How much time per day (or week) do you have your high schoolers spend on English/Lit?

[gardenschooler]

I've got my schedule down to a fairly simple formula, but when it comes to English/Literature, it can easily become 2-3 hours a day. I just don't see how you can do everything that needs to be done in less than two.

 

I do assign some reading for the evenings, and that helps. But how to condense the rest, without cutting corners?

 

* Literature

* Writing about/Discussing Literature

* Writing skills - instruction in different kinds of writing

* Vocabulary

* Poetry study

* Grammar (I've got this down to about 10-20/min. a day, but it's still there for one more year)

* Writing for other subjects

 

It probably doesn't help that we keep two books going at the same time, or at least two different kinds of studies. We might do a poetry study and a book simultaneously, or a book and a collection of short stories. That's the only way I can keep her interest, though, and not have to make her charge through each book too quickly. It seems easier for her to read two books at the same time (one in the am, one at night), rather than go through one very quickly.

 

Ideas? Comments? Knock in the head?

 

TIA!

[Chris in VA]

I think it DOES take two hours. And I'm ok with that. We read a lot of books, and connect most of them to history, so I feel we are killing two birds with one book! lol

 

Ds is taking a separate writing course, but it's a little piddly essay class from Write at Home, and takes about 20 minutes a week. I don't have him write a lot about his lit. We are still on the beginning stages of that. We are done with grammar--I prefer to do more writing and less dissection at this point. And vocab, for us, comes in the form of looking up words from the literature. I know we could do more with this, but I personally can't stand to interrupt my own reading of a great story in order to look up vocab--I think things like that kill the love of reading. But I agree they are often necessary. Bleh. Taking Latin helped ds with vocab also, and I'd recommend going the roots route anyway.

 

Perhaps you could do slightly less writing, working on high quality instead of quantity, and add in discussion to cover more. I know, sometimes discussion takes longer than just writing out answers! My ideal would be to have a discussion after every few chapters, covering literary elements and asking for examples from the text to illustrate what we discuss, then do an essay-based test (writing coming from there). Adding in maybe two 5-8 page papers a semester (along with a research paper once a year) would enable us to get the deeper writing/editing process down, without too much work.

 

But that's just me!

[percytruffle]

Time wise this sounds about the same as us. There are a couple of things I see that could free up your schedule a bit.

 

I would study poetry instead of longer works, not in addition to them. It makes a nice break that way.Also, some people alternate vocab and grammar exercises so they are not doing both on the same days. I must confess that I have always required both every day.

 

The English component is just that important. But, it is interwoven throughout all the other subjects and the older the student gets the less focus there really is on writing/grammar/vocab study and the more focus there is on application of the skills within the context of all other subjects. Does that make sense?

[Anne/Ankara]

One strategy that I've been using is to break up the type of English work into smaller chunks, and then do them sequentially through the year (not simultaneously). For instance, in Sept you could do grammar for four months each day, possibly finishing a level. Then in Nov you could do two months of serious vocabulary work. In December-February you could concentrate on one research paper. Then possibly March might be a month to work on Shakespeare (this coincides with a Shakespeare Monologue contest). Then end the year with a month of poetry, if you'd like.

 

Throughout the year, there might be ongoing studying of literature with short essays, linked to history time period (WTM list). At night and in general, there would be self-selected fiction, read alouds, maybe some book reviews of titles that really were interesting.

 

Just one idea!

[Michelle in MO]

grammar (we used Abeka, which continues grammar through 10th grade; if I'd started homeschooling after the 2nd edition of TWTM, I would have used R&S and finished grammar in 8th grade); vocabulary (combination of Wordly Wise and VCR series); writing (three writing tutorials this year, coupled with Omnibus essays); and literature (Omnibus also).

[Liza Q]

* Literature

* Writing about/Discussing Literature

* Writing skills - instruction in different kinds of writing

* Vocabulary

* Poetry study

* Grammar (I've got this down to about 10-20/min. a day, but it's still there for one more year)

* Writing for other subjects

Well...we probably spend more than 2 hours a day but it doesn't always seem that way. Most our discussion is done on non-school time - over dinner, in the car, while hanging out - you know. Writing for other subjects I just count as part of the other subject. Like Percytruffle, we do poetry instead of, not at the same time as other books. When they are writing an essay for English (say, on the Aeneid) they will not start a new Lit book till they finish the essay. But they will keep reading some History (say, Plutarch) while they are writing, so they are always reading something.

[Janice in NJ]

(This should have been under the original post. SOMEDAY I'll figure out how to FUNCTION here properly. SORRY! :001_smile:)

 

I've had my son track his hours for this year's work. This is for 9th grade.

