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Are colleges not accepting Christian published Sciences??


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A fellow homeschooler commented today in regards to her ds. She uses Abeka and said that next year, for 10th, she is going to have to find a different science for him because 'they' (whoever they are) told her that colleges are not accepting Christian-based high school sciences. She is probably referring to Biology, but she didn't say.

 

Is this something I need to really be worried about? I think BJU science is HARD! I can't imagine it not being meaty enough.:confused: And it DOES teach about evolution, just not as fact. I'm kind of worried now. My ds is expecting to go to college...somewhere.

 

Anyone have info on this?

 

(Oh, and can we PLEASE not let this turn into a evolution vs. creation debate? Thanks ;))

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There was a problems a few years ago with a SoCal Christian school and the UCs. They weren't accepting the science courses for that reason. I don't know if it was resolved, but I did notice that when shopping for a private school, most schools had switched to the same books used at our local ps.

 

If I find out more info, I will post.

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Here is one link, although it is 2005. I noticed that a group of Christian schools sued the UCs, but lost in 2008.

 

 

http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/news/factsheets/courseapproval.pdf

 

and court decision here

 

 

http://articles.sfgate.com/2008-08-13/bay-area/17123814_1_high-schools-christian-schools-international-texts

 

 

I'm curious if this is still the standard. Anyone else know?

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Based on the experience of one local homeschooler, yes, some colleges will turn down homeschoolers for using creation-based, young earth-based science texts.

This particular homeschooler was indeed trying to get into a science program. I do not know if she applied to any colleges in the States. She applied in Canada and the UK for sure. I do think she applied in the States too, but I don't know where.

 

As for me, I have a science bound child. I am not taking the risk. We have switched our sciences for high school. I know of others who are also switching. People with kids who are not science bound are not as worried.

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How on earth would the college know what textbook you used -- beyond the official transcript? :confused: In my son's high school transcript, I only use titles for courses (i.e. Integrated Physics & Chemistry, Biology w/lab, Chemistry w/lab, etc.). Are you referring to a college interview where a student produced a portfolio?

Edited by tex-mex
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Here is one link, although it is 2005. I noticed that a group of Christian schools sued the UCs, but lost in 2008.

 

 

http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/news/factsheets/courseapproval.pdf

 

and court decision here

 

 

http://articles.sfgate.com/2008-08-13/bay-area/17123814_1_high-schools-christian-schools-international-texts

 

 

I'm curious if this is still the standard. Anyone else know?

After studying your two links, I came to the conclusion that the private school in question used supplemental books by both BJUP and Abeka -- but it appeared to not be actual textbooks on the science subject? The UC link did state it DOES accept many textbooks by both of those publishers. As a former teacher, I would suspect that particular school did some unorthodox things (i.e. using an anthology instead of assigning the literature UC requires all incoming freshman to have read)? The judge agreed with the findings. I would think that school also had to resolve this matter to keep their ACSI accreditation. I'd be upset at that school if I were a parent.

 

I honestly do not think it is the case that books by BJUP or Abeka are not accepted by colleges or universities. Look at how many THOUSANDS of students in private schools use their textbooks and go to higher education.

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How on earth would the college know what textbook you used -- beyond the official transcript? :confused: In my son's high school transcript, I only use titles for courses (i.e. Integrated Physics & Chemistry, Biology w/lab, Chemistry w/lab, etc.). Are you referring to a college interview where a student produced a portfolio?

 

I honestly have no idea? :confused: I probably should have asked her more questions, but we were both in a hurry. I do know that our umbrella school has us now fill out a form stating materials used for our classes, and a short course outline. I didn't have to do that for elem and jr. high, but starting in hs it is required. BUT, said school also uses Abeka in their small cottage school, so it must not be an issue to them.

 

I just don't want to do anything to hurt my ds's chances at a college, so I thought I should probably at least ask and see if someone is in the 'know'...cuz I'm sure not!:blink:

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In California, if you are a ps or private school, you have to submit course descriptions. One of the required descriptions is the textbook, author, and publishing date.

Gotcha.

