

 

Not arguing AT ALL, just trying to understand. And I haven't done college apps with a hsed kid, so thinking theoretically here.