Help for struggling 4th grader

[Suzybearybake]

My 9 year old son is having difficulty reading and it is affecting his homework in general . This is a cross post. The original is on the k-8 board but I don't know how to get it hear without typing it over which would take a long time . It is rather long so please check it out for the expanded version. Has anyone had testing done? Where do you go for this? Do you have to be referred? We have lousy insurance and the school will not test unless he is enrolled. What is the best way to get the ball rolling? Any suggestions or advice?

[Kathy in MD]

I've added you're first post from the k-8 board for others to reference....

 

My 9 year old is falling behind in his reading skills.He reads , spells , and attempts to write at about a 2nd grade level. We are using All About Spelling 2 and it is the only program that has even remotely worked for him. He can do the work in his other subjects if it is read to him, but if I expect him to answer questions in writing, it will not happen. I am afraid of what will happen if he does not catch up. Between all three boys we are schooling from 7 am to 9 pm. My older two are done by 3pm but my youngest doesn't do anything until I am there to walk him through it. If he does try he gets most of them wrong because he did not understand the questions. You can just forget about story problems. We are using BJU Reading and it has helped alot, but just not quite enough. He can read the stories but there are still alot of words that he stumbles over. I think his problem stems from multi syllable words and not knowing where to break them . Although on those type of exercises , he does fine. He knows the rules but has trouble with application. When he comes across unfamiliar words he will mix up letters and through in a few that were not even there originally. I am very concerned but am unsure how to fix the problem. This little one is slower than my other two and I don't want to make him feel stupid. We try to have him read more but if he is doing silent reading I have no way to know if he is getting the words right. It takes us so long just to get through his regular subjects that I don't want to listen to him read at 9 at night. My dh is out of town alot so I am taking care of my boys and my fiw and am quite tuckered myself. I am sorry about the rant but I feel like I am failing him and don't know how to fix it. I have thought about ps but am concerned he would recieve less attention and get lost in the shuffle or made fun of by the other kids. Any suggestions or pearls of wisdom? I wish there was somewhere to go for assistance, but the money isn't there. If you had one who struggled what did you do?

 

 

There are 2 big sensory areas that can interfer with learning to read -- auditory and visual.

 

When an individual can't distiguish indivdiual sounds, it's difficult for him to understand phoenemes, the precurser to phonics, and phonics. It can also make it difficult for the individual to learn to good articulation and participate easily in conversations. Look for a speech therapist to test and treat these problems. Make sure though thatthe STwill treat for items besides diction. My ds had one who "graduated" him because he had beautiful diction. She didn't address any of his far more severe language problems, including the one that caused the diction problems in the first place.

 

There are some programs you can do at home for specific language problems. With more details on what his speech is like, we can possibly recommend some for you to try. However you also mention that he doesn't understand questions when they are written. Does he have problems comprehending general conversation and responding to it? Do you find that he responds with "canned" phrases? That is does he try to respond a handful of basic responses. If so, he may have expressive andreceptive language problems. I know of no home based program for that problem.

 

Developmental vision problems aren't caught in a standard vision exam. A developmental vision exam will last 1.5-3hours. It will include testing for tracking, binocular vision and many other fine control problems. It will also test for stamina (efficiency). Many individuals can maintain eye control for 30 sec or so during a regular eye exam, but their eyes start to tire quickly when actually being used for reading. A dev. vision exam will test for this. You would see a developmental optometrist for an exam. Treatment is therapy and can be done in the office once or twice a week or at home with monthly check-ups. A third option is a computer program that deals with the most common vision problems. When you're looking for a dev opt, ask if they will provide a home program or the computer program if it's appropriate. If you do therapy at home, you will have to be firm and organized to get it accomplished. VT was the one therapy my ds fought.

 

In your post you don't mention anything about hyperactivity, inattention or any behavioral problems. You also didn't mention if he was slow to walk, had poor balance, sensitive to touch and clothing. Many times "non-academic" problems can lead to uncovering very basic physical problems that can impact learning. Because of your insurance problems, I don't want to advise you to get the whole gammit of testing, but with more information we can try to figure outif your ds needs additional screening.