 

That is probably how UC discovered the gaffe with the anthology instead of the required literature read as listed in your first link. And the supplemental books for science -- instead of the textbook by the publisher. Huge blunder.

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Wouldn't that be religious discrimination if the student answered differently on his/her views on the subject?

 

Not in Canada. A science question requires a science answer, not a religious one. If you are asked point-blank to describe the evolution of the butterfly for example, it's not a religious question. (I know she was asked a question about butterflies, I just don't know which question).

 

I just don't want to do anything to hurt my ds's chances at a college

 

 

Same for me! Why risk it? I have yet to hear of problems for someone who's *not* going into sciences, but for those who are, better play safe!

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I honestly have no idea? :confused: I probably should have asked her more questions, but we were both in a hurry. I do know that our umbrella school has us now fill out a form stating materials used for our classes, and a short course outline. I didn't have to do that for elem and jr. high, but starting in hs it is required. BUT, said school also uses Abeka in their small cottage school, so it must not be an issue to them.

 

I just don't want to do anything to hurt my ds's chances at a college, so I thought I should probably at least ask and see if someone is in the 'know'...cuz I'm sure not!:blink:

One of the best pieces of advice for prepping homeschoolers for college comes from a gal whom runs a large Yahoo! group for homeschoolers and offers lots of advice on those who are college bound.

 

She would say, "In doubt? Always ASK the college."

 

I would look at the college list of requirements for admission. Use that list against what you are planning for homeschooling. Make changes if needed. Much like those students who sued the UC system in another post... those parents should have studied the admissions policy and realized the coursework would not have been accepted.

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Not in Canada. A science question requires a science answer, not a religious one. If you are asked point-blank to describe the evolution of the butterfly for example, it's not a religious question. (I know she was asked a question about butterflies, I just don't know which question).

 

 

 

 

Same for me! Why risk it? I have yet to hear of problems for someone who's *not* going into sciences, but for those who are, better play safe!

 

So what are my other hs science choices then? I really have no clue when it comes to secular science programs. My older boys used a mixture of Abeka, BJU, and Apologia for hs science...but they didn't want to go straight to a university, they chose the cc route, so I never gave their science classes much thought in regards to college admissions. Are there homeschool friendly secular science courses that are as easy to teach/learn from as are BJU/Abeka/Apologia?

Edited by Melissa in CA
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The university of California for sure has. Some of the reasons given were:

 

In english, they relied exclusively on the anthology and failed to assign a book to be read in full, which is a requirement for college-prep english classes. Additionally, the text allowed only specific interpretations of the literature readings.

 

In history and government, the experts who reviewed them claimed that they contained "many factual and empirical assertions that are not generally accepted among political scientists [or] historians and that are nevertheless not substantiated within the text by evidence."

 

In biology, they stated that "The texts in question are primarily religious texts; science is secondary. . . . Courses that utilize these texts teach students that their conclusions must conform to the Bible, and that scientific material and methods are secondary. Students who [are] taught to discount the scientific process and the scientific conclusions validated by a wealth of scientific research are not being provided with an understanding of scientific principles expected by the UC faculty."

 

Courses that were based on their chemistry and physics texts were usually approved; it is the biology and earth science with which they had issues.

 

If you really want to use one of the science texts you listed, you could also obtain a secular book cheaply (there are usually some recent ones at Goodwill or somesuch), study from both, and list both as texts.

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Or give extra validation to the course with a CLEP, AP, or SatSub or other various means to fill out the educational picture for the course.

I agree. Although check with the college FIRST to see if they will accept a CLEP. Not all colleges will accept CLEPs.

 

However, if it is AP Biology and they pass the AP Biology exam... then of course they have to accept the course. I know of homeschoolers who have used Apologia Biology and passed the AP Biology exam, for example.

Edited by tex-mex
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that stated they think that all homeschoolers (mostly referring to Christians) should have to teach evolution. Okay - we don't believe in evolution but we have studied Darwin and the evolution theory and understand the concept but don't have to believe it. Same with some fossils and dinosaurs are "millions of years old" but that doesn't mean I have to believe it.

