Another scheduling thread: Think I'm going to have to cut something! *gasp!*

[BabyBre]

Dd10 has the oportunity to enroll in our district's gifted program next year for grades 5-8. I'm very strongly leaning toward doing this because she's fairly unchallenged in her regular classroom and our middle school (grades 7-8) is definitely one to avoid if you can.

 

The problem is that she'll start school an hour earlier across town. My poor dc already get up at 6:00 so I refuse to get them up any earlier. That will leave us with an hour max to study what I think we should study. Right now we accomplish everything in my signature in about an hour and 45 minutes. I'm afraid I'm going to have to cut a couple things! :crying:

 

Here's my very hopeful lineup with minimum time spent, loosely in order of priority:

 

Saxon Math (1/2 hour lesson + problem set time, 3+ days/wk)

SonLight History (1/2 hour lesson + writing/project time, 2+ days/wk)

Noeo Science (1/2 hour lesson + writing/experiment time, 2+ days/wk)

First Language Lessons (15-30 minute lesson, 2+ days/wk)

Mindbenders (15-30 minutes, 1+ day/wk)

Latin for Children (15-30 minutes, 1+ days/wk)

Typing (15 minutes, 2 days/wk)

 

It seems it would be simple to just plug things into a schedule where they fit, but it's not happening. That's why I think it's just too ambitious.

 

So, what would you cut, or cut down on? TIA.

[FairProspects]

How is your school district on science? Ours is pretty decent in that subject, so I think I would be tempted to cut Noeo. The other possibility is typing if your kids have a computer/keyboarding class at school. The rest of the subjects look like ones they wouldn't get at school around here (or need serious supplementation, like Math), and so are probably necessary. JMHO.

[Amy loves Bud]

Dd10 has the oportunity to enroll in our district's gifted program next year for grades 5-8. I'm very strongly leaning toward doing this because she's fairly unchallenged in her regular classroom and our middle school (grades 7-8) is definitely one to avoid if you can.

 

The problem is that she'll start school an hour earlier across town. My poor dc already get up at 6:00 so I refuse to get them up any earlier. That will leave us with an hour max to study what I think we should study. Right now we accomplish everything in my signature in about an hour and 45 minutes. I'm afraid I'm going to have to cut a couple things! :crying:

 

Here's my very hopeful lineup with minimum time spent, loosely in order of priority:

 

Saxon Math (1/2 hour lesson + problem set time, 3+ days/wk)

SonLight History (1/2 hour lesson + writing/project time, 2+ days/wk)

Noeo Science (1/2 hour lesson + writing/experiment time, 2+ days/wk)

First Language Lessons (15-30 minute lesson, 2+ days/wk)

Mindbenders (15-30 minutes, 1+ day/wk)

Latin for Children (15-30 minutes, 1+ days/wk)

Typing (15 minutes, 2 days/wk)

 

It seems it would be simple to just plug things into a schedule where they fit, but it's not happening. That's why I think it's just too ambitious.

 

So, what would you cut, or cut down on? TIA.

 

 

 

Here is what I would probably do:

 

Move science or history to a summer only program and spend a little more time on it during the summer. Keep the other one to study during the year.

 

Dump Mindbenders and keep going with Latin. The Latin study will help her understand logic.

 

Dump typing and have her take it in school at some point.

 

Is Saxon math really adding to what she'll be getting in a GT math program? I'm doubtful on this, but you'd have to look at what they do. I think I might let that one go, and use something fun (Life of Fred comes to mind) during the summer to supplement what they are doing in school.

 

I'd definitely keep going with grammar of some sort through middle school, because they don't really seem to teach it at all.

 

Good luck! I hope that the program works well for her!

[BabyBre]

How is your school district on science? Ours is pretty decent in that subject, so I think I would be tempted to cut Noeo. The other possibility is typing if your kids have a computer/keyboarding class at school. The rest of the subjects look like ones they wouldn't get at school around here (or need serious supplementation, like Math), and so are probably necessary. JMHO.

 

Here is what I would probably do:

 

 

Move science or history to a summer only program and spend a little more time on it during the summer. Keep the other one to study during the year.

 

 

Dump Mindbenders and keep going with Latin. The Latin study will help her understand logic.

 

 

Dump typing and have her take it in school at some point.

 

 

Is Saxon math really adding to what she'll be getting in a GT math program? I'm doubtful on this, but you'd have to look at what they do. I think I might let that one go, and use something fun (Life of Fred comes to mind) during the summer to supplement what they are doing in school.

 

I'd definitely keep going with grammar of some sort through middle school, because they don't really seem to teach it at all.