 

As far as insurance is concerned, a dev opt and ST will know how to code the insurance forms to maximize your chances of gaining coverage. One area that most insurance companies specifically exclude is vision care. However if your ds has a common problem, one eye turning out or in, VT is normally covered because the standard treatment is surgery and surgery is more expensive than VT. It also is less effective. You may have to argue with your company a bit if they aren't used to covering VT, but your opt will help you. BTW, the problem with the eyes turning in or out does not need to be obvious. My ds could maintain binocular vision until something was fairly close to his nose.

 

Also check out the following site for vision problems :

http://www.childrensvision.com

[Laurie4b]

Suzy,

 

It sounds like your frustration is caused by trying to teach a child with special needs without really knowing what those issues are.

 

I would recommend that you get the book Overcoming Dyslexia by Sally Shaywitz. It is available in paperback and is widely available in regular bookstores for less than $20. There is a free publication online that is excellent called Put Reading First. Google it. You can also order a free hard copy. Get the one meant for teachers.

 

I would also recommend that you get some evaluations for your son. As Kathy mentioned, there are sometimes other underlying problems. The book, "The Out of Sync Child" is a good one to skim to get an idea if there are sensory issues that are impacting academics. If there are, then an occupational therapy evaluation is in order.

 

A speech-language pathologist can give your child a test to see if there are problems with phonemic awareness, which is by far the most common cause of reading problems. The test is the CTOPP (Comprehensive Test of Phonological Processing.) This will tell you both about phonemic processing issues as well as whether there is also a rapid naming deficit. (The latter makes remediation harder, though not impossible.) A psychologist or neuropsychologist can also do this test. You can get a rough idea of phonemic awareness issues by doing the tests in Reading Reflex.

 

I would actually recommend a full educational or neuropsych evaluation that includes an IQ test. You said that your child seems slow. It would be important to know whether that is because he actually is a slow learner, or whether there are specific disabilities. A slow learner will have scores that are consistently low across all 4 areas of the IQ test. A child with specific learning disabilities will typically have discrepencies between the four areas, and between substests, with some high and others low. Those discrepencies can give a good idea of what the specific issues are. You then have the opportunity to choose teaching strategies that address the deficits, and go with the strengths. (This is far more specific than "learning style" that you so often read about.) The neuropsychologist who did my ds's testing gave us numerous recommendations in these areas. Some do and some don't, so I would shop around.

 

The REWARDS program works well for teaching multisyllabic words, but your child needs to be able to consistently decode regular short vowel words prior to starting it, and should have a 4th grade vocabulary level at a minimum. Your son may need more work before REWARDS will be accessible to him.

 

Finally, I would not recommend teaching your son anything more than reading, spelling, writing, math, and whatever subjects he enjoys until he is remediated. I would keep your instruction to about 15-20 minutes per subject (though you can divide reading into phonemic awareness, repeated oral readings, silent reading, etc, each with a 15-20 min limit.) Math, too, could be divided into 10 minutes of drill on facts, and 20 min. of math problems.

 

The mistake that I see parents on these boards make repeatedly is to search for curriculum recommendations when they have a child with special needs. There are truly few curricula that are going to give your child what he needs "as is" . There are a few that nearly always will help with reading, because they have research-based strategies built in; however, it's still very important that you understand why your son is having difficulty and why particular strategies are likely to help. This will enable you to stay with it when you need to, or to tweak in the right direction when you need to. The reading curricula that consistently have a good track record that are the easiest for parents to implement are: Reading Reflex, ABCDarian (sp?) , and REWARDS. You must combine these with repeated oral readings for fluency development. (The REWARDS includes those to some extent.) If your son is 9 and not reading well yet, it's almost certain that he has a learning disability. It will be a great relief to him to have this diagnosed, and that diagnosis is the thing that is the most likely thing to keep him from becoming convinced that he's stupid.

 

You can see if the public school will do some of the testing and that will save you some money. You would need to write a letter to the principal of the school where he would attend and copy it to the person in charge of exceptional children and state that you suspect your child has a learning disability and that you are requesting an evaluation. It's likely that you would get the IQ test (the most expensive testing), an achievement test, and the CTOPP for free. If he has any issues with handwriting, then they would also likely do a Beery VMI . Then you could pursue supplemental testing with those already in hand.

