Does this sound like dyslexia to you...

[Critterfixer]

The more I'm reading about it the more I wonder.

My ds7 (going on 8) is really unable to tell his b from his d. Since he has a 50:50 shot of getting it right, he's right about half the time. He knows that b goes one way and d goes the other. He will literally trace every letter he reads with his finger, and when he does this, he can determine b from d. He typically writes them correctly, he just can't read them correctly. Occasionally he mixes up p and q as well, and g is giving him some trouble.

He practices left and right daily in his Saxon 1. He has to look to his brother to prompt left and right. Now, he has his left and right on the page in front of him, so he could look at his book. Instead, he knows that his brother is "always" right with this skill, and if he just does opposite of his brother, he will get it right too. I've been watching him closely this week and he is just imitating his brother.

He knows that 21 is two tens and one extra. He knows that he should put the two in the tens place. But he often has to ask me if "the two comes first".

Other history: diagnosed as high functioning autism at three. He hates to read or be read to. Narration has been a struggle, although I have been working with him a lot to help him with retention of material. When he reads he can read words without a lot of help *unless it is the b-d thing* but when it comes to a sentence it is literally as if he had not read the word before. He cannot repeat the sentence he just read unless it is five words or less. At age one or two he was treated for a lazy eye with surgery and his vision is evaluated every six months since. He's twenty-twenty and his eyes do not wander, but I don't think this means much if his eye is not communicating properly with his brain.

 

Anyway, am I on the right track here? Or have I been reading too much?

Our insurance is good, I think I can take him wherever he needs to go and to whoever he needs to see.

[wapiti]

On the vision angle, I'd want an evaluation with an optometrist from www.covd.org. They check for different things than the opthamologist. Dyslexia is a much more difficult question to answer. I'd start with vision and go from there.

[Critterfixer]

I hope there is nothing wrong, but he is going on eight, and I would like him evaluated earlier rather than later. Our nearest COVD provider will be about an hour and a half one way, but it's not a bad drive. That could spell trouble however, if he needed therapy more than once a week.

[Dobela]

I hope there is nothing wrong, but he is going on eight, and I would like him evaluated earlier rather than later. Our nearest COVD provider will be about an hour and a half one way, but it's not a bad drive. That could spell trouble however, if he needed therapy more than once a week.

Our VT, and others I have heard about, will try to work with you concerning frequency of appointments. I know for ours there are some that drive 2 hours one way. At first she asked that they come every week for 1 one hour session. After a while they spread out the visits to 2x a month with mots of homework. In the beginning, frequency of visits is very important because lots will be changing in their vision. You may also ask the provider if someone else is closer to you, or if they have a satelitte office nearer.

[Rod Everson]

My ds7 (going on 8) is really unable to tell his b from his d. Since he has a 50:50 shot of getting it right, he's right about half the time.

 

Take a look at Telling b from d on my site. That method worked quickly with every child I worked with, although it works best if he also can be trained to write the b and d correctly.

 

Then do some reading on The Vision Piece and The Diet Piece. You're probably on the right track by starting with the developmental optometrist, but I'd also make sure he's not vitamin D deficient, especially with the autism diagnosis.

 

And good luck.

 

Rod Everson

[Critterfixer]

You're probably on the right track by starting with the developmental optometrist, but I'd also make sure he's not vitamin D deficient, especially with the autism diagnosis.

 

He does not drink much milk, but he spends almost every waking moment that he is not in school outside in the sunshine. I really should have him on more vitamin supplements given that he is a poor eater.

Thanks for the information, Rod.

 

Actually, Rod, we are doing the b/d information that you have on your site. We've been at it for a few weeks now, but he still gets confused when he is reading it. However, he does like the reminder of the mouth shape much better than my asking him, "Are you sure that's a d?"

He usually writes the b and d correctly. I sort of started cursive early with him and his brother, since they both like to write, and maybe that helped.

Edited April 21, 2011 by Critterfixer

[Rod Everson]

I should have mentioned that if he's fighting a significant vision issue, reading b/d could remain difficult. For example, one child I know, following vision therapy, told his mother he could never tell which side of the line the circle was on. He was experiencing enough visual confusion that he couldn't distinguish whether the circle comes first or the line.

 

When you correct him, he then knows it must be the other one, but he might really just be wondering how in the world you can tell so easily.