 

 

Good luck! I hope that the program works well for her!

 

 

 

Our district is worst in science. Most of the focus is said to be on math, but it's terrible in math too. I'm actually adding Noeo Science for next year (I'm hopeless)! The kids love it and we all miss it. We used it one year before I felt I had to cut it, and now I'm regretting it. Although it's usually hard for us to be consistent over the summer, doing summer science is something I hadn't really considered.

 

Typing is something our school doesn't have the resources for anymore. It's beyond me why they got rid of their computer lab with about 30 computers in it, in favor of an empty classroom and a cart of about 18 laptops. They weren't good about teaching typing before, and now there's none of it. IMO, there needs to be some of it - just a little. However, the location dd would attend next year does have a lab and has been much better about getting the kids on the computers (even just in the one day per week program dd's in this year!). So dd may not need typing at home next year.

 

Mindbenders (logic/critical thinking) is important to me, because I feel they're actually trained how NOT to be critical thinkers in ps. But dd loves it so much she would probably do it in her spare time, and of course we think critically in everything else we do.

 

 

I am boggled by the amount you are able to get done. Could you scale back a little in an area where they are already strong? What are the kids strongest subjects in PS?

 

 

I'll be going to the parent info night tonight and I'll certainly ask more on this, but it's my belief that the same crappy math curricula are used in the GT program (TERC Investigations in 5th, and Connected Math in 6-8th), and they must somehow extend the concepts. That's one of my big questions. But Saxon Math has always been dc's primary math program as they're ahead of grade level by at least one year, and ps math supplemental. Math is my "thing". If I could only teach one subject at home...I was going to say it would be math, but history is right up there, too!

 

Anyway, dc are very strong in math but that's because we've used a strong program and worked hard at home. We really can't quit now. I do intend to continue teaching them math at home through high school if our ps situation doesn't change.

 

Thanks so much for the input. I'll take a look at science over the summer, Mindbenders here and there, and ask about typing at the meeting tonight. That ought to help!

[aly9712]

I'd hold off on the Mindbenders & Typing.

I imagine she's able to type sometime during the school day and you could easily throw mindberders back in later or on a Saturday morning :)

[LibrarianMom]

You amaze me at what you are accomplishing in the morning.

 

Just because I'm curious, if the kids get up at 6 what time does school start both currently and for the gifted program next year? At what time do your children go to bed? And what time do you get up to get all of this done?

 

I'd love any tips you have on how you are getting all of this done as my kids are bears to get out of bed at 7-ish, often still aren't dressed by 7:45 a.m., and we have got to leave at 8:00 a.m. so we can all get to our respective locations on time.

 

Stressed out working mom trying to squeeze in afterschooling among other extracurricular activities ;)

[Giraffe]

You amaze me at what you are accomplishing in the morning.

 

Just because I'm curious, if the kids get up at 6 what time does school start both currently and for the gifted program next year? At what time do your children go to bed? And what time do you get up to get all of this done?

 

I'd love any tips you have on how you are getting all of this done as my kids are bears to get out of bed at 7-ish, often still aren't dressed by 7:45 a.m., and we have got to leave at 8:00 a.m. so we can all get to our respective locations on time.

 

Stressed out working mom trying to squeeze in afterschooling among other extracurricular activities ;)

 

:bigear::bigear::bigear:

 

I know, I know, DD's only three (almost four), but she's a bear in the mornings, so I'm curious too - how do you do it?!

[HappyCamper]

You should definitely keep math, science and grammar. Latin would be great too. I would focus on getting her typing up to speed now and through the summer. By September, much could be accomplished in typing so you could drop it permanently.

My son's 5th grade teacher has really, really, really focused on getting his entire class up to speed on typing this year. Without taking class time for it. Every student is at 50 words per minute or faster. Some kids are at 80 wpm. The teacher feels that it helps them all become better writers and will help them get their homework done faster. Her program is simple. After doing an introductory typing program (Type to Learn) at home for about 6 weeks (13 minutes every evening), the students have to type a paragraph as fast as they can over and over for 13 minutes. Every weekday night that school is in session. The typing is from a handout about Sam Adams as they are doing American history. Then she tests them on their speed once a month. I know this is probably way too much info, but I found her results so impressive that I plan to use the same approach with my daughter next year.

 

HTHs. Sounds like a terrific decision to move schools for her! Good luck

[Amy loves Bud]

You should definitely keep math, science and grammar. Latin would be great too. I would focus on getting her typing up to speed now and through the summer. By September, much could be accomplished in typing so you could drop it permanently.