 

I think it is good to see all teachings of something - even good literature can have different ways to "study" it. It usually helps us relate to others better.

 

My son is not science bound nor does he want to take advance science beyond what is required. As for my other 2, we are even close to being there yet. We also do not use secular text but we do research as to different studies. Maybe that would be a good solution.

 

I like the comment to get a used book and supplement with it so that you have both a ps book and a book of your choice. :)

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I agree. Although check with the college FIRST to see if they will accept a CLEP. Not all colleges will accept CLEPs.

 

However, if it is AP Biology and they pass the AP Biology exam... then of course they have to accept the course. I know of homeschoolers who have used Apologia Biology and passed the AP Biology exam, for example.

 

Actually, they don't HAVE to accept the course or the AP exam.

 

AP is no different in that regard than CLEP.

 

A college might accept either and even give credit, partial credit, advanced placement without credit or they might only do it if the score is high enough or they might not accept either at all.

 

It all depends on that particular college, the major being sought, and the student.

 

But even if a college (and who knows definitively their college in 9th or 10th grade?:001_huh:) doesn't accept or give any credit for the AP or the CLEP, a respectable score on those exams still says something positive about the level of study the student acquired in those subjects. So I don't base those exams on whether The College will accept it or give credit for it, tho I sure hope they will and many do. To ME those are just awesome intensive final exams for our course that a 3rd party gives and grades, which to some level validates the hard work of learning we put into that course.

 

Just my personal opinion on subject exams in high school.

 

Subject to change at any time due to any experience any one of 9 children might inflict upon me.:D

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Actually, they don't HAVE to accept the course or the AP exam.

 

AP is no different in that regard than CLEP.

 

A college might accept either and even give credit, partial credit, advanced placement without credit or they might only do it if the score is high enough or they might not accept either at all.

 

It all depends on that particular college, the major being sought, and the student.

 

But even if a college (and who knows definitively their college in 9th or 10th grade?:001_huh:) doesn't accept or give any credit for the AP or the CLEP, a respectable score on those exams still says something positive about the level of study the student acquired in those subjects. So I don't base those exams on whether The College will accept it or give credit for it, tho I sure hope they will and many do. To ME those are just awesome intensive final exams for our course that a 3rd party gives and grades, which to some level validates the hard work of learning we put into that course.

 

Just my personal opinion on subject exams in high school.

 

Subject to change at any time due to any experience any one of 9 children might inflict upon me.:D

 

 

When you say a college doesn't have to accept an AP course do you mean they don't have to give you college credit for it? I cannot possibly fathom how a student could take a course, score a 4 or 5 or whatever it is on the AP test and a college refuse to accept it as part of their highschool credit.

 

We haven't gotten that far in the process. Haven't taken a course nor an exam. But it's in the plans. I'd be seriously ticked if my dc didn't get highschool credit for any course if they did decently on the AP exam. I get not giving college credit if that's the way they play. Just wanted to clarify if you were meaning college credit or highschool credit.

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When you say a college doesn't have to accept an AP course do you mean they don't have to give you college credit for it? I cannot possibly fathom how a student could take a course, score a 4 or 5 or whatever it is on the AP test and a college refuse to accept it as part of their highschool credit.

 

We haven't gotten that far in the process. Haven't taken a course nor an exam. But it's in the plans. I'd be seriously ticked if my dc didn't get highschool credit for any course if they did decently on the AP exam. I get not giving college credit if that's the way they play. Just wanted to clarify if you were meaning college credit or highschool credit.

 

Well, UC doesn't have to give high school credit if they do an AP exam. I don't know whether they would or not, but it isn't mentioned in the rules, afaik. I believe they do specifically allow SAT Subject Tests as an alternate for getting credit for college prep high school level though.

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When you say a college doesn't have to accept an AP course do you mean they don't have to give you college credit for it? I cannot possibly fathom how a student could take a course, score a 4 or 5 or whatever it is on the AP test and a college refuse to accept it as part of their highschool credit.

