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Latin for Children OR First Form Latin?


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#1 trailofsparks

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Posted 20 April 2011 - 11:07 AM

Hello,
I'd appreciate any input here. My ds12 will be in 7th grade in a couple months, when we start our new school year.

I'm regretting that I didn't have my ds begin Latin sooner, but maybe it's not such a bad starting point. A little background: he memorizes easily (nearly photographic memory), is strong in lang arts, has enjoyed the little bit of Latin he has memorized, wants to learn foreign languages.

My concerns are: I don't want to start him in a program that is a time-waster for him - or one that we will have to "move quickly through". I would rather start him in a program that is more challenging and take it slower, iykwim. I don't want to waste time or money. My goal is to have him proficient in Latin and make it through Henle I & II, and probably III (or some other work in translation) by end of high school.

I have NO Latin background, so I won't be much help to him. I don't want to do online classes for this subject. I do want to learn latin myself, but will opt to do that with my younger dc, who I am starting next year as well :D

Thank you for any input. Please ask me questions if you think I should be open to other curricula, and please state why.

Thanks so much,
Cheryl

#2 AmericanMom

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Posted 20 April 2011 - 11:18 AM

If you aren't comfortable with just starting in Henle (there are syllabi available from various sources to plan it out for you), I would recommend First Form. He should be able to get through FF in a year without a lot of trouble, and it is easy to teach if you are learning along with him (that's what I did). My oldest did FF last year and Second Form this year (he is 12 now) and he is moving into Henle in a couple of months (Third Form won't be ready until fall so we decided to go ahead and move to Henle). I think the Forms series (well, the two that are out so far) are great. If Third Form was already out, we'd be using it. But I figured if we have to use Henle for a couple of months as a gap, we might as well move into it now.

#3 trailofsparks

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Posted 20 April 2011 - 11:39 AM

If you aren't comfortable with just starting in Henle (there are syllabi available from various sources to plan it out for you), I would recommend First Form. He should be able to get through FF in a year without a lot of trouble, and it is easy to teach if you are learning along with him (that's what I did). My oldest did FF last year and Second Form this year (he is 12 now) and he is moving into Henle in a couple of months (Third Form won't be ready until fall so we decided to go ahead and move to Henle). I think the Forms series (well, the two that are out so far) are great. If Third Form was already out, we'd be using it. But I figured if we have to use Henle for a couple of months as a gap, we might as well move into it now.


Thank you, AmericanMom! I just spoke with MP about First Form vs. Henle as starting points. The rep advised me, since I have no Latin background, to start at First Form. I was a little panicked about this b/c I feel I am getting a late start on Latin, but she said most families she knows do not get through all of Henle - the translation books. She also said she has a transition guide that bridges the gap from Second Form to Henle. Are you using that? May I ask what your goal is for your ds? How far will he go w/Henle?

Thanks so much for your input. Glad to hear about your experience w/FF and Henle.

#4 wapiti

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Posted 20 April 2011 - 11:59 AM

First Form will probably be fine.

If you want to be more efficient, you could start Henle I along with your ds. It's nothing to be afraid of, honestly!!! If it makes you nervous, you could both do GSWL first, which is a fantastic, easy/gentle, and very brief, introduction to Latin. That's what my dd10 did, and it really, really helped (we did most of the exercises orally). She started Henle a few months ago, and we're getting through it slowly. I'm loosely following a syllabus from MODG. If you did GSWL first, it would take all of two months, tops. But seriously, once you get started with Henle, it's NOT scary.

I've been intrigued by FF, but I've read that there isn't much translation. I like lots and lots of translation, ASAP. I don't see any reason to shy away from it - I think that is how dd and I learn best, by using it. I guess one could do FF and add translation from Henle - I hadn't thought of that before we started Henle.

Also, I believe that even adding in the grammar book, an answer key and syllabi, Henle's still cheaper ;)

#5 Gratia271

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Posted 20 April 2011 - 01:31 PM

I agree with other posts that First Form would be a great starting point for both of you. At the same time, Henle is also doable (and more cost effective) if you want to do it alongside your children. There are numerous aids available.

If you use the Form series, understand there is no significant translation work. I have used First and Second Form with my younger children as well as Henle and Wheelock with my oldest daughter. To truly learn this language (any language) there must be substantial translation work involved. Of course, there are great books out there for this purpose also along with Roman history supplements, many of which I have used with my children with great success. The sources are endless, the ultimate questions being how much you want to invest and what your goals are.