My son's 5th grade teacher has really, really, really focused on getting his entire class up to speed on typing this year. Without taking class time for it. Every student is at 50 words per minute or faster. Some kids are at 80 wpm. The teacher feels that it helps them all become better writers and will help them get their homework done faster. Her program is simple. After doing an introductory typing program (Type to Learn) at home for about 6 weeks (13 minutes every evening), the students have to type a paragraph as fast as they can over and over for 13 minutes. Every weekday night that school is in session. The typing is from a handout about Sam Adams as they are doing American history. Then she tests them on their speed once a month. I know this is probably way too much info, but I found her results so impressive that I plan to use the same approach with my daughter next year.

 

HTHs. Sounds like a terrific decision to move schools for her! Good luck

 

Wow, those results are impressive! Thanks for the info.

[BabyBre]

You amaze me at what you are accomplishing in the morning.

 

Just because I'm curious, if the kids get up at 6 what time does school start both currently and for the gifted program next year? At what time do your children go to bed? And what time do you get up to get all of this done?

 

I'd love any tips you have on how you are getting all of this done as my kids are bears to get out of bed at 7-ish, often still aren't dressed by 7:45 a.m., and we have got to leave at 8:00 a.m. so we can all get to our respective locations on time.

 

Stressed out working mom trying to squeeze in afterschooling among other extracurricular activities ;)

 

 

Ok, well I get up at 5:00. That's a little earlier than necessary because I take about a 1/2 hour to read - just me and my friend, coffee. I get the kids up at 6:00, start breakfast, and they're often still eating when we start lessons at 6:30 so I start with something that only requires them to listen, like history read aloud or latin flashcards. We alternate days: History and Saxon 65 on M/W, grammar and Saxon 4 on T/Th, and history project and latin on Fridays. They complete only about a third of the problem sets in Saxon due to time constraints. Somehow it's all working out.

 

We're done by 8:15 and dc get about 30 minutes of free time. If they got up and ready quick enough before breakfast, they go straight to free time. If not, they have to get ready before the TV or Wii comes on. That's incentive to get out of bed and get moving quickly. Leave for school at 8:45 to get there by 9:00. We're fortunate school starts fairly late and we live very close.

 

We do go to bed very early. At 7:00 we get ready and read from our history read alouds (we're using SonLight), then they independently read (I ask they read at least 1 chapter from their history readers, then they read whatever they want) until lights out at 8:30, latest. This is all in a perfect world. Mornings usually come together better than the evening plan, especially during spring sports.

 

It does sound hyperscheduled, but now it's just our routine. When they were younger, they didn't get up quite so early, but I've gradually moved the wake-up time up over the years to fit more in and as their stamina has increased. They've come to love the bedtime routine and miss it when we've been too busy to read together. The only downside is the early bedtime when the weekends come and we want to visit friends late or something and the kids (and I) get tired pretty early. But we can deal with that.

[BabyBre]

You should definitely keep math, science and grammar. Latin would be great too. I would focus on getting her typing up to speed now and through the summer. By September, much could be accomplished in typing so you could drop it permanently.

My son's 5th grade teacher has really, really, really focused on getting his entire class up to speed on typing this year. Without taking class time for it. Every student is at 50 words per minute or faster. Some kids are at 80 wpm. The teacher feels that it helps them all become better writers and will help them get their homework done faster. Her program is simple. After doing an introductory typing program (Type to Learn) at home for about 6 weeks (13 minutes every evening), the students have to type a paragraph as fast as they can over and over for 13 minutes. Every weekday night that school is in session. The typing is from a handout about Sam Adams as they are doing American history. Then she tests them on their speed once a month. I know this is probably way too much info, but I found her results so impressive that I plan to use the same approach with my daughter next year.

 

HTHs. Sounds like a terrific decision to move schools for her! Good luck

 

 

That's a great idea. Her typing is fairly good, so if she could master the keyboard over the summer, we probably could drop it.

 

Our school was using Type to Learn (or was supposed to be using it), but the teachers were never consistent. Did your teacher send the program home with every student? I'm actually really curious about how she did that, because our school can't seem to bother to get to it.

[BabyBre]

 

I'll be going to the parent info night tonight and I'll certainly ask more on this, but it's my belief that the same crappy math curricula are used in the GT program (TERC Investigations in 5th, and Connected Math in 6-8th), and they must somehow extend the concepts. That's one of my big questions. But Saxon Math has always been dc's primary math program as they're ahead of grade level by at least one year, and ps math supplemental. Math is my "thing". If I could only teach one subject at home...I was going to say it would be math, but history is right up there, too!