 

We haven't gotten that far in the process. Haven't taken a course nor an exam. But it's in the plans. I'd be seriously ticked if my dc didn't get highschool credit for any course if they did decently on the AP exam. I get not giving college credit if that's the way they play. Just wanted to clarify if you were meaning college credit or highschool credit.

 

I'd be ticked whether the exam was an AP or a CLEP or a SatSub bc ANY of those should reflect the caliber of the high school course and validate it on at least a basic level.

 

But a college does not HAVE to accept any of them or agree with you and I.;)

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So what are my other hs science choices then? I really have no clue when it comes to secular science programs. My older boys used a mixture of Abeka, BJU, and Apologia for hs science...but they didn't want to go straight to a university, they chose the cc route, so I never gave their science classes much thought in regards to college admissions. Are there homeschool friendly secular science courses that are as easy to teach/learn from as are BJU/Abeka/Apologia?

 

I'm not sure how you define "Homeschool friendly," but you might want to investigate texts published by Prentice Hall. I'm using one of their earth science texts this year, and I'm considering the "dragonfly" Biology text (by Miller and Levine) for next year. I also like to incorporate some of the DVD lectures from The Great Courses/Teaching Company. These can be pricey, but they are available through some libraries, and they go on sale frequently.

 

Labs are important. Perhaps you could farm that out if you're not into it. (Jay Wile does do a good job of incorporating meaningful and relevant labs.)

 

I should acknowledge that I used to teach science at a public high school, and I'm sure my opinions and preferences are influenced by that.

 

I am not aware of any texts other than Apologia that are written to the student in that conversational style that Jay Wile uses. Perhaps another poster will address that . . .

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Or give extra validation to the course with a CLEP, AP, or SatSub or other various means to fill out the educational picture for the course.

 

Yes - this is my thought too. Even if they don't accept CLEP or AP for actual credit, it does demonstrate the students proficiency in a subject and would likely not lead to intense questioning of how they learned the subject.

 

It's funny, but this is something I had thought about here and there since we use Apologia. Since we've only done physical science, physics and now chemistry, it really hasn't been a problem. But when we do biology, I think that I will have her read about evolution from another text so she's up to speed on that too. I'd rather introduce her to that in high school and be able to discuss it somewhat than to have her learn it for the first time in college. But actually, with all our science museum trips and all, she's pretty familiar with evolution. For us, it's not such a problem as long as she knows God made it all. How He did that, is a mystery. :)

 

But this article brings up a reason why I'm surprised that we should be compiling a course description list. As was mentioned, if only a transcript is provided, then they wouldn't know that a Christian science text was used. It seems like we'd be giving them more information than what's needed. Public schools don't provide this, or the information on how far into the book they actually covered. :confused:

 

In the end, I think there will always be schools who won't want a particular homeschooled student for one reason or another. Just doesn't seem like this should be the basis of their decision. I can't imagine it takes very long to get up on evolution, and if you're going into the sciences, you probably won't be able to skip any of the basic science classes in college anyway.

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Yes - this is my thought too. Even if they don't accept CLEP or AP for actual credit' date=' it does demonstrate the students proficiency in a subject and would likely not lead to intense questioning of how they learned the subject.

:iagree:

 

 

Public schools don't provide this, or the information on how far into the book they actually covered. :confused:

 

[b']Actually that isn't true. If requested by a university, the public school does have to submit it. They might be jerks and lollygag and grumble about it, but they do have to do it. Most schools aren't asked to, but occasionally smaller, lesser known public or private schools are asked to do it. My dh went to a small public school and they gave his university a book and course list for his computer science classes. Schools could also be required to submit the information for accreditation.[/b]

 

In the end, I think there will always be schools who won't want a particular homeschooled student for one reason or another. Just doesn't seem like this should be the basis of their decision. I can't imagine it takes very long to get up on evolution, and if you're going into the sciences, you probably won't be able to skip any of the basic science classes in college anyway.

 

:iagree: and I don't think it was in the cases sited up thread. It seems more a case of the university finding some small Christian private schools were not giving the type of courses they claimed they were. It seemed far more was lacking than just evolution discussion.

