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Singapore Math- U.S. vs. Standards Edition

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#1 ekennedy

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 01:37 PM

Hello, everyone.

I'm beginning homeschooling in the fall with my oldest son who will be in 1st grade. I'm looking at doing a combination of Saxon and Singapore math. I'm wondering about the two editions of Singapore: U.S. and Standards. What is the difference? Do you have a preference? Does it matter what I pick? I appreciate your help. Thanks!

#2 EKS

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 01:52 PM

I have used both the US and the Standards editions and I strongly prefer the Standards edition. I like that the textbooks have full color for levels 1-6 (instead of just in levels 1 and 2), I like the more systematic review, and I like that it is more in line with a typical US scope and sequence.

#3 hopeallgoeswell

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 01:58 PM

Erin,
Here is a helpful page from Singapore Math: http://www.singapore...y_Math_s/15.htm.

I have not seen the Standards edition. DD has used U.S. edition since 1B and is now on 3A. I looked into changing, but the thing I like about the U.S. edition is it is more mastery-based. (And I don't agree with California Standards.) We won't be changing at all unless there is a big, unforeseen problem. I think both would be a fine choice. Remember to look into what type of standardized testing, etc. is required in your state as that may affect which one you choose.

Hopefully people who have used both will chime in!

#4 EKS

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 02:21 PM

Erin,
Here is a helpful page from Singapore Math: http://www.singapore...y_Math_s/15.htm.

I looked into changing, but the thing I like about the U.S. edition is it is more mastery-based.


The Standards edition is mastery based to the same extent that the US edition is.

#5 Dana

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 02:22 PM

I used the US edition for 1 and switched to Standards for 2 and 3. I'll stay with standards. IMO saying you disagree with CA Standards as a reason for avoiding the texts is a cop out. If you read the Singapore info, the standards edition has everything that the US editions have (although in some different orders) and some additional topics.

The Standards edition has some more review as well.

#6 ekennedy

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 07:59 PM

Thanks for your input. I'm also noticing there are both a "Teacher's Guide" and a "Home Instructor's Guide." What is the difference between these two? Do I need both of them?

#7 Satori

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 08:02 PM

I also suggest the Standards version. As for the two guides, I'd get the Home Instructor's Guide, it's geared for homeschoolers. I find it extremely helpful as it really guides me in how to teach the Singapore method. It's also handy that it schedules the different books together (tells me which textbook and workbook pages to do along with the lesson). In the front it also includes Extra Practice page suggestions. It also has answers which will come in handy in the later years. In the back there's Mental Math problems (although we don't use them that much).

I will venture to say that doing both Singapore and Saxon might be overkill. Just a thought...

Edited by Satori, 29 April 2011 - 08:04 PM.


#8 EKS

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 08:53 PM

Thanks for your input. I'm also noticing there are both a "Teacher's Guide" and a "Home Instructor's Guide." What is the difference between these two? Do I need both of them?


If you're homeschooling, you'll want the HIG.

#9 jennynd

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 08:55 PM


I will venture to say that doing both Singapore and Saxon might be overkill. Just a thought...

:iagree:

I will also agree on Standard edition. u get everything in US plus more and in upper grade u won't miss out the pre-algebra, graph, and probability

#10 5Wizards

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 10:15 PM

IMO saying you disagree with CA Standards as a reason for avoiding the texts is a cop out. If you read the Singapore info, the standards edition has everything that the US editions have (although in some different orders) and some additional topics.


Personally I don't really care what anyone chooses to do as I don't have a vested interest (I'm doing 1A with my 5 year old for the color but will be switching to MM at some point like her sister). I just don't really get why disagreeing with CA standards would be a "cop out?"

Yes, they cover the same materials in different orders, but NOT necessarily in the same GRADES. So there might be material that the US edition covers in 5th, but the standards edition covers in 4th (and the opposite as well). The US edition is taught in the order that achieved high test scores in Singapore, and I'm guessing (could be wrong of course) that they chose the order for some reason or another. The standards edition was changed around to cover things in the grades that CA thinks things should be covered. Is that wrong? Certainly not. However, someone choosing the US edition over standards edition based upon this has a valid point on something that matters to that person. It might not matter to someone else, and that's ok too.

(I personally disagree with the CA standard of introducing negative numbers in 4th grade. I don't think it's age appropriate. Other than that I haven't paid much attention to CA standards.)

#11 Dana

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 10:49 PM

Personally I don't really care what anyone chooses to do as I don't have a vested interest (I'm doing 1A with my 5 year old for the color but will be switching to MM at some point like her sister). I just don't really get why disagreeing with CA standards would be a "cop out?"
.)


My understanding from the Singapore site is that te Standards edition is closer to the 2nd edition of the texts that were being used when the TIMSS studies were initially done. See point 11 here.

I see people dismissing the standards edition for the sole reason that it's CA. I think that's shortsighted.