 

Anyway, dc are very strong in math but that's because we've used a strong program and worked hard at home. We really can't quit now. I do intend to continue teaching them math at home through high school if our ps situation doesn't change.

 

Thanks so much for the input. I'll take a look at science over the summer, Mindbenders here and there, and ask about typing at the meeting tonight. That ought to help!

 

 

Thought I'd relate what I learned at the parent night this week. While they do use the same crappy math that the rest of the district uses, they use it ahead of grade level. The program runs from 5th to 8th grade. In 5th grade, they use the 5th grade level of TERC Investigations, same as the regular schools, but teach it alongside the 6th grade level Scott-Foresman, the district's old math program (and much more traditional in content - yay!). In 6th grade, they use Connected Math, same as the regular schools, but they use the "Accelerated 7" level, advanced 7th grade. In 7th, they jump to the district's freshman Holt Algebra book, just adopted and more traditional in content as well, and then Holt Geometry, the sophomore book for 8th grade. So by the time they enter high school, these kids are ready for junior level math.

 

We've always been able to stay one step ahead of the district's fuzzy math by being ahead of grade level. This is important to me because it's enabled them to learn the fuzzy math for what it should be - enrichment, neat little tricks and different ways to see things that complement what they already know. While I would still like to teach math at home to ensure they're getting the proper practice of old school methods, I'm not sure if I'll be able to stay ahead of the fuzzy ones now!

 

It also sounds like the homework load is...well, there will be homework at this school! Dd finishes her current weekly homework in class or in the car in about 15 minutes, so this will be an adjustment and I certainly don't want to burn her out. I may really have to reconsider the "wants" vs. the "needs" of afterschooling.

 

Overall, this school sounds just like what you always hoped and expected school would be like for your kids - where it's actually cool to be smart; the environment is highly academic, leaving little room for the distracting and often toxic social drama that dominates middle schools in our district; music is a huge focus (every child is required to learn an instrument and has the oportunity to play in the school's jazz band); expectations are high and success is celebrated. Sadly, all these things are missing from our current school. I pray she gets in (spots are chosen by lottery if the number of applicants exceeds the number of spots available). I don't understand how this anomoly still exists within our district, nor why parents aren't fighting and clawing each other to get in! Out of 7 parents from our school I've talked to whose kids are eligible, only 2 are applying.

[HappyCamper]

I was out camping this weekend,:001_smile: so my reply re: typing is delayed. My son goes to a ridiculous, over-the-top, spare-no-resources private school, so they are each given a laptop that they use at home and school. The Type to Learn program is on the laptop. I am homeschooling his younger sister for fifth grade next year :lol: and plan on purchasing type-to-learn and duplicating the way my son learned to type. The typing that the students do is from a 6 page section of Jean Fritz' "Why Don't You Get a Horse, Sam Adams" and each paragraph is numbered. They practice different paragraphs throughout the year. You could use could use whatever text you want your daughter to become very familiar with.

 

Since he started at his current school, which like your daughter's new school is for gifted kids, I feel much more comfortable with the curriculum. And he does have more homework. The only extra things he does on school days are practicing piano (50 minutes) and clarinet (15 minutes). his school day is quite long, we leave the house at 6:50 and he gets home around 4 pm. On Saturday mornings, he adds grammar (MCT), Latin, and logic since these are the areas that are seem to be neglected by his school. He also spends loads of extra time on MathWhizz, but just because he really enjoys that program.

 

You are lucky your district provides a gifted program, ours has completely given up on gifted education. They used to test them in 4th grade with the CoGAT (?) and then slot the top third into a separate math class (same curriculum as everyone else). But they cancelled the test and the slotting into a different class because they did not want/cannot pay for the testing any more. We have no options for separate schools with a different culture.

[MBM]

Oy! Algebra in 7th and Geometry in 8th is very advanced. It can be done, but must be done carefully. The school my son attends does this with a group of kids who test in, and I'd say of that group only about 5% can truly handle Geometry in 8th (and I think I'm being generous with that percentage). The mistake is that too many of them memorize but do not understand fully "the why" of what they are learning. The next step after that is floundering and frustration. Mastery is the ultimate goal.

 

If you do go this route, I think it's beneficial to supplement with another program, maybe AoPS or one recommended on the high school board. (Kathy in Richmond has terrific advice.) Begin the summer before. Don't give up on Singapore, either!

 

Btw, my son might apply to a summer math program taught by U of Chicago's director of undergraduate studies in math who was one of the original creators of Everyday Math. However, he left the project early on due to conflicts with others involved in creating it. What a shame. I think that is where things took a turn for the worse. If my son gets in, I might try to talk to the prof about it, but I'm guessing it's a prickly subject. If you read the comments from the following blog, you'll get a better idea as to what happened.