 

For his Ancient Literature Credit he has logged 210 hours. I hope to finish up that credit this week; he has to polish up two essays and then we will be done. If you divide that over a 35 week school year (this Week will be Wk 36), that comes out to 6 hours per week or just over 70 minutes per day.

 

For the bulk of his High School Composition credit, he has taken an on-line writing class. I've added in one VCR book and a little over 60% of A Beka's grade 9 grammar worktext. He has logged 287 hours for this credit. That's 8 hours per week or just over 90 minutes per day. His composition class has ended; I've toyed with the notion of making him finish the grammar text, but I probably won't. I'll probably finalize his paperwork for this class toward the end of the week and call it quits. Enough is enough! :001_smile:

 

I hope that helps.

 

Peace,

Janice

 

Enjoy your little people

Enjoy your journey

 

 

Our Literature List:

(Please keep in mind this is a rough draft. I haven't doubled checked any of this so don't think I'm nuts if I've attached the wrong writer to the wrong play. :D)

Reading List

Egyptian Poetry, trans. Foster

Legends of Ancient Egypt, Murray

Epic of Gilgamesh

Mesopotamian Poetry, trans. Foster

Bible - Old Testament (Genesis - Job, Isaiah, Daniel)

Bhagavad-Gita: The Song of God

Analects, Confucius

Aztec & Maya Myths, Taube

The Iliad, Homer

The Odyssy, Homer

Agamemnon, Aeschylus

The Libation Bearers, Aeschylus

The Eumenides, Aeschylus

Medea, Euripides

Oedipus the King, Sophocles

Antigone, Sophocles

Poetics, Aristotle *

Theogony, Hesiod *

The Histories, Herodotus *

The Persians, Aeschylus *

The Peloponnesian War, Thucydides *

Physics, Aristotle *

Metaphysics, Aristotle *

On the Soul, Aristotle *

Nicomachean Ethics, Aristotle *

One the Nature of Things, Lucretius *

On Anger, Seneca *

The Golden Ass, Apuleius *

The Aeneid, Virgil

Bible - New Testament (Matthew, Luke, Acts, Galatians, Ephesians

A Poetry Handbook, Oliver

Words of Delight, Ryken

 

 

 

Materials Used:

 

- The Norton Anthology of Western Literature, Volume 1, 8th Edition, ISBN 0393925722 (Note texts marked above with (*) were used in abridged form as listed in this volume)

- The Norton Anthology of Western Literature Instructor’s Edition, ISBN 0393927466

- How to Read a Book: The Classic Guide to Intelligent Reading, Mortimer Adler and Charles Van Doren, ISBN 0671212095

- Invitation to the Classics, Louis Cowan, ISBN 0801011566

- The Well-Educated Mind, Susan Wise Bauer, ISBN 0393050947

- The Oxford Companion to Classical Literature, 2nd edition Edited by M.C. Howatson, ISBN 0198661215

- Words of Delight: A Literary Introduction to the Bible, Leland Ryken ISBN 0801077699

- A Poetry Handbook, Mary Oliver, ISBN 0156724006

- Ancient Egyptian Literature, John L. Foster, ISBN 0292725272

- Legends of Ancient Egypt, M.A. Murray, ISBN 0486411370

- Gilgamesh, Translated by David Ferry, ISBN 0374523835

- From Distant Days: Myths, Tales, and Poetry of Ancient Mesopotamia, Benjamin R. Foster ISBN 1883053099

- Aztec & Maya Myths, Karl Taube, ISBN: 029278130X

- Analects, Confucius, Translated by Thomas Crofts, ISBN 0486284840

- Bhagavad-Gita: The Song of God, Swami Prabhavananda and Christopher Isherwood, ISBN 0451528441

- The Iliad, Homer, Translated by Robert Fagles, ISBN 0670835102

- The Odyssey, Homer, Translated by Robert Fagles, ISBN 0140268863

- Aeschylus I: Oresteia, Aeschylus; Translated by Richard Lattimore, ISBN 0226307786

- Sophocles I: Oedipus The King, Oedipus at Colonus, Antigone; Translated by David Greene, ISBN 0226307921

- Euripides I: The Medea, Translated by Rex Warner, ISBN 0226307808

- The Aeneid, Virgil, Translated by Robert Fagles, ISBN 0670038032

 

- Iliad of Homer by The Teaching Company

 

 

12 lectures/30 minutes per lecture

 

Taught by Dr. Elizabeth Vandiver of Whitman College

 

 

- Odyssey of Homer by The Teaching Company

 

 

12 lectures/30 minutes per lecture

 

Taught by Dr. Elizabeth Vandiver of Whitman College

 

 

- Great Authors of the Western Literary Tradition, 2nd Edition, by The Teaching Company

 

 

84 lectures/30 minutes per lecture: Lectures 1-24 watched this year

 

Taught by Dr. Elizabeth Vandiver of Whitman College

 

 

 

=============

Books read this year by the student for pleasure: (Note - these were not included in the hours for the Literature Credit; they were truly "free reading.")