Edited by Dana, 30 April 2011 - 08:13 AM.
fixed link


#12 joysworld

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 10:55 PM

I used the US edition for 1 and switched to Standards for 2 and 3. I'll stay with standards. IMO saying you disagree with CA Standards as a reason for avoiding the texts is a cop out. If you read the Singapore info, the standards edition has everything that the US editions have (although in some different orders) and some additional topics.

The Standards edition has some more review as well.


I have a question for you:) We are using the US edition for first grade, because it was given to us. I'm wanting to switch to Standard edition when he finishes this up. Did you have any problems switching over?

#13 Dana

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 11:01 PM

I have a question for you:) We are using the US edition for first grade, because it was given to us. I'm wanting to switch to Standard edition when he finishes this up. Did you have any problems switching over?


No problems making the switch :001_smile:

The general recommendation is to switch after a B book rather than in the middle of a level. We did US 1A and 1B, then started 2a standards and have been very pleased. We use the US IP books and it matches up okay... But sometimes we needed book B when we were in A and vice versa.

#14 kalanamak

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 11:08 PM

Hello, everyone.

I'm beginning homeschooling in the fall with my oldest son who will be in 1st grade. I'm looking at doing a combination of Saxon and Singapore math. I'm wondering about the two editions of Singapore: U.S. and Standards. What is the difference? Do you have a preference? Does it matter what I pick? I appreciate your help. Thanks!


For the younger grades I'm sticking to the US Edition. The Standards are thicker and the spine stiffer and my son HATES having to hold a book open. I did get the Standards for EP and just cut out the pages we need (only about a 6th of the topics). For the really sticky topics, I print out more drill from the internet.

As for the guides, many use them, but I don't like them. I spent too much time fussing with them when I needed to be just TEACHING. Early math is not rocket science. There have been several threads recently on this, and I suggest you search, as even old me is getting weary of re-explaining "what we do" for SM over and over.

If you are JUST starting out, and have a non-mathy kid, I'd get the text and workbook and the extra practice, and for the first half (like 1A) the HIG, and see if YOU like and/or use it. When you've got a feel for what you like, you can order more/less for the second half of the year. If your kid amazes you in math, get the workbook, text book and the Intensive Practice, which has some harder puzzles in it. If you are at ease with simple math and teaching, you might consider the Fan Math bar method books rather than the HIG, but it is a bit of buying a cat in a bag, and you will work it out as you go along.

Welcome to SM. I just love it.
Oh, and if you haven't read the Liping Ma book yet, do that NOW. I also learned a lot of nuts and bolts of thinking about math for littles from Arithmetic for Parents by Aharoni. Both books can be found at the singaporemath.com site, those fast-mailing folks in Oregon. HTH.

#15 5Wizards

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 11:36 PM

My understanding from the Singapore site is that te Standards edition is closer to the 2nd edition of the texts that were being used when the TIMSS studies were initially done. See point 11 here.

I see people dismissing the standards edition for the sole reason that it's CA. I think that's shortsighted.


Your link isn't working for me, but I would be interested in seeing it. Here is some info. from Singaporemath.com.

>>On the Primary Mathematics series:
Singapore students who scored top in TIMSS (Trends in International Mathematics and Science Study) 1995, 1999 and 2003 were all using the Primary Mathematics series. We can, therefore, say that the Primary Mathematics series is a time tested and documented math success story. We are therefore pleased to have chosen this series to adapt to Primary Mathematics US Edition. With three TIMSS results, and the support of top math academics in the US, we figure we cannot be very wrong with our choice. More information about the adaptation of Primary Mathematics 3rd edition into Primary Mathematics U.S. edition.<<


http://www.singaporemath.com/Singapore_Math_Story_s/10.htm


Maybe someone trying to make a decision will find this helpful as well. It compares US to Standards as far as when things are introduced (and even if they are introduced at all).
http://www.singaporemath.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/SSUSandSTD2009.pdf


After looking around, perhaps this is the page you are referring to? If so, I can see why you might have come to your conclusion. However, the 3rd edition came out in 1998, and the 3 years scores that are mentioned here are 1995, 1999, and 2003 (so 2 of those years would be using 3rd edition it would seem to me).



http://www.singaporemath.com/FAQ_Primary_Math_s/15.htm#PMUSStory



Is the Standards Edition of Primary Math "dumbed down" compared to the US or third Edition?

No, it is not. It meets the math requirements per grade level for California, and so some topics were added and rearranged, but it maintains the integrity of the Primary Mathematics curriculum. Most of the content is the same as in the US Edition, and thus the third edition of Primary Mathematics, and some content was added in from the second edition of Primary Mathematics. In fact, it is probably in places a bit more challenging than the US edition because of the addition of material from the second edition of Primary Mathematics. This is one series that has not followed the trend of decreasing challenge with each new edition! Some topics were added, which could lead to concern that it is becoming "mile wide and inch deep" but the additions are fairly minimal. Some of the additions were simply made in order to be more explicit on material that was already in the curriculum, or to cover some of the same material at more grade levels. For example, some content that was repeated between grade levels was removed in going from the second edition to the third edition to create a "reduced content" edition. It is now back in the Standards edition, such as a review of equivalent fractions now in 4A, or the connection between division and fractions now in both 4A and 5A.