 

The lattice method of multiplication, which is a mainstay of the current incarnation of EM, was originally included as a sidebar type of discussion, not as an alternative algorithm. The sidebar was meant to provide some discussion of why the method worked--something notably missing from the current EM. Jim remarked that he can spot some math problems in the current EM which were part of the original, and it is interesting and disheartening to him to see how the problems are just left as problems with none of the discussion and development that Sally and crew had originally intended.

 

http://oilf.blogspot.com/2010/09/math-problems-of-week-4th-grade.html

 

Anyway, good luck with your kids! Sounds like you've done a fantastic job advocating for them and ensuring a good education.

[LibrarianMom]

Ok, well I get up at 5:00. That's a little earlier than necessary because I take about a 1/2 hour to read - just me and my friend, coffee. I get the kids up at 6:00, start breakfast, and they're often still eating when we start lessons at 6:30 so I start with something that only requires them to listen, like history read aloud or latin flashcards. We alternate days: History and Saxon 65 on M/W, grammar and Saxon 4 on T/Th, and history project and latin on Fridays. They complete only about a third of the problem sets in Saxon due to time constraints. Somehow it's all working out.

 

We're done by 8:15 and dc get about 30 minutes of free time. If they got up and ready quick enough before breakfast, they go straight to free time. If not, they have to get ready before the TV or Wii comes on. That's incentive to get out of bed and get moving quickly. Leave for school at 8:45 to get there by 9:00. We're fortunate school starts fairly late and we live very close.

 

We do go to bed very early. At 7:00 we get ready and read from our history read alouds (we're using SonLight), then they independently read (I ask they read at least 1 chapter from their history readers, then they read whatever they want) until lights out at 8:30, latest. This is all in a perfect world. Mornings usually come together better than the evening plan, especially during spring sports.

 

Wow! Thank you for sharing your schedule. It gives me much to think about as I try to squeeze more into our day.

[BabyBre]

Oy! Algebra in 7th and Geometry in 8th is very advanced. It can be done, but must be done carefully. The school my son attends does this with a group of kids who test in, and I'd say of that group only about 5% can truly handle Geometry in 8th (and I think I'm being generous with that percentage). The mistake is that too many of them memorize but do not understand fully "the why" of what they are learning. The next step after that is floundering and frustration. Mastery is the ultimate goal.

 

If you do go this route, I think it's beneficial to supplement with another program, maybe AoPS or one recommended on the high school board. (Kathy in Richmond has terrific advice.) Begin the summer before. Don't give up on Singapore, either!

 

Btw, my son might apply to a summer math program taught by U of Chicago's director of undergraduate studies in math who was one of the original creators of Everyday Math. However, he left the project early on due to conflicts with others involved in creating it. What a shame. I think that is where things took a turn for the worse. If my son gets in, I might try to talk to the prof about it, but I'm guessing it's a prickly subject. If you read the comments from the following blog, you'll get a better idea as to what happened.

 

 

 

http://oilf.blogspot.com/2010/09/math-problems-of-week-4th-grade.html

 

Anyway, good luck with your kids! Sounds like you've done a fantastic job advocating for them and ensuring a good education.

 

 

Thanks. What an interesting perspective that must be on EM. I'll find time to read that.

[BabyBre]

The only extra things he does on school days are practicing piano (50 minutes) and clarinet (15 minutes). his school day is quite long, we leave the house at 6:50 and he gets home around 4 pm. On Saturday mornings, he adds grammar (MCT), Latin, and logic since these are the areas that are seem to be neglected by his school. He also spends loads of extra time on MathWhizz, but just because he really enjoys that program.

 

You are lucky your district provides a gifted program, ours has completely given up on gifted education. They used to test them in 4th grade with the CoGAT (?) and then slot the top third into a separate math class (same curriculum as everyone else). But they cancelled the test and the slotting into a different class because they did not want/cannot pay for the testing any more. We have no options for separate schools with a different culture.

 

 

That's what I'm afraid of - that her day will be too long and rigorous to afterschool. But without getting up any earlier, we'll still have about an hour in the morning so I'll just have to decide what's critical for her.

 

Our district gives the Raven in 1st grade, the CogAT in 2nd, and has funding for the top 3% to be chosen in 3rd grade for the 1-day a week gifted program. Those kids are then eligible for the full-time gifted program that dd has applied for. It's been around since I was in school, but it truly is an anomoly within this district. That it's still being supported, and was actually expanded to twice it's size in the last few years is dumbfounding to me, given what I know of the district. Nonetheless, I'm thankful!