#6 AmericanMom

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Posted 20 April 2011 - 01:32 PM

As far as the bridge from SF to Henle, I have looked at the bridge lessons from SF to Henle, but I think we'll do just as well on our own, just doing the things he needs review on and moving on. He was so well prepared by FF & SF, he doesn't need a lot of review. We will mostly just hit the couple of things that he didn't get in the first 5 units, then on to Unit 6.

May I ask what your goal is for your ds? How far will he go w/Henle?


My goal for him is to finish Henle I next year if possible and then move on to start Henle II sometime in 8th grade. I would like for him to get through all 4 years of Henle and take some kind of subject tests in Latin -- I haven't researched this so I don't know if that would be the national Latin exam or AP tests or SAT subject tests or what.

But if you spent 7th and 8th grade on FF/SF, you could move through the rest of Henle I in 9th grade (that is what it was originally intended for anyway), and do a year of Henle each year of school and finish his senior year, if you want to go that far. I had looked at Henle before starting FF and was very intimidated. But now, having taught FF & SF, I have learned enough to where Henle doesn't seem so hard anymore!

#7 trailofsparks

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Posted 20 April 2011 - 08:50 PM

As far as the bridge from SF to Henle, I have looked at the bridge lessons from SF to Henle, but I think we'll do just as well on our own, just doing the things he needs review on and moving on. He was so well prepared by FF & SF, he doesn't need a lot of review. We will mostly just hit the couple of things that he didn't get in the first 5 units, then on to Unit 6.



My goal for him is to finish Henle I next year if possible and then move on to start Henle II sometime in 8th grade. I would like for him to get through all 4 years of Henle and take some kind of subject tests in Latin -- I haven't researched this so I don't know if that would be the national Latin exam or AP tests or SAT subject tests or what.

But if you spent 7th and 8th grade on FF/SF, you could move through the rest of Henle I in 9th grade (that is what it was originally intended for anyway), and do a year of Henle each year of school and finish his senior year, if you want to go that far. I had looked at Henle before starting FF and was very intimidated. But now, having taught FF & SF, I have learned enough to where Henle doesn't seem so hard anymore!


Thank you so much for your time and encouragement. Yes, Henle seems a little intense. When I spoke with a rep at MP, she said she "doesn't know too many families who finish all (4?) years of Henle - that's a lot of translation". So, I sort of relaxed after that. It seems no matter which one I choose, we'll be fine for finishing Henle I and II, plus a year or even two of translation, which should do the job of making him (us!) proficient users of Latin. Again, many thanks.

#8 trailofsparks

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Posted 20 April 2011 - 08:53 PM

First Form will probably be fine.

If you want to be more efficient, you could start Henle I along with your ds. It's nothing to be afraid of, honestly!!! If it makes you nervous, you could both do GSWL first, which is a fantastic, easy/gentle, and very brief, introduction to Latin. That's what my dd10 did, and it really, really helped (we did most of the exercises orally). She started Henle a few months ago, and we're getting through it slowly. I'm loosely following a syllabus from MODG. If you did GSWL first, it would take all of two months, tops. But seriously, once you get started with Henle, it's NOT scary.

I've been intrigued by FF, but I've read that there isn't much translation. I like lots and lots of translation, ASAP. I don't see any reason to shy away from it - I think that is how dd and I learn best, by using it. I guess one could do FF and add translation from Henle - I hadn't thought of that before we started Henle.

Also, I believe that even adding in the grammar book, an answer key and syllabi, Henle's still cheaper ;)


Thank you for weighing in here. I actually like the idea of adding in translation from Henle. That is a GREAT idea. Dh told me days ago "just buy both - you'll use them both eventually anyway". LOL but what does he know?? :D

#9 trailofsparks

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Posted 20 April 2011 - 08:58 PM

If you use the Form series, understand there is no significant translation work. I have used First and Second Form with my younger children as well as Henle and Wheelock with my oldest daughter. To truly learn this language (any language) there must be substantial translation work involved. Of course, there are great books out there for this purpose also along with Roman history supplements, many of which I have used with my children with great success. The sources are endless, the ultimate questions being how much you want to invest and what your goals are.


Thanks for weighing in here. I know so little about Latin that I wouldn't have known translation is so key. It makes sense though. I think I'm ready to purchase FF w/DVDs so even my youngers will learn something by osmosis :D plus we don't use much in the way of media. I'll also go ahead and get Henle I - to use some of that for translation.

Would you recommend a different, perhaps more fun or interesting to my ds (likes history, mythology, humor)? Or just stick w/Henle I. I understand there's a lot of history/culture packed in - one reason I am drawn to it for ds.

Thank you!

#10 Lizzie in Ma

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 06:34 AM

First Form and Latin Alive are both good middle school texts with dvd helps.
Either would be a good choice.


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