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Thank you for clairfying Martha. I never would have thought that ps would have to submit course descriptions. I guess that most of them have to jump through all the hoops to get their accreditation, so maybe colleges question more those schools which are not accredited, which of course includes all of us homeschoolers.

 

Thank you for pointing out that it was probably more than just the evolution aspect they were questioning. :)

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I'm not sure how you define "Homeschool friendly," but you might want to investigate texts published by Prentice Hall. I'm using one of their earth science texts this year, and I'm considering the "dragonfly" Biology text (by Miller and Levine) for next year. I also like to incorporate some of the DVD lectures from The Great Courses/Teaching Company. These can be pricey, but they are available through some libraries, and they go on sale frequently.

 

Labs are important. Perhaps you could farm that out if you're not into it. (Jay Wile does do a good job of incorporating meaningful and relevant labs.)

 

I should acknowledge that I used to teach science at a public high school, and I'm sure my opinions and preferences are influenced by that.

 

I am not aware of any texts other than Apologia that are written to the student in that conversational style that Jay Wile uses. Perhaps another poster will address that . . .

 

 

I've never used it.... not in high school yet. But, Science Shepherd is written to the student. See this comparison:

 

http://simplycharlottemason.com/planning/scmguide/science/apologia-vs-science-shepherd-biology/

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So, do you think I'm safe using BJU for Physical and Chemistry?

 

Is the consensus that I should perhaps either use something different for Biology, or add a non-Christian based book or video series, like Learning Company, to it? I have zero problem with my ds learning evolution. We don't believe in it, but I'm all about being informed and knowledgeable. I don't just use BJU Science because it's Christian based, I choose it because it's meaty and well done. (sounds like a steak! :lol:) I've, personally, yet to find a meatier homeschool friendly science, but it's possible I am missing great options I am not aware of. :confused:

 

My ds does not seem, at this point, as if he'll be going into any science fields. But, I know things change. My middle son desired to be an engineer since 8th grade, but then began engineering classes in college and decided he hated it because it wasn't hands-on enough and involved too much computer research, etc. which is totally NOT him. So, he is now pursuing a degree in AC/Heating/Ref (not sure of the official name) because he gets to use his brain daily trying to trouble shoot problems with his hands. He's not even out of school yet but already has a job working for a company and making very good money for a 20 yo. So, things change. I know that. Youngest ds wants to go into the Ministry. If he actually goes that route he won't need to worry about the Sciences...but what if he changes his mind??? :blink: I guess I just want to make sure he's prepared.

 

Oh, and I looked into the college he's hoping to attend, The Masters College, and they accept both AP and CLEP. They also only consider the standard SAT or ACT, not the SAT II.

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MY opinion is that you should use what best teaches the subject to your child. If that is BJU, then that is what you should use. If really worried, I'd back it up with one of the previous exams mentioned.

 

So far, MY current plan is to use Apologia bc it is really the only thing I have found that suits my most important needs. It is simply layed out specificly for Hsers and written to the student. It is in my price range. I can get kits for it specificly geared towards being done in a home environment. And the christian prostyltising is less than about 5% of the over all and, so far as I can tell at this point, does not seem to replace actual science information. We will likely take some of the exams mentioned when done with BOTH levels in the subject. (So we will try to take the physics AP after he completes the 2nd physics book.)

 

My oldest is not a science geared kid, so he is using Paradigm. It's okay. It is meeting him where he is at and is what he needs. If he were more interested in science and had more aptitude for it, I would be using Apologia for him as well.

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Oh, and I looked into the college he's hoping to attend, The Masters College, and they accept both AP and CLEP. They also only consider the standard SAT or ACT, not the SAT II.

 

I'd be quite stunned if The Masters College didn't accept credit from a Christian science text.:001_huh:

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MY opinion is that you should use what best teaches the subject to your child.

 

Yep. And don't take homeschooling advice through the telephone game. :D

 

I would go back and ask her who "they" were. This is likely a rumour swirling about because of the California issue.