 

Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, Mark Twain, ISBN 0520228383

Born Free, Joy Adamson, ISBN 0375714383

Dicey’s Song, Cynthia Voight, ISBN 9780689851315

Ender’s Game, Orson Scott Card, ISBN 0765342294

The Gammage Cup, Carol Kendall, ISBN 9780152024932

The Giver, Lois Lowry, ISBN 9780440237686

Going Solo, Roald Dahl, ISBN 9780141303109

Homecoming, Cynthia Voight, ISBN 9780613450638

Hybrid & Alternate Fuel Vehicles, Jack R. Nerad, ISBN 9781592576357

Most Often Asked Questions & Answers About CB Radios, Hayden Book Co, ISBN 9780810457478

Never Cry Wolf, Farley Mowat, ISBN 0316881791

Pictures of Hollis Woods, Patricia Reilly Giff, ISBN 9780440415787

The Shining Company, Rosemary Sutcliff, ISBN 9780374466169

Silas Marner, George Eliot, ISBN 0451530624

Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, Robert Louis Stevenson, ISBN 9780192805973

Tales of Ancient Egypt, Roger Lancelyn Green, ISBN 9780808501244

Two-Way Radios & Scanners for Dummies, H. Ward Silver, ISBN 9780764595820

Walking Across Egypt, Clyde Edgerton, ISBN 9780345346490

[Michelle in MO]

I was so disappointed at the way lit. turned out for us last year! I should have said "no" to a major project in the fall that waylaid our Omnibus plans!

 

I'm going to print out your post, just for future reference. I would almost think your list would be worth some college credit. Are you thinking of having your student take the AP Lit. test?

[Janice in NJ]

The list of titles that the student should be exposed to are HEAVILY weighted toward more modern English titles (16th - 20th century). The title of the course is AP English Literature. Unfortunately nothing on our list was written by anyone who was remotely English. :001_smile: AND this student has not been exposed to NEARLY enough literature in order to approach that test. But who knows.... his junior or senior year is still many months away. We'll see.

 

Additionally you have to remember that a 14 year old boy worked through this list. He worked hard, and I'm VERY pleased with the progress that he made, but we could only scratch the surface. Someday I hope that he will revisit these works as an adult ... at least a momma can hope, eh?

 

Thanks for the thumbs-up though. I'm in the process of putting together lists and course descriptions along with gathering essays etc to insert into his permanent portfolio. It is nice for him to see how far he has come. I'm one of those mommas who pushes hard and offers up little praise; but I do want to offer him the opportunity to see how much he really has covered and learned. Yes, I really am psyched about how much we actually accomplished. It really was a LOT of work. So I'm tired.... but psyched. :D

 

Peace,

Janice in NJ

 

Enjoy your little people

Enjoy your journey

 

P.S. A side note - as part of his Foundations in Philosophy & Government Course, we worked through Plato's Republic (the work itself and the 24 lecture series by TTC). It was SO hard sometimes; I felt like QUITTING SO many times, but we kept going! We were at a picnic with friends a few weeks ago and the subject of philosophy and government came up. DH mentioned that ds had read The Republic. Ds happened to be walking past the circle, so someone asked him what he thought of it. (This ALWAYS makes me nervous when folks question my kids; I just always feel like *I'm* the one being judged. And SO many times they have responded with an answer that was NOTHING to be psyched about... I digress....) Anyway - this time ds proceeded to state his opinion of the work complete with details from the text to support his thoughts. He capped off his comments, shrugged his shoulders in a "I don't see what the big deal is" kind of way, and headed off toward the buffet table. I almost wet my pants. He got it. I mean he really got SO MUCH more than I thought he did. So - education really does happen. Even when the momma can't SEE it because of the infinite PILE of details! AND trust me! This child has NOT had the best education. I have NOT done everything I should have/could have during his K-8 years. I worked very hard to develop a plan for 9th grade and then we really tried to WORK the plan. Stellar execution? No. I'm psyched to make it even BETTER for 10th grade. But that's the nature of growth; I'm always looking toward the next thing. MAJORLY shrugging off ANY kind of guilt over ANYTHING that happened yesterday. Guilt is just so USELESS!!!! Hope for tomorrow is the ONLY thing that motivates me!:001_smile:

 

SO - just look forward. Keep on keepin' on. Shrug off the past and push on toward your tomorrows!!!!! That's where the fun is! What I CAN be - NOT what I failed to be yesterday, last week, last month, or even last year.