 

The developmental optometrist visit is always my first recommendation whenever a child is having trouble learning to read. The vitamin D issue might turn out to be important, but I know the vision issue is. Fortunately, there's now so many parents in here that have had a good experience with vision therapy (not all, though) that it isn't as difficult a point to make as it was a few years back.

 

Rod

[Critterfixer]

I know that b/d confusion is pretty common. I can actually remember struggling with it as a child, so it must have troubled me after age six or so, or I probably wouldn't have remembered it.

In reality, it is not the b/d that is as troubling as his persistent problem with misplacing digits in his math. He will actually say the correct number, even as he is writing down the reversal. Then he will look at me, see my face and then give this frustrated little growl and start erasing.

 

One thing that is a little funny, I guess--he can replicate something he has drawn multiple times on the page without any real deviation from his design. Things are always exactly lined up. Patterns repeat almost perfectly. I have not noticed him covering the previously affected eye (the side he had surgery on) unless he is very tired after trying to read. But he will tilt his head with the "good" side down when he draws.

 

I do think that he could benefit from the fish oils--I don't think there are any contraindications to that other than the taste makes it very, very difficult to get him to take it. We have used multivitamins in the past with the fish oil and after the first one, the rest were a no-go. He will try anything, and take a lick and a bite of anything once, twice and even a third time, but the whole thing isn't going down.:001_smile:

[Dobela]

My kids will take the Nordic Naturals brand of fish oil for kids. It has a strawberry overtone. They are also small enough they can choose to chew or swallow.

[PeterPan]

So are you planning on getting the VT evaluation? I'd definitely do that. Yes, the fish oil comes in flavors. It's not a replacement for VT. It just helps with DHA levels to things firing in the brain better and connecting better.

 

Are you doing audio books? I'd start using more audio books with him so he recognizes the words when he tries to read them. Put them on for several hours a day while he plays, etc. So it's not replacing what he's reading. It's just to fill in the background and increase his language exposure. Use chapter books, real books like the Chronicles of Narnia (unabridged), Charlotte's Web, that type thing.

[Critterfixer]

So are you planning on getting the VT evaluation? I'd definitely do that. Yes, the fish oil comes in flavors. It's not a replacement for VT. It just helps with DHA levels to things firing in the brain better and connecting better.

 

 

 

Yes. I think this is a logical first step. We can go from there. Since he has a history of a lazy eye (his aunt has the same problem and his cousin has had VT for a tracking problem with great results) I believe that it may do him some good.

 

Are you doing audio books? I'd start using more audio books with him so he recognizes the words when he tries to read them. Put them on for several hours a day while he plays, etc. So it's not replacing what he's reading. It's just to fill in the background and increase his language exposure. Use chapter books, real books like the Chronicles of Narnia (unabridged), Charlotte's Web, that type thing.

 

No. We have not done audio books for the rather lame reason of not having a proper CD player outside of the vehicle! (I've held off because I'm hoping for better acustics because we all love classical music so much and the machine I did have was awful!) BUT--I'm not sure if he will even stay in the same room with them. He truly dislikes being read to (although I make him "suffer" through it.) I am teaching him how to narrate, or rather, how to pay attention to words. We just finished Pinnochio and he did seem to enjoy that. He has also liked Laura Ingalls Wilder books. He is a huge fan of books with pictures, so anytime I can find a good adaptation of something really good we get it.

 

He also liked The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe. We are reading George MacDonalds The Princess and the Goblin in the day and will finish Farmer Boy for our bedtime reading in the next day or so. I thought I'd start Prince Caspian next.

Still, I wish he could take in more things in an auditory way. I've got the audio book of Mr. Popper's Penguins, which I think he will like since he likes penguins.

[PeterPan]

He dislikes being read to because it pins him down to a location? Or because he doesn't understand it? There is such a thing as auditory processing problems. Does it make a difference if he can move and play while it's on?

 

You can get a cd player at walmart for $20. Nuts, you can get a little mp3 player for about that much these days. If you have an mp3 player (I got my little Shuffle free years ago), you can connect it to old computer speakers and make it play. Yes, you're going in the right direction with the books. Little House is MARVELOUS. My dd used to enjoy the "Your Story Hour" tapes. Anything like that. Just put it on and let him play. Turn it up real loud, so he can rove around and still hear it. If he gets engaged, he might find himself moving his toys to be able to hear. If he doesn't, I'd start asking some questions about his auditory. It's normal to be able to listen to something and enjoy it. I'm a visual person, so I don't REMEMBER things from auditory. However that doesn't stop me from enjoying it, kwim? Granted, I'm showing my perspective here with only one older dc, but that's still what I'd ask. I don't blow anything off as personality anymore.