[Kathy in MD]

I've copied Suzybearbake's latest post from the K-8 board because it gives additional needed info:

 

"We homeschool year round and just started this year a few weeks ago. He is using Abeka 4 for math. He does well with most operations, but sometimes has to do over because of careless mistakes. He can not figure out story problems at all and forgets how to do to do double digit multiplication. He has trouble converting written numbers to digits if there are a lot of zeros. We switched from Saxon after Saxon 3. He did not have his mutiplication facts down well enough for 5/4.

 

This has been an on going problem. I first noticed it in kindergarden. He did not get phonics. As we worked through third grade, and completed our forth phonics program, I started to wonder if something was wrong or if he was just a late bloomer.By the middle of 3rd grade I started to think that maybe this was not just a maturity issue. Last year, I spoke with the superintentant of our district to see if I could have him tested or get some help. They refused to help without a guarantee of enrollment. They did not want to pay for testing of a non-student. My husband was quite firm on the point that he did not want them to have our information. He wanted to just keep working with him and give it another year.

 

We used Veritas Press Phonics Museum . The workbook was great, but the books were impossible to get through. We switched to Bob Books and he did better. Alpha Phonics, Explode the Code, Turbo Reader kept us busy for 2nd and 3rd grade.

 

Spelling Workout was a bust after the first book. He was confused the second we went from short vowels to to digraph blends. We switched to All About Spelling and it seems to be working. At least , he does not feel like he failed every week.

 

For writing we tried Writing Strands 2. He was unable to write without me there to write every word. I was hoping if he matured we could try again. I was hoping to start IEW this year with him. Dication and narration were very difficult for him . I would have to write it out for him to copy.

 

All of the books he uses are 4th grade level. We use Abeka for language , science, health, and math. We use BJU for history and reading and are attempting Kay Arthur's Discover for Yourself Bible Study for Kids. Bible is difficult for him. He has trouble finding the answers right in front of him.

 

His handwriting is very slow and tedious. I would not call it horrible for a 4th grade boy but it is slow enough to make progress difficult. He is easily distracted and a bit of a dreamer. He can sit for hours and do nothing. 6 hours to complete a math sheet that he knows how to do."

[Ottakee]

I agree that testing should be a priority. If you can't or don't want to use the public school, then I would strongly suggest looking at private testing. Contact your local homeschool group as there might be someone that is very homeschool friendly in your area.

 

As someone else said, it is important to figure out if he is a slow learner, has some LDs, other complicating issues (vision, hearing, ADD), etc. Once you KNOW what is going on you can have a better sense of direction.

 

If he is only reading and writing at a 2nd grade level I would not put him in 4th grade materials. He needs to be working at his level. I also agree with only having him work on a subject for 20 minutes or so a day, not hours on end.

 

For reading I REALLY like the I See Sam books http://www.iseesam.com or http://www.roadstoeverywhere.com/3RsPlusRead.html They can bring him up to a mid 3rd grade level. For reading drills and spelling I really like Apples and Pears Spelling and Dancing Bears reading http://www.soundfoundationsbooks.co.uk/

 

For other subjects, my girls with special needs are doing very well with ACE Paces http://www.aceministries.com There are 12 paces (little workbooks) per year per subject. They are very carefully sequenced and the child must master one concept before moving on. There are placement tests as well to make sure he is placed at the proper learning level.

[Laurie4b]

You are also describing a lot of things that could be the kind of ADHD that doesn't have hyperactivity, but does cause difficulty with attention. (They keep changing the nomenclature and I can't remember what the new name is. It used to be ADD) That can be evaluated by a physician and insurance should pay for it. There are some drug-free treatments (mostly stuff developed by OT's. Also sensory processing issues are likely to be part of the mix as well if he is ADD or showing similar symptoms.) There are other things which can cause similar symptoms, which is why an eval is key. The thing it is NOT given all that you've described is laziness /misbehavior on your child's part. (Though he may resist more because everything is so hard and he feels hopeless and helpless about changing. And he is helpless without the right help. It is not at all uncommon for kids with LD's to act as if they are not trying when they have really tried harder than your other kids. The results just don't show it. )

 

Given his attention issues, until you find the help that will enable him to pay attention on his own, you'll have to be his "executive function" for him. Give him short assignments. Sit with him while he does them, and just call his attention back when he gets off task.