 

Rock on, Momma! ROCK ON!!!!!

[Gwen in VA]

This is so neat hearing what other folks do!

 

Two sub-parts of English that I would consider dropping if I were you -- vocab and grammar. We try REALLY hard to be done with those before high school so we can focus on the literature/writing part of English.

 

Vocab will be worked on naturally through literature study and analysis; grammar is best worked on in high school by reading great literature and working on writing.

 

JMHO!

[Sahamamama]

... I just had to say "Wow" to Janice in New Jersey. We are also in New Jersey, in Ewing (near Trenton). I wish I could drop in on your homeschool for a day!

 

To Gardenschooler, it's just a thought, for what it's worth...

 

When I was in public high school, lo, these many years ago, English class met each day for about 45 minutes, and we had about 1.5-2 hours of homework each night.

 

(5 days x .75) + (5 days x 2) = 13.75 hours per week/5 days = 2.75 hours per day.

 

So, that's just about what it takes, I guess. :001_smile:

[Janice in NJ]

But I can't tell you how many times he would be working on a paragraph that just didn't "sound right" to him. He would get really discouraged. The errors would be SCREAMING at me, but he couldn't see it. What's a momma to do? Trying not to be discouraged that he couldn't see the problem, I would have him attempt to diagram his sentence. Almost every time, the diagram would reveal his mistake, but the exercise of diagramming these "real-life - read: tougher" sentences also revealed plenty of holes in his grammar knowledge. Still. Yes, still.

 

So we spent time on grammar. We still need to. Still. Yup, still.

 

Isn't life grand? It seems that I will ALWAYS have the pleasure of being where I AM rather than where I wish I was! :lol:

 

So I hear you. Ideally we would be done with that. Reality dictates a different path - one where we have to trot right along in order to cover those little loopy side-roads. :D

 

Peace,

Janice in NJ

 

Enjoy your little people

Enjoy your journey

[Janice in NJ]

Oh - and to clarify.... I'm not even SURE if I will leave the titles with the "*" on his final book list. Those titles are covered VERY briefly in the Norton Anthology - only 73 pages of tiny print text. It DID take us a while to get through them as we read them together, and I tend to get LOOOOOOOONG winded - pausing to discuss nearly every notion that pops into my head. But I'm not sure if we'll leave them on the list. EACH of them are such weighty works on their own, and reading them in abridged form and then listing them just doesn't seem quite honest.... and it takes away from the weight of the full works that we DID read.

 

So I'm still not sure how that will work out in the end.

For now that info will just be filed until transcript time. :001_smile:

 

Peace,

Janice

[Laura K (NC)]

nt

[Kelli in TN]

In 9th and 10th lit and writing were taking about 2-3 hours per day. I listened to the pleas of my daughter and reduced that in 11th, as she said she wanted to concentrate more on just writing.

 

She didn't really do THAT much more writing. So in 12th grade she is going back to Mom's Game Plan and the next time a high schooler tells me it is too much lit/writing, I am simply going to stuff cotton in my ears.

[gardenschooler]

Wow. Thanks for all the great responses and ideas, everyone. I can see things a little more clearly now, and see that some of the time we spend may be better alloted to other areas, but the overall time frame is necessary. I kind of knew that, it just seemed like we were going in so many different directions. :)

[Nan in Mass]

We do poetry and Shakespeare mixed in with other great books as a break or to fill in a short bit of time. We don't do grammar; we do Latin instead. And we don't do vocab. I would, but we don't have time; they will just have to get their vocab by reading. If I had a child who didn't read well, we would do vocab and English grammar, because I think that (along with tons of reading) is a way to force a student's reading level up, but mine read ok. We do do writing separately, because mine aren't very good at this. Ideally, I like us to just write for all the subjects in high school, but mine aren't there yet.

-Nan

[gardenschooler]

Well, we do Latin, so maybe I could ease up a little bit on the English grammar. We've gone back to Henle I now (after breaking for the spring to do Cambridge), and we'll finish it in the fall.

 

It's funny, though, with this one. She says Latin is easier than English (as far as grammar is concerned). :001_huh:

[Nan in Mass]

Mine say that, too. That's why I switched to just doing Latin grammar. I can use the Latin grammar to explain anything in English that I need to, I've found.