[Critterfixer]

He dislikes being read to because it pins him down to a location? Or because he doesn't understand it? There is such a thing as auditory processing problems. Does it make a difference if he can move and play while it's on?

 

 

 

He will sit still for hours when he is building something. He runs and plays as much as any boy, but he simply does not like being read to. I tell him that it is time to read, and he does it because he has learned that when I tell him that it has to be, then it has to be. He often likes to pick up another book to look at while he is being read to, and I had to stop this behavior, because he was tuning out the reading.

[PeterPan]

So if he sits and builds while an audiobook is on, would he tune it out? That to me would be significant.

[Dobela]

My son didn't like listening to audio books during the day, but he loved listening to them after he went to bed. I would just go to the library and let him check out anything that appealed to him. At first it was simple stories that took a whole 10 minutes to listen to so we would set the player on repeat so he could listen to it over and over. He gradually began choosing more complex books. Now he loves listening to dramatic versions of the Bible and Adventures in Odyssey at bedtime.

[Critterfixer]

So if he sits and builds while an audiobook is on, would he tune it out? That to me would be significant.

 

I expect that he would, but I have not tried it yet. We listen to Beethoven's Wig CD's in the truck all the time. He likes them. He knows the songs and the order they come in. But he does not sing along with the words as his brother does. While his brother will quote anything he hears in a movie that strikes him as funny, he will not do that. However, he will remember vividly the actual scene in which the line occured. Most of the time his brother will repeat the line and then he will ask me, rhetorically, about the scene in which the line was said.

Narration is worse than pulling teeth. But he is getting better at that now that I sit down and "draw" the narration out with him, showing him the important things to listen for in the story. He can handle a short Aesop's Fable now, but something from SOTW is just painful to have to extract.

His verbal skills are not as good as his brother--but his brother is a chatterbox, too; and often tries to speak for both of them unless I remind him to let his brother answer.:001_smile: I guess this didn't bother me because I knew he was on the spectrum. I might also say that his vocabulary is very consise and to the point, unless he is asking questions. He might ask the same question of me four to six times and get the same answer. Sometimes he will repeat the answer to himself after he asks the question before I can answer him again.:001_huh:

 

My son didn't like listening to audio books during the day, but he loved listening to them after he went to bed.

We read anywhere from one to three chapters of a book before bedtime. He values this time less for the story (that is sort of the unpleasant thing he has to endure) than for a chance to "get the cat spot." We have a large tabby cat with silky fur that he loves to pet, and the cat likes to get up in the bed on top of him at reading time. He loves anything soft and silky so that he can run his fingers through it.

 

I am hoping to get a good CD player for the house soon. I did try several months back because I really wanted to get something with great sound. I made the mistake of attempting to get one at the Best Buy. I'm very sensitive to loud noise myself, and ended up leaving the store, shaking all over from the auditory shelling I took. Our computer was a free gift, and didn't come with sound or speakers, which I also hope to rectify soon.

Edited April 22, 2011 by Critterfixer

[cat]

dyslexia is genetic.... and comes in all variations...... from very mild to profound. I have two boys each at opposite ends..... I had one tested by a psychologist and the other tested for free thru our public school. Neither test really did much for my kids...... neither test clearly said YES it is dyslexia... I got the feeling no one wanted to say for certain and give them a label. I would love to know how to get a test that says he has dyslexia so he can get accommodations once he gets to college. Texas recognizes dyslexia and the schools test for it and then give services accordingly. I use Barton Reading and Spelling, whether or not my son has dyslexia, this program can be used to teach him how to be a great reader.... the program can help all students learn to read well. I have been using it for 3 years now and he has made great progress and he knows how to break words apart and figure out how to pronounce them.

[PeterPan]

People often have computer speakers lying around extra from old computers. You might put out some feelers and see what you find. You might be able to get some for free if you ask. I wouldn't put money into a good cd player anyway, because the technology is changing.