Edited by angela in ohio
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I'd be quite stunned if The Masters College didn't accept credit from a Christian science text.:001_huh:

 

:lol::lol: Oh, yes, I would too! BUT, I can't prepare only for Masters because there is no guarantee that he'll 1. Get accepted 2. Be able to actually afford to go there. At this point in time he'd either have to get a hefty scholarship, or my dh would have to get a substantial pay raise. ;)

 

So, though that is where he would LIKE to go, I have to prepare him for our local university's as well. We live drive-home-on-the-weekend close to many of them.

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My son is attending a Christian college but was accepted to James Madison U and Christopher Newport U. He used Apologia sciences but none of the schools asked for class or curriculum details.

 

Another homeschooler that graduated with my son applied to state schools as a science major. He was accepted to James Madison U and offered a competitive STEM scholarship, UVA, VATech, VCU, and waitlisted to William and Mary. BTW he graduated at the age of 16. He used Apologia science throughout high school and JMU wanted curriculum info to consider him for the STEM scholarship.

 

So my experience with VA schools is that this is a non-issue.

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My son is attending a Christian college but was accepted to James Madison U and Christopher Newport U. He used Apologia sciences but none of the schools asked for class or curriculum details.

 

Another homeschooler that graduated with my son applied to state schools as a science major. He was accepted to James Madison U and offered a competitive STEM scholarship, UVA, VATech, VCU, and waitlisted to William and Mary. BTW he graduated at the age of 16. He used Apologia science throughout high school and JMU wanted curriculum info to consider him for the STEM scholarship.

 

So my experience with VA schools is that this is a non-issue.

Thank you for sharing that.

 

I was told at a Homeschooling for High School Conference by the HSLDA that it boils down to SAT or ACT scores. They pretty much prove the "Mommy" transcript if you are homeschooling. Add some AP or CLEP exam scores that also show you passed... it is a moot point what textbook you used.

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Yep. And don't take homeschooling advice through the telephone game. :D

 

I would go back and ask her who "they" were. This is likely a rumour swirling about because of the California issue.

 

100% this. She probably heard it from someone else who heard it from someone else blablabla.

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Thank you for sharing that.

 

I was told at a Homeschooling for High School Conference by the HSLDA that it boils down to SAT or ACT scores. They pretty much prove the "Mommy" transcript if you are homeschooling. Add some AP or CLEP exam scores that also show you passed... it is a moot point what textbook you used.

 

I've heard pretty much the exact same things from several colleges. If a homeschooled student has decent ACT or SAT scores they don't worry about "how" the education got there. They'll also look at SAT II, AP (and probably CLEP, but they didn't mention it). Having a cc course or two gives a great chance for Letters of Recommendation.

 

If a student is borderline without much outside confirmation, I imagine they might want to look more closely at other things.

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100% this. She probably heard it from someone else who heard it from someone else blablabla.

 

Well, *I* heard it right from the mom who sent a daughter into biology major with a strictly Apologia background. Now they are indeed a YE family, and some universities were screening for that. As I mentionned previously, they didn't care about which books were used, but rather about how the young lady would answer specific evolution questions

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Well, *I* heard it right from the mom who sent a daughter into biology major with a strictly Apologia background. Now they are indeed a YE family, and some universities were screening for that. As I mentionned previously, they didn't care about which books were used, but rather about how the young lady would answer specific evolution questions

 

Sorry, I was referring to the OP rather than to your followup, and should have been more clear.

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Well, *I* heard it right from the mom who sent a daughter into biology major with a strictly Apologia background. Now they are indeed a YE family, and some universities were screening for that. As I mentionned previously, they didn't care about which books were used, but rather about how the young lady would answer specific evolution questions

 

Arg! What kind of questions do they ask, I wonder. :confused: It seems that there are many different beliefs even about evolution.

 

I suppose I will just not worry about it overmuch. If a certain college will not accept him, then it's not the college for him. And I am definitely going to ask my friend who the 'they' are. :blink:

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Sorry, I was referring to the OP rather than to your followup, and should have been more clear.

 

So was I.

 

If they are screening by asking questions during the interview, it wouldn't seem to matter what text you had used. You are either going to be truthful about what you believe and risk your admission, or you are going to have to lie. I know my dc don't believe YE because of the text they used, nor would they believe evolution if they used a secular text.