Again, it doesn't affect me one way or another, but I'd certainly be happy to read anything else you might find. I can understand not liking someone saying they don't like something just because it comes from a specific state, but I think one needs to be careful not to assume that anyone who says they don't like CA standards hasn't researched this and come to that conclusion (instead of just disliking because it's CA...if that made sense...lol). As I said, there's a particular thing I don't like about CA standards, but I live in CA and love it here. :tongue_smilie:



#16 kalanamak

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 11:42 PM

I see people dismissing the standards edition for the sole reason that it's CA. I think that's shortsighted.


Yes, I remember when it came out and there was a long hue and cry over "oh YUCK, CaliFORNia, I'll never get it from there" like it promoted STDs :lol:.
Then there was a big swing TO Standards, and now both sides have their fans. I've tried both and I just like the look and feel of US Edition.

#17 5Wizards

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 11:46 PM

Yes, I remember when it came out and there was a long hue and cry over "oh YUCK, CaliFORNia, I'll never get it from there" like it promoted STDs :lol:.


What?? It doesn't??? :lol:

#18 Dana

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 08:42 AM



After looking around, perhaps this is the page you are referring to? If so, I can see why you might have come to your conclusion. However, the 3rd edition came out in 1998, and the 3 years scores that are mentioned here are 1995, 1999, and 2003 (so 2 of those years would be using 3rd edition it would seem to me).
...

Is the Standards Edition of Primary Math "dumbed down" compared to the US or third Edition?

No, it is not. It meets the math requirements per grade level for California, and so some topics were added and rearranged, but it maintains the integrity of the Primary Mathematics curriculum. Most of the content is the same as in the US Edition, and thus the third edition of Primary Mathematics, and some content was added in from the second edition of Primary Mathematics. In fact, it is probably in places a bit more challenging than the US edition because of the addition of material from the second edition of Primary Mathematics. This is one series that has not followed the trend of decreasing challenge with each new edition! Some topics were added, which could lead to concern that it is becoming "mile wide and inch deep" but the additions are fairly minimal. Some of the additions were simply made in order to be more explicit on material that was already in the curriculum, or to cover some of the same material at more grade levels. For example, some content that was repeated between grade levels was removed in going from the second edition to the third edition to create a "reduced content" edition. It is now back in the Standards edition, such as a review of equivalent fractions now in 4A, or the connection between division and fractions now in both 4A and 5A.


Again, it doesn't affect me one way or another, but I'd certainly be happy to read anything else you might find. I can understand not liking someone saying they don't like something just because it comes from a specific state, but I think one needs to be careful not to assume that anyone who says they don't like CA standards hasn't researched this and come to that conclusion (instead of just disliking because it's CA...if that made sense...lol). As I said, there's a particular thing I don't like about CA standards, but I live in CA and love it here. :tongue_smilie:


I fixed the link & the part you found in bold was exactly what I was referring to. :) (I'm still figuring out how to copy/paste with the iPad.)

Kalanamak's response also goes to what I was saying. There have been times here where people dismiss the Standards edition just because it's CA standards and not for considered reasons. Saying "I don't like the standards because of when they introduce negative numbers" or "I don't like the standards because how the book works with my child" are considered reasons. "I don't like the standards because they're from CA" is IMO a cop out. It's lazy thinking.

I was in grad school (math education) when the TIMSS study came out (back when it was the Third International... rather than Trends in International... ). If you look at Singapore's listings here, their numbers have dropped slightly since the switch to 3rd edition rather than 2nd. I don't think that necessarily means the 2nd edition is better than the 3rd, but it is another interesting point.

I've been teaching math a long time. I've been at the cc since the mid 90s and I see students who have a shaky math background. I want my son to have the basics with a rock solid foundation. I want word problems to be routine for him rather than something he hyperventilates about (and unfortunately I have seen students who will almost go into a panic attack in class when we do a word problem).

I've been impressed with Singapore. The Standards edition had just come out when I started teaching my son, so I started with the US edition. I didn't think it had enough practice (even using IP and CWP). After what I've seen with my students, I'm in the overlearning category. I made the switch to Standards with 2. I need to add in less extra practice (although for some topics we still do additional work), I like the reviews, and I like the extra topics. I'd actually prefer negative numbers earlier and I've worked with my son on them already.

The bar model approach is very strange to me, so this year I've had to work the CWP in advance of my son so I can help him with the set up of the bar models. I can see how it leads into a perfect set up for algebra. The more I work with the Singapore materials, the more impressed I have been with them. I don't think I have had to tell my son, "Well, that's not quite true." I did cover up the shortcut for multiplication with fingers for the 9s in 3A and told my son not to look at it because I want him to be FAST with multiplication.

I think it's great that parents have as many choices of good math programs as they do. I would love to see all children have a solid math foundation and I think there are many ways to get there. A nerve was just hit the other day with me reading the post as "CA, yuck", especially given prior complaints about CA.



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