 

What you need for Best Buy is ear plugs. Ours is loud too. Anybody who works in construction or with loud equipment will have them and could give you a pair. They're little cheap foam things. I keep several pairs on me.

 

And no, I don't think what you're describing with the audio books is dyslexia. Did he ever have a neuropsych eval to diagnose the spectrum disorder? That person should have turned up more with how he processes language, etc. I'd go back and look at your findings letter.

[Critterfixer]

Did he ever have a neuropsych eval to diagnose the spectrum disorder? That person should have turned up more with how he processes language, etc. I'd go back and look at your findings letter.

 

He was evaluated at age two at Children's Hospital in Little Rock. I was told that they felt he fit the diagnosis of high-functioning autism. I assume that they felt he has some language delays, but nothing was said or discussed about how he processes language. The group was greatly dismayed that I wanted to homeschool him, and after I said that they did not offer anything else in the way of help, other than an armful of papers mostly detailing how to assist him in public school. Nothing whatsoever about things he might need in the way of a curriculum. They were very concerned about his social life, though.:glare:

I expect it would be a good thing to get him back in for further evaluation now that he is older. But I dread going back if all they are going to tell me is how bad homeschooling is for children.

 

People often have computer speakers lying around extra from old computers. You might put out some feelers and see what you find. You might be able to get some for free if you ask. I wouldn't put money into a good cd player anyway, because the technology is changing.

 

Yes, but I want really good ones.:001_smile: As far as technology goes--up until three years ago--we didn't own a DVD player. Just last year we finally upgraded the computer to satellite internet.

 

What you need for Best Buy is ear plugs. Ours is loud too. Anybody who works in construction or with loud equipment will have them and could give you a pair. They're little cheap foam things. I keep several pairs on me.

 

I use them when I operate the tiller in the garden. I didn't think to take them to Best Buy--my bad. But I'm something of a technophobe, as you can see, and I actually needed help! But the store assistants couldn't hear me talking to them either.

[PeterPan]

Can you search your state or ask on the general board for recs for a new neuropsych to do the evaluation? Doesn't sound like you had a very good experience before.

[Critterfixer]

Can you search your state or ask on the general board for recs for a new neuropsych to do the evaluation? Doesn't sound like you had a very good experience before.

I expect so. I would really prefer a better understanding of how they do the testing. When they tested him last time, one of the things he was supposed to do was to put birthday candles on a cake. He actually managed to do this. I was surprised he was able to do this, because we don't typically put birthday candles on birthday cakes in my family. And because he was only two he had not even had a birthday cake yet. He had cupcakes. And we didn't watch television with them hardly at all at that age. I don't know where he saw candles on cake to know what to do with them.:001_huh: (BTW, now that he's older he quite enjoys cake with candles on it!)

The evaluators were very good, I'm sure; but there was no one on one conversation with a lead member of the team. While I value a teamwork approach I really like to have a single contact person for follow-up questions and such. They did recommend at the time that he come back for further evaluation when he was older. So much has changed with him in that time. He's far more outgoing, he plays with any kid he meets, he's not afraid to talk to anyone; he's now got his little obsessions with fans, windmills and helicopters...

[Critterfixer]

I pulled his Pediatric Developmental Evaluation tonight, which was done when he was three years, nine months of age.

In summary:

Fits DSM-4 diagnostic criteria for Autistic Disorder

Unable to score developmental skills

Overall language skills severely delayed.

Couldn't determine articulation because of "lack of conditioning."

Voice and fluency adequate.

Sensory integration difficulties: tactile, visual, oral-motor, all factory:tongue_smilie: and auditory domains.

Significant withdrawal

 

That was about it.`

The worksheet indicates that they were unable to do a psychological evaluation ( attempted) and his speech/language tests were low. Out of the six tests listed for language evaluation, they scored two.

 

At the time it was recommended that he be placed in a pre-school and go to Language Therapy and OT. At the time both those things were unavailable in our area. I reviewed their recommendations on enhancing language, and it looks as if I more or less did as they recommended and since they did not recommend lots and lots of reading aloud to him, I may have done more than what was listed.