 

Given the scope of the things you describe here, you are probably looking at a combination of issues (ADD or other neurological issues with similar symptoms plus LD's) . Knowing that he probably really does have issues and that getting evals is the best way to determine what those issues are, would that change your and dh's take on the $$ issue? For instance, I might truthfully say, "We don't have money for x" but if I later found out that it was something absolutely critical for my child, I might start rethink that and start thinking of asking grandparents for help, getting a temporary parttime job, selling something, etc. that I would not have done if I hadn't thought it was critical. I don't know if I'm explaining that part clearly.

[Suzybearybake]

I have contacted our family doctor about testing . We have an appointment to talk to him next week. I have called the school district and the woman that I need to speak to is never there. Appearently no one else knows anything so I have to wait and speak to her. They did say how ever that he probably would not be able to be tested until next fall. They do not seem overly concerned about it. I called the insurance company to find out if anything is covered and where to go, but I can not seem to get through to an actual person. Meanwhile, no school is taking place here . I am so frustrated I could scream. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:banghead:

 

We are having a difficult time getting anything done right now and our school time runs until 9/10 at night. Today I need to run into town and get grocercies. I am spending so much time hounding people , this day is already shot. I am sorry about ranting. I picked the wrong time of the month to deal with these people.:willy_nilly:

 

Is there any particular curriulum that works better for Dyslexic / Dysgraphic children. Something more hands on that they can retain better without alot of reading /writting on his part? (Making Math Meaningful, Handwriting Without Tears, Easy Grammar, IEW) I heard that TT was good for this type of learner but I can't afford that much for a single subject for one child. What have you used with success? I am trying to get the ball rolling but in the interim I want to do something. I am exhausted and need to find something that is not a source of frustration for us. That he can handle successfully.

 

I just want to thank all of you ladies for your help and wisdom filled input. It really helps to have guidence from people who have been there. I can't tell you how much it has meant to get answers somewhere from people who understand.

[Laurie4b]

You need to WRITE to the school district about testing. They cannot, by law, ignore the written request. They are not bound to do anything by oral request. Plus, it will save you the aggravation!

 

It really sounds like you need to go easy on both you and your son for a bit and get restored before trying to move forward. Here are some suggestions: Really, truly, it's okay to do just 15 min per each of the 3 R's . It's okay for you to write things down for him. It's okay to stop the 3 R's until you've had time to recharge and just do subjects that he likes. For instance, will he listen to audio tapes, watch educational videos, draw, do PE, put together Lego contraptions, play chess, do tangrams, work a jigsaw puzzle, go for a nature hike, cook, build something? Are there any books he LIKES to read? Any of those things is FINE for school! I can tell you right now, close to diddly squat is being done at this time of year in public school! If you do the 3 R's, let him take a heavy work/movement break in between: ride his bike, climb a tree, dig in the vegetable garden, jump on a tramp, etc.

 

Curric that has worked for my most challenging son: Repeated oral readings, Wilson reading, then REWARDS & REWARDS Plus (Science), IEW writing, overteaching for spelling (posted below on this board), Singapore math (it's a workbook, but there isn't too much writing), FLL grammar (it's mostly oral) , HWT for as far as we're going to get with writing, Typing Instructor for keyboarding, SOTW on audio CD for history, Lyrical Life Science audio CD;s, Rosettastone Spanish, science experiments.

[Kathy in MD]

I agree with Laurie, relax for a bit on the academics. Learning can still take place by using videos, books on tapes, read alouds, nature walks, cooking and wood projects.

 

As for curriculum that's worked for my ds is: Sequential Spelling, fluency readings, REWARDS, Sentence Composing for Elementary School (used in 7th grade), history ala WTM (but ds loves history :). Ds also does well with adapting Laurie's spelling method for other memory work. Sentence Composing focuses on imitating and writing interesting, complex sentences. The elemetary level doesn't go into composing a paragraph til the very end. Ds has made huge strides in even casual sentences.

[Pensguys]

We've seen good results with Apples and Pears (so far), ABeCeDarian as well as the I See Sam books. DS like science (anything hands on) and SOTW CDs.