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Arg! What kind of questions do they ask, I wonder. :confused: It seems that there are many different beliefs even about evolution.

 

I suppose I will just not worry about it overmuch. If a certain college will not accept him, then it's not the college for him. And I am definitely going to ask my friend who the 'they' are. :blink:

I need to keep this is mind when my dc start looking for colleges. I think it's an excellent point.

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So was I.

 

If they are screening by asking questions during the interview, it wouldn't seem to matter what text you had used. You are either going to be truthful about what you believe and risk your admission, or you are going to have to lie. I know my dc don't believe YE because of the text they used, nor would they believe evolution if they used a secular text.

 

Oh, I agree, but if they are at least conversant in regards to evolution, even if it is not what they personally believe, that would be beneficial wouldn't it? It would show the college that they are well rounded regardless of what curriculum they used. I could see a student truthfully telling what they believe (YE, OE, etc), if asked, but also being able to talk accurately about other beliefs as being a plus.

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So was I.

 

If they are screening by asking questions during the interview, it wouldn't seem to matter what text you had used. You are either going to be truthful about what you believe and risk your admission, or you are going to have to lie. I know my dc don't believe YE because of the text they used, nor would they believe evolution if they used a secular text.

 

Maybe how you explain your answer matters too? For example, if I want to be a biologist and they ask about evolution and I answer that I don't believe in evolution because the Bible says God made the world in 6 days, I can see how that might give them pause. If I answer that I think the theory of evolution has some holes here and here and I think this and this scientific evidence argues for a creationist viewpoint, that might allow me to be true to a creationist viewpoint while still coming across as scientifically capable.

 

(Excuse the vagueness of the example. I am neither a biologist nor a creationist.)

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Well, UC doesn't have to give high school credit if they do an AP exam. I don't know whether they would or not, but it isn't mentioned in the rules, afaik. I believe they do specifically allow SAT Subject Tests as an alternate for getting credit for college prep high school level though.

 

Actually, students *can* fulfill the "a-g" requirements using SAT Subject Tests and/or AP or IB exams (I have a son who may go this route). It's extremely hard to find, but the information is still on the UC website, and is found here -- pp. 7-8 of this long pdf file, "Options for Satisfying UC's "A-G" Subject Requirements for Freshman Applicants Applying for 2011-12."

 

For example, satisfying area "a," History/Social Sciences, can be done via UC-approved courses, OR by scores of 550 and 540 on the SAT Subject tests for U.S History and World History, respectively, OR by scores of 3, 4, or 5 on various AP exams, OR by scores of 5, 6, or 7 on various IB exams, OR by taking transferable college courses and obtaining a grade of C or better ... whew!

 

Anyway, apparently this option is (for the moment) still a viable way to apply to UC. Of course with their fees set to rise (or even double) soon, the UCs are not quite the bargain they used to be ... we'll see!

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California had a court case where they were refusing admission to students from private schools using specific curricula for science, at least for science-related degrees, and this was upheld. I'm guessing that homeschoolers who homeschool through a distance learning program or through a cover school that uses such curricula would have problems. I can't see how they'd know what curriculum you'd used for "Biology 1" unless you told them as a homeschooler, though-it's not like public school transcripts have textbook lists!

 

I do think this is a reason for doing some sort of third party testing, like the SAT subject tests (whatever they're called now) or AP exams, or even a state end of course test (Gateway tests, here) even if it's not required for homeschoolers. If your score is better than 3/4 of the public schooled students who take the test, they can hardly say you're not qualified because the textbook was published by XYZ PDQ!

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Oh, I agree, but if they are at least conversant in regards to evolution, even if it is not what they personally believe, that would be beneficial wouldn't it? It would show the college that they are well rounded regardless of what curriculum they used. I could see a student truthfully telling what they believe (YE, OE, etc), if asked, but also being able to talk accurately about other beliefs as being a plus.

 

Yes, but you can't assume that Christian textbooks don't teach about evolution. :001_smile:

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