[Dobela]

He was evaluated at age two at Children's Hospital in Little Rock. I was told that they felt he fit the diagnosis of high-functioning autism. I assume that they felt he has some language delays, but nothing was said or discussed about how he processes language. The group was greatly dismayed that I wanted to homeschool him, and after I said that they did not offer anything else in the way of help, other than an armful of papers mostly detailing how to assist him in public school. Nothing whatsoever about things he might need in the way of a curriculum. They were very concerned about his social life, though.:glare:

I expect it would be a good thing to get him back in for further evaluation now that he is older. But I dread going back if all they are going to tell me is how bad homeschooling is for children.

 

 

Great.:glare: We have a new neurologist referral for there for dd4. Which clinic did you use? My experience has been that one clinic may be great, the other awful.

[Critterfixer]

We have a new neurologist referral for there for dd4. Which clinic did you use? My experience has been that one clinic may be great, the other awful.

 

I sent you a PM regarding.:001_smile:

 

I would not say my experience was bad, just not as good as I would have thought it should be. (They misspelled my name, my husbands name and my son's name on the forms multiple times. To me, that shows a lack of attentiveness in a professional sense. I may work only with dogs and cats, but I would consider that I had neglected my patient if I didn't spell their names correctly!)

However, I wouldn't fault any professional with not recommending specifics in the way of teaching for an autistic child. I really think there is so much variation in children overall, that there could not be a one-size-fits-all solution for a child with special needs. I do wish I could have understood better what my son's special needs were at the time, but I'm trying to meet them to the best of my abilities as he changes and grows.

[PeterPan]

You'd fault them if you knew that KarenAnne got a *20 page* report detailing how her dd processes, how it applies to learning, how to teach her. She got specific advice that she has said was invaluable and that she refers to over and over.

[Critterfixer]

Well, yes. That would have been much more useful.

Among the information that was given to me concerning "Teaching Methods" was the advice not to..well, how 'bout a quote?

"Verbal directions-*CAUTION: This is the highest level teaching method. Care should be given not to overwhelm the student by using "language loaded" teaching. Use the minimum amount of language needed."

And "verbal directions should also be accompanied with gestures to help the student understand."

Hmmm..now how on the green earth is a child who has "severely delayed language skills" supposed to get any improvement in his language skills if no one speaks to him in a manner befitting a human being?

 

But, this isn't a rant about what could have been done, but what can and should be done.

 

So---COVD evaluation is in order to make sure his eyes are tracking right.

Follow up with a second evaluation by a neuropsychologist for his autism and get a much better report on his learning strengths and how to help him with his weaker areas, including his auditory retention problems.

In the meantime, we have tracked down an excellent CD player for audiobooks.

He does read individual words well, and everything I have done with him in reading has been strict phonics. I have been using OPTGR which is a bit of a challenge, but I have also considered using the Webster's speller this summer. He actually has decent phonemic awareness (he has learned how to rhyme words this year and we often play rhyming games in the car, and we actually practice our spelling by writing words that he has been reading, breaking the sounds apart, and so forth, although I don't have a spelling program proper. His math, apart from the place confusion is stellar--he "gets" Saxon, and I allow and encourage him to use crayons or other objects to solve a problem for himself. Continue language immersion with our reading...what else while I am waiting for diagnostic testing?

[PeterPan]

If an auditory processing eval is cheaper than the neuropsych, you could do that before the neuropsych too. Or see if the neuropsych will be looking at his auditory processing. Sometimes the neuropsych is this stage manager, sending you to other places but not actually doing it himself. I haven't done the neuropsych eval with my dd yet btw (too $$), so you can take me with a grain of salt.

 

See sometimes when they say language delay, it's code for apraxia. Verbal apraxia is frequently connected to autism. Or it could be they were catching hints of an auditory processing problem. Or BOTH. Either way, to me you got a bunch of vagueness that didn't actually tell you what was going on. I'd do more digging, since clearly those two things are totally different. He could actually have both btw. Just dig a bit more. Look for more answers. Research apraxia and research CAPD/auditory processing disorder.

 

Sounds like you're taking some steps!

[Critterfixer]

Thank you, OhElizabeth. I will be sure to do my homework before I go, this time.:001_smile:

[Guest jenny433]

My kids will take the Nordic Naturals brand of fish oil for kids. It has a strawberry overtone. They are also small enough they can choose to chew or swallow.

So are you planning on getting the VT evaluation? I'd definitely do that. Yes, the fish oil comes in flavors. It's not a replacement for VT. It just helps with DHA levels to things firing in the brain better and connecting better.